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Why do so few people care about figthing?


Sansar.1302

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@displayname.8315 said:It's driven by the pugs now. The guilds all quit. Rule #1 is No tag = dead map.

Even with tag might not get fights.. depends on numbers and skill level. If the pugs are terribad commander will not fight.

really? in my experience: no

just this weekened outside of prime time one of our keeps was attacked by an organzied enemy group - and people just came an defended. Without a tag. Sucessfully. Sometimes a tag is nothing more than a map marker. You can do without.

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because it turned into:

  • go in stealth
  • approach enemy
  • be the first to land rev hammer 3 spike

it has nothing to do with skill anymore, it has nothing to do with fighting.

a fight game must be designed so no matter if you win or lose it must be a fun experience no matter who wins.in gw2 wvw after first fight 5 people of the loser team leave the squad. so much for the „fun game“.

i have no reason to play it after work anymore, just log in for daily login rewards and off directly.

if a game is shit people look for other fillup of their free time, its not that anyone needs wvw or gw2 to have a hobby. ;)

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To all the people saying "attacking or defending objectives creates fights", yes you will encounter enemies, but standing in arrow cart fire while ramming the door for the 1000th time gets really boring. If you are an organized group and the enemy is just a bunch of pugs, there is no way they are going to do anything but hit you with siege and run away. Taking every objective doesnt usually result in interesting combat. Typically there are at most a couple organized groups your size you can fight, and you have to run around the map looking for them, while ignoring the group of 5-10 pugs with a single cata taking your t1 tower. Contrary to what people seem to be saying, most fight guilds want to fight equal sized groups of similar skill, without the BS of siege and pug clouds.

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@SlateSloan.3654 said:because it turned into:

  • go in stealth
  • approach enemy
  • be the first to land rev hammer 3 spike

it has nothing to do with skill anymore, it has nothing to do with fighting.

a fight game must be designed so no matter if you win or lose it must be a fun experience no matter who wins.in gw2 wvw after first fight 5 people of the loser team leave the squad. so much for the „fun game“.

i have no reason to play it after work anymore, just log in for daily login rewards and off directly.

if a game is kitten people look for other fillup of their free time, its not that anyone needs wvw or gw2 to have a hobby. ;)

That really depends on the server to be honest. In some servers it is true that 5+ people leave instantly after 1 fight. But on fight servers it seems to be the opposite effect, if people starts dying then there usually pops up a q since there are fights so people decides to actually log in to fight (unless if lossing literally more than 5-10 fights in a row then the q might slow down).

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Like right now I am alone from my team on alpine, there are 3 blues who does all in their power to upgrading towers etc, two of them diamond legends running mirage, beat them one time and now all they do is running as a grp, me and a red thief have absolutely no chance 1 vs 2 mirage and a guardian. Running core ranger myself have no problem killing them 1vs1 might get them 1vs 2 but 1v s 3 WHAT IS THE POINT

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@"VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.3618" said:

@"displayname.8315" said:It's driven by the pugs now. The guilds all quit. Rule #1 is No tag = dead map.

Even with tag might not get fights.. depends on numbers and skill level. If the pugs are terribad commander will not fight.

really? in my experience: no

just this weekened outside of prime time one of our keeps was attacked by an organzied enemy group - and people just came an defended. Without a tag. Sucessfully. Sometimes a tag is nothing more than a map marker. You can do without.

Organized enemy group huh. Those little fights can be fun when you have the door portals and walls. Those kind of "threats" aren't as organized as one might perceive.

"Organized" fights are really rare anymore and usually one sided.

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@Jayden Reese.9542 said:Because most of you solo dudes looking for fights only run some op or cheeze build and spend your entire day jumping players and either killing them quickly or god forbid you get a good fight and start losing you easily disengage and mobility off because it wasn't an easy fight. You run w ascended food 18 plus 5 infusions a pure single target pvp spec which is nerfed in spvp so you can only run it in wvw. Your day is 30-1 record except the times you get adds and that's so unfair because they all should line up and 1v1 and get slaughtered so you cry no one wants to fight. NO it's we play the mode the way it designed to with taking and defending objectives killing whoever but eventually we learn the guys that run the instant they losing and just ignore them or team up to jump them because they constantly attack newer or average skill players all day. Looking at eb guy gutz guy and any ie member and dozens of others we learn are a waste of our time unless nothing going on or we bored

This.

There is very few roamers who actually roam for good fights. 90% are more gankers trying to burst away some players catching up to the public on a blob build. My respect and condolences to the actual roamers for gankers giving them a bad name.

While Spvp is mostly a dead game mode, that's the place to go if you ACTUALLY want to get some good fights 1v1 or 1v2 depending on what rank you are.

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@displayname.8315 said:

@"VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.3618" said:

@displayname.8315 said:It's driven by the pugs now. The guilds all quit. Rule #1 is No tag = dead map.

Even with tag might not get fights.. depends on numbers and skill level. If the pugs are terribad commander will not fight.

really? in my experience: no

just this weekened outside of prime time one of our keeps was attacked by an organzied enemy group - and people just came an defended. Without a tag. Sucessfully. Sometimes a tag is nothing more than a map marker. You can do without.

