[Vid] Who is arenanet trying to attract with mechanics like this?

[viquing.8254]

@bravan.3876 said:

@viquing.8254 said:@bravan.3876 : who is seriously playing inspiration since 2 years ?

That doesn't matter when talking about the design of that traitline and how much skill ceiling it includes. That something doesn't or do get used never is any prove of it being or not being op, lame, easy or unhealthy mechanic (why ppl don't get that?).Player carry and team carry/conquest usefulness are two different things, they can correlate (like we have enough builds carry the player and are useful in conquest, most metabuilds are like that atm) but it doesn't need to correlate. That Countless NA guy inspiration signet invuln spam build is the best example. It doesn't shine in any role in conquest (can't rly hold caps in duels due to invuln frames, not enough dmg for a roaming or teamfight build, no teamsupport abilities etc), it has nearly zero impact on a match, all this build does well is holding bad players alive longer than they should stay alive. Good WvW and Duelbuild for low skilled ppl want easy wins in duels/ outnumbereds in gamemodes without the need to care for points and specific roles in conquest which need to be filled and no need to care for teamsynergy based on pointcapture mode. Maybe in Stronghold it could work.

What's the purpose of inspiration then.

[shadowpass.4236]

@"Leonidrex.5649" said:cute personal attack.gj you peaked at 1675 with this overpowered no counterplay noob carry machine

LOOOOL

And the truth comes out.

---

Here are some quotes from you in this thread:

1. "we can pretent all we want that its builds that do it but the best players can play on garbo builds and do this stuff."
2. "A new player can easily practice to be reasonable good at preventing getting 1shots, MMO knowlege and google exist, there is a player that took time and effort to learn against player that didnt take time or even try. Player that took time and effort should win."
3. "its actually one of the builds that you have to put some thought process into playing"

But now according to you, Mr. Hypocrite, this "garbo build that actually requires some thought process to play that new players can easily practice to avoid" is a... wait for it...

"overpowered no counterplay noob carry machine."

I can't wait to see you try to backpedal your way out of this one. :joy:

[voltaicbore.8012]

@"shadowpass.4236" said:

I can't wait to see you try to backpedal your way out of this one. :joy:

Mesmer apologists never have to backpedal - they can just stealth and blink away, giggling about "tradeoffs."

[Stand The Wall.6987]

every class either has a build like this or close enough.its the ez high might stacks, stacking damage mods that are meant for pve, broken and forgotten coefficients, etc. all of this has been said before a thousand times. it really comes down to how damage is done in this game, that's whats broken. it was designed in a way it seems to me that was only ever meant for pve.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

I love seeing this garbage, good representation of the garbage state pvp is in and to add the mesmer players defending this garbage is a good representation of alot of the gw2 pvp community lmao it literally can't surprise any one that this games pvp is the garbage heap it is.

[Leonidrex.5649]

@shadowpass.4236 said:

@"Leonidrex.5649" said:cute personal attack.gj you peaked at 1675 with this overpowered no counterplay noob carry machine

LOOOOL

And the truth comes out.

---

Here are some quotes from you in this thread:

1. "we can pretent all we want that its builds that do it but the best players can play on garbo builds and do this stuff."
2. "A new player can easily practice to be reasonable good at preventing getting 1shots, MMO knowlege and google exist, there is a player that took time and effort to learn against player that didnt take time or even try. Player that took time and effort should win."
3. "its actually one of the builds that you have to put some thought process into playing"

But now according to you, Mr. Hypocrite, this "garbo build that actually requires some thought process to play that new players can easily practice to avoid" is a... wait for it...

"overpowered no counterplay noob carry machine."

I can't wait to see you try to backpedal your way out of this one. :joy:

I think you are incapable of reading sarcasm. I was trying to be as obvious with it as possible, guess im not as good at it as I thought.Apology.

[shadowpass.4236]

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@shadowpass.4236 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:cute personal attack.gj you peaked at 1675 with this overpowered no counterplay noob carry machine

LOOOOL

And the truth comes out.

