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[Suggestion] Stop making Story Bosses Hard (LS4 Spoilers)


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I don't understand how people can still be expecting easy fights 5 seasons and 2 expansions in. You had years and hundred of hours of content to learn the game mechanics and to adapt. Not all content should be readily available and beatable by newcomers.It's a story in a game. It's not a movie. Expect at least some time to adapt to new situation. That's also what makes some mechanics refreshing.Also no. It's nowhere near raid level. There's no point comparing it to raids.

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@Deihnyx.6318 said:I don't understand how people can still be expecting easy fights 5 seasons and 2 expansions in.

Because thanks to the business model of the game you can skip the previous seasons (and even expansions) and proceed directly to the latest season. You don't need to finish any of the previous story, not even the personal story, to play the newest season episodes. The Icebrood Saga is clearly of a much lower challenge level than the expansions or past seasons, because the developers expect players to start from there apparently, ignoring 6 years of content.

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@Dante.1508 said:

@SexyMofo.8923 said:NONE of the pve story bosses are hard. I repeat: NONE. I am a solo player and I don’t recall needed help on any of them.

Then you are very fortunate to have the skill and ability to manage them by yourself. Not everyone possesses such level skill or ability.

This in my opinion.. And from talking to my guild in discord many others do not pass it either, a few ladies in discord never even leave core tyria.

Are these players also the reason why my trash exotics from raids with terrible dire, knights, rabid, magi stat combos sell?

Maybe start there and get them an actual build in pve and a lot of the difficulty goes away. When enemies die before they can even attack, theres no difficulty to speak of.

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@Dante.1508 said:

@Shadowmoon.7986 said:I don't know how you can feel tense when the NPC's can kill the boss for you. I really don't understand how having player agency is now consider tedious. And if you can't do the content still, find a friend to help you. The content either doesn't scale or scales so poorly it is not noticeable. This is a MMO, not a single player walking simulator.

No one wants to do it they've already done it years ago.

Admit it you are just a troll. You can't be that bad :)Calling story bosses hard is the most hilarious joke I read today.I don't know how story bosses in this game can be easier. They need to die instantly when they see your character so you can watch your movie? This is a game btw, not a movie? Want to know the story? Go and watch it on youtube or twitch. If you can't kill story boss you don't deserve to learn the story from your playing, because you are not playing the game, you are watching a movie.

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@Shikaru.7618 said:

@"SexyMofo.8923" said:NONE of the pve story bosses are hard. I repeat: NONE. I am a solo player and I don’t recall needed help on any of them.

Then you are very fortunate to have the skill and ability to manage them by yourself. Not everyone possesses such level skill or ability.

This in my opinion.. And from talking to my guild in discord many others do not pass it either, a few ladies in discord never even leave core tyria.

Are these players also the reason why my trash exotics from raids with terrible dire, knights, rabid, magi stat combos sell?

Maybe start there and get them an actual build in pve and a lot of the difficulty goes away. When enemies die before they can even attack, theres no difficulty to speak of.

quite hard if you are playing thief and cant deal enough damage solo without ascended gear to get the story done fast enough (additionally to thief lacking damage and CC in every possible way compared to "hundred blades spamming warriors" or anything else with tons of damage)

oh right shouldnt speak about thief.... is just the only class to have seen only a single buff since the release of the game ^^

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@Murtos.5342 said:

@"SexyMofo.8923" said:NONE of the pve story bosses are hard. I repeat: NONE. I am a solo player and I don’t recall needed help on any of them.

Then you are very fortunate to have the skill and ability to manage them by yourself. Not everyone possesses such level skill or ability.

This in my opinion.. And from talking to my guild in discord many others do not pass it either, a few ladies in discord never even leave core tyria.

Are these players also the reason why my trash exotics from raids with terrible dire, knights, rabid, magi stat combos sell?

