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Fatal nerf pvp-condi


Zraurum.8493

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Arena-net are you crazy? Why did you remove the mechanics of two fantasies from the staff and two clones from the scepter, which was tested by time, in the appendage you removed 50% of the duration of the vortex, and did not give anything in return except the idiotic skill chaotic interruption. Do you find it normal to just take and destroy the condition mirage assembly? If you so hate mirages, at least give support a branch for chrono at the firebrand level, and not its core. Return the clones and the duration of the states to their original value. Updated Condie Mirage in pvp is not playableP.S.I am not English speaking, but I just can’t tolerate the constant nerfs of my favorite class, so I wrote this appeal with the help of a translator.

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@Zraurum.8493 said:Arena-net are you crazy? Why did you remove the mechanics of two fantasies from the staff and two clones from the scepter, which was tested by time, in the appendage you removed 50% of the duration of the vortex, and did not give anything in return except the idiotic skill chaotic interruption. Do you find it normal to just take and destroy the condition mirage assembly? If you so hate mirages, at least give support a branch for chrono at the firebrand level, and not its core. Return the clones and the duration of the states to their original value. Updated Condie Mirage in pvp is not playableP.S.I am not English speaking, but I just can’t tolerate the constant nerfs of my favorite class, so I wrote this appeal with the help of a translator.

This is mesmer, we get nerfed by 50% back to back, yes its stupid, yes its here to stay.Buckle up becouse the 50% nerf train is here to stay :DJust look at the guard, whenever 1 thing gets nerfed, 3 other get buffed, us?? nanana eat that 50% nerf.I think they just wanna get rid of all playable condi builds at this point.

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what part of isn't justified? scepter 2 and staff 3 were creeped to 2 clones last year and became a big part of brainless clone spamvortex was the only ambush without a cutback on the clones (still like that ofc) - would've made more sense to leave player's ambush untouched and just cut back on the clones' dmg - but the nerf is deserved regardless

looking at bigger picture the nerfs are minor: holo got hit harder, condi thief should be gone - mostly mirage's biggest counter

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@Koen.1327 said:what part of isn't justified? scepter 2 and staff 3 were creeped to 2 clones last year and became a big part of brainless clone spamvortex was the only ambush without a cutback on the clones (still like that ofc) - would've made more sense to leave player's ambush untouched and just cut back on the clones' dmg - but the nerf is deserved regardless

looking at bigger picture the nerfs are minor: holo got hit harder, condi thief should be gone - mostly mirage's biggest counter

can you explain how cutting ambush damage by 50% and clone generation of weapon sets by 33% is minor?Holo was nerfed more becouse its busted against every single build in every single scenarion, cmirage has its niche and its very fucking good at it, what whiners wanna do is make mirage bad at its niche, but whiners dont realize that the niche is the only thing cmirage has.

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@Leonidrex.5649 said:can you explain how cutting ambush damage by 50% and clone generation of weapon sets by 33% is minor?Holo was nerfed more becouse its busted against every single build in every single scenarion, cmirage has its niche and its very kitten good at it, what whiners wanna do is make mirage bad at its niche, but whiners dont realize that the niche is the only thing cmirage has.

Condi duration isn't equal to damage

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@Gryxis.6950 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:can you explain how cutting ambush damage by 50% and clone generation of weapon sets by 33% is minor?Holo was nerfed more becouse its busted against every single build in every single scenarion, cmirage has its niche and its very kitten good at it, what whiners wanna do is make mirage bad at its niche, but whiners dont realize that the niche is the only thing cmirage has.

Condi duration isn't equal to damage

its like saying that swipe isnt half range of steal becouse you never use it at max range.

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Its interesting though a 50% nerf to something the weapon at its base level does not have at all..... so slotting mirage its more like a 50% gain still. At least only looking at the ambush.In any case its now low risk lower reward while axe shows itself to be higher risk higher reward (at least from the few people bumpped into using it.)Axe hurts its just not as safe as staff which is probably how it should be for the better.