Organized enemy group huh. Those little fights can be fun when you have the door portals and walls. Those kind of "threats" aren't as organized as one might perceive.

"Organized" fights are really rare anymore and usually one sided.

yes, which is why ppl should try draft mode =)

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@Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:

and absolutely only fight with advantage.

This reminds me of a certain saying: If you find yourself in a fair fight, then you're bad at tactics.

This. It's basic Sun Tsu really ... fair fights aren't really a thing. Objectives SHOULD offer natural advantages to defenders, it's a perfect way to handicap the game - teams that attack are usually more organised(at least have a commander) and/or bigger. Over the years the devs have tweaked the balance around objectives making it both quicker and easier to capture them, whilst at the same time offering automatic stuff to defenders that discourages people from running small scale tasks. It's as if someone reduced crafting from 500 to 200 levels. It makes sense, eliminates stuff people can't be bothered with, but it's less interesting.

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@"Paradoxoglanis.1904" said:To all the people saying "attacking or defending objectives creates fights", yes you will encounter enemies, but standing in arrow cart fire while ramming the door for the 1000th time gets really boring. If you are an organized group and the enemy is just a bunch of pugs, there is no way they are going to do anything but hit you with siege and run away. Taking every objective doesnt usually result in interesting combat. Typically there are at most a couple organized groups your size you can fight, and you have to run around the map looking for them, while ignoring the group of 5-10 pugs with a single cata taking your t1 tower. Contrary to what people seem to be saying, most fight guilds want to fight equal sized groups of similar skill, without the BS of siege and pug clouds.

This has alot more to do with siege than objectives.

If you could just destroy that fort door with your attacks like in every other RvR game on the market from the last 20 years and take a tower with a five man party and no slow siege like Flame Rams, and the enemy team had a chance at retaking it even if they only had a few players due to no siege spam, constant supply running/ganking, etc. then you'd feel very differently about the overall premise of objectives.

This is the only RvR game I've seen with such an obsession with siege, upgrades, PvE instead of PvP, etc. The whole thing seems interesting on paper but outside of blobbing at peak times its just a snoozefest that favors the side with more players.

Its ironic because siege is made to be anti-zerg tools but everything about the design favors zergs.

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@"Paradoxoglanis.1904" said:To all the people saying "attacking or defending objectives creates fights", yes you will encounter enemies, but standing in arrow cart fire while ramming the door for the 1000th time gets really boring. If you are an organized group and the enemy is just a bunch of pugs, there is no way they are going to do anything but hit you with siege and run away. Taking every objective doesnt usually result in interesting combat. Typically there are at most a couple organized groups your size you can fight, and you have to run around the map looking for them, while ignoring the group of 5-10 pugs with a single cata taking your t1 tower. Contrary to what people seem to be saying, most fight guilds want to fight equal sized groups of similar skill, without the BS of siege and pug clouds.

yeah, just like us pugs on the weekend, when the red blob had destroyed all our siege and we just hit them with lava, meteors, rev hammers and barrages and then went all over the wall. Winning.

That was a fight. A fight not decided by siege, but by situational awareness and determination.

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I think many people do like fights. The issue is they don't want or care if it's a fair or challenging fight.

I've lost interest in the mode for many reasons. And only come in do to wood chests or dailies.

Most fights are either outnumbered us v them or vice versa. Result - bigger group wins unless the bigger group is reallyunorganised. Equal numbers is a mixed bag.

Or

OP/broken/cheese gank builds either on own, twos or three's. Perma stealth Deadeye, evade staff daredevil, lol which one is the real me? Mesmer,invul...block...0... invuln warriors, pew pew from afar soulbeasts, constant barrier weaver and so on.

Now I do like to run behind enemy lines and take camps. But lately on my travels All I encounter 99% these days are these Op builds that are just apain to fight and almost impossible to beat. It's just unfun. But so is mindlessly running around in a zerg. The mode is just not fun or rewarding enoughfor me any more.

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@"Ben.2160" said:I think many people do like fights. The issue is they don't want or care if it's a fair or challenging fight.

I've lost interest in the mode for many reasons. And only come in do to wood chests or dailies.

Most fights are either outnumbered us v them or vice versa. Result - bigger group wins unless the bigger group is reallyunorganised. Equal numbers is a mixed bag.

Or

OP/broken/cheese gank builds either on own, twos or three's. Perma stealth Deadeye, evade staff daredevil, lol which one is the real me? Mesmer,invul...block...0... invuln warriors, pew pew from afar soulbeasts, constant barrier weaver and so on.

Now I do like to run behind enemy lines and take camps. But lately on my travels All I encounter 99% these days are these Op builds that are just apain to fight and almost impossible to beat. It's just unfun. But so is mindlessly running around in a zerg. The mode is just not fun or rewarding enoughfor me any more.