Maybe start there and get them an actual build in pve and a lot of the difficulty goes away. When enemies die before they can even attack, theres no difficulty to speak of.

quite hard if you are playing thief and cant deal enough damage solo without ascended gear to get the story done fast enough (additionally to thief lacking damage and CC in every possible way compared to "hundred blades spamming warriors" or anything else with tons of damage)

oh right shouldnt speak about thief.... is just the only class to have seen only a single buff since the release of the game ^^

You must be joking. Thief has one of the highest amounts of health sustain in all of pve, has way higher damage than "hundred blades spamming warriors" as camping great sword is bad dps. Ascended gear isnt some magical fix all solution. If you do bad damage in your exotic gear, sorry to break it to you buddy but you're going to do bad damage in ascended gear too. Class knowledge, correct stat combos, and proper rotations matter way more than the upgrade from exotics to ascended.

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@Shikaru.7618 said:

@"SexyMofo.8923" said:NONE of the pve story bosses are hard. I repeat: NONE. I am a solo player and I don’t recall needed help on any of them.

Then you are very fortunate to have the skill and ability to manage them by yourself. Not everyone possesses such level skill or ability.

This in my opinion.. And from talking to my guild in discord many others do not pass it either, a few ladies in discord never even leave core tyria.

Are these players also the reason why my trash exotics from raids with terrible dire, knights, rabid, magi stat combos sell?

Maybe start there and get them an actual build in pve and a lot of the difficulty goes away. When enemies die before they can even attack, theres no difficulty to speak of.

quite hard if you are playing thief and cant deal enough damage solo without ascended gear to get the story done fast enough (additionally to thief lacking damage and CC in every possible way compared to "hundred blades spamming warriors" or anything else with tons of damage)

oh right shouldnt speak about thief.... is just the only class to have seen only a single buff since the release of the game ^^

You must be joking. Thief has one of the highest amounts of health sustain in all of pve, has way higher damage than "hundred blades spamming warriors" as camping great sword is bad dps. Ascended gear isnt some magical fix all solution. If you do bad damage in your exotic gear, sorry to break it to you buddy but you're going to do bad damage in ascended gear too. Class knowledge, correct stat combos, and proper rotations matter way more than the upgrade from exotics to ascended.

Don't even try man, those players are too bad. I was going to write something like that, but there is no point. Those are the players MikeZ was talking about in one of his interview, where he said that many players are dealing 10 times less damage than average veteran player. This is why the game is a movie now, where you don't need to do anything, just walk around pressing 1 in random gear picking up loot. Those players are Anets focus right now and they still are not happy, because content is still too hard for them :)

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They aren't hard - they are annoying!The worst thing about bosses is mechanic: spam all high damage skills -> die -> boss doesn't reset -> retry from checkpoint -> repeat until finished.Because of this I have no interest to do it right way, I can use other stats like marauder instead berserker, and such, but why?

Plus actually I don't like, how aoes is displayed, like all floor goes red, dodge, next same in 5 seconds, dodge, what to do next, I ran out of dodges and I don't know if this red circles - oneshots or something, only applies conditions, or moderate damage that I can take without dying.So in the end you're supposed to know about this encounter, but without resetting bosses hp, you're not interested in it, because you can finish it by repeating from death. It's worst thing, even worse than spam 1 skill all the time.

I think they can be easier, like boss having less hp, less aoe spam, but reset with every death, so you're encouraged to learn patterns from attacks, use different stats, stunbreaks, cleanses, stability and so on. And an ability to start fight right from the boss after leaving instance, would be needed.

For example, I literally spent hours, to figure out, how to beat Liadri, what skills I need to do that, how mechanics works, and in the end it felt very satisfying - could not say that about bosses from LS3, POF, LS4 (only 2 I finished).

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Bosses should be as hard as trying to solo dungeons (Like Honor of the Waves dungeon for example) but just a tiny bit more opportunity to improve and eventually win. It's thrilling to spend time on how to change your build so you can figure out how to beat the encounter. Then when you go back, you know exactly how to beat it because you spent so much time doing so. To me that is a great feeling and what a game should do...not only should encounters be challenging, but there should be legitimately interesting puzzles (think of legendary pokemon-esque puzzles) where it requires a real effort by the brain (rather than brawn) to figure out how to overcome a certain obstacle.

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@"maddoctor.2738" said:It depends on -which- boss we are talking about as some story bosses are over-tuned, for example the boss described in the OP, blanket statements like "all story is easy", or the reverse "all story is hard" aren't helping anyone.

