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@yann.1946 said:

@Rasimir.6239 said:> > Expansions are a relic of the time when it was not possible to get small chunks of content out to everybody frequently. These days it is easy to distribute smaller pieces of content, which has a lot of advantages (continuous cost-profit-curve rather than a huge up-front cost for development, easier to adjust to customer reactions and demands, entices players to play continuously rather than in bursts, frequent new content for your favourite games) .

Really... so the most monetarily successful and populated games in the history of MMO's that regularly put expansions out have it all wrong? How convenient it is that you also left out GW2 and it's two expansions which were massive cash and player influxes, and deemed necessary by both management and shareholders. Also let's not forget or turn a blind eye to the fact that the LW ideology was tried and failed miserably and they knew it so they opted for a formula with proven success, expansions. You know everyone has a right to their opinion but don't gloss over facts to try and spin support for the current format as something new when it's been tried, and failed. Now they are doing it clearly out of necessity because management pulled staff off to work on projects unrelated to GW2 and hence they haven't had the time to build an expansion. LW is only a necessary path due to those circumstances and their dressing up this formula up as sagas and not LW, doesn't change the fact that a spade is a spade. Intermittent patches do not satisfy everyone, are not constant revenue as they are free and the gem store is active regardless of LW or expansion content. LW/Sagas are far less likely to bring in new players or prompt older players to return and spend money on not only the expansions but in the gem store.

Tbh runescape has done it without the idea of expensions for the most part. And you can't really say that game isn't /wasn't successful

Runescape expanded 3 times. Classic to 07 to rs3... And then became each its own game modes with new updates every week.. Try again

Those are not expansions though. The switches from classic to 2 and 3 where mostly graphical updates. The reason people asked r07 back was because the evolution of combat took something away from them.

And people didn't have to buy these changes.

So try again.

I played and play RS since 2001 they were both exacs and thats how the devs told us... And yes Jagex listened to the fan base after losing mills in profit.

And duh No1 paid its a f2p game with membership that's how u pay

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@AsiraasiB.7165 said:

@Rasimir.6239 said:> > Expansions are a relic of the time when it was not possible to get small chunks of content out to everybody frequently. These days it is easy to distribute smaller pieces of content, which has a lot of advantages (continuous cost-profit-curve rather than a huge up-front cost for development, easier to adjust to customer reactions and demands, entices players to play continuously rather than in bursts, frequent new content for your favourite games) .

Really... so the most monetarily successful and populated games in the history of MMO's that regularly put expansions out have it all wrong? How convenient it is that you also left out GW2 and it's two expansions which were massive cash and player influxes, and deemed necessary by both management and shareholders. Also let's not forget or turn a blind eye to the fact that the LW ideology was tried and failed miserably and they knew it so they opted for a formula with proven success, expansions. You know everyone has a right to their opinion but don't gloss over facts to try and spin support for the current format as something new when it's been tried, and failed. Now they are doing it clearly out of necessity because management pulled staff off to work on projects unrelated to GW2 and hence they haven't had the time to build an expansion. LW is only a necessary path due to those circumstances and their dressing up this formula up as sagas and not LW, doesn't change the fact that a spade is a spade. Intermittent patches do not satisfy everyone, are not constant revenue as they are free and the gem store is active regardless of LW or expansion content. LW/Sagas are far less likely to bring in new players or prompt older players to return and spend money on not only the expansions but in the gem store.

Tbh runescape has done it without the idea of expensions for the most part. And you can't really say that game isn't /wasn't successful

Runescape expanded 3 times. Classic to 07 to rs3... And then became each its own game modes with new updates every week.. Try again

Those are not expansions though. The switches from classic to 2 and 3 where mostly graphical updates. The reason people asked r07 back was because the evolution of combat took something away from them.

And people didn't have to buy these changes.

So try again.

I played and play RS since 2001 they were both exacs and thats how the devs told us... And yes Jagex listened to the fan base after losing mills in profit.

And duh No1 paid its a f2p game with membership that's how u pay

You really have a weird definition of an expac then. For allmost all people they wouldn't count as expacs.

And all games with subscription make you pay for expacs also.

Tbh I'm quite interested how you define an expac then.

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@Hannelore.8153 said:

@Hannelore.8153 said:I guess you missed the part where ArenaNet had all their projects cancelled by NCSoft and half their staff fired as well.

I guess you missed the part where most of Anet staff wasn't working on GW2 before and the cuts shifted most of the studio to work on this game again. GW2 had a net gain at the cost of unnamed projects.

There is no proof of this, and substantial evidence that one of the projects was GW related.

@Hannelore.8153 said:I guess you missed the part where ArenaNet had all their projects cancelled by NCSoft and half their staff fired as well.

I guess you missed the part where most of Anet staff wasn't working on GW2 before and the cuts shifted most of the studio to work on this game again. GW2 had a net gain at the cost of unnamed projects.

You really believed that spin, huh? Okay.

They went out and said that all their specific content groups have grown into equally full teams. Don't know how any of that is insubstantial or spin.