Overall the patch was not the worst patch we have had and thats speaking from looking at what happened to everyone not just mesmer.

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@ZDragon.3046 said:Its interesting though a 50% nerf to something the weapon at its base level does not have at all..... so slotting mirage its more like a 50% gain still. At least only looking at the ambush.In any case its now low risk lower reward while axe shows itself to be higher risk higher reward (at least from the few people bumpped into using it.)Axe hurts its just not as safe as staff which is probably how it should be for the better.

Overall the patch was not the worst patch we have had and thats speaking from looking at what happened to everyone not just mesmer.

With all this, this happened for the first time, with the Mesmer, it comes from patch to patch, but if earlier you could somehow get out of there by correcting the traits in order to reduce the influence of the nerf, then now, they climbed into the mechanics of the clones and buried the condies staff as a class. I lost count of how many Mesmer nerfs were, starting from the nerf ax and ending with what we did yesterday.

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@Zraurum.8493 said:

@ZDragon.3046 said:Its interesting though a 50% nerf to something the weapon at its base level does not have at all..... so slotting mirage its more like a 50% gain still. At least only looking at the ambush.In any case its now low risk lower reward while axe shows itself to be higher risk higher reward (at least from the few people bumpped into using it.)Axe hurts its just not as safe as staff which is probably how it should be for the better.

Overall the patch was not the worst patch we have had and thats speaking from looking at what happened to everyone not just mesmer.

With all this, this happened for the first time, with the Mesmer, it comes from patch to patch, but if earlier you could somehow get out of there by correcting the traits in order to reduce the influence of the nerf, then now, they climbed into the mechanics of the clones and buried the condies staff as a class. I lost count of how many mesmer nerfs there were, starting from the ax nerf ending with what we did yesterday.

Other professions have had more nerfs imo than mesmer in general has. Mesmer just gets some really mean ones every 2 or 3 balances while everyone else for the most part maybe except Guardian gets lots of smaller nerfs each balance. Mesmer is known for skipping balance passes which leads to sudden hard nerfs once complaints reach a critical point. People knew staff ambush was a problem back before CI got nerfed if not way before them yet some how it made it all the way to yesterday before it got changed. Like had they just slowly toned it down over the past few patches it wouldnt have gotten a drastic immediate 50% cut that said Mirage still does not have its own shatters and people were not even encouraged to shatter while using a staff it has its own set of issues that anet still has not addressed.

People are already pointing fingers at insta burst core mesmer too. Dont be surprised if mantras get changed next. Based on what i saw being typed in game last night mesmers future is looking kinda grim.

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@ZDragon.3046 said:

@ZDragon.3046 said:Its interesting though a 50% nerf to something the weapon at its base level does not have at all..... so slotting mirage its more like a 50% gain still. At least only looking at the ambush.In any case its now low risk lower reward while axe shows itself to be higher risk higher reward (at least from the few people bumpped into using it.)Axe hurts its just not as safe as staff which is probably how it should be for the better.

Overall the patch was not the worst patch we have had and thats speaking from looking at what happened to everyone not just mesmer.

With all this, this happened for the first time, with the Mesmer, it comes from patch to patch, but if earlier you could somehow get out of there by correcting the traits in order to reduce the influence of the nerf, then now, they climbed into the mechanics of the clones and buried the condies staff as a class. I lost count of how many mesmer nerfs there were, starting from the ax nerf ending with what we did yesterday.

Other professions have had more nerfs imo than mesmer in general has. Mesmer just gets some really mean ones every 2 or 3 balances while everyone else for the most part maybe except Guardian gets lots of smaller nerfs each balance. Mesmer is known for skipping balance passes which leads to sudden hard nerfs once complaints reach a critical point. People knew staff ambush was a problem back before CI got nerfed if not way before them yet some how it made it all the way to yesterday before it got changed. Like had they just slowly toned it down over the past few patches it wouldnt have gotten a drastic immediate 50% cut that said Mirage still does not have its own shatters and people were not even encouraged to shatter while using a staff it has its own set of issues that anet still has not addressed.

