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Why do so few people care about figthing?


Sansar.1302

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See many complain about balance, have all classes at 80 with elite specs unlocked.Have tried solo roaming with all, some more than other ofc.I think balance is pretty good as even necro got a spec where it can solo roam quite nice.What I had to do where to get over my fondness of the visual style on my specs and go fore the things that actually preform.There is some hard counters but not many at all.So many people run around with total garbage specs with no clue how to use the class in wvw and esp solo.Makes me sad when they play the more powerfull smal scalers like mirage and port or run when they see me, only fight when they can 1v2+ :(

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@ArchonWing.9480 said:The concept of failure in gaming is unacceptable these days. Everyone's gotta be a winner.

And when it comes down to it, people just want to win, regardless of how they do it.

There are a lot of good posts in this thread but I think this may be the best. But it still misses the point in that anet has addressed this by removing all of the consequences from 'losing'. So if you look at how the mode is designed 'losing' in wvw isn't a failure, it's just part of the game. But players don't seem to be able to see it that way, so they avoid fights if they think there is a chance they might lose :/

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well there's still the "fighting tags" around sometimes that specifically seek fights. they only siege stuff to attract enemy zergs or blobs so some fights happen. quite common @ EU t1.

@"VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.3618" said:

@displayname.8315 said:It's driven by the pugs now. The guilds all quit. Rule #1 is No tag = dead map.

Even with tag might not get fights.. depends on numbers and skill level. If the pugs are terribad commander will not fight.

really? in my experience: no

just this weekened outside of prime time one of our keeps was attacked by an organzied enemy group - and people just came an defended. Without a tag. Sucessfully. Sometimes a tag is nothing more than a map marker. You can do without.

thats acutally kinda random. sometimes people gather up and do something, like flip a tower, cloud enemies and defend a keep - others just afk once there is no tag around or engage pointless (they probably find it entertaining or practice) smallscale skirmishes with enemy roamer groups (8-15 people groups)

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I think alot of it is also lack of end-game. True, WvW is the end-game of the end-game, but WvW itself has no end-game, you just capture objectives and fight other players and increase your score and you invest lots of time into this for.. what?

It'd be better if like, as a reward for holding objectives for a duration, you could assault their main camp, kill the Legendary Defenders there and then enter the portals, taking you to a special (non-PvE) version of a destroyed Lion's Arch that's a warzone where server tiers temporarily don't exist; just red, blue and green across all servers in the region making their last stand in "Tyria" after winning/losing the Mist War.

Something similar is implemented in almost every RvR game I've played. In GW2 WvW just..ends when you capture stuff.

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@Junkpile.7439 said:

  • because match last week when 4 hours would be more than enough
  • I don't have motivation fight against players who play some weird cancer specs/class
  • winning a fight doesn't give you anything
  • your side lose all fights if they don't read metabattle and follow commander like some sheeps
  • tbh the skirmish is what matters and that time is perfect.
  • If you dont fight them, you will never learn to beat them, thus you are messing yourself over by not trying to enjoy the game mode by learning to beat them (thus they no longer become a problem for you...this is a l2p issue)
  • Ive gotten ascended and a precursor from winning fights so I can confirm this isnt true. This may be due to avoiding a bunch of fights as you have stated above where I try to fight everything I can.
  • Ive seen many groups (including my havoc group) win fights against bigger coordinated groups and most of us do not run meta (actually...I dont think many of us does). This reason could also be summed up as l2p.

What builds do you have trouble with and what do you play? Some of us may be able to help you out :)

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The majority of the players in this game never wanted to fight. It was always about boasting, gloating and bag farming.Almost all of the "self-proclaimed fight guilds" worked that way. They tried to stack to a certain server to avoid fighting each other or just left after losing a fight because the "others are stacked". If they really were in it for fights, they had spread all over the servers not to one or two. The whole gvg scene was about this in the last few years. You are a big fight guild but you lost 5:1 vs another one? It was a scrim, your setup wasn't perfect, your drivers dog was ill, etc.But why fight vs. good guilds when you can run over pugs all day while hiding in SMC behind some walls?

