Spoiler: Whisper in the dark: Final Cinematic.

[Tyson.5160]

@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

@ugrakarma.9416 said:

@"ZDragon.3046" said:Jormag trying to figure out how to make a smile is executed so perfectlyWait hold on... i think no.. .is this a smile wait.. there we go :#

i wonder how the graphic designer was thinking at moment "holy god how to make a smile that seems a creepy smile?".

To me, it feels like they might have used someone who had a stroke and couldn't control their muscles as reference. That seems to be how it is - Jormag can't quite control the muscles until the end.

@RyuDragnier.9476 said:

@"SidewayS.3789" said:What IF, the "Mother" Kralkatorrik said about its the "Steve"? Deep SEA Dragon...As we know, water represent the element of life (metaphorically speaking). Maybe DSD its the creator of all EDs, since her domain will be the biggest of all (The Unending Ocean). I mean even the devs told us that, Kralkatorrik's last word was not something random like "LuL iz ded". And let's not forget, that Kralkatorrik crashed in the ocean (along side with all those inslands brought from Domains of the Gods). Just my opinion.I'm not so sure it's DSD. If we look at The All, the 6 ED keep the balance of Tyria in place. The questions then change...if this "Mother" is who created the ED, does that then mean that said "Mother" is the creator of Tyria itself since the ED are needed to keep Tyria alive? Is said "Mother" a giant ED? Where is said "Mother", in the Mists or elsewhere? Could said "Mother" be...the very Tyria we explore itself?

I'm in agreement with "Mother" not being the deep sea dragon. The six Elder Dragons have always been presented as (roughly) equals, with opposites. Jormag and Primordus aren't the only opposites - Zhaitan and Mordremoth are also shown to be opposites in Season 3, which would imply Kralkatorrik and the DSD are opposites as well.

Whatever Kralaktorrik meant by "Mother" is either a) his predecessor and thus never going to be a threat because she's been dead for eons, or b) something greater than Elder Dragons, even the DSD. And option 'a' seems more likely to me.

@Psientist.6437 said:Does using the dead as puppets represent a general ability for Jormag? Or perhaps it is only possible because the puppet is exceptionally corrupted by Jormag.

My guess is that it's how Jormag mixes Mind and Death magic.

Do we know if Jormag received the mind spectrum? We definitely know he got death and plant as shown by the Icebrood abomination. Kralkatorrik received Death and Mind.

[Scraggy.3814]

@Tyson.5160 said:Do we know if Jormag received the mind spectrum? We definitely know he got death and plant as shown by the Icebrood abomination. Kralkatorrik received Death and Mind.

I think Jormag has its own kind of mind manipulation, we already know that It can get inside our heads and obviously can control its minions like every ED, if Jormag didn’t gain Mordy’s mind spectrum, I believe this could be classified as Jormag’s influence mixed with Zhaitan’s death magic, and since the Fraenir was dead, it might’ve been easier to speak through, since there was no brain activity, it was ripe for the taking

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

@"Tyson.5160" said:Do we know if Jormag received the mind spectrum? We definitely know he got death and plant as shown by the Icebrood abomination. Kralkatorrik received Death and Mind.

Jormag got a "very small amount" back in Season 3. Nothing we see so far outright confirms that anything in Bjora Marches is due to new abilities from Elder Dragon deaths. Rather, it seems that we're beginning to see new abilities in Jormag from consuming and overtaking the Spirits of the Wild's magic. The Icebrood Construct, for example, is fueled by Raven's power taken from corrupting the Raven Sanctum. There's even implications that the Fallen and Aberrants come from powers taken from Dolyak/Ox and Wolverine respectively.

Which makes sense; if Kralkatorrik got new powers from eating a cosmic being like the demigod Balthazar, then Jormag should be getting powers from eating cosmic beings like the Spirits of the Wild. How it could get powers from the Raven Sanctum and corrupting some shamans is a bit harder to tell though, but it maintains consistency with the retroactive continuity of that new power that was added with S4.