People are already pointing fingers at insta burst core mesmer too. Dont be surprised if mantras get changed next. Based on what i saw being typed in game last night mesmers future is looking kinda grim.

Right now I went into the lobby to see just the characteristics, the chaos of the vortex became the same as the wind chaos, that is, in fact this skill became even worse than a normal nuke, as it is being delayed! This is how to correct the balance to make an elite spell worse than usual ...I didn’t look at the cut mechanics of the clones, since it was obvious that the staff of the build was unplayable

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@Zraurum.8493 said:

@ZDragon.3046 said:Its interesting though a 50% nerf to something the weapon at its base level does not have at all..... so slotting mirage its more like a 50% gain still. At least only looking at the ambush.In any case its now low risk lower reward while axe shows itself to be higher risk higher reward (at least from the few people bumpped into using it.)Axe hurts its just not as safe as staff which is probably how it should be for the better.

Overall the patch was not the worst patch we have had and thats speaking from looking at what happened to everyone not just mesmer.

With all this, this happened for the first time, with the Mesmer, it comes from patch to patch, but if earlier you could somehow get out of there by correcting the traits in order to reduce the influence of the nerf, then now, they climbed into the mechanics of the clones and buried the condies staff as a class. I lost count of how many mesmer nerfs there were, starting from the ax nerf ending with what we did yesterday.

Other professions have had more nerfs imo than mesmer in general has. Mesmer just gets some really mean ones every 2 or 3 balances while everyone else for the most part maybe except Guardian gets lots of smaller nerfs each balance. Mesmer is known for skipping balance passes which leads to sudden hard nerfs once complaints reach a critical point. People knew staff ambush was a problem back before CI got nerfed if not way before them yet some how it made it all the way to yesterday before it got changed. Like had they just slowly toned it down over the past few patches it wouldnt have gotten a drastic immediate 50% cut that said Mirage still does not have its own shatters and people were not even encouraged to shatter while using a staff it has its own set of issues that anet still has not addressed.

People are already pointing fingers at insta burst core mesmer too. Dont be surprised if mantras get changed next. Based on what i saw being typed in game last night mesmers future is looking kinda grim.

Right now I went into the lobby to see just the characteristics, the chaos of the vortex became the same as the wind chaos, that is, in fact this skill became even worse than a normal nuke, as it is being delayed! This is how to correct the balance to make an elite spell worse than usual ...I didn’t look at the cut mechanics of the clones, since it was obvious that the staff of the build was unplayable

I saw a few staff users last night but they didnt camp staff anymore they used it for a short moment but yeh its not insane anymore where you can just sit in staff for a solid 20s and know you are doing damage better than most other weapons in your outside of offhand pistol burst.

Ive gotten ripped up by a few axe mirages too i think people should invest in giving axe another shot.

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@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Koen.1327 said:what part of isn't justified? scepter 2 and staff 3 were creeped to 2 clones last year and became a big part of brainless clone spamvortex was the only ambush without a cutback on the clones (still like that ofc) - would've made more sense to leave player's ambush untouched and just cut back on the clones' dmg - but the nerf is deserved regardless

looking at bigger picture the nerfs are minor: holo got hit harder, condi thief should be gone - mostly mirage's biggest counter

can you explain how cutting ambush damage by 50% and clone generation of weapon sets by 33% is minor?Holo was nerfed more becouse its busted against every single build in every single scenarion, cmirage has its niche and its very kitten good at it, what whiners wanna do is make mirage bad at its niche, but whiners dont realize that the niche is the only thing cmirage has.

the 2 clones on sc2 and stafff 3 were overkill, only to fuel a weak shatter cuz you had 3 clones already anywaythe dmg loss is mainly from burn, which i find very minor

to put in perspective both holo and warrior, specs that actually can kill, lost quite some potential and condi thief is gone

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All this reminds me of a fragment from the movie Alien Two, when Commander Gorman orders Sergeant Eipon to take ammunition from all the infantrymen located in the alien’s nest. Motivating this by saying that infantrymen cannot be shot there, which gets a fair question, is the commander crazy ?