---

Here are some quotes from you in this thread:

1. "we can pretent all we want that its builds that do it but the best players can play on garbo builds and do this stuff."
2. "A new player can easily practice to be reasonable good at preventing getting 1shots, MMO knowlege and google exist, there is a player that took time and effort to learn against player that didnt take time or even try. Player that took time and effort should win."
3. "its actually one of the builds that you have to put some thought process into playing"

But now according to you, Mr. Hypocrite, this "garbo build that actually requires some thought process to play that new players can easily practice to avoid" is a... wait for it...

"overpowered no counterplay noob carry machine."

I can't wait to see you try to backpedal your way out of this one. :joy:

I think you are incapable of reading sarcasm. I was trying to be as obvious with it as possible, guess im not as good at it as I thought.Apology.

Sarcasm is generally lost over text. Next time use /s at the end of whatever you type. :+1:

[Leonidrex.5649]

oh and btw, i want this shit gone. I just dont wanna lose everything alongside it.anet has been ripping feathers from mesmer for a while now, not much of them left im afraid.

[shadowpass.4236]

@Leonidrex.5649 said:oh and btw, i want this kitten gone. I just dont wanna lose everything alongside it.anet has been ripping feathers from mesmer for a while now, not much of them left im afraid.

Anet has been nerfing mesmer for a while yet it still has the strongest condition builds in ranked/tournaments, core mantras are very strong, and chronobunker is still very tanky. Also, both power and condition mirage can be played very effectively at high ratings.

Mesmer is more than fine.

[Leonidrex.5649]

@shadowpass.4236 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:oh and btw, i want this kitten gone. I just dont wanna lose everything alongside it.anet has been ripping feathers from mesmer for a while now, not much of them left im afraid.

Anet has been nerfing mesmer for a while yet it still has the strongest condition builds in ranked/tournaments, core mantras are very strong, and chronobunker is still very tanky. Also, both power and condition mirage can be played very effectively at high ratings.

Mesmer is

more

than fine.

yes condi mirage is the only if not one of the only viable condi builds is the game, kinda scary ye?chronobunker is still very tanky -> ? what does it have to do with anything? it can be tanky all it wants, its garbage.

[RisenHowl.2419]

damn, i love the people defending them lmfao. I had no problems killing one of them when i got them alone. The problem is when there's 3 of them sharing stealth.

real quick, what class can handle 3 burst mes slamming them? Defense spellbreaker, until endure pain runs out and you pop in 1s? Another mantra mes, that you can stealth with and maybe down one before the other two 1 shot you? Please tell me more about how i should only play unranked with a 5 man premade that's running a perfect comp, that's more reasonable than saying 'holy shit, this mechanic shouldn't exist'.

'if you played properly you could've beaten them' Yeah, they definitely couldn't just burst the whole team as they come out. You know, exactly like they're doing in the video.

[Swagg.9236]

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@"RisenHowl.2419" said:Let me preface this by saying yes, i understand it's a meme build. It's easy to kill when you have invuln for the initial burst. Just Dodge. Only bad players die against power mes. Bring a reveal. Watch the minimap. etc.

GW2 pvp player population is at an all time low, imagine someone starting out in pvp running into this. Why on earth would they come back?

what makes you think that starting player will face players that can pull this off?you ran into 5man premade, they could play kitten like 5x holo and steamroll you harder, exept you wouldnt even be able to fight back becouse the 1-2 skills you would somehow manage to land would deal 15% of their hp instead of 40%.you kept running out of spawn into 3 of them repeatedly instead of leaving with team what did you expect?TBH if you played it properly you could actually win the game.Ah not to mention they propably were communicating unlike your team. Sometimes its better to coordinate instead of complaining yes?

