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Rampage...


Kamsin.8541

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@KryTiKaL.3125 said:

@KryTiKaL.3125 said:Rampage really should not be an all in one Elite. It has damage reduction, stability pulses, several hard CC and it
had
a high damage output. A lot of this was caused by the high accessibility to Might and other damage bonuses on Warrior, this made Rampage a problem in enclosed spaces; like when trying to defend a capture point in Conquest. This gave it a lot of power in those circumstances.

However, even with the severe reduction in damage output...it still has damage reduction, stability pulses and several hard CC. It is still a strong Elite and it will still more than function as a CC bot mode, which it
should
be. More often than not Warrior players,
a lot of them
would just monkey around with Rampage and that gave them distinct advantages in Conquest just due to the nature of how that game mode works. It also happens in WvW so its not entirely specific to Conquest, you're just more easily able to kite out Rampage in WvW than in Conquest.

I'm saying all of this as a Warrior main, and I
avoided
even using Rampage because of how overly stacked it was. I also avoided it because honestly anyone that played above a Gold division level just avoids its CC so long as they don't need to stick on top of a
tiny
capture point. In Conquest it created a problem due to the small space of capture points, in WvW it was just an ook ook monkey Elite that people just kited or dodged. I legitimately never felt like I've needed to use it, even if it would have given me much more of an advantage in certain fights; I'd rather not resort to ooking in this game when there is already
so much
of it.

Point being that it didn't need the damage that it did, its an Elite that is there to be a CC bot so as to either set up opportunities for yourself or your teammates.

Thats all fine and dandy. Everyone knew it needed a nerf, but nerfing to literally the lowest critting skill in the entire game seems a bit much for an elite.

Use it for the CC, drop out of it, all good. Damage shouldn't be a factor in why you use it, it should be used for dropping a bunch of CC onto a target to lock them down or even use it to escape from a less than favorable situation or buy time until your team gets to you. Even if it does hit for like 21 damage...kay, I see no problem with that I would rather it have forced a dodge, burnt a Stability stack, forced them to burn a CC break or actually landed the CC and now either you or any teammate nearby can react to that. Not like it takes much to drop out of Rampage, its a button on your bar.

I also don't see a problem as long as every other hard CC adjusts also. Prime light beam crit? 50 damage at most. Holo 5? 50 damage. Glint elite? 50 damage, etc. If the rationale for 3/4 skills on a transform on 90 or 72s CD do effectively zero damage because they provide hard CC, literally every hard CC needs to mimic that change.

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how can you even complain lmao

every time i play Ranger and Necro i wish i could slot in normal skill into Elite slot lmao

a fking Entangle that warrior can just press shield 4 to kill it. a fking boon elite that can get ripped by everything in the game

these are " Elite " btw

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@ButterPeanut.9746 said:

@KryTiKaL.3125 said:Rampage really should not be an all in one Elite. It has damage reduction, stability pulses, several hard CC and it
had
a high damage output. A lot of this was caused by the high accessibility to Might and other damage bonuses on Warrior, this made Rampage a problem in enclosed spaces; like when trying to defend a capture point in Conquest. This gave it a lot of power in those circumstances.

However, even with the severe reduction in damage output...it still has damage reduction, stability pulses and several hard CC. It is still a strong Elite and it will still more than function as a CC bot mode, which it
should
be. More often than not Warrior players,
a lot of them
would just monkey around with Rampage and that gave them distinct advantages in Conquest just due to the nature of how that game mode works. It also happens in WvW so its not entirely specific to Conquest, you're just more easily able to kite out Rampage in WvW than in Conquest.

I'm saying all of this as a Warrior main, and I
avoided
even using Rampage because of how overly stacked it was. I also avoided it because honestly anyone that played above a Gold division level just avoids its CC so long as they don't need to stick on top of a
tiny
capture point. In Conquest it created a problem due to the small space of capture points, in WvW it was just an ook ook monkey Elite that people just kited or dodged. I legitimately never felt like I've needed to use it, even if it would have given me much more of an advantage in certain fights; I'd rather not resort to ooking in this game when there is already
so much
of it.

Point being that it didn't need the damage that it did, its an Elite that is there to be a CC bot so as to either set up opportunities for yourself or your teammates.

Thats all fine and dandy. Everyone knew it needed a nerf, but nerfing to literally the lowest critting skill in the entire game seems a bit much for an elite.

Use it for the CC, drop out of it, all good. Damage shouldn't be a factor in why you use it, it should be used for dropping a bunch of CC onto a target to lock them down or even use it to escape from a less than favorable situation or buy time until your team gets to you. Even if it does hit for like 21 damage...kay, I see no problem with that I would rather it have forced a dodge, burnt a Stability stack, forced them to burn a CC break or actually landed the CC and now either you or any teammate nearby can react to that. Not like it takes much to drop out of Rampage, its a button on your bar.