I have the same question for the arena
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@Koen.1327 said:

@Koen.1327 said:what part of isn't justified? scepter 2 and staff 3 were creeped to 2 clones last year and became a big part of brainless clone spamvortex was the only ambush without a cutback on the clones (still like that ofc) - would've made more sense to leave player's ambush untouched and just cut back on the clones' dmg - but the nerf is deserved regardless

looking at bigger picture the nerfs are minor: holo got hit harder, condi thief should be gone - mostly mirage's biggest counter

can you explain how cutting ambush damage by 50% and clone generation of weapon sets by 33% is minor?Holo was nerfed more becouse its busted against every single build in every single scenarion, cmirage has its niche and its very kitten good at it, what whiners wanna do is make mirage bad at its niche, but whiners dont realize that the niche is the only thing cmirage has.

the 2 clones on sc2 and stafff 3 were overkill, only to fuel a weak shatter cuz you had 3 clones already anywaythe dmg loss is mainly from burn, which i find very minor

to put in perspective both holo and warrior, specs that actually can kill, lost quite some potential and condi thief is gone

peeps dont see the point.mesmer is 80% garbage, 20% awesome chees.devs go bit by bit taking away our noodle mc cheese, and leave more and more garbage in its place.staff and scepter clones were NOT AN OVERKILL FOR MESMER.Prove it otherwise, take core or chrono and go WvW, show me how much shattering can be done my man.Take core or chrono and show me how much Shattering can be done in teamfights.Guess what, you create clone and insta shatter it, becouse they dont live more then 5s.Unless you run magnificent trait called IH. Too bad its mirage only. whoops.

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@ZDragon.3046 said:

@ZDragon.3046 said:Its interesting though a 50% nerf to something the weapon at its base level does not have at all..... so slotting mirage its more like a 50% gain still. At least only looking at the ambush.In any case its now low risk lower reward while axe shows itself to be higher risk higher reward (at least from the few people bumpped into using it.)Axe hurts its just not as safe as staff which is probably how it should be for the better.

Overall the patch was not the worst patch we have had and thats speaking from looking at what happened to everyone not just mesmer.

With all this, this happened for the first time, with the Mesmer, it comes from patch to patch, but if earlier you could somehow get out of there by correcting the traits in order to reduce the influence of the nerf, then now, they climbed into the mechanics of the clones and buried the condies staff as a class. I lost count of how many mesmer nerfs there were, starting from the ax nerf ending with what we did yesterday.

Other professions have had more nerfs imo than mesmer in general has. Mesmer just gets some really mean ones every 2 or 3 balances while everyone else for the most part maybe except Guardian gets lots of smaller nerfs each balance. Mesmer is known for skipping balance passes which leads to sudden hard nerfs once complaints reach a critical point. People knew staff ambush was a problem back before CI got nerfed if not way before them yet some how it made it all the way to yesterday before it got changed. Like had they just slowly toned it down over the past few patches it wouldnt have gotten a drastic immediate 50% cut that said Mirage still does not have its own shatters and people were not even encouraged to shatter while using a staff it has its own set of issues that anet still has not addressed.

Mesmer and Mirage have been nerfed way more than any other class we have had entire traits removed multiple times. I mean what happened to chrono? Seriously, mesmer has been nerfed over and over in very impactful ways that most of the time resulted in limiting trait and build options to the point that most mesmers all use the same stuff now BECAUSE EVERYTHING HAS BEEN NERFED TO HELL. For instance, even things none of us even think of like focus off hand to reflect has been nerfed. So many kitten things have been nerfed soon as people tried to use them in pvp and never really retuned and then other things get nerfed without any give back or new option being made. At least back in 2017 we got some changes to create new options (which directed people away from things like axe).

