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Why do so few people care about figthing?


Sansar.1302

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Seams like most player in wvw only want dailies or karma train and not fight and absolutely only fight with advantage.Takes most fun out of the game as i only care about fighting and its so little fights these days, and if you get a fight you only get adds to the point that they kill you regardless of their and youre skill.What mindset do these players have ? dont they understand that they will never get better if they use the number crutch. ( and grp spec is a bad reason why, gotten many solo kills on my way back to squad )If I not get swarmed might on a good day as few as 30 kills over several hours :(

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the real fight is in spvp.

if u know what you are doing or well if u r at least gold in spvp u should never die in a fair fight in wvw.

there are too much stats , un nerfed traits , perm stealth and disengage tools.

i was wondering why rune of speed is expensive since it's garbo in spvp then i found out oh ..... for wvwers

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@Sansar.1302 said:i only care about fightingSo, one could also question your mindset as well. Seems like some ppl only care about map coverage / objectives and others only care about fights.

@Sansar.1302 said:Seams like most player in wvw only want dailies or karma trainPlaying for map coverage / objectives is not just simply PPT. The zerg gets more / better fights, because „PPT“ guys“:

  • give you open-field scout infos, so the zerg gets more fights
  • keep enemy structures low-tier, so the zerg gets more and better fights, instead of fighting vs. arrow carts for an hour
  • upgrade own structures, so the zerg has enough tim to arrive in time (or gather enough defenders) before the enemy flips it and ports away
  • waypoints: less travel time -> more time for fighting
  • supps: you dont have to gather supps -> more time for fighting
  • bloodlust

Doesnt that make you happy?

@Sansar.1302 said:dont they understand that they will never get better if they use the number crutch.Dont you understand that they dont have the time to become some kind of fight elite?

I'm no fan of this ganker meta these days, but since the beginning WvW shines with having that big scale component, instead of other stand-alone PvP games that have better balance, more content etc but only 5 vs 5 or 12 vs 12. So its not that suprising that ppl stack in groups for the fights.

Additionally, GW2 is heavily focussed on PvE, storymode, casual MMO. Most ppl only jump into WvW from time to time, otherwise they (me) get bored quite fast. And most of this limited WvW playtime its hard to get zerg fights (lag-free) or fair non-gank fights with equal numbers. So, I wouldn't expect most of the players to be good fighters or using meta builds or executing clean synergistic performance with their teammates in a idealistic "healer + damage dealer + boon corrupt" team composition. So, its not that suprising that ppl stack in groups, to have a chance vs. the fight elite, that logs in only for the fights.

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@Liza.2758 said:the real fight is in spvp.

if u know what you are doing or well if u r at least gold in spvp u should never die in a fair fight in wvw.

there are too much stats , un nerfed traits , perm stealth and disengage tools.

i was wondering why rune of speed is expensive since it's garbo in spvp then i found out oh ..... for wvwers

More stats also means there is alooot more dmg going around. I find it alot more difficult to disengage and survive smallscale battles in wvw than in pvp. Alot of it having to do with ppl in wvw speccing more into mobility than dmg, because stats give them enough dmg to kill.(im not using a stealth class)

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@Liza.2758 said:the real fight is in spvp.

if u know what you are doing or well if u r at least gold in spvp u should never die in a fair fight in wvw.

there are too much stats , un nerfed traits , perm stealth and disengage tools.

i was wondering why rune of speed is expensive since it's garbo in spvp then i found out oh ..... for wvwers

Currently in gold 3 but sPvP is about point, youre team can have 0 kills and stil win.So for me the real gw2 pvp is wvw

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  • give you open-field scout infos, so the zerg gets more fights
  • keep enemy structures low-tier, so the zerg gets more and better fights, instead of fighting vs. arrow carts for an hour
  • upgrade own structures, so the zerg has enough tim to arrive in time (or gather enough defenders) before the enemy flips it and ports away
  • waypoints: less travel time -> more time for fighting
  • supps: you dont have to gather supps -> more time for fighting
  • bloodlust

I mean IT sounds like everything should involve around the part of making the zerg more productive. And it really grinds my Gear this occurs

Alot of time i stepped on the ego of oversensitive zerglings for a callout with slightly wrong intell or 'pulling the ewp to late on home bl' while its the first action i can do to scout

Yeah in production process your biggest/most expensive machine should be the most productive and least idle thus have most efficiënt amount of people...ironicly some people interprete this as 'need everyone on tag' and wonder why they loose the game

Aaah who AM i kidding? Strategy in this game died years ago

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@Shadowresli.3782 said:because there is no fighting in wvw, it died alongside GWEN.that spamfest of condis and boons, dancing around one another for minutes when two bigger groups meet, then a quick spike, death of one group and repeat.it's unsatisfying and boring, and can't be called fighting

It's because of the spam of 1 hit kills with cheap mobility invuln and stealth and billions of CC flying at you.

