Grim Spectre' potential.

[killfil.3472]

All it needs is a few tweaks and it could be a great elite!I do not know about most other people, but between having the 150 second CD Lich Form, or a tweaked version of Grim Spectre with a more reasonable cooldown, I'd much prefer the latter.After all, our elite Core elite skills, as they are now, are quite underwhelming in my opinion.Plaguelands IS quite nice when it comes to its damage, but its cooldown (unless traited) is much too high to be used efficiently. The same can be said for the Lich Form (although, as a spectral skill, it can no longer have its cooldown reduced).And as for the Flesh Golem… it's main issue, in my experience at least, is its Charge active skill having pathing issues, often getting stucks on ground protusions like rocks or slight elevations. As well as the fact that it deals very low damage (unless striking with the very tip of the skill, which occurs very rarely… Could it not be reworked into something like the warrior' Bull Charge?)

[Methuselah.4376]

Combine Grim Spectre with Summon Madness and pulsing stab, and I am behind you. In essence extracting the best things about lich form.

[killfil.3472]

@Methuselah.4376 said:Combine Grim Spectre with Summon Madness and pulsing stab, and I am behind you. In essence extracting the best things about lich form.

I dunno, that'd make it really loaded… Grim Spectre would be a great sustain elite, but Summon Madness could definitly replace Bone Minions, or Flesh Golem!

[Stand The Wall.6987]

reading this suggestion over and over is painful. lich form needs buffs sure, maybe just a cd decrease, but I don't want it gutted like plague form.

[Methuselah.4376]

@killfil.3472 said:

@Methuselah.4376 said:Combine Grim Spectre with Summon Madness and pulsing stab, and I am behind you. In essence extracting the best things about lich form.

I dunno, that'd make it really loaded… Grim Spectre would be a great sustain elite, but Summon Madness could definitly replace Bone Minions, or Flesh Golem!

Overloaded? Your basically taking a transform that offers 5 skills and only taking 2 of them and pulsing stab is present in Lich Form anyways.

[Drarnor Kunoram.5180]

I wouldn't even mind seeing the prior Grim Specter combined with the current one. Say, a 600 range PBAoE that strips all boons off of enemies and all conditions off of allies, then you get the current Grim Specter. In both iterations of Lich Form, Grim Specter was honestly the best part of it.

[Dadnir.5038]

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:reading this suggestion over and over is painful. lich form needs buffs sure, maybe just a cd decrease, but I don't want it gutted like plague form.

Well, I don't see the need of an elite transformation on a profession that already have a transformation as it's special mechanism. It's like a mesmer having an elite skill that would shatter it's clones for a not so great effect and with a150 second CD.

All in all, lich form have to much draw backs for what it give the necromancer. It transform you into a huge, ugly and clumsy target, the CD is awfully long and the skills are barely worth locking you out of your utility and weapon skills. No amount of buffs can save a lost cause, it would just make the thing temporarily OP which would lead to nerfs. Better scrap it and only keep the best of it while removing the unnecessary parts.

[Anchoku.8142]

Transforms are annoying for locking out other skills.

It is that simple.

But it is also baked into Necro so it is really difficult to fix.

[Stand The Wall.6987]

@Dadnir.5038 said:All in all, lich form have to much draw backs for what it give the necromancer.

yes the ranged damage is horrible, better destroy the whole skill. buffs will make this a good choice, you and everyone else are trippin.

[Redpawa.4108]

Given how attached people are to Lich Form they could just make Grimm spectre fill the missing elite well slot, something along the lines of...

Grimm Spectre

Target area pulses, siphoning vitality and stealing boons from foes. Cooldown 90 seconds (72 when traited)

Vitality per stack (40s): 30 Vitality

Boons stolen: 1

Number of targets: 5

Pulse: 1 second

Duration: 5 seconds

Radius: 300

Range: 900

[killfil.3472]

@Redpawa.4108 said:Given how attached people are to Lich Form they could just make Grimm spectre fill the missing elite well slot, something along the lines of...

Grimm Spectre

Target area pulses, siphoning vitality and stealing boons from foes. Cooldown 90 seconds (72 when traited)

Vitality per stack (40s): 30 Vitality

Boons stolen: 1

Number of targets: 5

Pulse: 1 second

Duration: 5 seconds

Radius: 300

Range: 900

I'd love that! But I'd rather it also siphoned health as well…

[Dadnir.5038]

@Redpawa.4108 said:Given how attached people are to Lich Form they could just make Grimm spectre fill the missing elite well slot, something along the lines of...

Grimm Spectre

Target area pulses, siphoning vitality and stealing boons from foes. Cooldown 90 seconds (72 when traited)

Vitality per stack (40s): 30 Vitality

Boons stolen: 1

Number of targets: 5

Pulse: 1 second

Duration: 5 seconds

Radius: 300

Range: 900

Well, spectral skills are meant to build life force, mabe you could add something on your skill in order for it to fit in it's own category.