You can't beat a team of 5 spike mesmers unless you have the right comp. Moreover, if you have any remotely weak links in the comp match-up vs 5 spike mesmers, it will be as if you're playing 3v5. This means that the onus is entirely on the non-mesmer team to play the "correct" build rather than to just "outplay" the 5 mesmers with positioning, timing and gamesense.

As fragile as spike mesmers can techincally be, they still have stealth, a blink, and built-in, instant invuln baked into their builds. This, combined with mantra's spammability, low attack CDs and the fact that much of their high damage can be used from range, means that they aren't something that you can really juke while in combat. If you want to fight them, you have to somehow survive and burn through their damage negation despite the fact that they can absolutely kill nearly any build within the duration of their damage negation (and often have an out with a teleport or stealth should something bad happen). These sort of mechanics entirely remove the skill factors of non-turn-based combat, turning the match into more of a card game scenario in which hard counters established prior to combat will be the ultimate deciders in who wins. It's pretty degenerate.

[Marxx.5021]

This is the result of a few years PvE class design by guys who give a fuck on competitive players.

[bravan.3876]

@viquing.8254 said:

@bravan.3876 said:

@viquing.8254 said:@bravan.3876 : who is seriously playing inspiration since 2 years ?

That doesn't matter when talking about the design of that traitline and how much skill ceiling it includes. That something doesn't or do get used never is any prove of it being or not being op, lame, easy or unhealthy mechanic (why ppl don't get that?).Player carry and team carry/conquest usefulness are two different things, they can correlate (like we have enough builds carry the player and are useful in conquest, most metabuilds are like that atm) but it doesn't need to correlate. That Countless NA guy inspiration signet invuln spam build is the best example. It doesn't shine in any role in conquest (can't rly hold caps in duels due to invuln frames, not enough dmg for a roaming or teamfight build, no teamsupport abilities etc), it has nearly zero impact on a match, all this build does well is holding bad players alive longer than they should stay alive. Good WvW and Duelbuild for low skilled ppl want easy wins in duels/ outnumbereds in gamemodes without the need to care for points and specific roles in conquest which need to be filled and no need to care for teamsynergy based on pointcapture mode. Maybe in Stronghold it could work.

What's the purpose of inspiration then.

I don't get this question, i just explained it. Also it is a low skill ceiling line just waiting for some meta changes to become relevant again and then provides another low skill ceiling build that will be useful in conquest, like we had during HoT. From HoT release to PoF release no Mesmer meta was running without Inspiration ever and that even after it got nerfed mid HoT. We are not save from that happens again and that for all classes, as long as low skill ceiling traitlines exist. I would rework almost all core defensive traitlines into something less passive and with higher skill ceiling, with more opportunity costs in dmg for the only active defense gets provided by them, also delete all unhealthy mechanics like PU/ Last Stand (what even seems to bug, it provides an immune to cc what is not intended when i read the tooltip, it should work like a stunbreak not like an immune so interrupt traits work and the warrior gets cced for like 0,01 sec but then automatically stunbreaks) not only Mesmers. Otherwise you will always have the problem on all classes, that you nerf one specific build and ppl just switch to the next lame kitten.

[Stallic.2397]

Ooh, 5 spike mesmers vs. 5 Fire Weavers! Now that's a video I wanna see

[Leonidrex.5649]

@Stallic.2397 said:Ooh, 5 spike mesmers vs. 5 Fire Weavers! Now that's a video I wanna see

make it 5 deadeyes, clown fiest ensures!

[SeikeNz.3526]

@Stallic.2397 said:Ooh, 5 spike mesmers vs. 5 Fire Weavers! Now that's a video I wanna see

the weavers will win since they can evade everything

[Leonidrex.5649]

@Swagg.9236 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@"RisenHowl.2419" said:Let me preface this by saying yes, i understand it's a meme build. It's easy to kill when you have invuln for the initial burst. Just Dodge. Only bad players die against power mes. Bring a reveal. Watch the minimap. etc.