In world of warcraft, there is more counterplay in their PVP.

It's like that video was shown and discussed in the SPVP forum where the necro got one-shotted from stealth by a mesmer who cced and blew them up in like 3-4 sec.

How is that good for the game and the players when you cannot react to something and get ganked before you can even use an ability?

Sure he could have not gone alone that's true, but this is generally why I don't want to play SPVP or WVW in GW2 along with staying away from the game in general. Design is terrible in guild wars 2. Some PVP builds have too much toxic CC mobility sustain and damage combined and way too much spam, and the only way to combat those classes is literally to have as much as them to be able to stand up to them. Either every class in SPVP and WVW gets nerfed to Hot levels or previous levels, or the game is in dire trouble. (This includes Dealing with AOE spam in WVW Btw)

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It's bc anet has done a poor job of defining the mode. They try to leave it open-ended and provide open world pvp, gvg and smallscale/roaming in the same box, which satisfies none of them. It's entirely possible that the reason there's not more fighting in wvw is that wvw isn't designed for fighting . . .

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@Sansar.1302 said:Seams like most player in wvw only want dailies or karma train and not fight and absolutely only fight with advantage.Takes most fun out of the game as i only care about fighting and its so little fights these days, and if you get a fight you only get adds to the point that they kill you regardless of their and youre skill.What mindset do these players have ? dont they understand that they will never get better if they use the number crutch. ( and grp spec is a bad reason why, gotten many solo kills on my way back to squad )If I not get swarmed might on a good day as few as 30 kills over several hours :(

huhu, i want ppl to care about organized fights but so few do. so few even in my guild. @,..,@ ahuahuahuhauhauhauhuahauhaua

it's because it requires effort if you're few and that effort drains, while eophoric and if you lose; team morale actually goes down. i've resorted to jedi mindtricks to keep my team afloat

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@"Sansar.1302" said:Why do so few people care about figthing?

Way back in the day, there was a time when people stopped playing for objectives and declared, "We only play for fights".Buoyed by an air of exuberance and the cult of personality that sprung up around charismatic leaders, a revolution happened in WvW. Scouts and objectives were ignored and giant zergs clashed across fields of the borderlands.It turned out that after one side dominated the other for a period of time, they would lose a person here or there, people took the opportunity of being at spawn to go and do something IRL. They would lose people as they lost fights. Players would leave, zergs would shrink and be uncompetitive.People didn't like being repeatedly wiped, they felt they couldn't compete.The big problem came with POF. When the damage is so unforgivingly high, dominance by one side becomes absolute. Fights became one-pushes.With no hope of good fights, the charismatic commanders lost interest. Their cults fell apart.That's why so few people care about fighting. In a word: POF.

Let's not [edit]forget how nasty the Fights people could be to their own teammates: Supposedly "hardcore" WvWers played for an hour or two a night, whereas dedicated, vigilant scouts who played for vastly longer were laughingly demonised as "casuals".I'm getting off-topic now so I'll stop.

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@Svarty.8019 said:

@"Sansar.1302" said:Why do so few people care about figthing?

Way back in the day, there was a time when people stopped playing for objectives and declared, "We only play for fights".Buoyed by an air of exuberance and the cult of personality that sprung up around charismatic leaders, a revolution happened in WvW. Scouts and objectives were ignored and giant zergs clashed across fields of the borderlands.It turned out that after one side dominated the other for a period of time, they would lose a person here or there, people took the opportunity of being at spawn to go and do something IRL. They would lose people as they lost fights. Players would leave, zergs would shrink and be uncompetitive.People didn't like being repeatedly wiped, they felt they couldn't compete.The big problem came with POF. When the damage is so unforgivingly high, dominance by one side becomes absolute. Fights became one-pushes.With no hope of good fights, the charismatic commanders lost interest. Their cults fell apart.That's why so few people care about fighting. In a word: POF.