People are already pointing fingers at insta burst core mesmer too. Dont be surprised if mantras get changed next. Based on what i saw being typed in game last night mesmers future is looking kinda grim.

Right now I went into the lobby to see just the characteristics, the chaos of the vortex became the same as the wind chaos, that is, in fact this skill became even worse than a normal nuke, as it is being delayed! This is how to correct the balance to make an elite spell worse than usual ...I didn’t look at the cut mechanics of the clones, since it was obvious that the staff of the build was unplayableThey nerfed the condition durations on the ambush to half which aguably makes staff worse than it was before it got buffed back in 2017 which is when people started to consider using it in the first place in pvp again. Staff was never that great, the point of using as mirage is for that ambush and in general as mesmer was always for the 2 phants on a short timer. without those the protection from traiting staff via chaos should arguably just become base for chaos storm at the very least so it at least retains utility while allowing for other traits to be used with it to create more options.

I saw a few staff users last night but they didnt camp staff anymore they used it for a short moment but yeh its not insane anymore where you can just sit in staff for a solid 20s and know you are doing damage better than most other weapons in your outside of offhand pistol burst.

If people sit on staff then they are using clones and ambush which has ramp up time vs spawning the clones and using to shatter. It becomes risky and higher skill to use staff this way since any decent opponent will just cleave down the clones and damage or expose the Mesmer in the process .

Ive gotten ripped up by a few axe mirages too i think people should invest in giving axe another shot.Axe is mostly garbage in wvw/pvp. Yes, the damage "can" be good if you compare it to present nerf levels on other options, however, that ignores how bad the axe mechanics are. Granted I used axe long time and will agree it can work and when it does it can be fun. That said, the 600 range on the shadow step for 3 and the fact that its meager 3/4s evade is tied to this 600 range AND if it works you are teleporting to the opponent is suicide in many match-ups (warrior, reaper, etc). What in fact often happens with axe 3 is you try to execute it but the evade doesn't go off either due to range or de-targeting. Additionally, The damage on axe and its conditions have been nerfed multiple times which made it less rewarding vs the high risk which is exactly why myself and others stopped using it like a year or so ago. The suggestion we should all now go back to it is pretty ridiculous. From my recent experience axe mirage is still very easy to take out these days and with all the other nerfs that impact things like energy regen, mirage cloak evade window, ambush damage I would say its as bad an option as anything else probably worse at present since the current meta typically requires better sustain so anyone trying to use axe is either going to be swapping weapons to staff or scepter for defense/utility or moving off point (loss of point control), either way it doesn't suggest axe is good.

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@Moradorin.6217 said:

@ZDragon.3046 said:Its interesting though a 50% nerf to something the weapon at its base level does not have at all..... so slotting mirage its more like a 50% gain still. At least only looking at the ambush.In any case its now low risk lower reward while axe shows itself to be higher risk higher reward (at least from the few people bumpped into using it.)Axe hurts its just not as safe as staff which is probably how it should be for the better.

Overall the patch was not the worst patch we have had and thats speaking from looking at what happened to everyone not just mesmer.

With all this, this happened for the first time, with the Mesmer, it comes from patch to patch, but if earlier you could somehow get out of there by correcting the traits in order to reduce the influence of the nerf, then now, they climbed into the mechanics of the clones and buried the condies staff as a class. I lost count of how many mesmer nerfs there were, starting from the ax nerf ending with what we did yesterday.

Other professions have had more nerfs imo than mesmer in general has. Mesmer just gets some really mean ones every 2 or 3 balances while everyone else for the most part maybe except Guardian gets lots of smaller nerfs each balance. Mesmer is known for skipping balance passes which leads to sudden hard nerfs once complaints reach a critical point. People knew staff ambush was a problem back before CI got nerfed if not way before them yet some how it made it all the way to yesterday before it got changed. Like had they just slowly toned it down over the past few patches it wouldnt have gotten a drastic immediate 50% cut that said Mirage still does not have its own shatters and people were not even encouraged to shatter while using a staff it has its own set of issues that anet still has not addressed.