GW2 pvp player population is at an all time low, imagine someone starting out in pvp running into this. Why on earth would they come back?

what makes you think that starting player will face players that can pull this off?you ran into 5man premade, they could play kitten like 5x holo and steamroll you harder, exept you wouldnt even be able to fight back becouse the 1-2 skills you would somehow manage to land would deal 15% of their hp instead of 40%.you kept running out of spawn into 3 of them repeatedly instead of leaving with team what did you expect?TBH if you played it properly you could actually win the game.Ah not to mention they propably were communicating unlike your team. Sometimes its better to coordinate instead of complaining yes?

You can't beat a team of 5 spike mesmers unless you have the right comp. Moreover, if you have any remotely weak links in the comp match-up vs 5 spike mesmers, it will be as if you're playing 3v5. This means that the onus is entirely on the non-mesmer team to play the "correct" build rather than to just "outplay" the 5 mesmers with positioning, timing and gamesense.

As fragile as spike mesmers can techincally be, they still have stealth, a blink, and built-in, instant invuln baked into their builds. This, combined with mantra's spammability, low attack CDs and the fact that much of their high damage can be used from range, means that they aren't something that you can really juke while in combat. If you want to fight them, you have to somehow survive and burn through their damage negation despite the fact that they can absolutely kill nearly any build within the duration of their damage negation (and often have an out with a teleport or stealth should something bad happen). These sort of mechanics entirely remove the skill factors of non-turn-based combat, turning the match into more of a card game scenario in which hard counters established prior to combat will be the ultimate deciders in who wins. It's pretty degenerate.

oh no, we have shit comp against their comp. delete mesmer.you think this would look any different if they had 5x holo? it propably would since you know, they actually won the match the least he could do is put tanky amulet on.if i take condi mes against 3 firebrands I dont go on the forum complaining about it, 2 holos and this match would look very different.not one of them took a build that can deal with that, lets play 5 sd thiefs into 5 warriors and then whine thief is bad.

[Leonidrex.5649]

@bravan.3876 said:

@viquing.8254 said:

@bravan.3876 said:

@viquing.8254 said:@bravan.3876 : who is seriously playing inspiration since 2 years ?

That doesn't matter when talking about the design of that traitline and how much skill ceiling it includes. That something doesn't or do get used never is any prove of it being or not being op, lame, easy or unhealthy mechanic (why ppl don't get that?).Player carry and team carry/conquest usefulness are two different things, they can correlate (like we have enough builds carry the player and are useful in conquest, most metabuilds are like that atm) but it doesn't need to correlate. That Countless NA guy inspiration signet invuln spam build is the best example. It doesn't shine in any role in conquest (can't rly hold caps in duels due to invuln frames, not enough dmg for a roaming or teamfight build, no teamsupport abilities etc), it has nearly zero impact on a match, all this build does well is holding bad players alive longer than they should stay alive. Good WvW and Duelbuild for low skilled ppl want easy wins in duels/ outnumbereds in gamemodes without the need to care for points and specific roles in conquest which need to be filled and no need to care for teamsynergy based on pointcapture mode. Maybe in Stronghold it could work.

What's the purpose of inspiration then.

I don't get this question, i just explained it. Also it is a low skill ceiling line just waiting for some meta changes to become relevant again and then provides another low skill ceiling build that will be useful in conquest, like we had during HoT. From HoT release to PoF release no Mesmer meta was running without Inspiration ever and that even after it got nerfed mid HoT. We are not save from that happens again and that for all classes, as long as low skill ceiling traitlines exist. I would rework almost all core defensive traitlines into something less passive and with higher skill ceiling, with more opportunity costs in dmg for the only active defense gets provided by them, also delete all unhealthy mechanics like PU/ Last Stand (what even seems to bug, it provides an immune to cc what is not intended when i read the tooltip, it should work like a stunbreak not like an immune so interrupt traits work and the warrior gets cced for like 0,01 sec but then automatically stunbreaks) not only Mesmers. Otherwise you will always have the problem on all classes, that you nerf one specific build and ppl just switch to the next lame kitten.

ok man, chaos and inspiration is unskilled. then what the fuck is mesmer supposed to defend themself with?16k HP, low armor, no protection, shit sustain?then all you can do is glass cannon and hope for the best, oh guess what, without stealth combo cant be landed against someone with fingers.