I also don't see a problem as long as every other hard CC adjusts also. Prime light beam crit? 50 damage at most. Holo 5? 50 damage. Glint elite? 50 damage, etc. If the rationale for 3/4 skills on a transform on 90 or 72s CD do effectively zero damage because they provide hard CC, literally every hard CC needs to mimic that change.

No they don't. They function differently to how Rampage does, as Rampage is a mode with several hard CCs tied to it, each of which on a relatively short cooldown as well as dealing out significant damage with each one while the entire mode has pulsing stability for its entire duration (which persists after Rampage ends) and reduces damage taken by 50%. Prime Light Beam is a one off skill, deals damage and CCs with a cast time and a secondary effect only when above a certain heat threshold. Chaotic Release is another one off skill that deals damage and CCs and while it is on cooldown the Facet of Chaos is also put on cooldown.

Rampage wasn't changed this way, at least as I see it, purely because it provided hard CC, it was because it provided several skills with hard CC, that dealt significant damage each individually while the mode itself also reduced damage by 50% and provided pulsing stability. It was because all of that was loaded into that one skill for its duration. I know it looks like I've repeated myself in this post but that is intentional. Rampage doesn't need the damage to be useful, and Warrior being lower tier in the higher brackets in Tournaments is another issue within itself (mostly attributed to the power creep of other classes and other things that also need tuning down or changing across PvP in general in this game).

Like I said, I've never felt the need for Rampage and Rampage losing that damage isn't going to make it not useful, it is simply going to shift how it is used rather than it just be a monkey ook ook button that people press in Conquest to turn themselves into a CC spamming, stability pulsing, tank that deals out heavy amounts of damage because of all the Might the Warrior has built onto themselves.

This is how balance needs to go. They either tune down the damage coefficients on skills to cut down the power creep provided by the sheer and ridiculous amount of accessibility to boons these days or they trim out the accessibility to boons that they've been adding more and more of over time. Tactics for Warrior is just the most recent example of ANet doing that, Herald is a longer running one, and there are plenty more that have been there since PoF launched.

We'll see how the big boi balance patch is, what it includes, and go from there. Its likely going to feel rougher for people who really relied on Rampage, but for those who didn't...s'all good.

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@ButterPeanut.9746 said:I mean if they are going this route, then every single hard CC in the game should crit for 30 or less with 25might. Rifle 4 holo, both elites on rev, staff 5 on rev, LB4 on ranger, smoakscale knockdown on ranger, etc, etc.

What i was expecting from this change was that the power scaling was reduced to 0.01, but it still had some base damage. That way you'd get like 1-2k crits as opposed to 8-10k with 25might. Can't say i was expecting the 0.01 to bring it all the way down to critting for 30.

I mean, sure. The second all other classes gets dazes added to their 7k damage per auto chain.

The nerf is hard, but rampage is far from dead.

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@Hannelore.8153 said:Good, now remove damage from all other CC in the game as well. It should be damage or control, not both at once.

I mean, it kind of makes sense in specialty skills like Full Counter, but..everything?

  1. It'll reduce DPS and sudden death fights.
  2. It'll reduce CC chain frustration.

Please go to my YouTube Channel and watch all my montages of Chaos Storm, Magic Pistol, Diversion, Point Blank Shot, Hilt Bash, Shield of Absorption, Ring of Warding, Head Shot ect.ect all critting for 10k damage.

20 damage on crits, if true, might be an over nerf. But something needed to done with rampage beyond just bumping it from an effective 72s cooldown up to a 96 second cooldown the way they originally did. The thing literally consistently two shots people.

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@Halikus.1406 said:Oh.... did you take the nerf bat?Good, keep it like that. I'd rather see low dmg on a stun than: Someone hit you with Bolder for 10kGood riddance. :DLets be realistic here, a giant person picking up, what looks like a 60 kilo rock Nd throwing it at your face, it would probably take your head clean off! I would take the 10k anyday.

Wonder when they need wvw version too

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@Fat Disgrace.4275 said:

@Halikus.1406 said:Oh.... did you take the nerf bat?Good, keep it like that. I'd rather see low dmg on a stun than: Someone hit you with Bolder for 10kGood riddance. :DLets be realistic here, a giant person picking up, what looks like a 60 kilo rock Nd throwing it at your face, it would probably take your head clean off! I would take the 10k anyway.