Same goes for the majority of "self-proclaimed" roamers. They pick a easy to master fotm class, run around, shooting people that run to their zergs, evading any 1v1 just to make the next 1v1 they encounter a 1v2. Sometimes they group up and erase the chance of a 1v1 because they'd lose anyway and having someone helping to make sure the 2v1 is way more fun, right?I stopped roaming when I saw two people fighting 1v1. Sat nearby watching and after the duel one of the duelist got his three guild mates to gank me before I even could /bow. The same guys that run from me 1v1 at least two times the same evening. This happened so often in the last years that I mainly stopped trying to be nice to "roamers" or "duelers"People aren't out there to fight. It's all about the ego and killing stuff.

If you can accept that, this game is great, but you have to be a major dick to enjoy it.

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some of us have all the classes and we can easily change professions to counter the opposition. it's like rock paper scissors. not many have this option unless they gear up properly and it takes time. that's why if possible there should be one toon that can be all professions and can have altered gear on the go. >3<

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@Sovereign.1093 said:some of us have all the classes and we can easily change professions to counter the opposition. it's like rock paper scissors. not many have this option unless they gear up properly and it takes time. that's why if possible there should be one toon that can be all professions and can have altered gear on the go. >3<

It should also be pointed out that a lot of us can't be arsed to change classes/builds just to win a fight when we could just as easily die and run back without consequence . . .

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@Gop.8713 said:

@Sovereign.1093 said:some of us have all the classes and we can easily change professions to counter the opposition. it's like rock paper scissors. not many have this option unless they gear up properly and it takes time. that's why if possible there should be one toon that can be all professions and can have altered gear on the go. >3<

It should also be pointed out that a lot of us can't be kitten to change classes/builds just to win a fight when we could just as easily die and run back without consequence . . .

that's the thing isn't it :) faced a lot of people with certain composition. the moment we did the rock to their scissors, it's their turn to get farmed again and again until they stop coming. it's a little effort but it works.

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@Sovereign.1093 said:

@Gop.8713 said:

@Sovereign.1093 said:some of us have all the classes and we can easily change professions to counter the opposition. it's like rock paper scissors. not many have this option unless they gear up properly and it takes time. that's why if possible there should be one toon that can be all professions and can have altered gear on the go. >3<

It should also be pointed out that a lot of us can't be kitten to change classes/builds just to win a fight when we could just as easily die and run back without consequence . . .

that's the thing isn't it :) faced a lot of people with certain composition. the moment we did the rock to their scissors, it's their turn to get farmed again and again until they stop coming. it's a little effort but it works.

1) I never stop coming. I love tying up 'better' builds/groups by dying over and over . . .

2) works for what? That's the problem. The game should be designed in such a way that the tactic described in 1) doesn't work, but it always does . . .

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@Gop.8713 said:

@Gop.8713 said:

@Sovereign.1093 said:some of us have all the classes and we can easily change professions to counter the opposition. it's like rock paper scissors. not many have this option unless they gear up properly and it takes time. that's why if possible there should be one toon that can be all professions and can have altered gear on the go. >3<

It should also be pointed out that a lot of us can't be kitten to change classes/builds just to win a fight when we could just as easily die and run back without consequence . . .

that's the thing isn't it :) faced a lot of people with certain composition. the moment we did the rock to their scissors, it's their turn to get farmed again and again until they stop coming. it's a little effort but it works.

1) I never stop coming. I love tying up 'better' builds/groups by dying over and over . . .