All story is easy. Not just easy, VERY EASY. It is impossible to fail. If you fail in story, you are bad, VERY BAD.

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@"WIR BRAUCHEN ONE EIGHTY.4257" said:They aren't hard - they are annoying!The worst thing about bosses is mechanic: spam all high damage skills -> die -> boss doesn't reset -> retry from checkpoint -> repeat until finished.Because of this I have no interest to do it right way, I can use other stats like marauder instead berserker, and such, but why?

Plus actually I don't like, how aoes is displayed, like all floor goes red, dodge, next same in 5 seconds, dodge, what to do next, I ran out of dodges and I don't know if this red circles - oneshots or something, only applies conditions, or moderate damage that I can take without dying.So in the end you're supposed to know about this encounter, but without resetting bosses hp, you're not interested in it, because you can finish it by repeating from death. It's worst thing, even worse than spam 1 skill all the time.

I think they can be easier, like boss having less hp, less aoe spam, but reset with every death, so you're encouraged to learn patterns from attacks, use different stats, stunbreaks, cleanses, stability and so on. And an ability to start fight right from the boss after leaving instance, would be needed.

For example, I literally spent hours, to figure out, how to beat Liadri, what skills I need to do that, how mechanics works, and in the end it felt very satisfying - could not say that about bosses from LS3, POF, LS4 (only 2 I finished).

I would agree that boss fights should reset with death and we should learn mechanics to be able to beat them but if they made them easier because of that that would suck even more. They are already easy enough that I don't even remember when I died to one (I probably did a few times, but don't remember because it is so rare). Making them easier would just mean that people that play for the gaming experience and are skilled enough would 100 % one shot them all making them even more boring.Harder mode is the answer. Health reset on death and tuning them harder. Keep the normal mode at vanilla difficulty.

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@Shadowmoon.7986 said:I don't know how you can feel tense when the NPC's can kill the boss for you.

Tense atmosphere in story-telling <> challenging fights

Two different pairs of shoes. Anyway, I hope that future story mission fights will pose a challenge again, regardless of some people's baseless complaints about the high level of difficulty (it's all about mechanics). Perhaps ANet can finally introduce an option where you can select the level of difficulty, then everyone would be happy. (I do understand that challenging fights are not doable for physically impaired players, so having an option would be nice.)

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@"Andoral.3619" said:

@"Shadowmoon.7986" said:I don't know how you can feel tense when the NPC's can kill the boss for you. I really don't understand how having player agency is now consider tedious. And if you can't do the content still, find a friend to help you. The content either doesn't scale or scales so poorly it is not noticeable. This is a MMO, not a single player walking simulator.

No one wants to do it they've already done it years ago.

Admit it you are just a troll. You can't be that bad :)Calling story bosses hard is the most hilarious joke I read today.I doubt they are trolling. I'm in a guild with such a person. They are likely being quite serious.Struggling with the story is not unheard of. I help a couple of people a week with story instances like Hearts and Minds, the Balthazaar fight, or any number of missions. Usually people politely call out in gchat looking for a hand because it's an MMO. In some cases however, people will lose their minds and say developers should be fired and then turn to the forums with passive-aggressive memes.The problem here is that this game coddles the player so hard from 1-80, protecting them from any potential breaking of the power-fantasy, that by the time they get to HoT they often find themselves overwhelmed. Imagine going from the Zhaitan fight where you quite literally press 1 to win, then go into the first episode of HoT with the snipers, and the vines. Maybe you've played the entire game solo to this point and that yellow Pact Weapon crate you got at the end of the personal story was a reelvant upgrade to your mainhand weapon.You have a few choices at that point:You can do a gutcheck and solve the issue yourself, learn how to gear in exotics and make a decent build.You can ask people for help because it's indeed an MMORPG and sometimes the best way to overcome an obstacle is with friends.or...You can join in on the "bad design" talk and blame someone else so as to maintain the power-fantasy and protect your own ego. Anyone who tells you that the fights in the post LWS2 are largely skill checks is an elitist telling you to "git gud". Anyone to recommend a proper gear set is just a "meta-slave". Those who actually manage these encounters are just exploiting power creep.The difference between these reactions depends largely on what kind of person you are and how you respond to defeat or challenge.You can write it off as trolling but this exact same attitude powers the majority of "balance" complaints on the competitive forums. Blaming the developers rather than accepting one's skill cap and focusing on improvement is just easier and maintains the power-fantasy.

