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First of all, I'd like to state that this is not a moan at the development team, who are doing a fantastically awesome job.

The most recent living World story was by far some of the best content they've released to date. They just keep getting better.

Given the release cadences of HoT and PoF, we SHOULD be enjoying a 3rd expansion right now.

However, somebody, somewhere thought that it would be a good idea to go straight from LWS4 into Season 5, and not to do an expansion.

I don't know the reason or method behind the madness, but from what I've seen this was largely a BAD idea.

As amazing as the LWS 5 saga stories, and content are, it's not enough.

Am I missing something?

Seriously, like why on earth would someone decide to do another LWS episode over an expansion?

Once, again, nothing against the development team the Living World content is amazing, but no Expansion seems to be starting to stress the community out and I see cracks appearing in once loyal communities.

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@Stu Grockalot.2937 said:Seriously, like why on earth would someone decide to do another LWS episode over an expansion?Expansions are a relic of the time when it was not possible to get small chunks of content out to everybody frequently. These days it is easy to distribute smaller pieces of content, which has a lot of advantages (continuous cost-profit-curve rather than a huge up-front cost for development, easier to adjust to customer reactions and demands, entices players to play continuously rather than in bursts, frequent new content for your favourite games) .

There are people that focus on one or a few games and like to have new toys to play with frequently. There are people who prefer to have big chunks of content that they can no-life through (which you still can with the current model, you just have to wait for the season to finish, which is a new experience to those that got used to being the first to finish rather than doing it after everybody else.

@Stu Grockalot.2937 said:no Expansion seems to be starting to stress the community out and I see cracks appearing in once loyal communities.If this wasn't meant as a serious question but rather just one of the weekly "game is dying" threads, I think we already had one of those this week. Should still be around on the first or second page.

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@"Stu Grockalot.2937" said:Seriously, like why on earth would someone decide to do another LWS episode over an expansion?

According to a former Anet employee that was involved in a drama and misbehaved quite a lot, nobody in the story writing team knew about a potential future of the game after LW4. It was stated that the team had to work on different endings and solely on that. If those remarks are true it won't be surprising that we only got some "light content" because it had to be developed very fast which means no time & resources for an expansion. It seems like the Saga should try to consolidate the situation and while they're on it they are (hopefully) trying to work out a solution for the future - whatever that will be.

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and may be someone don't check, but WE HAVE NEW expansion, we have new mastery Type, new mix of dungeon and raid - strike missions, new maps, buildtemplates and etc.If it was realy bad - people don't write on forums, they downloading something another, forget old, and everyone is happy.

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I don't know whether GW2 is winding down or not. I've had suspicions before, but the game has pulled through more than a few rough patches. At this point I'm hesitant to predict anything.

That said, I'm also hoping for an expansion. Living World has its shining moments, but when compared with Path of Fire it's not up to par. The story sometimes is, but the features aren't, and neither is the excitement and that it generates across the playerbase or the potential to attract new or returning players. Living World cannot bring the same enthusiasm because it is fragmented and relatively feature-sparse.

And let's be real here, if Anet and NCSoft wanted to do another expansion after PoF, they should have set a team on it right after the release of PoF. The fact that the layoffs happened doesn't excuse why they hadn't started working on the next expansion back in 2017.

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@Rasimir.6239 said:> > Expansions are a relic of the time when it was not possible to get small chunks of content out to everybody frequently. These days it is easy to distribute smaller pieces of content, which has a lot of advantages (continuous cost-profit-curve rather than a huge up-front cost for development, easier to adjust to customer reactions and demands, entices players to play continuously rather than in bursts, frequent new content for your favourite games) .