2) works for what? That's the problem. The game should be designed in such a way that the tactic described in 1) doesn't work, but it always does . . .

well if you like dying again and again, thats on you. =)

how does getting farmed work? if thats a win for you then dont change =)

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@Gop.8713 said:

@Gop.8713 said:

@Sovereign.1093 said:some of us have all the classes and we can easily change professions to counter the opposition. it's like rock paper scissors. not many have this option unless they gear up properly and it takes time. that's why if possible there should be one toon that can be all professions and can have altered gear on the go. >3<

It should also be pointed out that a lot of us can't be kitten to change classes/builds just to win a fight when we could just as easily die and run back without consequence . . .

that's the thing isn't it :) faced a lot of people with certain composition. the moment we did the rock to their scissors, it's their turn to get farmed again and again until they stop coming. it's a little effort but it works.

1) I never stop coming. I love tying up 'better' builds/groups by dying over and over . . .

2) works for what? That's the problem. The game should be designed in such a way that the tactic described in 1) doesn't work, but it always does . . .Yes, works for what?

The game is literally designed so you cant win by doing that. You need PPT and PPK to win. No matter what part of that you aim for... it doesnt work.

If you only want annoy people well the game is definetly designed for that. Its premise is to be an MMO after all.

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@DeadlySynz.3471 said:

@Shadowresli.3782 said:because there is no fighting in wvw, it died alongside GWEN.that spamfest of condis and boons, dancing around one another for minutes when two bigger groups meet, then a quick spike, death of one group and repeat.it's unsatisfying and boring, and can't be called fighting

It’s basically been like this since day 1. Only difference is you can replace condition with that awful meta of warriors and guardians leaping in and spamming #1. It was that meta when most people started leaving.

Most fights occur anyway in and around structures. Seldomly do we see open field fighting, even in year 1. There has never been much of a point to it

Why does open field fighting happen in other MMO's with it though?

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@"SoV.5139" said:WvW Forumites: We want more fights!!!

Also WvW Forumites: Plays burst + full escape kit, hit and run build which hits 20% of the time and runs 80%.

Everyone else: /shrugs, then run the opposite direction which results in no fight happening through to completion.

**this is a direct result of demanding "high risk high reward" builds, getting what you wished for, then min maxing to minimize the risk. No one wants to fight that, so they simply bounce the first time an entire escape kit is blown to reset after the first failed burst. No one wants to play against the "let me reset the fight as many times as I fail until I finally win" builds.

AKA - People didnt really want high risk high reward. They just couched their feedback into those terms to make it sound convincing, and are now running around on a low risk high reward build wondering why no one else other than the other 8 people per tier who are ALSO running around on low risk high reward builds, wants fights.

The bunker meta folks complained about supposedly not requiring any skill in the past, actually required multiplicitively more skill than the current meta does. Full escape kits can be hard countered simply by running in the other direction with swiftness on.

That is a great observation, I hope everybody takes time to read it.

@"DeceiverX.8361" said:Two words:Imbalanced combat.

Funny thing, now that lots of classes can more-or-less one shot most of the others, the game is arguably more balanced than ever. But was balance ever desirable to begin with? Or would some form of dynamic handicapping and "event" oriented PvE intervention (not necessarily a giant dragon summons or volcanic eruption) be desirable? I guess we'll never know.

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@Hannelore.8153 said:Its getting really bad, mmhm.

If you want a serious fight, destroy the gates to a tower and just leave it down, don't cap it. Keep the guards down and watch as enemies just flood in to become bags for you, thinking they are defending when really they are falling into a trap.

sounds like a real serious fight there -kappa-

seen many groups get wiped while doing this when an actual organized group shows up

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@Sovereign.1093 said:

@Gop.8713 said:

@Gop.8713 said:

@Sovereign.1093 said:some of us have all the classes and we can easily change professions to counter the opposition. it's like rock paper scissors. not many have this option unless they gear up properly and it takes time. that's why if possible there should be one toon that can be all professions and can have altered gear on the go. >3<

It should also be pointed out that a lot of us can't be kitten to change classes/builds just to win a fight when we could just as easily die and run back without consequence . . .

that's the thing isn't it :) faced a lot of people with certain composition. the moment we did the rock to their scissors, it's their turn to get farmed again and again until they stop coming. it's a little effort but it works.

