Let's Talk About PvP Balance

[Nugnfutz.8245]

I'd like to see an AVOID PRE-MADE checkbox in unranked. As a casual PvPer - I don't find it particularly fun nor balanced to get trounced by groups testing out their new specs and tactics...

[Kuma.1503]

I suggest not making the same mistake that WoW did. Pruning mechanics and nerfing outliers sounds good on paper, but do so willy-nilly and you'll just bring about a reverse power creep. We see this in WoW where you have classes with literal one button rotations (Arcane Mage) being complained about because they have too many tools. Not because they're overloaded, but because they're one of the very few ranged classes that can still kite after others lost all their mobility.

Instead of repeatedly nerfing outliers and bringing on a reverse power creep. I suggest tweaking builds which encourage degenerate gameplay styles.

Weaver's constant evades, heals, and condi applications are obnoxious, but they have the trade off of a low health pool, low armor value, and the need to get up close and personal. Strong, but not degenerate.

Power Mesmer, though not the strongest build, thrives on popping out of stealth and 100-0'ing foes before they can reasonably be expected to react. Mesmer has counterplay in that you can easily avoid the burst if you know it's coming, but stealth removes this option, leaving you with the choices of:

Hope the mesmer messes up his burst

Hope he gets unlucky with crits

Pray you have a passive trait to save you.

Power mesmer is a build that i would call mediocre in terms of strength but very degenerate. I suggest tweaks to classes like this. It doesn't have to be a nerf. A net neutral change that encourages a more healthy gameplay pattern would be ideal in this case.

I would also suggest looking at fixing some fundamental issues with competetive:

time to kill in general is much too low.

Condis should not be as bursty as they are. Condi specs should focus on dealing damage over time while kiting to allow those Dots to tick.

Going back to the weaver example. If you were to nerf them, Weaver could stand to lose a bit of base damage on their condis, but gain increased duration to compensate. A change like that would fit their playstyle of being a slippery sustain machine that wears you down over time.

Bruiser-ish builds should not be able to "One shot". If you're running Demolisher amulet, a few defensive traits, and some defensive utilities to let you disengage if you make a mistake, you should not be able to one shot. Builds like this should specialize in scrapping it out with foes, dishing out enough damage to kill foes with a well timed stun after the target has been softened up, but not enough to consitently 100-0.

Going back to the example of Power mesmer, the current meta build uses a marauder amulet, and has the luxury of running the Mirage traitline. Mirage gives them access to plenty of defensive utilities from mirage mirrors, to mirage cloak, to regen. A build like this should be less busty, but should also be more useful in an extended fight.

Changes like this are what I'd suggest.

Edit: Also for the love of all things Guild Wars, BUFF DRUID.

[torben.1532]

Actually water weaver is just like scrapper pre nerfs, can‘t lose node and basically can’t die. This will only get worse after balance patch

[Psycoprophet.8107]

@torben.1532 said:Actually water weaver is just like scrapper pre nerfs, can‘t lose node and basically can’t die. This will only get worse after balance patch

This^

[ZDragon.3046]

@Kuma.1503 said:I mildly agree with you to an extent but no some outliers need to be removed from the game the extreme ones need to go. For example rampage hainvg cc skills doing 8-12k damage that can be chained together is not ok that needs to not be a thing. Am I happy about how they changed it no but the change IS needed.

Mesmer staff (utility weapon) having hella damage with low risk as a defenisve evaseive playstyle is not ok.

Also yes buff druid but dont make it where they can just be selfish with the sustain/healing buff increase if you are going to buff it make it so that its buffs are mostly about playing a bigger role on abilities used on allies not itself.

[Lighter.5631]

gw2 need some thing that can break the death ball that is fb+nec.spellbreaker i assume was supposed to do that, but nah, it's still a side noder that does nothing else since 2012

[jessiestiles.9437]

You nerfed the damage classes but left the tank classes alone. Gonna be a constant drag dealing with the FB and eles now. No more pvp for a while. GG

[Kuma.1503]

@ZDragon.3046 said:I mildly agree with you to an extent but no some outliers need to be removed from the game the extreme ones need to go. For example rampage hainvg cc skills doing 8-12k damage that can be chained together is not ok that needs to not be a thing. Am I happy about how they changed it no but the change IS needed.

Mesmer staff (utility weapon) having hella damage with low risk as a defenisve evaseive playstyle is not ok.

Also yes buff druid but dont make it where they can just be selfish with the sustain/healing buff increase if you are going to buff it make it so that its buffs are mostly about playing a bigger role on abilities used on allies not itself.

I actually agree with you on this. I suppose I could have done a better job of clarifying that in my post. My argument was not that you shouldn't ever nerf outliers. Sometimes things are clearly over-performing and need to be toned down (ex. Pre-nerf holo). It was not okay that holo had as much damage as it did, while having access to on-demand stab, stealth, high-vigor uptime, mobility, incredible sustain, moderate team support with healing turret and elixirs, and tons of CC which was easy to land on multiple targets by accident. All of this, while running a semi-tanky build.

My post was made in attempt to point out that, when the outliers get nerfed, other classes, which were previously held in check by said outliers will rise up and become the outliers themselves. This will repeat indefinitely until every class has been stripped down to their bare bones. In a game like guild wars with so many different classes and builds, perfect balance is virtually impossible. There are simply too many factors to take into account.

For that reason, once the obviously overloaded classes have been toned down, it's important to start asking which classes are too strong and which are simply a bi-product of the meta. Start focusing more on which play styles we want to promote, and which are unhealthy.

[ElderNewt.5840]

well classes got nerfed as people were crying over them and now we have a meta that it's dog bad because of it.. gg

[Taarakian.8462]

Stop the cheating in Ranked PvP. We have 2 players as of today (12-6-2019) with identical win ratios in season 19. They both have 93 wins and 7 loses. How is this even a thing. 1st and 2nd place. same score.See for yourselves.

[Flandre.2870]

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