Really... so the most monetarily successful and populated games in the history of MMO's that regularly put expansions out have it all wrong? How convenient it is that you also left out GW2 and it's two expansions which were massive cash and player influxes, and deemed necessary by both management and shareholders. Also let's not forget or turn a blind eye to the fact that the LW ideology was tried and failed miserably and they knew it so they opted for a formula with proven success, expansions. You know everyone has a right to their opinion but don't gloss over facts to try and spin support for the current format as something new when it's been tried, and failed. Now they are doing it clearly out of necessity because management pulled staff off to work on projects unrelated to GW2 and hence they haven't had the time to build an expansion. LW is only a necessary path due to those circumstances and their dressing up this formula up as sagas and not LW, doesn't change the fact that a spade is a spade. Intermittent patches do not satisfy everyone, are not constant revenue as they are free and the gem store is active regardless of LW or expansion content. LW/Sagas are far less likely to bring in new players or prompt older players to return and spend money on not only the expansions but in the gem store.

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Expansions are a relic of time? What universe or time are you on? Literally every other game company releases expansions. The only advantage of releasing tiny bits of content are economic. But overall bits of content will not keep people playing the game especially if another MMO releases an expansion or a new MMO comes out. The new season could be done in over a day. Even the achievements were ridiculously short. I love how you mention people that have no-life when you can find time to be on the forum posting about this. Clearly you have no life too but you choose to spend it on the forum rather than playing the game which is precisely why you do not understand why living story is bad compared to a fully fledged expansion. An expansion brings new content in a scale living story does not. There is a level of enthusiasm that an expansion brings. You can advertise an expansion, you cannot however advertise a living story. What is lacking is enthusiasm for the game. Since POF, the game has not done or introduced any content that would attract new players. No new player is going to be enthralled with content that can be done in a day. If anet wants to go forward with LS, they better think about introducing new classes/professions, dungeons, fractals with the LS patches. Maybe one profession at a time even as that would give them enough feedback to balance professions better. Strike missions I feel is a good start, but it is way too short and the mechanics are just not comparable to raid mechanics. Content for the sake of content is not wise and sadly it feels like that is what anet is doing. Shortening raids/fractals with a single boss strike mission where players can steamroll through in minutes. Compare this to dungeons where we are with a group of players for a lot longer. You had a chance to make friends, get to know people. Now with the strike missions and the world meta it feels like mindlessly going through a to do list.

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@"Rasimir.6239" said:Expansions are a relic of the time when it was not possible to get small chunks of content out to everybody frequently.

:lol: Are you serious? "Small chunks of content" are like reading a book where someone forbids you to read more than one chapter at once, but only one every 2-4 months instead of reading the book at your own pace. How is that preferable, and how is reading a book at your own pace "a relic of the past"? :s

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@Ashantara.8731 said:

@"Rasimir.6239" said:Expansions are a relic of the time when it was not possible to get small chunks of content out to everybody frequently.

:lol: Are you serious? "Small chunks of content" are like reading a book where someone forbids you to read more than one chapter at once, but only one every 2-4 months instead of reading the book at your own pace. How is
that
preferable, and how is reading a book at your own pace "a relic of the past"? :sIt's the difference between reading a movie and watching a weekly tv show. Some people prefer one, some the other.

The "relic of the past" comment wasn't aimed at how you get to consume the content, but simply at the technical delivery. Just like people could only watch movies at the theatre before tv became a thing. Doesn't mean expansions will disappear from the face of the earth, simply that they are no longer mandatory and we will see more and more games deliver content in smaller chunks in the future.

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@Hannelore.8153 said:I guess you missed the part where ArenaNet had all their projects cancelled by NCSoft and half their staff fired as well.

I guess you missed the part where most of Anet staff wasn't working on GW2 before and the cuts shifted most of the studio to work on this game again. GW2 had a net gain at the cost of unnamed projects.

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@Acheron.4731 said:no expansion model will be the downfall of the game.Is expansion payable ? if yes - we will lose more players that win. Nowadays al lot off free games, and sell on fisrt step is so bad idea.After merge hot and pof I see new players come in guils, who start 1-2 month ago ..And number is grow.