1) I never stop coming. I love tying up 'better' builds/groups by dying over and over . . .

2) works for what? That's the problem. The game should be designed in such a way that the tactic described in 1) doesn't work, but it always does . . .

well if you like dying again and again, thats on you. =)

how does getting farmed work? if thats a win for you then dont change =)

As long as death is free of consequence, I don't plan to. So long as I get to fight, it's win-win :)

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@Gop.8713 said:

@Gop.8713 said:

@Sovereign.1093 said:some of us have all the classes and we can easily change professions to counter the opposition. it's like rock paper scissors. not many have this option unless they gear up properly and it takes time. that's why if possible there should be one toon that can be all professions and can have altered gear on the go. >3<

It should also be pointed out that a lot of us can't be kitten to change classes/builds just to win a fight when we could just as easily die and run back without consequence . . .

that's the thing isn't it :) faced a lot of people with certain composition. the moment we did the rock to their scissors, it's their turn to get farmed again and again until they stop coming. it's a little effort but it works.

1) I never stop coming. I love tying up 'better' builds/groups by dying over and over . . .

2) works for what? That's the problem. The game should be designed in such a way that the tactic described in 1) doesn't work, but it always does . . .Yes, works for what?

The game is literally designed so you cant win by doing that. You need PPT and PPK to win. No matter what part of that you aim for... it doesnt work.

If you only want annoy people well the game is
definetly
designed for that. Its premise is to be an MMO after all.

It works for holding them in place, prevents their moving around the map and capping things. Players will stay in one place if they think it means they'll get to kill someone over and over. It's weird, but I promise it works. If I as one player can control the behavior of a half dozen enemy players, I consider that successful play . . .

Though I shouldn't have said it 'always' works, as there are certainly players who will lose interest and move on. It works a lot though. More often than it should :)

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@Gop.8713 said:

@Gop.8713 said:

@Gop.8713 said:

@Sovereign.1093 said:some of us have all the classes and we can easily change professions to counter the opposition. it's like rock paper scissors. not many have this option unless they gear up properly and it takes time. that's why if possible there should be one toon that can be all professions and can have altered gear on the go. >3<

It should also be pointed out that a lot of us can't be kitten to change classes/builds just to win a fight when we could just as easily die and run back without consequence . . .

that's the thing isn't it :) faced a lot of people with certain composition. the moment we did the rock to their scissors, it's their turn to get farmed again and again until they stop coming. it's a little effort but it works.

1) I never stop coming. I love tying up 'better' builds/groups by dying over and over . . .

2) works for what? That's the problem. The game should be designed in such a way that the tactic described in 1) doesn't work, but it always does . . .

well if you like dying again and again, thats on you. =)

how does getting farmed work? if thats a win for you then dont change =)

As long as death is free of consequence, I don't plan to. So long as I get to fight, it's win-win :)

@Gop.8713 said:

@Gop.8713 said:

@Sovereign.1093 said:some of us have all the classes and we can easily change professions to counter the opposition. it's like rock paper scissors. not many have this option unless they gear up properly and it takes time. that's why if possible there should be one toon that can be all professions and can have altered gear on the go. >3<

It should also be pointed out that a lot of us can't be kitten to change classes/builds just to win a fight when we could just as easily die and run back without consequence . . .

that's the thing isn't it :) faced a lot of people with certain composition. the moment we did the rock to their scissors, it's their turn to get farmed again and again until they stop coming. it's a little effort but it works.

1) I never stop coming. I love tying up 'better' builds/groups by dying over and over . . .

2) works for what? That's the problem. The game should be designed in such a way that the tactic described in 1) doesn't work, but it always does . . .Yes, works for what?