Wonder when they need wvw version too

You wanna be realistic in a game where we have dragons and mount griphons?OkayChamp

If we're talking about realism, can we also have rifle skills 1/2 shot ppl? Please anet, make it happen. :o

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@Halikus.1406 said:

@Halikus.1406 said:Oh.... did you take the nerf bat?Good, keep it like that. I'd rather see low dmg on a stun than: Someone hit you with Bolder for 10kGood riddance. :DLets be realistic here, a giant person picking up, what looks like a 60 kilo rock Nd throwing it at your face, it would probably take your head clean off! I would take the 10k anyway.

Wonder when they need wvw version too

You wanna be realistic in a game where we have dragons and mount griphons?OkayChamp

If we're talking about realism, can we also have rifle skills 1/2 shot ppl? Please anet, make it happen. :o

Nh-uh! All projectiles from guns use rubber pellets and the arrows are made from plastic with blunt tips. The bolder is legit though, its quite a coincidence that the giant manages to find a bolder at the location.

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@Fat Disgrace.4275 said:

@Halikus.1406 said:Oh.... did you take the nerf bat?Good, keep it like that. I'd rather see low dmg on a stun than: Someone hit you with Bolder for 10kGood riddance. :DLets be realistic here, a giant person picking up, what looks like a 60 kilo rock Nd throwing it at your face, it would probably take your head clean off! I would take the 10k anyway.

Wonder when they need wvw version too

You wanna be realistic in a game where we have dragons and mount griphons?OkayChamp

If we're talking about realism, can we also have rifle skills 1/2 shot ppl? Please anet, make it happen. :o

Nh-uh! All projectiles from guns use rubber pellets and the arrows are made from plastic with blunt tips. The bolder is legit though, its quite a coincidence that the giant manages to find a bolder at the location.

That's..... a good point actually.What I can learn from all of this is: Can we leave realism out of the way? :/

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@Hannelore.8153 said:Good, now remove damage from all other CC in the game as well. It should be damage or control, not both at once.

I mean, it kind of makes sense in specialty skills like Full Counter, but..everything?

  1. It'll reduce DPS and sudden death fights.
  2. It'll reduce CC chain frustration.

I agree! makes sure to nerf warriors shield 4, warriors disruptive stab, warriors bulls charge, warriors full counter, warriors stomp too!those are CC too.To all the whiners that Rampage deals 0 dmg. IT DOES DAMAGE, just not WITH CC. NOW YOU HAVE TO PRESS m1 AFTER CC, good players were doing this already, plebs were throwing rock -> stomp, others were rock->dash ->m1 when you waste dodges THEN stomp, dodging rampage is still a must have.It still gives shitton of mobility, its still a safestomp, its still good for resing, its still sets up kills, learn to use it properly istead of whining about it.If I could use rampage on Mesmer I would have, 100% fuck jaunt and fuck mass invis, if you wanna look at trash elites, you are not the only ones.

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@"Tycura.1982" said:I've been asking for this for a good while now. Honestly? Good riddance. Warrior has great elites that were overshadowed by rampage for too long.

Yeah signet is definitely on par with things like Prime Light Beam, Chilled to the bone, Dagger Storm, Mass Invis, Shiro/Glint elites, Renewed Focus, Strength of the Pack, Weave Self, FGS, etc.

That redundant 5 might/fury/swiftness really utilizes that elite slot well.

Bubble also is so good that people use any movement ability in the game, or dodge 1 time, and are outside of its effect.

Yeah warrior elites are top tier.

Tantrum needed a nerf, lets not pretend like warrior elites are "great" though.

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@SeikeNz.3526 said:too bad they didn't nerfed the whole warrior kit, because they can still do 10k dmg per hit while cc you without rampage

Seikenz at it again, lel, nobody takes you seriously anymore because of your overexaggerated statements, please stay true to the facts, thanks.

Rampage definately needed those nerfs, even as a warrior main it felt lame and just overpowered to use. And also dying to it feels just as bad.

They really should buff signet or banner tho, those arent rly good in pvp... Banner better than signet, but still.Id rather have a normal utility slot instead the elite slot for pvp honestly

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I’ve been a critic of rampage and agree it needed a nerf.

That said, I’m shocked they made it do so little damage (my mistaken understanding was they were merely making the skill not scale with your power so there would be a flat damage amount on the lower end 500-1k normal, 2-3k crit at best).

As far as design. Sure it is a bunch of low cool down cc’s and gap closers. It shouldn’t be also hitting for 10k, reducing damage and pulsing stability. But, without any damage I don’t see how a warrior uses it offensively 1v1. Warrior would have to use it to stall out other cool downs because using it offensively won’t do any damage at all.

If I’m fighting said warrior I’m going to just eat the stuns and take the rampage time to refresh my own cool downs. Or I’ll take that time to burn him down (despite the damage reduction) because I’ll feel justified playing more aggressively when his damage is so significantly reduced.