I imagine if the current writers were to rework the personal story, we'd see Zhaitan using the god statues'/temples magic far more directly and purposefully rather than just having some statues exude some harmful aura if the temple isn't under Pact control.

Aurene getting powers from eating Joko's magic is still inconsistent though...

[ZDragon.3046]

@Tyson.5160 said:

@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

@ugrakarma.9416 said:

@"ZDragon.3046" said:Jormag trying to figure out how to make a smile is executed so perfectlyWait hold on... i think no.. .is this a smile wait.. there we go :#

i wonder how the graphic designer was thinking at moment "holy god how to make a smile that seems a creepy smile?".

To me, it feels like they might have used someone who had a stroke and couldn't control their muscles as reference. That seems to be how it is - Jormag can't quite control the muscles until the end.

@RyuDragnier.9476 said:

@"SidewayS.3789" said:What IF, the "Mother" Kralkatorrik said about its the "Steve"? Deep SEA Dragon...As we know, water represent the element of life (metaphorically speaking). Maybe DSD its the creator of all EDs, since her domain will be the biggest of all (The Unending Ocean). I mean even the devs told us that, Kralkatorrik's last word was not something random like "LuL iz ded". And let's not forget, that Kralkatorrik crashed in the ocean (along side with all those inslands brought from Domains of the Gods). Just my opinion.I'm not so sure it's DSD. If we look at The All, the 6 ED keep the balance of Tyria in place. The questions then change...if this "Mother" is who created the ED, does that then mean that said "Mother" is the creator of Tyria itself since the ED are needed to keep Tyria alive? Is said "Mother" a giant ED? Where is said "Mother", in the Mists or elsewhere? Could said "Mother" be...the very Tyria we explore itself?

I'm in agreement with "Mother" not being the deep sea dragon. The six Elder Dragons have always been presented as (roughly) equals, with opposites. Jormag and Primordus aren't the only opposites - Zhaitan and Mordremoth are also shown to be opposites in Season 3, which would imply Kralkatorrik and the DSD are opposites as well.

Whatever Kralaktorrik meant by "Mother" is either a) his predecessor and thus never going to be a threat because she's been dead for eons, or b) something greater than Elder Dragons, even the DSD. And option 'a' seems more likely to me.

@Psientist.6437 said:Does using the dead as puppets represent a general ability for Jormag? Or perhaps it is only possible because the puppet is exceptionally corrupted by Jormag.

My guess is that it's how Jormag mixes Mind and Death magic.

Do we know if Jormag received the mind spectrum? We definitely know he got death and plant as shown by the Icebrood abomination. Kralkatorrik received Death and Mind.

But couldnt he talk to people in the distant past already there are books about the dragon talking to norn and such long before the plant dragon died so i think this is just his power correct. Also he was already able to keep frozen thins alive before the death dragon died to... this all seems like its just mostly him. If he knows what happend to kralkatorrik from eating different spectrums of magic maybe he chose not to do such things.

[Tyson.5160]

@ZDragon.3046 said:

@Tyson.5160 said:

@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

@ugrakarma.9416 said:

@ZDragon.3046 said:Jormag trying to figure out how to make a smile is executed so perfectlyWait hold on... i think no.. .is this a smile wait.. there we go :#

i wonder how the graphic designer was thinking at moment "holy god how to make a smile that seems a creepy smile?".

To me, it feels like they might have used someone who had a stroke and couldn't control their muscles as reference. That seems to be how it is - Jormag can't quite control the muscles until the end.

@RyuDragnier.9476 said:

@"SidewayS.3789" said:What IF, the "Mother" Kralkatorrik said about its the "Steve"? Deep SEA Dragon...As we know, water represent the element of life (metaphorically speaking). Maybe DSD its the creator of all EDs, since her domain will be the biggest of all (The Unending Ocean). I mean even the devs told us that, Kralkatorrik's last word was not something random like "LuL iz ded". And let's not forget, that Kralkatorrik crashed in the ocean (along side with all those inslands brought from Domains of the Gods). Just my opinion.I'm not so sure it's DSD. If we look at The All, the 6 ED keep the balance of Tyria in place. The questions then change...if this "Mother" is who created the ED, does that then mean that said "Mother" is the creator of Tyria itself since the ED are needed to keep Tyria alive? Is said "Mother" a giant ED? Where is said "Mother", in the Mists or elsewhere? Could said "Mother" be...the very Tyria we explore itself?