The game is literally designed so you cant win by doing that. You need PPT and PPK to win. No matter what part of that you aim for... it doesnt work.

If you only want annoy people well the game is
definetly
designed for that. Its premise is to be an MMO after all.

It works for holding them in place, prevents their moving around the map and capping things. Players will stay in one place if they think it means they'll get to kill someone over and over. It's weird, but I promise it works. If I as one player can control the behavior of a half dozen enemy players, I consider that successful play . . .

Though I shouldn't have said it 'always' works, as there are certainly players who will lose interest and move on. It works a lot though. More often than it should :)

=) well as long as you are happy

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@Sovereign.1093 said:

@Gop.8713 said:

@Gop.8713 said:

@Gop.8713 said:

@Sovereign.1093 said:some of us have all the classes and we can easily change professions to counter the opposition. it's like rock paper scissors. not many have this option unless they gear up properly and it takes time. that's why if possible there should be one toon that can be all professions and can have altered gear on the go. >3<

It should also be pointed out that a lot of us can't be kitten to change classes/builds just to win a fight when we could just as easily die and run back without consequence . . .

that's the thing isn't it :) faced a lot of people with certain composition. the moment we did the rock to their scissors, it's their turn to get farmed again and again until they stop coming. it's a little effort but it works.

1) I never stop coming. I love tying up 'better' builds/groups by dying over and over . . .

2) works for what? That's the problem. The game should be designed in such a way that the tactic described in 1) doesn't work, but it always does . . .

well if you like dying again and again, thats on you. =)

how does getting farmed work? if thats a win for you then dont change =)

As long as death is free of consequence, I don't plan to. So long as I get to fight, it's win-win :)

@Gop.8713 said:

@Gop.8713 said:

@Sovereign.1093 said:some of us have all the classes and we can easily change professions to counter the opposition. it's like rock paper scissors. not many have this option unless they gear up properly and it takes time. that's why if possible there should be one toon that can be all professions and can have altered gear on the go. >3<

It should also be pointed out that a lot of us can't be kitten to change classes/builds just to win a fight when we could just as easily die and run back without consequence . . .

that's the thing isn't it :) faced a lot of people with certain composition. the moment we did the rock to their scissors, it's their turn to get farmed again and again until they stop coming. it's a little effort but it works.

1) I never stop coming. I love tying up 'better' builds/groups by dying over and over . . .

2) works for what? That's the problem. The game should be designed in such a way that the tactic described in 1) doesn't work, but it always does . . .Yes, works for what?

The game is literally designed so you cant win by doing that. You need PPT and PPK to win. No matter what part of that you aim for... it doesnt work.

If you only want annoy people well the game is
definetly
designed for that. Its premise is to be an MMO after all.

It works for holding them in place, prevents their moving around the map and capping things. Players will stay in one place if they think it means they'll get to kill someone over and over. It's weird, but I promise it works. If I as one player can control the behavior of a half dozen enemy players, I consider that successful play . . .

Though I shouldn't have said it 'always' works, as there are certainly players who will lose interest and move on. It works a lot though. More often than it should :)

=) well as long as you are happy

Thx :)

The only time I really get frustrated in wvw is when the ppl on my side won't fight. It's never made sense to me to get frustrated at the players on the other teams bc they're the enemy, they're supposed to be frustrating :p

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@Gop.8713 said:

@Gop.8713 said:

@Gop.8713 said:

@Gop.8713 said:

@Sovereign.1093 said:some of us have all the classes and we can easily change professions to counter the opposition. it's like rock paper scissors. not many have this option unless they gear up properly and it takes time. that's why if possible there should be one toon that can be all professions and can have altered gear on the go. >3<

It should also be pointed out that a lot of us can't be kitten to change classes/builds just to win a fight when we could just as easily die and run back without consequence . . .

that's the thing isn't it :) faced a lot of people with certain composition. the moment we did the rock to their scissors, it's their turn to get farmed again and again until they stop coming. it's a little effort but it works.