Let's not remember how nasty the Fights people could be to their own teammates: Supposedly "hardcore" WvWers played for an hour or two a night, whereas dedicated, vigilant scouts who played for vastly longer were laughingly demonised as "casuals".I'm getting off-topic now so I'll stop.

the we only play for fights thing came about because we were too poor to buy siege. :P it was an excuse.

true fights = organized i challenge you, lets meet in os/arena/eotm. :3

skrims are fun though, it's like - hey bro, want to do a play date?

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@Sovereign.1093 said:

@"Sansar.1302" said:Why do so few people care about figthing?

Way back in the day, there was a time when people stopped playing for objectives and declared, "We only play for fights".Buoyed by an air of exuberance and the cult of personality that sprung up around charismatic leaders, a revolution happened in WvW. Scouts and objectives were ignored and giant zergs clashed across fields of the borderlands.It turned out that after one side dominated the other for a period of time, they would lose a person here or there, people took the opportunity of being at spawn to go and do something IRL. They would lose people as they lost fights. Players would leave, zergs would shrink and be uncompetitive.People didn't like being repeatedly wiped, they felt they couldn't compete.The big problem came with POF. When the damage is so unforgivingly high, dominance by one side becomes absolute. Fights became one-pushes.With no hope of good fights, the charismatic commanders lost interest. Their cults fell apart.That's why so few people care about fighting. In a word: POF.

Let's not remember how nasty the Fights people could be to their own teammates: Supposedly "hardcore" WvWers played for an hour or two a night, whereas dedicated, vigilant scouts who played for vastly longer were laughingly demonised as "casuals".I'm getting off-topic now so I'll stop.

the we only play for fights thing came about because we were too poor to buy siege. :P it was an excuse.

true fights = organized i challenge you, lets meet in os/arena/eotm. :3

skrims are fun though, it's like - hey bro, want to do a play date?

Playing for fights came about because of Glicko Hell. The tiers were locked and you played against the same opponents month after month and the results were not going to change so commanders started to talk to each other and setup open field fights which eventually led to GvG. It was the golden age of WvW.

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@Swamurabi.7890 said:

@"Sansar.1302" said:Why do so few people care about figthing?

Way back in the day, there was a time when people stopped playing for objectives and declared, "We only play for fights".Buoyed by an air of exuberance and the cult of personality that sprung up around charismatic leaders, a revolution happened in WvW. Scouts and objectives were ignored and giant zergs clashed across fields of the borderlands.It turned out that after one side dominated the other for a period of time, they would lose a person here or there, people took the opportunity of being at spawn to go and do something IRL. They would lose people as they lost fights. Players would leave, zergs would shrink and be uncompetitive.People didn't like being repeatedly wiped, they felt they couldn't compete.The big problem came with POF. When the damage is so unforgivingly high, dominance by one side becomes absolute. Fights became one-pushes.With no hope of good fights, the charismatic commanders lost interest. Their cults fell apart.That's why so few people care about fighting. In a word: POF.

Let's not remember how nasty the Fights people could be to their own teammates: Supposedly "hardcore" WvWers played for an hour or two a night, whereas dedicated, vigilant scouts who played for vastly longer were laughingly demonised as "casuals".I'm getting off-topic now so I'll stop.

the we only play for fights thing came about because we were too poor to buy siege. :P it was an excuse.

true fights = organized i challenge you, lets meet in os/arena/eotm. :3

skrims are fun though, it's like - hey bro, want to do a play date?

Playing for fights came about because of Glicko Hell. The tiers were locked and you played against the same opponents month after month and the results were not going to change so commanders started to talk to each other and setup open field fights which eventually led to GvG. It was the golden age of WvW.

well since they killed tournaments we didnt really have much to do except gvg. and like i said, organized fights. because some or most of us didnt do pve and couldnt afford all the siege.

hell, we did daily jump puzzles for siege and had a community siege stash.

gvg was fun. but not as fun when wvw was tournaments.

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@Jayden Reese.9542 said:Because most of you solo dudes looking for fights only run some op or cheeze build and spend your entire day jumping players and either killing them quickly or god forbid you get a good fight and start losing you easily disengage and mobility off because it wasn't an easy fight. You run w ascended food 18 plus 5 infusions a pure single target pvp spec which is nerfed in spvp so you can only run it in wvw. Your day is 30-1 record except the times you get adds and that's so unfair because they all should line up and 1v1 and get slaughtered so you cry no one wants to fight. NO it's we play the mode the way it designed to with taking and defending objectives killing whoever but eventually we learn the guys that run the instant they losing and just ignore them or team up to jump them because they constantly attack newer or average skill players all day. Looking at eb guy gutz guy and any ie member and dozens of others we learn are a waste of our time unless nothing going on or we bored

oh those super ranger team with nike shoes. @,..@ hehe. no hate they a pain but they, i believe is all they got at a certain time zone.