Lately ive seen the least amount of op builds than I have in a long time. I see the odd god mode weaver, the lucky 8 clone condi mirage (cant think of any other "op' builds)

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@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Jayden Reese.9542 said:Because most of you solo dudes looking for fights only run some op or cheeze build and spend your entire day jumping players and either killing them quickly or god forbid you get a good fight and start losing you easily disengage and mobility off because it wasn't an easy fight. You run w ascended food 18 plus 5 infusions a pure single target pvp spec which is nerfed in spvp so you can only run it in wvw. Your day is 30-1 record except the times you get adds and that's so unfair because they all should line up and 1v1 and get slaughtered so you cry no one wants to fight. NO it's we play the mode the way it designed to with taking and defending objectives killing whoever but eventually we learn the guys that run the instant they losing and just ignore them or team up to jump them because they constantly attack newer or average skill players all day. Looking at eb guy gutz guy and any ie member and dozens of others we learn are a waste of our time unless nothing going on or we bored

This.

There is very few roamers who actually roam for good fights. 90% are more gankers trying to burst away some players catching up to the public on a blob build. My respect and condolences to the actual roamers for gankers giving them a bad name.

While Spvp is mostly a dead game mode, that's the place to go if you ACTUALLY want to get some good fights 1v1 or 1v2 depending on what rank you are.

Yup pretty much. If i see another player anymore and im by myself i WP very quickly. Im not capable nor will i ever be capable of fighting one on one, and honestly its less fun. Ive started playing DE lately just so i can stealth and run away so i can keep going about capturing camps and killing yaks and guards without fighting players, thank god for that.

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WvW Forumites: We want more fights!!!

Also WvW Forumites: Plays burst + full escape kit, hit and run build which hits 20% of the time and runs 80%.

Everyone else: /shrugs, then run the opposite direction which results in no fight happening through to completion.

**this is a direct result of demanding "high risk high reward" builds, getting what you wished for, then min maxing to minimize the risk. No one wants to fight that, so they simply bounce the first time an entire escape kit is blown to reset after the first failed burst. No one wants to play against the "let me reset the fight as many times as I fail until I finally win" builds.

AKA - People didnt really want high risk high reward. They just couched their feedback into those terms to make it sound convincing, and are now running around on a low risk high reward build wondering why no one else other than the other 8 people per tier who are ALSO running around on low risk high reward builds, wants fights.

The bunker meta folks complained about supposedly not requiring any skill in the past, actually required multiplicitively more skill than the current meta does. Full escape kits can be hard countered simply by running in the other direction with swiftness on.

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@Sansar.1302 said:What mindset do these players have ?Why do so few people care about figthing?

Let me start of by saying, personally, I care about fighting so long as it's entertaining and ultimately feels like I'm achieving something in game worth my time. I would purposely roam/havoc and purposely risk being outnumbered x2 or x3 at least because I generally, by far, found more of a challenge that way. After all it's not exactly like WvW does a wonderful job of pairing opponents on a similar skill level. Anyways, back to your questions...

The simple answer would be... Because @Anet.

The longer answer would be...Because @Anet slowly (because WvW was widely neglected (and is still widely neglected)) created an environment (WvW) for which, over the years, has gradually (especially in later years) attracted a much less competitive player base different from what originally started with the game back in 2012. There is little to no incentive to actually compete. We are to compete over points over a very lengthy period of time with population balance issues across the board and with little if anything to show for it... Amazing. Though, I guess this is a sandbox like mode with no incentives/real goals. However, because there is a poor (if any) incentive to compete... We are just gonna see more and more people left with a mindset to not really want to do anything more than farm the mode rather than actually play it.

Maybe someone want's to play just for fun?... That's cool, but chances are the person you're wanting to fight against has plenty problems with the games "balance" these days just as likely as the next guy. So, having honest "fun" (most of the time) gets to be... Let's say, quite a bit more questionable at that point considering that. The reason WvW carried it's more competitive minded players for as long as it has was because, for some, there was this illusion that "winning" still mattered (talking from experience with others), community/friends (the social aspect) and balance was better; so fighting (win or lose) was much more respectful regarding the outcome.

So the mindset we got more of. Is the mindset Anet gradually attracted more of. What?... Did they think they were gonna heavily attract the PvP player base with the PvE derived mount idea? Of course not I'm sure. Therefore, @Anet with all due respect, but how about attract an audience that actually likes to fight to begin with (similar to the OP) the next time you add something. Just my two cents is all :)

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The combat system is the worst part of this game, and it's only gone downhill with time. I still get fairly constant (small) fights because I play around objectives, but I don't log on much because those fights just aren't all that fun anymore and the objectives are meaningless outside of generating fights.

So I think it's a combination of people ignoring objectives in small scale, not bothering to fight for objectives in large-scale because those fights are one-sided and whoever wins the first will win all the rest, and having nothing to fight for since points mean nearly nothing and it's not very fun in and of itself.

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i think it is because the reward from fights is very little by comparing with Ktrain or the other contents, even the WXP gaining is not that stable because there might be no enemies today but camps/ towers/ keeps are always there...

i'm still running with fight guild every night because the fight is fun for me, but while fighting in WvW can only provide fun and no other rewards, you can expect that it will only get a little people enjoy it, because this "fun" is not for everyone.

but then there will be a lot of keyboard warriors jump out and yell something like bandwagon and huge blob will get advantage...

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