[UNOwen.7132]

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@ugrakarma.9416 said:simple: never a decent game allow 1 shot class.

define decent?every shooter is a 1shot, there is LoL one of the biggest games?

Shooters are an entirely different paradigm, while League does not have a lot of builds with this little counterplay (and the ones it does are accepted as huge mistakes and should be reworked at some point).

[Widmo.3186]

kek

[Leonidrex.5649]

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@ugrakarma.9416 said:simple: never a decent game allow 1 shot class.

define decent?every shooter is a 1shot, there is LoL one of the biggest games?

Shooters are an entirely different paradigm, while League does not have a lot of builds with this little counterplay (and the ones it does are accepted as huge mistakes and should be reworked at some point).

?? entire game relies on 1shoting people, every single viable midlaner is a 1shot build, meta evolved and thats how it is right now.

[viquing.8254]

@bravan.3876 said:

@viquing.8254 said:

@bravan.3876 said:

@viquing.8254 said:@bravan.3876 : who is seriously playing inspiration since 2 years ?

That doesn't matter when talking about the design of that traitline and how much skill ceiling it includes. That something doesn't or do get used never is any prove of it being or not being op, lame, easy or unhealthy mechanic (why ppl don't get that?).Player carry and team carry/conquest usefulness are two different things, they can correlate (like we have enough builds carry the player and are useful in conquest, most metabuilds are like that atm) but it doesn't need to correlate. That Countless NA guy inspiration signet invuln spam build is the best example. It doesn't shine in any role in conquest (can't rly hold caps in duels due to invuln frames, not enough dmg for a roaming or teamfight build, no teamsupport abilities etc), it has nearly zero impact on a match, all this build does well is holding bad players alive longer than they should stay alive. Good WvW and Duelbuild for low skilled ppl want easy wins in duels/ outnumbereds in gamemodes without the need to care for points and specific roles in conquest which need to be filled and no need to care for teamsynergy based on pointcapture mode. Maybe in Stronghold it could work.

What's the purpose of inspiration then.

I don't get this question, i just explained it. Also it is a low skill ceiling line just waiting for some meta changes to become relevant again and then provides another low skill ceiling build that will be useful in conquest, like we had during HoT. From HoT release to PoF release no Mesmer meta was running without Inspiration ever and that even after it got nerfed mid HoT. We are not save from that happens again and that for all classes, as long as low skill ceiling traitlines exist. I would rework almost all core defensive traitlines into something less passive and with higher skill ceiling, with more opportunity costs in dmg for the only active defense gets provided by them, also delete all unhealthy mechanics like PU/ Last Stand (what even seems to bug, it provides an immune to cc what is not intended when i read the tooltip, it should work like a stunbreak not like an immune so interrupt traits work and the warrior gets cced for like 0,01 sec but then automatically stunbreaks) not only Mesmers. Otherwise you will always have the problem on all classes, that you nerf one specific build and ppl just switch to the next lame kitten.

What I mean is what did you want concretely as traits in inspiration ?And on a side note, it's harder to use inspiration trying to sustain burst build than to survive by putting pressure with another damage traitline.Mean condi clear on shatter, distortion on signet seems pretty active imo and I doubt someone play illusionary inspiration or mental defense.You know that player always play the easiest way right (low ceiling.) and it will always be the case on every class ?

[BadMed.3846]

pointlessDeleted

[Vagrant.7206]

Anybody else notice that one of their guild names was "Can't Spell Mesmer Without [MEME]"?

Play like this is the precise reason why there are were traits like auto-elixir S on most classes, to prevent this kind of degenerate play. But everyone screamed about passives, so here we are.