@"Murtos.5342" said:quite hard if you are playing thief and cant deal enough damage solo without ascended gear to get the story done fast enough (additionally to thief lacking damage and CC in every possible way compared to "hundred blades spamming warriors" or anything else with tons of damage)

oh right shouldnt speak about thief.... is just the only class to have seen only a single buff since the release of the game ^^Hearts and Minds can be easily soloed on a thief in greens. You could throw out every useful piece of gear the game gives you doing the personal story, dress in nothing but uncommons and still beat Mordremoth solo.
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@"Andoral.3619" said:

@Shadowmoon.7986 said:I don't know how you can feel tense when the NPC's can kill the boss for you. I really don't understand how having player agency is now consider tedious. And if you can't do the content still, find a friend to help you. The content either doesn't scale or scales so poorly it is not noticeable. This is a MMO, not a single player walking simulator.

No one wants to do it they've already done it years ago.

Admit it you are just a troll. You can't be that bad :)Calling story bosses hard is the most hilarious joke I read today.I don't know how story bosses in this game can be easier. They need to die instantly when they see your character so you can watch your movie? This is a game btw, not a movie? Want to know the story? Go and watch it on youtube or twitch. If you can't kill story boss you don't deserve to learn the story from your playing, because you are not playing the game, you are watching a movie.

Yeah because everyone has the exact same skill sets playing a game, you trying doing half these bosses with shaking hands and 600ms ping times then get back to me on how amazing you are..

You are the one who is trolling.

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@"Andoral.3619" said:

@"maddoctor.2738" said:It depends on -which- boss we are talking about as some story bosses are over-tuned, for example the boss described in the OP, blanket statements like "all story is easy", or the reverse "all story is hard" aren't helping anyone.

All story is easy. Not just easy, VERY EASY. It is impossible to fail. If you fail in story, you are bad, VERY BAD.

Yeah but until you can empathize with others you don't really get to judge, not everyone has your skill levels or even wants it.. I'm here to enjoy a story and play a game casually after my real life, i'm not here to do raid lite just to see the next installment of what ever silly mechanics the devs think up next..

Its not fun for me to be challenged in gaming, to me challenge in gaming is like beyond pointless.. I do not feel complete after doing this stuff i just feel run down and uninterested..

@Shikaru.7618 said:

@SexyMofo.8923 said:NONE of the pve story bosses are hard. I repeat: NONE. I am a solo player and I don’t recall needed help on any of them.

Then you are very fortunate to have the skill and ability to manage them by yourself. Not everyone possesses such level skill or ability.

This in my opinion.. And from talking to my guild in discord many others do not pass it either, a few ladies in discord never even leave core tyria.

Are these players also the reason why my trash exotics from raids with terrible dire, knights, rabid, magi stat combos sell?

Maybe start there and get them an actual build in pve and a lot of the difficulty goes away. When enemies die before they can even attack, theres no difficulty to speak of.

It has zero to do with the build, any one can get marauders, vipers or berserker gears and a build from metabattle, not everyone can acquire the skills to dodge 15 cc and 8k hits... yeah a few people playing games are top tier, pat yourselves on the back you are great at virtual entertainment twitch skills.. Grats..

Thats why t4 Fractals and Raids exist.. go enjoy them i will not be there ruining them for you.

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@Dante.1508 said:Yeah but until you can empathize with others you don't really get to judge, not everyone has your skill levels or even wants it.. I'm here to enjoy a story and play a game casually after my real life, i'm not here to do raid lite just to see the next installment of what ever silly mechanics the devs think up next..

Its not fun for me to be challenged in gaming, to me challenge in gaming is like beyond pointless.. I do not feel complete after doing this stuff i just feel run down and uninterested..

Then, by all means, please go play a different game. The GW franchise, which has always been about fight mechanics and challenges since its GW1 days, is not for players like you.