Mesmer and Mirage have been nerfed way more than any other class we have had entire traits removed multiple times. I mean what happened to chrono? Seriously, mesmer has been nerfed over and over in very impactful ways that most of the time resulted in limiting trait and build options to the point that most mesmers all use the same stuff now BECAUSE EVERYTHING HAS BEEN NERFED TO HELL. For instance, even things none of us even think of like focus off hand to reflect has been nerfed. So many kitten things have been nerfed soon as people tried to use them in pvp and never really retuned and then other things get nerfed without any give back or new option being made. At least back in 2017 we got some changes to create new options (which directed people away from things like axe).

People are already pointing fingers at insta burst core mesmer too. Dont be surprised if mantras get changed next. Based on what i saw being typed in game last night mesmers future is looking kinda grim.

Right now I went into the lobby to see just the characteristics, the chaos of the vortex became the same as the wind chaos, that is, in fact this skill became even worse than a normal nuke, as it is being delayed! This is how to correct the balance to make an elite spell worse than usual ...I didn’t look at the cut mechanics of the clones, since it was obvious that the staff of the build was unplayableThey nerfed the condition durations on the ambush to half which aguably makes staff worse than it was before it got buffed back in 2017 which is when people started to consider using it in the first place in pvp again. Staff was never that great, the point of using as mirage is for that ambush and in general as mesmer was always for the 2 phants on a short timer. without those the protection from traiting staff via chaos should arguably just become base for chaos storm at the very least so it at least retains utility while allowing for other traits to be used with it to create more options.

I saw a few staff users last night but they didnt camp staff anymore they used it for a short moment but yeh its not insane anymore where you can just sit in staff for a solid 20s and know you are doing damage better than most other weapons in your outside of offhand pistol burst.

If people sit on staff then they are using clones and ambush which has ramp up time vs spawning the clones and using to shatter. It becomes risky and higher skill to use staff this way since any decent opponent will just cleave down the clones and damage or expose the Mesmer in the process .

Ive gotten ripped up by a few axe mirages too i think people should invest in giving axe another shot.Axe is mostly garbage in wvw/pvp. Yes, the damage "can" be good if you compare it to present nerf levels on other options, however, that ignores how bad the axe mechanics are. Granted I used axe long time and will agree it can work and when it does it can be fun. That said, the 600 range on the shadow step for 3 and the fact that its meager 3/4s evade is tied to this 600 range AND if it works you are teleporting to the opponent is suicide in many match-ups (warrior, reaper, etc). What in fact often happens with axe 3 is you try to execute it but the evade doesn't go off either due to range or de-targeting. Additionally, The damage on axe and its conditions have been nerfed multiple times which made it less rewarding vs the high risk which is exactly why myself and others stopped using it like a year or so ago. The suggestion we should all now go back to it is pretty ridiculous. From my recent experience axe mirage is still very easy to take out these days and with all the other nerfs that impact things like energy regen, mirage cloak evade window, ambush damage I would say its as bad an option as anything else probably worse at present since the current meta typically requires better sustain so anyone trying to use axe is either going to be swapping weapons to staff or scepter for defense/utility or moving off point (loss of point control), either way it doesn't suggest axe is good.

In my opinion now scepter pistol / axe torch is the best condi setup available ....i don't love scepter and i hate the fact that it has no "in fight mobility" as staff 2 , but i think now, for a condi setup it is the easiest and more rewording. My favourite weapon of mesmer is sword ( not gs ) but i don't see a real use of that now becouse even in a power setup , using sword in melee is always an high risk

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@Gryxis.6950 said:

its like saying that swipe isnt half range of steal becouse you never use it at max range.