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@"lare.5129" said:no way. May be proper remove 1 elite spec. Do merge pof and hot specialization.I'm not sure that this would be possible as the elites from each expansion serve different roles/purposes. As raids were released with HoT, many of the elites were more "group-based" whereas PoF elites were not. Have you tried playing druid in OWPvE? Or Scourge? Possible, sure, but I think that you might find that their skill-sets are more tuned for support roles rather than solo.

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What we have seen so far in the Prologue and first Episode is nowhere near close to ever amount up to expansion level content. This is not "frequent toys to play with" it's a straight out content draught since Dragonfall. The Masteries are a complete joke, they are solely there as a roadblock that you have to take in order to use some convoluted, unfun and soon never to be used again loot and combatsystem. And if we didn't like flaunting our Mastery Count so much(295 or 303?) some of us wouldn't probably even bother with these masteries. Story was 30 minutes. Now we can wait for another 2-3 months.

Dragonfall was great: now we are seeing the effects of the hammer that fell on Anet. Having 2 LW seasons in a row is not a "new direction" , it is the struggle of a Company that mismanaged trying to save the game.

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@Rasimir.6239 said:

@Stu Grockalot.2937 said:Seriously, like why on earth would someone decide to do another LWS episode over an expansion?Expansions are a relic of the time when it was not possible to get small chunks of content out to everybody frequently. These days it is easy to distribute smaller pieces of content, which has a lot of advantages (continuous cost-profit-curve rather than a huge up-front cost for development, easier to adjust to customer reactions and demands, entices players to play continuously rather than in bursts, frequent new content for your favourite games) .

There are people that focus on one or a few games and like to have new toys to play with frequently. There are people who prefer to have big chunks of content that they can no-life through (which you still can with the current model, you just have to wait for the season to finish, which is a new experience to those that got used to being the first to finish rather than doing it after everybody else.

@Stu Grockalot.2937 said:no Expansion seems to be starting to stress the community out and I see cracks appearing in once loyal communities.If this wasn't meant as a serious question but rather just one of the weekly "game is dying" threads, I think we already had one of those this week. Should still be around on the first or second page.

Tho every other live service title is doing expansions so much of a relic the system is i bet is fairly subjective. 14 mil ff14 seem to disagree.

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I played and play RS since 2001 they were both exacs and thats how the devs told us... And yes Jagex listened to the fan base after losing mills in profit.

And duh No1 paid its a f2p game with membership that's how u pay

You really have a weird definition of an expac then. For allmost all people they wouldn't count as expacs.

And all games with subscription make you pay for expacs also.

Tbh I'm quite interested how you define an expac then.

'An expansion pack, expansion set, supplement, or simply expansion is an addition to an existing role-playing game, tabletop game, video game or collectible card game. These add-ons usually add new game areas, weapons, objects, characters, or an extended storyline to an already-released game.'Like I said they even advertised it as a expac when they announced the' updates '

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@kharmin.7683 said:

@"lare.5129" said:no way. May be proper remove 1 elite spec. Do merge pof and hot specialization.I'm not sure that this would be possible as the elites from each expansion serve different roles/purposes. As raids were released with HoT, many of the elites were more "group-based" whereas PoF elites were not.so why not marge it ?

Have you tried playing druid in OWPvE?yes, I finish pof story whit druid, the target was make some axhivments, and I close this class wihtput any target, just keep mind "why not"so answer, yes

Or Scourge?

yes. Why not ???

Possible, sure, but I think that you might find that their skill-sets are more tuned for support roles rather than solo.if we talk about owpve - you can choose anytghing, and it is ok.

I see that now to mush elites psec, to mush way. This is ok? may be yes, but I ams sure that increase that number have solf land on legs.

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@"DebraKadabra.5278" said:Not to pile on here, but Mike Z did say that Icebrood Saga--while still technically Season 5 of Living World--would be more like an expansion in the ultimate delivery of the content. We're already seeing that with the new Masteries, which in the past have come as a result of HoT and PoF.

Except we have received Masteries in Living World episodes, so I wouldn't count those as "expansion only content". Same with new maps and QoL updates (Build Templates). These are things we have received in Living World episodes and basic updates. They aren't expansion style content.

Expansion style content would be new Elite Specs, a new World, new Profession/Race, a bunch of new armors, several new maps at once, a completely new feature (like Mounts and Gliding), etc. That is expansion style content.

What we are getting now is your basic Living World content that we have always got with Living World. All the content so far is the same stuff just repeated as with every other Living World episode we have received. A new map with the new episode, a new Mastery to go with that new map, and a piece of the story (which was very short). Build Templates are just a QoL feature that we get ever so often, not expansion worthy.

So far this "saga" has just been another Living World season, not an expansion.

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@Eloc Freidon.5692 said:

@Hannelore.8153 said:I guess you missed the part where ArenaNet had all their projects cancelled by NCSoft and half their staff fired as well.

I guess you missed the part where most of Anet staff wasn't working on GW2 before and the cuts shifted most of the studio to work on this game again. GW2 had a net gain at the cost of unnamed projects.

There is no proof of this, and substantial evidence that one of the projects was GW related.

