Speaking of Instant Cast CC's...

[bravan.3876]

@zoopop.5630 said:no.

Rifle holo after these up coming balance changes wont be as good anymore and people would stop crying about a spec that dies to anyone.

Weird argumentation, that something will not get used anymore because other reasons doesn't make the issue less of an issue (also it is not even proven how good or bad Rifle Holo will be). The moment another rifle Engi build will become good we have the same problem again. I am not saying Engi rifle should have the same treatment as Ranger bow knockback but arguing about something gets used or not as balance argument doesn't make sense. At least it needs a better animation, about longer cast time can be discussed.

[zoopop.5630]

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@"zoopop.5630" said:no.

Rifle holo after these up coming balance changes wont be as good anymore and people would stop crying about a spec that dies to anyone.

The nerfs from the preview are a slap on the wrist for holo. More substantial than the literally year that passed with 0 nerfs or attempts to rein in the spec.

deleting a spec from 1 of the 3 only viable weapons they have isn't going to solve a single thing. Rifle 4 is not over performing let alone "OP" in order for it to get nerf.

[mortrialus.3062]

@zoopop.5630 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@zoopop.5630 said:no.

Rifle holo after these up coming balance changes wont be as good anymore and people would stop crying about a spec that dies to anyone.

The nerfs from the preview are a slap on the wrist for holo. More substantial than the literally year that passed with 0 nerfs or attempts to rein in the spec.

deleting a spec from 1 of the 3 only viable weapons they have isn't going to solve a single thing. Rifle 4 is not over performing let alone "OP" in order for it to get nerf.

Giving rifle 4 a Point Blank Shot style precast isn't going to make Holo or rifle unviable, that's nonsense.

[shadowpass.4236]

@"zoopop.5630" said:deleting a spec from 1 of the 3 only viable weapons they have isn't going to solve a single thing. Rifle 4 is not over performing let alone "OP" in order for it to get nerf.

So adding half a second cast time to an instant cast, long duration, hard CC will delete an entire spec?

Yes or no? Because from my POV, it just sounds like you're being dramatic.

[Eurantien.4632]

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@Eurantien.4632 said:Just remove the reveal, holo has been hurt enough.

Not even close. What weird planet are you from?

Besides their insane 6s stealth which is kinda busted...

their stab is being nerfed and photon wall nerfed... that's what's planet I'm on. I'm gonna CC holos into oblivion.

[Leonidrex.5649]

@Eurantien.4632 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@Eurantien.4632 said:Just remove the reveal, holo has been hurt enough.

Not even close. What weird planet are you from?

Besides their insane 6s stealth which is kinda busted...

their stab is being nerfed and photon wall nerfed... that's what's planet I'm on. I'm gonna CC holos into oblivion.

Now they will have to actually use dodges ;pBefore it was just wall,stab,heal,stealth.

[Stand The Wall.6987]

@bravan.3876 said:snips

most of what you said is true, but none of what you said pertains to rifle 4 being inherently op. its still a fact that its too strong when paired with holo and nothing else. that should tell you something. if it gets a cast time, a lot more people will dodge it. so what should anet do then cuz now its just a self cc. should they flat out change it to a lame knockback? has anyone thought this far ahead or am I the only one? holo stab was nerfed and now elixir stab is getting nerfed. as far as holo goes, what cc do they have besides rifle 4 and stealthed elite? when you take away their insane sustain whats their claim to fame? every class needs big threat skills, if you water all the classes down combat becomes boring and people will quit for more interesting and engaging games. don't get me wrong rifle 4 is very powerful but it needs to be cuz without things like it holo will become a joke. I know somethings off but instead of huge changes lets try shaves first. this is where the old balance team failed.

[bravan.3876]

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:

@bravan.3876 said:snips

most of what you said is true, but none of what you said pertains to rifle 4 being inherently op. its still a fact that its too strong when paired with holo and nothing else. that should tell you something. if it gets a cast time, a lot more people will dodge it. so what should anet do then cuz now its just a self cc. should they flat out change it to a lame knockback? has anyone thought this far ahead or am I the only one?

Nope you are not the only one:

@bravan.3876 said:About Engi rifle knockback i first was the same opinion about it should have more cast time. It is a cc the target cannot dodge or move freely anymore when get hit by it and this kind of cc should not be instant no matter if from range or melee. The only exceptions (aside from Daze what doesn't require a stunbreak to move freely and dodge anyway) are hybrids like Fear and Taunt because they can be removed by stunbreak OR condiremove and for that are less problematic than stun, knockback, knockdown, floating etc. when instant.But the problem is, you also cannot compare Enigs rifle knockback to Rangers bow knockback because Rangers bow knockback does not punish the Ranger like the Rifle knockback does also knockback the Engi himself. If you make rifle knockback too easy to dodge Engi is left with a skill will most likely only cc himself. Means i am not that sure anymore that giving it a longer cast time so it is also dodgeable in close range is a fair move. The animation could get a bit more visible though, even in range it is kind of hard to see sometimes, in particular with all the visual clutter around in teamfights.