I'm in agreement with "Mother" not being the deep sea dragon. The six Elder Dragons have always been presented as (roughly) equals, with opposites. Jormag and Primordus aren't the only opposites - Zhaitan and Mordremoth are also shown to be opposites in Season 3, which would imply Kralkatorrik and the DSD are opposites as well.

Whatever Kralaktorrik meant by "Mother" is either a) his predecessor and thus never going to be a threat because she's been dead for eons, or b) something greater than Elder Dragons, even the DSD. And option 'a' seems more likely to me.

@Psientist.6437 said:Does using the dead as puppets represent a general ability for Jormag? Or perhaps it is only possible because the puppet is exceptionally corrupted by Jormag.

My guess is that it's how Jormag mixes Mind and Death magic.

Do we know if Jormag received the mind spectrum? We definitely know he got death and plant as shown by the Icebrood abomination. Kralkatorrik received Death and Mind.

But couldnt he talk to people in the distant past already there are books about the dragon talking to norn and such long before the plant dragon died so i think this is just his power correct. Also he was already able to keep frozen thins alive before the death dragon died to... this all seems like its just mostly him. If he knows what happend to kralkatorrik from eating different spectrums of magic maybe he chose not to do such things.

Jormag speaking to us, is most likely Jormag using his persuasion sphere rather then mind, as Aesgeir mentions in The Burden, which is written before Mordremoth dies( or awake for that matter).

As for manipulating the corpses, this is likely how Jormag is choosing to use the Death Magic Sphere, as it’s been stated by devs that only Zhaitan has powers to control the dead. You could make the argument that’s it’s because the Fraenir was Icebrood, however Jormag used the same ability with Almorra too.

[ZDragon.3046]

@Tyson.5160 said:

@ZDragon.3046 said:

@Tyson.5160 said:

@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

@ugrakarma.9416 said:

@ZDragon.3046 said:Jormag trying to figure out how to make a smile is executed so perfectlyWait hold on... i think no.. .is this a smile wait.. there we go :#

i wonder how the graphic designer was thinking at moment "holy god how to make a smile that seems a creepy smile?".

To me, it feels like they might have used someone who had a stroke and couldn't control their muscles as reference. That seems to be how it is - Jormag can't quite control the muscles until the end.

@RyuDragnier.9476 said:

@"SidewayS.3789" said:What IF, the "Mother" Kralkatorrik said about its the "Steve"? Deep SEA Dragon...As we know, water represent the element of life (metaphorically speaking). Maybe DSD its the creator of all EDs, since her domain will be the biggest of all (The Unending Ocean). I mean even the devs told us that, Kralkatorrik's last word was not something random like "LuL iz ded". And let's not forget, that Kralkatorrik crashed in the ocean (along side with all those inslands brought from Domains of the Gods). Just my opinion.I'm not so sure it's DSD. If we look at The All, the 6 ED keep the balance of Tyria in place. The questions then change...if this "Mother" is who created the ED, does that then mean that said "Mother" is the creator of Tyria itself since the ED are needed to keep Tyria alive? Is said "Mother" a giant ED? Where is said "Mother", in the Mists or elsewhere? Could said "Mother" be...the very Tyria we explore itself?

I'm in agreement with "Mother" not being the deep sea dragon. The six Elder Dragons have always been presented as (roughly) equals, with opposites. Jormag and Primordus aren't the only opposites - Zhaitan and Mordremoth are also shown to be opposites in Season 3, which would imply Kralkatorrik and the DSD are opposites as well.

Whatever Kralaktorrik meant by "Mother" is either a) his predecessor and thus never going to be a threat because she's been dead for eons, or b) something greater than Elder Dragons, even the DSD. And option 'a' seems more likely to me.