@Dante.1508 said:Thats why t4 Fractals and Raids exist.. go enjoy them i will not be there ruining them for you.

No, you just want to ruin story mission fights for the rest of us. Seriously, go try Hard Mode for story missions in GW1, then come back complaining. You'll probably find Normal Mode already to be too difficult.

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@Ashantara.8731 said:Then, by all means, please go play a different game. The GW franchise, which has always been about fight mechanics and challenges since its GW1 days, is not for players like you.

But yet, there is a general consensus that GW2 targets a more casual player, so perhaps those looking for increased challenges should be the ones looking toward different games?

It does no good for our community at all to tell players to leave.

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@"kharmin.7683" said:But yet, there is a general consensus that GW2 targets a more casual player, so perhaps those looking for increased challenges should be the ones looking toward different games?

Why should we when, up until recently, the game has had challeging story mission fights? "A more casual playerbase" doesn't mean "kindergarten difficulty", it only means that you don't have to grind for hours each and every day to be able to get what you need in order to succeed in this game. It already is very casual-friendly.

It does no good for our community at all to tell players to leave.

It doesn't do the community any good to have content turned into kindergarten difficulty, either. It will have many players leave over it, because up until LWS5 we've always had challenging story mission fights. The sudden, recent change doesn't mean that this is the norm. What we had before, for many years, defines the norm.

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@Ashantara.8731 said:It doesn't do the community any good to have content turned into kindergarten difficulty, either. It will have many players leave over it, because up until LWS4 we've always had challenging story mission content.Well, Anet has all of the data on player retention, so it would seem that these decisions are probably based on that. Still, if what you're saying is true about people leaving, then it doesn't help retain the population by telling others to leave the game.

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@kharmin.7683 said:Well, Anet has all of the data on player retention, so it would seem that these decisions are probably based on that. Still, if what you're saying is true about people leaving, then it doesn't help retain the population by telling others to leave the game.

If they find it too difficult, what else am I supposed to tell them? They keep complaining about the way the game has been for over 5 years, so who should be looking for a different game then: the players who enjoyed the former level of difficulty or those who can't seem to handle it? Again, 5+ years of a decently high difficulty. If you can't handle it after five years, it is safe to assume that this isn't a game suited for your playstyle, no?

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@Ashantara.8731 said:

@kharmin.7683 said:Well, Anet has all of the data on player retention, so it would seem that these decisions are probably based on that. Still, if what you're saying is true about people leaving, then it doesn't help retain the population by telling others to leave the game.

If they find it too difficult, what else am I supposed to tell them? They keep complaining about the way the game has been for over 5 years, so who should be looking for a different game then: the players who enjoyed the former level of difficulty or those who can't seem to handle it? Again,
5+ years of a decently high difficulty
. If you can't handle it after five years, it is safe to assume that this isn't a game suited for your playstyle, no?

Or, if a player finds it too easy and doesn't like the direction of the level of difficulty over those same five years maybe the game isn't suited to their playstyle? My point is that neither end of the spectrum is going to be satisfied with changes that run counter to the way that they enjoy GW2. Telling people to just leave is unhelpful, from either camp.

And it's never safe to assume when neither side has all of the facts.

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@"kharmin.7683" said:Well, Anet has all of the data on player retention, so it would seem that these decisions are probably based on that.

I doubt the reduction in the challenge level of the Icebrood Saga has anything to do with some kind of "data". The way they market it and talk about it it's as if they want players to start with the Icebrood Saga and skip the rest of the game, which is understandable that's where all the old players will be. So this massive drop is there to better introduce players to the game with an extended tutorial. Where this kind of fails is that Path of Fire, the expansion required to play the Icebrood Saga, has higher difficulty fights than the Saga, as if telling players to skip even the expansion and go directly for the Season. It's a weird choice and I don't see it in any way being done for player retention, if someone finds Path of Fire too hard they'll leave already before touching the Saga, and those that liked the level of difficulty in Path of Fire will be confused at the massive drop in the Saga.

Overall it's a weird choice and reminds me of Ember Bay, the second episode of Season 3 which was a joke difficulty-wise. And judging by Anet not doing another Ember Bay afterwards they got the data on how good that episode was for player activity and retention.

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