That is exactly why i say i am not sure if a treatment like Ranger bow knockback is fair.

Still nothing what is op about a lock down/ hard cc being instant in melee range has anything to do with being core or elite. It is also op on Coreengi, just because Coreengi as a whole build is not viable doesn't make Rifle 4 balanced, it only makes it not a problem/nothing ppl would complain because Coreengi doesn't/didn't get played but Rifle 4 (even when Rifle not used on any build) is still op by itself.

I rly feel like turn around in a circle in this forum. I explained several times why the fact that something never got used before or will not get used in future or that ppl did not complain about something before NEVER EVER is a prove of something not being/ wasn't op before already. Rifle 4 is also op on Coreengi, only Coreengi as a whole being not viable and for that not played doesn't solve the op issue on rifle. It maybe makes it vanish from the surface but it will still exist. You know, also stuff you cannot see can still exist, yes it is not a myth and stuff you might not see can still see you! :scream:

(hard learnt that during playing hide and seek with my parents when i was 3yo and got that only closing my eyes will not make me or them vanish).

[Shao.7236]

How about not touching Engineer and reduce the stupid cleave range from autoattacks on Holosmith? Have some uniformity around with all that auto attack spam that has more chasing potential and less risk overall compared everything in the game.

Photon Forge is a glorified offensive Tool Kit in Tool Belt afterall and honestly given how that scenario is powerful for better utilities. Tool Kit final cleave shouldn't have to be so slow. ¾ is more like it.

[Nix.3152]

@shadowpass.4236 said:Overcharged Shot (rifle 4) on engi does not have a cast time. @Cal Cohen.2358

And Lock On is still a double proc reveal for 12s every 25s that grants 14s of fury and applies 20 stacks of vulnerability.

there is nothing wrong with rifle 4. the problem is the holo that has stab all the time and can use it without self knockback.if you take a look at rifle without holo its a trash weapon: net shot misses half of the time for no reason, blunderbuss goes on cd without firing if your enemy is moving next to you, jumpshot is very slow and telegraphed. its one of the worst weapons in the game.

[zoopop.5630]

@shadowpass.4236 said:

@"zoopop.5630" said:deleting a spec from 1 of the 3 only viable weapons they have isn't going to solve a single thing. Rifle 4 is not over performing let alone "OP" in order for it to get nerf.

So adding half a second cast time to an instant cast, long duration, hard CC will delete an entire spec?

Yes or no? Because from my POV, it just sounds like you're being dramatic.

I'm being Dramatic?

Let's be honest..... Just checking your last few post has been noting but you being dramatic lately on the forums crying about nerfs.

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/89968/how-to-nerf-tools-holo#latest

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/89178/ranger-greatsword-is-dead#latest

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/87126/for-the-love-of-god-delete-mesmer-mantras#latest

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/79593/nerf-mantra-mesmers-and-revenants#latest

I mean we can go on for days about being overly dramatic but yea. Seem to me your just a bit bias about a few classes overall. FYI changes to great sword weren't a nerf if anything a buff but hey what would I know?

[Stand The Wall.6987]

@bravan.3876 said:snips

i'll say it again. every class has very strong, not necessarily op, skills. if you nerf rifle 4, why stop there? what about teef sword 2, necro corrupt boon, ele fresh air? these skills force combat to reach a conclusion faster and thus add risk. without risk combat is boring. I can agree to a little tweak to engi rifle 4, but its a damn slippery slope.

[shadowpass.4236]

@zoopop.5630 said:

@shadowpass.4236 said:

@zoopop.5630 said:deleting a spec from 1 of the 3 only viable weapons they have isn't going to solve a single thing. Rifle 4 is not over performing let alone "OP" in order for it to get nerf.

So adding half a second cast time to an instant cast, long duration, hard CC will delete an entire spec?

Yes or no? Because from my POV, it just sounds like you're being dramatic.

I'm being Dramatic?

Let's be honest..... Just checking your last few post has been noting but you being dramatic lately on the forums crying about nerfs.