Maybe most warriors will use rampage for partial durations and swap out to normal weapons for damage after a cc, but that is a pretty long cool down for one cc and other elites start to look better for them at that point, not because other elites are great but because new rampage will feel ineffective.

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@Vicariuz.1605 said:

@"Tycura.1982" said:I've been asking for this for a good while now. Honestly? Good riddance. Warrior has great elites that were overshadowed by rampage for too long.

Yeah signet is definitely on par with things like Prime Light Beam, Chilled to the bone, Dagger Storm, Mass Invis, Shiro/Glint elites, Renewed Focus, Strength of the Pack, Weave Self, FGS, etc.

That redundant 5 might/fury/swiftness really utilizes that elite slot well.

Bubble also is so good that people use any movement ability in the game, or dodge 1 time, and are outside of its effect.

Yeah warrior elites are top tier.

Tantrum needed a nerf, lets not pretend like warrior elites are "great" though.

Yes let's compare the worst warrior elite to the best elite of every other profession. What you should be doing instead is comparing the best warrior elite (rampage) to the best that every other class has to offer. Pre-nerf rampage put every single elite you mentioned here to shame. Everyone would love to have it available to their class. At the end of the day, every single profession has bad elites. Some simply have no good options at all, while others have only one that is insanely good. Others have a variety of not so bad options.

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@Vicariuz.1605 said:

@"Tycura.1982" said:I've been asking for this for a good while now. Honestly? Good riddance. Warrior has great elites that were overshadowed by rampage for too long.

Yeah signet is definitely on par with things like Prime Light Beam, Chilled to the bone, Dagger Storm, Mass Invis, Shiro/Glint elites, Renewed Focus, Strength of the Pack, Weave Self, FGS, etc.

That redundant 5 might/fury/swiftness really utilizes that elite slot well.

Bubble also is so good that people use any movement ability in the game, or dodge 1 time, and are outside of its effect.

Yeah warrior elites are top tier.

Tantrum needed a nerf, lets not pretend like warrior elites are "great" though.

I dunno brother banner is pretty versatile and a aoe boonstrip/projectile denial zone is pretty good.

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@"ButterPeanut.9746" said:I mean if they are going this route, then every single hard CC in the game should crit for 30 or less with 25might. Rifle 4 holo, both elites on rev, staff 5 on rev, LB4 on ranger, smoakscale knockdown on ranger, etc, etc.

What i was expecting from this change was that the power scaling was reduced to 0.01, but it still had some base damage. That way you'd get like 1-2k crits as opposed to 8-10k with 25might. Can't say i was expecting the 0.01 to bring it all the way down to critting for 30.That's what I expect for the next balance patch after their statement to take a look at the damage of all hard cc skills.

Combat Log: "You critically hit XYZ for 21 using [Executioner's Scythe]"

and after some players died laughing over this message, one patch later:

"Executioner's Scythe: This skill has been renamed to Chilling Scythe."

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@Tycura.1982 said:

@Tycura.1982 said:I've been asking for this for a good while now. Honestly? Good riddance. Warrior has great elites that were overshadowed by rampage for too long.

Yeah signet is definitely on par with things like Prime Light Beam, Chilled to the bone, Dagger Storm, Mass Invis, Shiro/Glint elites, Renewed Focus, Strength of the Pack, Weave Self, FGS, etc.

That redundant 5 might/fury/swiftness really utilizes that elite slot well.

Bubble also is so good that people use any movement ability in the game, or dodge 1 time, and are outside of its effect.

Yeah warrior elites are top tier.

Tantrum needed a nerf, lets not pretend like warrior elites are "great" though.

I dunno brother banner is pretty versatile and a aoe boonstrip/projectile denial zone is pretty good.

nono, banner is no where versatile, the CD is too long, it's deniable with poison/cleave and it's easily avoidable by teammate down states....mainly the CD is too long...the cast time is too obvious and too long with how little stab warrior gets now in good builds, like fb can easily mantra aegis/stab with heal or elite to res..the boons are meh, i would pick up as soon as possible for highest res uptime, and the aoe for boon is too small for how mobile the fight is in the current meta..

i'd take wind over banner, unless i'm running support.

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They should just get rid of the transformations elite skills once and for all. I really don't understand how ANet can enjoy that much keeping flawed design in it's game.

Let's be honest, when the transformations effectivness is superior or equal to it's numerous drawbacks, the transformation is OP. When it's the opposite, the transformation is just trash. There is no middle point, it's better to remove this junk instead of trying years after years to find a non existent middle point that would be shattered as soon as any other balance patch (even unrelated) kick in.

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