IF we add payable expansion we will kill this fresh blood.

no new elite specs specificallyno way. May be proper remove 1 elite spec. Do merge pof and hot specialization.There is to much specs .. any one more row will make it not simple for undestanting ..Most people look on heae trait line - say ok, not for me, and download normal simple free game.

you can only play different 'maps' with the same characters so longpeople a diferent. Someone bored after 1 day, someone no. For pvp/wvw the map is players.For pve we have wide content, wich is not possible take from 20 years if play 8 h per day. Why we need more ??

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@Eloc Freidon.5692 said:

@Hannelore.8153 said:I guess you missed the part where ArenaNet had all their projects cancelled by NCSoft and half their staff fired as well.

I guess you missed the part where most of Anet staff wasn't working on GW2 before and the cuts shifted most of the studio to work on this game again. GW2 had a net gain at the cost of unnamed projects.

There is no proof of this, and substantial evidence that one of the projects was GW related.

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@Eloc Freidon.5692 said:

@Hannelore.8153 said:I guess you missed the part where ArenaNet had all their projects cancelled by NCSoft and half their staff fired as well.

I guess you missed the part where most of Anet staff wasn't working on GW2 before and the cuts shifted most of the studio to work on this game again. GW2 had a net gain at the cost of unnamed projects.

You really believed that spin, huh? Okay.

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@Vlad Morbius.1759 said:

@Rasimir.6239 said:> > Expansions are a relic of the time when it was not possible to get small chunks of content out to everybody frequently. These days it is easy to distribute smaller pieces of content, which has a lot of advantages (continuous cost-profit-curve rather than a huge up-front cost for development, easier to adjust to customer reactions and demands, entices players to play continuously rather than in bursts, frequent new content for your favourite games) .

Really... so the most monetarily successful and populated games in the history of MMO's that regularly put expansions out have it all wrong? How convenient it is that you also left out GW2 and it's two expansions which were massive cash and player influxes, and deemed necessary by both management and shareholders. Also let's not forget or turn a blind eye to the fact that the LW ideology was tried and failed miserably and they knew it so they opted for a formula with proven success, expansions. You know everyone has a right to their opinion but don't gloss over facts to try and spin support for the current format as something new when it's been tried, and failed. Now they are doing it clearly out of necessity because management pulled staff off to work on projects unrelated to GW2 and hence they haven't had the time to build an expansion. LW is only a necessary path due to those circumstances and their dressing up this formula up as sagas and not LW, doesn't change the fact that a spade is a spade. Intermittent patches do not satisfy everyone, are not constant revenue as they are free and the gem store is active regardless of LW or expansion content. LW/Sagas are far less likely to bring in new players or prompt older players to return and spend money on not only the expansions but in the gem store.

Tbh runescape has done it without the idea of expensions for the most part. And you can't really say that game isn't /wasn't successful

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@yann.1946 said:

@Rasimir.6239 said:> > Expansions are a relic of the time when it was not possible to get small chunks of content out to everybody frequently. These days it is easy to distribute smaller pieces of content, which has a lot of advantages (continuous cost-profit-curve rather than a huge up-front cost for development, easier to adjust to customer reactions and demands, entices players to play continuously rather than in bursts, frequent new content for your favourite games) .

Really... so the most monetarily successful and populated games in the history of MMO's that regularly put expansions out have it all wrong? How convenient it is that you also left out GW2 and it's two expansions which were massive cash and player influxes, and deemed necessary by both management and shareholders. Also let's not forget or turn a blind eye to the fact that the LW ideology was tried and failed miserably and they knew it so they opted for a formula with proven success, expansions. You know everyone has a right to their opinion but don't gloss over facts to try and spin support for the current format as something new when it's been tried, and failed. Now they are doing it clearly out of necessity because management pulled staff off to work on projects unrelated to GW2 and hence they haven't had the time to build an expansion. LW is only a necessary path due to those circumstances and their dressing up this formula up as sagas and not LW, doesn't change the fact that a spade is a spade. Intermittent patches do not satisfy everyone, are not constant revenue as they are free and the gem store is active regardless of LW or expansion content. LW/Sagas are far less likely to bring in new players or prompt older players to return and spend money on not only the expansions but in the gem store.