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/89968/how-to-nerf-tools-holo#latest

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/89178/ranger-greatsword-is-dead#latest

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/87126/for-the-love-of-god-delete-mesmer-mantras#latest

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/79593/nerf-mantra-mesmers-and-revenants#latest

I mean we can go on for days about being overly dramatic but yea. Seem to me your just a bit bias about a few classes overall. FYI changes to great sword weren't a nerf if anything a buff but hey what would I know?

Yeah you're being dramatic. Adding a half a second cast time to an instant cast, long duration, hard CC will NOT delete an entire spec.

In fact, the change would hardly affect gameplay at all. Instead, it would give opposing players something to look out for instead of just getting instantly launched off the point.

I play every single class. I understand what's busted and what's not. Even on ranger I considered Sic Em Soulbeast and Bunker Boonbeast builds to be completely ezmode specs that don't require any skill to be effective on. In other words, if it feels like I'm fighting against the class more than the player, it's an issue. And, when I think it's an issue, I will bring it up in an attempt to get these problematic builds looked at.

Also, the changes to ranger greatsword hard nerfed 2 skills, made one skill slightly worse, and fixed a bug that let enemies hit through our block without needing to use unblockable attacks. So yeah, you don't know anything if you consider them a buff.

[Leonidrex.5649]

@shadowpass.4236 said:

@zoopop.5630 said:

@shadowpass.4236 said:

@zoopop.5630 said:deleting a spec from 1 of the 3 only viable weapons they have isn't going to solve a single thing. Rifle 4 is not over performing let alone "OP" in order for it to get nerf.

So adding half a second cast time to an instant cast, long duration, hard CC will delete an entire spec?

Yes or no? Because from my POV, it just sounds like you're being dramatic.

I'm being Dramatic?

Let's be honest..... Just checking your last few post has been noting but you being dramatic lately on the forums crying about nerfs.

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/89968/how-to-nerf-tools-holo#latest

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/89178/ranger-greatsword-is-dead#latest

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/87126/for-the-love-of-god-delete-mesmer-mantras#latest

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/79593/nerf-mantra-mesmers-and-revenants#latest

I mean we can go on for days about being overly dramatic but yea. Seem to me your just a bit bias about a few classes overall. FYI changes to great sword weren't a nerf if anything a buff but hey what would I know?

Yeah you're being dramatic. Adding a half a second cast time to an instant cast, long duration, hard CC will NOT delete an entire spec.

In fact, the change would hardly affect gameplay at all. Instead, it would give opposing players something to look out for instead of just getting instantly launched off the point.

I play every single class. I understand what's busted and what's not. Even on ranger I considered Sic Em Soulbeast and Bunker Boonbeast builds to be completely ezmode specs that don't require any skill to be effective on.

In other words, if it feels like I'm fighting against the class more than the player, it's an issue.

And, when I think it's an issue, I will bring it up in an attempt to get these problematic builds looked at.

Also, the changes to ranger greatsword

hard

nerfed 2 skills, made one skill slightly worse, and fixed a bug that let enemies hit through our block without needing to use unblockable attacks. So yeah, you don't know anything if you consider them a buff.

tldrBuff ranger.Nerf everything else.

[shadowpass.4236]

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@shadowpass.4236 said:On ranger I considered Sic Em Soulbeast and Bunker Boonbeast builds to be completely ezmode specs that don't require any skill to be effective on.

In other words, if it feels like I'm fighting against the class more than the player, it's an issue.

tldrBuff ranger.Nerf everything else

L2R

[Leonidrex.5649]

@shadowpass.4236 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@shadowpass.4236 said:On ranger I considered Sic Em Soulbeast and Bunker Boonbeast builds to be completely ezmode specs that don't require any skill to be effective on.

In other words, if it feels like I'm fighting against the class more than the player, it's an issue.

tldrBuff ranger.Nerf everything else

L2R

you :nerf mesmer mantra.nerf mesmer pistolnerf mesmer condi traitsnerf revnerf holo ccnerf holo healingnerf holo quicknessalso you :

RaNgEr Gs Is DeAd

[shadowpass.4236]

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@shadowpass.4236 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@shadowpass.4236 said:On ranger I considered Sic Em Soulbeast and Bunker Boonbeast builds to be completely ezmode specs that don't require any skill to be effective on.

In other words, if it feels like I'm fighting against the class more than the player, it's an issue.

tldrBuff ranger.Nerf everything else

L2R

you :nerf mesmer mantra.nerf mesmer pistolnerf mesmer condi traitsnerf revnerf holo ccnerf holo healingnerf holo quicknessalso you :

RaNgEr Gs Is DeAd

me:also plays mantra mesmeralso plays condi mesmeralso plays revalso plays holo

Dude even after the nerfs I suggest I'd still play those specs.