1) I never stop coming. I love tying up 'better' builds/groups by dying over and over . . .

2) works for what? That's the problem. The game should be designed in such a way that the tactic described in 1) doesn't work, but it always does . . .

well if you like dying again and again, thats on you. =)

how does getting farmed work? if thats a win for you then dont change =)

As long as death is free of consequence, I don't plan to. So long as I get to fight, it's win-win :)

@Gop.8713 said:

@Gop.8713 said:

@Sovereign.1093 said:some of us have all the classes and we can easily change professions to counter the opposition. it's like rock paper scissors. not many have this option unless they gear up properly and it takes time. that's why if possible there should be one toon that can be all professions and can have altered gear on the go. >3<

It should also be pointed out that a lot of us can't be kitten to change classes/builds just to win a fight when we could just as easily die and run back without consequence . . .

that's the thing isn't it :) faced a lot of people with certain composition. the moment we did the rock to their scissors, it's their turn to get farmed again and again until they stop coming. it's a little effort but it works.

1) I never stop coming. I love tying up 'better' builds/groups by dying over and over . . .

2) works for what? That's the problem. The game should be designed in such a way that the tactic described in 1) doesn't work, but it always does . . .Yes, works for what?

The game is literally designed so you cant win by doing that. You need PPT and PPK to win. No matter what part of that you aim for... it doesnt work.

If you only want annoy people well the game is
definetly
designed for that. Its premise is to be an MMO after all.

It works for holding them in place, prevents their moving around the map and capping things. Players will stay in one place if they think it means they'll get to kill someone over and over. It's weird, but I promise it works. If I as one player can control the behavior of a half dozen enemy players, I consider that successful play . . .

Though I shouldn't have said it 'always' works, as there are certainly players who will lose interest and move on. It works a lot though. More often than it should :)

=) well as long as you are happy

Thx :)

The only time I really get frustrated in wvw is when the ppl on my side won't fight. It's never made sense to me to get frustrated at the players on the other teams bc they're the enemy, they're supposed to be frustrating :p

as for frustration = i see multiple tags not handholding against blobs. or multiple open tags in one map.

there should only be one open tag, all other groups should be invis.

dont compete for members.

i.e. versus fa ane ar. when we united. they easy. then multiple spread. meh...

guild must learn 10 on squad only. let other members help open tag

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@Gop.8713 said:It works for holding them in place, prevents their moving around the map and capping things. Players will stay in one place if they think it means they'll get to kill someone over and over. It's weird, but I promise it works. If I as one player can control the behavior of a half dozen enemy players, I consider that successful play . . .

But you said that the game should be designed in such a way that this doesnt work.

It is designed in that way. In a micro WvW universe where only you and half a dozen enemies exist, you dont win by tying up any number of them. Hence the game is designed so that it doesnt work.

Whether you consider it successfull play or if you are riding the PPT success of your server by preventing random enemy caps is a whole other thing. That has nothing to do with design. That has everything to do with players being stubborn.

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@Dawdler.8521 said:

@Gop.8713 said:It works for holding them in place, prevents their moving around the map and capping things. Players will stay in one place if they think it means they'll get to kill someone over and over. It's weird, but I promise it works. If I as one player can control the behavior of a half dozen enemy players, I consider that successful play . . .

But you said that the game should be
designed in such a way that this doesnt work
.

It is designed in that way. In a micro WvW universe where only you and half a dozen enemies exist, you dont win by tying up any number of them. Hence the game
is
designed so that it doesnt work.

Whether you consider it successfull play or if you are riding the PPT success of your server by preventing random enemy caps is a whole other thing. That has nothing to do with
design
. That has everything to do with players being stubborn.

Yeah that's fair. It is more the fault of the players than the game I suppose. True of most wvw problems . . .

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