Tbh runescape has done it without the idea of expensions for the most part. And you can't really say that game isn't /wasn't successful

Runescape expanded 3 times. Classic to 07 to rs3... And then became each its own game modes with new updates every week.. Try again

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@AsiraasiB.7165 said:

@Rasimir.6239 said:> > Expansions are a relic of the time when it was not possible to get small chunks of content out to everybody frequently. These days it is easy to distribute smaller pieces of content, which has a lot of advantages (continuous cost-profit-curve rather than a huge up-front cost for development, easier to adjust to customer reactions and demands, entices players to play continuously rather than in bursts, frequent new content for your favourite games) .

Really... so the most monetarily successful and populated games in the history of MMO's that regularly put expansions out have it all wrong? How convenient it is that you also left out GW2 and it's two expansions which were massive cash and player influxes, and deemed necessary by both management and shareholders. Also let's not forget or turn a blind eye to the fact that the LW ideology was tried and failed miserably and they knew it so they opted for a formula with proven success, expansions. You know everyone has a right to their opinion but don't gloss over facts to try and spin support for the current format as something new when it's been tried, and failed. Now they are doing it clearly out of necessity because management pulled staff off to work on projects unrelated to GW2 and hence they haven't had the time to build an expansion. LW is only a necessary path due to those circumstances and their dressing up this formula up as sagas and not LW, doesn't change the fact that a spade is a spade. Intermittent patches do not satisfy everyone, are not constant revenue as they are free and the gem store is active regardless of LW or expansion content. LW/Sagas are far less likely to bring in new players or prompt older players to return and spend money on not only the expansions but in the gem store.

Tbh runescape has done it without the idea of expensions for the most part. And you can't really say that game isn't /wasn't successful

Runescape expanded 3 times. Classic to 07 to rs3... And then became each its own game modes with new updates every week.. Try again

Those are not expansions though. The switches from classic to 2 and 3 where mostly graphical updates. The reason people asked r07 back was because the evolution of combat took something away from them.

And people didn't have to buy these changes.

So try again.

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@Rasimir.6239 said:

@Rasimir.6239 said:Expansions are a relic of the time when it was not possible to get small chunks of content out to everybody frequently.

:lol: Are you serious? "Small chunks of content" are like reading a book where someone forbids you to read more than one chapter at once, but only one every 2-4 months instead of reading the book at your own pace. How is
that
preferable, and how is reading a book at your own pace "a relic of the past"? :sIt's the difference between reading a movie and watching a weekly tv show. Some people prefer one, some the other.

No, that's not the same. Most television shows have small-scaled, compact stories within any big arc that provide a conclusion at the end of each episode, so that you aren't left with an everlasting cliffhanger and the feeling of tension that only builds up and never gets released.

An example of a show that did it all wrong was "Lost" - it was driving fans crazy by never providing a solution to any story arc. The show only created more questions with each episode, having the story drag on slowly over years with tons of repetitive story mechanics. That was truly bad writing, but I wouldn't expect any better from J. J. Abrams, who is only good at creating tension but never knows how to release it in a satisfying way and is unable to come up with an intellectually satisfying answer at the end. The finale was then a disaster, as expected ("Alias" or any other Abrams production wasn't much better in that regard).

That's the danger of splitting a story over a long period of time without any conclusions offered or any release of tension provided, but instead artificially creating more and more tension. That's just a cheap way to keep people hooked without providing real quality.

I enjoy many tv series, but that doesn't mean every tv series is well written and that I like them all the same, just like - as a movie fan - you can't claim to love every single movie out there (I know I don't as there is a lot of bad writing, mostly cheap action and expensive special effects without substance, these days).

Living World seasons aren't like the aforementioned well written tv shows (or tv shows at all) that have compact stories and a satisfying conclusion at the end of each episode, they are more like "Lost" in certain aspects: you want to know the conclusion but are forced to wait forever to get there as you cannot choose your own pace of getting there - which is why my analogy of reading a book is better suited than that of a television series.

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