[Drarnor Kunoram.5180]

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:

@Dadnir.5038 said:All in all, lich form have to much draw backs for what it give the necromancer.

yes the ranged damage is horrible, better destroy the whole skill. buffs will make this a good choice, you and everyone else are trippin.

It's not that much higher than Life Blast in practice, since Life Blast keeps stacking Might and gets more traited damage modifiers. If you're running Lich Form, you are running Spite anyway, so this is going to be true. Blowing my elite for slightly-better-than-Life-Blast without the protection or availability of Shroud and less effective piercing (due to origin height and angle) is not worthwhile in my book.

[Stand The Wall.6987]

@Drarnor Kunoram.5180 said:It's not that much higher than Life Blast in practice, since Life Blast keeps stacking Might and gets more traited damage modifiers. If you're running Lich Form, you are running Spite anyway, so this is going to be true. Blowing my elite for slightly-better-than-Life-Blast without the protection or availability of Shroud and less effective piercing (due to origin height and angle) is not worthwhile in my book.

so make the transform smaller. if you already have 25 might or its coming from somewhere else the damage is waaaay more. 2.34 at 1.1 sec > 1.4 at 1.2 sec. uhh pretty sure they get the same dmg mods. oh you're talking about the crit damage boost in shroud. meh, an extra 1.0 in coefficients is way better then 20% crit damage. 2.34 on an auto attack is fucking beast mode. you also get an extra 10k hp so its not like its all bad.

[LucianDK.8615]

Talking about Lich Form. I see on metabattle that its refered to as a burst damage skill. But which is the skills to mainly use from it? The 20s duration makes it hard to get a grip on its abilities.

[Aigleborgne.2981]

@LucianDK.8615 said:Talking about Lich Form. I see on metabattle that its refered to as a burst damage skill. But which is the skills to mainly use from it? The 20s duration makes it hard to get a grip on its abilities.

Summon Madness (skill 4) can do very high damage. It is as good as Grim Specter.I do like Lich Form, sure it has its drawbacks but I don't like other core elites. It could be great if lich form was considered as shroud (benefits from traits). It could become OP through.

[LucianDK.8615]

@Aigleborgne.2981 said:

@LucianDK.8615 said:Talking about Lich Form. I see on metabattle that its refered to as a burst damage skill. But which is the skills to mainly use from it? The 20s duration makes it hard to get a grip on its abilities.

Summon Madness (skill 4) can do very high damage. It is as good as Grim Specter.I do like Lich Form, sure it has its drawbacks but I don't like other core elites. It could be great if lich form was considered as shroud (benefits from traits). It could become OP through.

Perhaps another idea. Lich Shroud. Compared with Harbinger Shroud for Scourges.

[XECOR.2814]

Imo a buffed version of lich form #5 can completely replace the lich form elite. The key point should be low cd tho.

[Sigmoid.7082]

Either the old, new , or combination of both versions of lich form would make for a far better elite than the transformation. Even on a 90s cooldown.

[Dadnir.5038]

The purity of purpose of the spectral skills is to build life force and Lich form do that poorly. 15% LF on a 150 seconds CD for an elite skill of a skill category dedicated to build life force is laughable.

[LucianDK.8615]

Which only grew worser for spectral skills after the loss of the spectral skill cd reduction trait. Most of the skills feels like the cd is just too big for regular use. Which kind of makes it ironic when the upcomming buff to the passive LF regen of Signet of Undeath is starting to look like a better option for LF sustain.

[killfil.3472]

@Dadnir.5038 said:The purity of purpose of the spectral skills is to build life force and Lich form do that poorly. 15% LF on a 150 seconds CD for an elite skill of a skill category dedicated to build life force is laughable.

ACCURATE.

[ZDragon.3046]

Summon madness needs to still be somewhere and not replacing golem because golem is still one of the best cc tools fore defiance bars in pve (and i know you know this)

Grim specter on its own i dont think anymore is worth being the elite itself im sorry to say.Its not good enough for the removal of the damage lich can provide from range with autos or from summon madness burst combos in pve.

IF you are looking at pvp only then perhaps but then i would say just make grim specter its own elite under a different type like a signet or something.

Im not the biggest fan of the current lich form but lets not throw it away and get stuck with a crap skill version of grim specter then cry that we want lich back later you know how anet has been with reworks lately chances are you wont get the version of grim specter that you want or have in mind or even the exact same skill within lich itself while losing lich and summon madness along with it completely.

Till I see that reworks are done with players voices in mind i say leave lich as it is because i dont want to lose my only power based elite for a passive vitality rip that cant be improved via any stats like ferocity as it deals no strike damage.

Sorry to say for now ill take my risk on keeping lich.