@Hannelore.8153 said:I guess you missed the part where ArenaNet had all their projects cancelled by NCSoft and half their staff fired as well.

I guess you missed the part where most of Anet staff wasn't working on GW2 before and the cuts shifted most of the studio to work on this game again. GW2 had a net gain at the cost of unnamed projects.

You really believed that spin, huh? Okay.

They went out and said that all their specific content groups have grown into equally full teams. Don't know how any of that is insubstantial or spin.

I don't particularly care how they structure their teams. That's the sort of thing I leave up to the people at ANet to figure out. What I want to know is what is going to keep me playing this game with no new expansion on the horizon?

Expansion level content. The house of cards is built on that phrase. What does it mean? When will we see it? It concerns me that, to my knowledge, we still have no answers for these questions.

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I played and play RS since 2001 they were both exacs and thats how the devs told us... And yes Jagex listened to the fan base after losing mills in profit.

And duh No1 paid its a f2p game with membership that's how u pay

You really have a weird definition of an expac then. For allmost all people they wouldn't count as expacs.

And all games with subscription make you pay for expacs also.

Tbh I'm quite interested how you define an expac then.

'An expansion pack, expansion set, supplement, or simply expansion is an addition to an existing role-playing game, tabletop game, video game or collectible card game. These add-ons usually add new game areas, weapons, objects, characters, or an extended storyline to an already-released game.'Like I said they even advertised it as a expac when they announced the' updates '

So living story is an expac then?It falls within these parameters

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@Dante.1508 said:

@Dante.1508 said:MMo's are dying game market.

Nope.

Read the comments if you don't believe me.

As long as people want to game with others there will be versions of MMOs. Be that in massive open world encounters to more controlled ones that limit people per instance. You have long term franchises that have moved from great single player games (examples: ESO, Fallout) to MMOs in just recent years. You are also seeing games earlier than you had in the past as well as companies share that they are in development and crowd-funding projects are used to finance the projects. One good example:

https://screenrant.com/star-citizen-funding-milestone-250-million/

So there will always be people saying something is going away, it's very trendy these days to have the sky falling in. If anything I see more people playing multiple MMOs now where in the past people would dedicate to just one or two.

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@Stu Grockalot.2937 said:Am I missing something?

Seriously, like why on earth would someone decide to do another LWS episode over an expansion?

we the players as a whole decided no expansion, with our wallets

an expansion = lots of upfront investment, which slowly accumulated with micro transactions

if the devs only do gem store but no new contents, people will just leave the game = decrease in future revenuebut having LW it keeps people to come back every 3-4 months, this helps with reducing number of people permanently leaving the game

while in the background, Anet may have a small team working on the foundations for the next expansion, before putting most resources on the expansionif Anet throws most resources on the expansion from the very beginning, there's going to be like a year of content drought

not to mention that Anet needs to create new core features to accompany the new expansion, a new class would not satisfy the community

there is also a whole lot of house keeping things they need to sort out, like the recent insight into their teams restructure, we are finally getting a dedicated team to look at class balancing, they need to get out of this hole they dug for themselves and fill it up before ending up with the same nightmare balancing for GW1

I would very much prefer Anet spending time to fix up their foundation and just have LW as fillers than keep digging this hole til they can no longer climb out from it

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It could just be the way the story is going, the dragons are growing stale. It is possible that we face jormag and if there is an expansion after the saga, we face a new kind of threat. They might only be doing the season 5 just to finish the dragons and then move onto the new threat in the new expansion.

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@TheGrimm.5624 said:

@Acheron.4731 said:no expansion model will be the downfall of the game.no new elite specs specificallyyou can only play different 'maps' with the same characters so long

This ^^^^^. We need the plan on the next set of elites. Old content can best be re-experienced thru new classes.

I think what we need less elite number of classes. So we absolutely NOT need new elites, no matter if the not come wiht exp, o story line.Aslo, very strange see that new exp can bring useless new elites. And patch nr4 one more row ? and 5 one more row ?? :) ofc not

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one more thing, mostly about "we need new content" talk people who not complete current content.I still not have legend ring, not have all legendary raid sets, not create all leg weapons, and ect ..And I can't say "I neeed new, I do all" if not complete this all.How people can say "I need new class" of not have all current ??

This is the same like people say I need new fractal, but not complete all fractals, not have lhb title, and not have 250/1000kp from 100cm.

So, and about ap. not have 40k ? New content not for you.

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@lare.5129 said:and may be someone don't check, but WE HAVE NEW expansion, we have new mastery Type, new mix of dungeon and raid - strike missions, new maps, buildtemplates and etc.If it was realy bad - people don't write on forums, they downloading something another, forget old, and everyone is happy.

New mastery tupe that's bound to certain map,and has literally no use outside.

Type of mastery you can use only during map meta event,because i don't see reason for staying further on map.

Rewarding system is horrendous,every hour you spend there is hour you lose 15 gold by not doing other maps and other meta events.

There's no new dungeons,for past 7 years.

There's no new raid.

Strike mission is not raid nor dungeon.

Build templates were released while ago,and had nothing to do with any of the content.

By your logic,we have 100 expansions so far.

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