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@Sansar.1302 said:Seams like most player in wvw only want dailies or karma train and not fight and absolutely only fight with advantage.Takes most fun out of the game as i only care about fighting and its so little fights these days, and if you get a fight you only get adds to the point that they kill you regardless of their and youre skill.What mindset do these players have ? dont they understand that they will never get better if they use the number crutch. ( and grp spec is a bad reason why, gotten many solo kills on my way back to squad )If I not get swarmed might on a good day as few as 30 kills over several hours :(

Because a lot of casual and PvE minded people have come into WvW as the older or more fight and skill oriented people have left since balance and anything close to it for WvW and even sPvP have been totally ignored for years.

You only care about fights, but I could say the same thing in that I only care about roaming and 1vs1 fights, WvW is more than just fights, and it is more than just the structures, however structures are easy and have a bigger reward than fighting another blob. You also have two blob types, pug and guild or discord required blobs, after a fight or two the pug blob will run almost always from the guild blob as they know they are going to wipe because they are not coordinated, unless they out number the other group 2 to 1. It might seem a bit chicken to do this and not learn to fight, however, you have to again go back to the types of people in WvW now that if a pugmander wipes 2-3 times, the pugs will start leaving, and then their numbers will drop big time and make it even harder for them, as most people are fair weathers. Back in the day, we used to fight almost non-stopped in a keep for hours on end and people would stick around...That just doesn't happen anymore.

Another reason there was a shift before HoT and PoF we had many fight guilds, however back then, they would actually break into towers and keeps, for fights, they kept the zerg busy while the pugs on the map would kill lord. Over time, those pugs would get mad because the fight guild would push out on the other zerg or go to where orange swords show up, and the pugs end up getting wiped, you would see many people cry out in map chat shaming the fight guild for this, because they got killed and the fight guild didn't help kill lord. After enough of this, the fight guilds started running tagless so this would not happen. However, people liked the protection the fight guild offered, so people would still follow them and actively call out where they were at on the map for others to find. Even with this, people would still shame them for not helping kill lord in one situation, even though they were getting free caps for hours before due to the fight guild. Then those fight guilds started to get more and more salty as people would call out for them to leave the map etc etc, so fight guilds would actively troll the pugs, by acting like they were pushing, then drop a veil and turn backwards while the pugs pushed and wiped. From there relations with the normal community and the fight guilds only got worse, HoT and PoF came out and balance was no where to be found and those guilds started to leave. The fight guilds today are nothing close to what they were back then, skill level from pugs to guild blobs is pretty big today, however skill level of guild blobs today to old school fight guilds is just as big.

What I really don't understand is everyone wants to force others to play how they want them to. While myself, a person who mostly roams, if I happen to want to run with a blob that day, if they are going for only fights, I focus on killing with them...However if they just want to ktrain, I help with capping. If I don't want to do either of those, I can go do my own thing, or tag up myself for how I want to play and those who want to play the same way will join.

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@Dawdler.8521 said:Because people keep putting WvW into two separate boxes, focusing on bUt Ma FiGHts and have forgotten that objectives and fighting are integrally connected.

Its like looking at apple pie and wondering why so few care about eating dry crust.

I think the op was referring to fighting people, not siege.

Jokes aside, fights are a mess. Class balance & design is not tailored to competitive pvp combat. Large scale fights have far too much lag and aoe, and small scale fights are filled with some pretty dumb meme builds. As a player who was only ever interested in fights, i can completely understand why people avoid them.

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@Sansar.1302 said:Seams like most player in wvw only want dailies or karma train and not fight and absolutely only fight with advantage.Takes most fun out of the game as i only care about fighting and its so little fights these days, and if you get a fight you only get adds to the point that they kill you regardless of their and youre skill.What mindset do these players have ? dont they understand that they will never get better if they use the number crutch. ( and grp spec is a bad reason why, gotten many solo kills on my way back to squad )If I not get swarmed might on a good day as few as 30 kills over several hours :(

This is why there was so many roaming complaints and why the majority of wvw's like warclaw. A lot of wvw players that liked to engage other players outside of zergs left after warclaw cuz it's far to easy to avoid fights in a mode meant to be open world pvp. People just boot around on their mount and join their zerg or do dailies. The rest of the dynamic instances are mostly dead now in wvw.

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