@Psientist.6437 said:Does using the dead as puppets represent a general ability for Jormag? Or perhaps it is only possible because the puppet is exceptionally corrupted by Jormag.

My guess is that it's how Jormag mixes Mind and Death magic.

Do we know if Jormag received the mind spectrum? We definitely know he got death and plant as shown by the Icebrood abomination. Kralkatorrik received Death and Mind.

But couldnt he talk to people in the distant past already there are books about the dragon talking to norn and such long before the plant dragon died so i think this is just his power correct. Also he was already able to keep frozen thins alive before the death dragon died to... this all seems like its just mostly him. If he knows what happend to kralkatorrik from eating different spectrums of magic maybe he chose not to do such things.

Jormag speaking to us, is most likely Jormag using his persuasion sphere rather then mind, as Aesgeir mentions in The Burden, which is written before Mordremoth dies( or awake for that matter).

As for manipulating the corpses, this is likely how Jormag is choosing to use the Death Magic Sphere, as it’s been stated by devs that only Zhaitan has powers to control the dead. You could make the argument that’s it’s because the Fraenir was Icebrood, however Jormag used the same ability with Almorra too.

But what about all the frozen being jormag has commanded before zhaitan died.... i dont think this is the case of him using the death spectrum i think its something he could already do. Obviously warm blooded beings cant survive in the dead winters that jormag covers his areas with eventually even the snavir freeze to death yet they still animate you can see this on foes even in the core early stage of the game as they appear corrupted with ice growing out of their bodys or through what would surely be vital areas.I dont think it matters when it comes down to Fraenir vs AllmoraFraneir was still a very new subject of jormag (at least i think based on hour our grumpy norn talks about him).

I personally think if you die in general and once your body is cold enough perhaps partly frozen he/she can control it with his magic more like persuading it to move or say what he wants it to say rather than resurrecting it like an undead/risen. Keep in mind both Fraenir and Almorra did not stay alive after Jormag used them. They fell right back to the ground and showed what was no sign of life which might mean its not a true resurrection of any kind just subjugation over a cold object that no longer has any will of its own.

If you follow some of the AI's being whispered too right now they walk of to certain locations and freeze to death and die litterally (they get a freezing to death debuff) i would assume that this is how jormag is going to get its army by freezing the bodys and later just controlling them via subjugation even thought they are technically dead.

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

@"ZDragon.3046" said:But what about all the frozen being jormag has commanded before zhaitan died.... i dont think this is the case of him using the death spectrum i think its something he could already do. Obviously warm blooded beings cant survive in the dead winters that jormag covers his areas with eventually even the snavir freeze to death yet they still animate you can see this on foes even in the core early stage of the game as they appear corrupted with ice growing out of their bodys or through what would surely be vital areas.I dont think it matters when it comes down to Fraenir vs AllmoraFraneir was still a very new subject of jormag (at least i think based on hour our grumpy norn talks about him).

I personally think if you die in general and once your body is cold enough perhaps partly frozen he/she can control it with his magic more like persuading it to move or say what he wants it to say rather than resurrecting it like an undead/risen. Keep in mind both Fraenir and Almorra did not stay alive after Jormag used them. They fell right back to the ground and showed what was no sign of life which might mean its not a true resurrection of any kind just subjugation over a cold object that no longer has any will of its own.

If you follow some of the AI's being whispered too right now they walk of to certain locations and freeze to death and die litterally (they get a freezing to death debuff) i would assume that this is how jormag is going to get its army by freezing the bodys and later just controlling them via subjugation even thought they are technically dead.

None of those "frozen beings" were a) directly puppeted by Jormag, or b) dead. Nor was Almorra - who was puppeted by Jormag - an Icebrood.

Icebrood do slowly convert to ice, but they're not "dead" even if they don't have pumping blood. As weird as that may sound, but the same concept applies to branded which are crystal or destroyers that are rock and lava.

This is the first time we've ever seen or heard about Jormag personally controlling another being, or manipulating the dead. Which to me suggests this is how Jormag's making use of what little mind and death magic they've gotten.