It's really not. Haven't you heard of condi cleanses ? I'm pretty sure most classes have quite a few

and sometimes enemies are at close range and the steal doesnt need 1200 range.everything can be argued that way.rampage dealing 20 dmg wasnt 99% nerf, becouse sometimes oponents are at 20 hp so 10k dmg is not needed.

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@Moradorin.6217 said:

@ZDragon.3046 said:Its interesting though a 50% nerf to something the weapon at its base level does not have at all..... so slotting mirage its more like a 50% gain still. At least only looking at the ambush.In any case its now low risk lower reward while axe shows itself to be higher risk higher reward (at least from the few people bumpped into using it.)Axe hurts its just not as safe as staff which is probably how it should be for the better.

Overall the patch was not the worst patch we have had and thats speaking from looking at what happened to everyone not just mesmer.

With all this, this happened for the first time, with the Mesmer, it comes from patch to patch, but if earlier you could somehow get out of there by correcting the traits in order to reduce the influence of the nerf, then now, they climbed into the mechanics of the clones and buried the condies staff as a class. I lost count of how many mesmer nerfs there were, starting from the ax nerf ending with what we did yesterday.

Other professions have had more nerfs imo than mesmer in general has. Mesmer just gets some really mean ones every 2 or 3 balances while everyone else for the most part maybe except Guardian gets lots of smaller nerfs each balance. Mesmer is known for skipping balance passes which leads to sudden hard nerfs once complaints reach a critical point. People knew staff ambush was a problem back before CI got nerfed if not way before them yet some how it made it all the way to yesterday before it got changed. Like had they just slowly toned it down over the past few patches it wouldnt have gotten a drastic immediate 50% cut that said Mirage still does not have its own shatters and people were not even encouraged to shatter while using a staff it has its own set of issues that anet still has not addressed.

Mesmer and Mirage have been nerfed way more than any other class we have had entire traits removed multiple times. I mean what happened to chrono? Seriously, mesmer has been nerfed over and over in very impactful ways that most of the time resulted in limiting trait and build options to the point that most mesmers all use the same stuff now BECAUSE EVERYTHING HAS BEEN NERFED TO HELL. For instance, even things none of us even think of like focus off hand to reflect has been nerfed. So many kitten things have been nerfed soon as people tried to use them in pvp and never really retuned and then other things get nerfed without any give back or new option being made. At least back in 2017 we got some changes to create new options (which directed people away from things like axe).

People are already pointing fingers at insta burst core mesmer too. Dont be surprised if mantras get changed next. Based on what i saw being typed in game last night mesmers future is looking kinda grim.

Right now I went into the lobby to see just the characteristics, the chaos of the vortex became the same as the wind chaos, that is, in fact this skill became even worse than a normal nuke, as it is being delayed! This is how to correct the balance to make an elite spell worse than usual ...I didn’t look at the cut mechanics of the clones, since it was obvious that the staff of the build was unplayableThey nerfed the condition durations on the ambush to half which aguably makes staff worse than it was before it got buffed back in 2017 which is when people started to consider using it in the first place in pvp again. Staff was never that great, the point of using as mirage is for that ambush and in general as mesmer was always for the 2 phants on a short timer. without those the protection from traiting staff via chaos should arguably just become base for chaos storm at the very least so it at least retains utility while allowing for other traits to be used with it to create more options.

I saw a few staff users last night but they didnt camp staff anymore they used it for a short moment but yeh its not insane anymore where you can just sit in staff for a solid 20s and know you are doing damage better than most other weapons in your outside of offhand pistol burst.

If people sit on staff then they are using clones and ambush which has ramp up time vs spawning the clones and using to shatter. It becomes risky and higher skill to use staff this way since any decent opponent will just cleave down the clones and damage or expose the Mesmer in the process .

Ive gotten ripped up by a few axe mirages too i think people should invest in giving axe another shot.Axe is mostly garbage in wvw/pvp. Yes, the damage "can" be good if you compare it to present nerf levels on other options, however, that ignores how bad the axe mechanics are. Granted I used axe long time and will agree it can work and when it does it can be fun. That said, the 600 range on the shadow step for 3 and the fact that its meager 3/4s evade is tied to this 600 range AND if it works you are teleporting to the opponent is suicide in many match-ups (warrior, reaper, etc). What in fact often happens with axe 3 is you try to execute it but the evade doesn't go off either due to range or de-targeting. Additionally, The damage on axe and its conditions have been nerfed multiple times which made it less rewarding vs the high risk which is exactly why myself and others stopped using it like a year or so ago. The suggestion we should all now go back to it is pretty ridiculous. From my recent experience axe mirage is still very easy to take out these days and with all the other nerfs that impact things like energy regen, mirage cloak evade window, ambush damage I would say its as bad an option as anything else probably worse at present since the current meta typically requires better sustain so anyone trying to use axe is either going to be swapping weapons to staff or scepter for defense/utility or moving off point (loss of point control), either way it doesn't suggest axe is good.

All i can say for most of this is that i dont agree based on my experince in playing the game, reading patch notes, using chrono was a fine example. Everyone knew chrono was up for changes and time and time again it slipped through balance passes. When its time finally came it got hit hard with some harsh changes while others got minor wirst taps during that particular patch after all they had already had their slam dunks in the previous patch or two if not way before then.

Anet had already said that elites without trade offs would get them and in the patch that enforced them on most other elites if i recall (could be slightly incorrect here) mesmer or chrono and mirage managed to escape that patch some how and on the very next patch balance chrono got hit turning it into what it is today.

I would say mesmer is always late to the party with balance but most certainly does not see more nerfs than any other profession sees.

im not going to argue about what you think about mirage axe after all you are entitled to your own opinion on it and im entitled to mine.

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@hanabal lecter.2495 said:Let this be guys atleast let's play a game, speculate what the next nerf will be? My money is people will start to qq about sceptre 2 or staff 2 now and want a cd increase.

Its still gonna be IHthen Mirage Doge when stunned.Then PeRmA dOdGe.Its also gonna be 1shot mesmer no counterlay QQ.after that its gonna be Mes has perma 20+ might.Oh wait all of those happend already :D

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@Leonidrex.5649 said:

and sometimes enemies are at close range and the steal doesnt need 1200 range.everything can be argued that way.rampage dealing 20 dmg wasnt 99% nerf, becouse sometimes oponents are at 20 hp so 10k dmg is not needed.

I'm saying condi duration isn't equal to damage and you're here saying that's like saying range isn't equal to range and damage isn't equal to damage ? That just doesn't make sense. Condi cleansing is stronger against long duration conditions than it is against low duration conditions, which means that a 50% condi duration nerf most of the time isn't a 50% damage nerf. If you make a condi from 1 stack for 4s to 2 stacks for 2s, it's a buff. I thought everyone knew that

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@Gryxis.6950 said:

and sometimes enemies are at close range and the steal doesnt need 1200 range.everything can be argued that way.rampage dealing 20 dmg wasnt 99% nerf, becouse sometimes oponents are at 20 hp so 10k dmg is not needed.

I'm saying condi duration isn't equal to damage and you're here saying that's like saying range isn't equal to range and damage isn't equal to damage ? That just doesn't make sense. Condi cleansing is stronger against long duration conditions than it is against low duration conditions, which means that a 50% condi duration nerf most of the time isn't a 50% damage nerf. If you make a condi from 1 stack for 4s to 2 stacks for 2s, it's a buff. I thought everyone knew that

cleansing is as strong as your eyesight and reaction time, its not a rocketscience to quickly cleanse 10burn stacks.To OP, Cmirage will still be in OK spot, unless meta revolves around bunch of tifs fb and revenants that might be the case.If every team looks like 2x FB + 2x Rev + Tif then tough shit mate :D

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