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Why do so few people care about figthing?


Sansar.1302

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@Gop.8713 said:

@Gop.8713 said:It works for holding them in place, prevents their moving around the map and capping things. Players will stay in one place if they think it means they'll get to kill someone over and over. It's weird, but I promise it works. If I as one player can control the behavior of a half dozen enemy players, I consider that successful play . . .

But you said that the game should be
designed in such a way that this doesnt work
.

It is designed in that way. In a micro WvW universe where only you and half a dozen enemies exist, you dont win by tying up any number of them. Hence the game
is
designed so that it doesnt work.

Whether you consider it successfull play or if you are riding the PPT success of your server by preventing random enemy caps is a whole other thing. That has nothing to do with
design
. That has everything to do with players being stubborn.

Yeah that's fair. It is more the fault of the players than the game I suppose. True of most wvw problems . . .

except for the tournaments. :3 make wvw great again. kwee

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WvW is meaningless & amounts to nothing without Tournaments.

I'd like to see Tournaments brought back, but it has to be done correctly, or it's going to be un-healthy for players & this game mode.

WvG TOURNAMENTS - Using New Match-Up Mechanics based on a Globe Raiding Modelhttps://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/1064956/#Comment_1064956

Yours truly,Diku

Credibility requires critical insight & time.

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@"Diku.2546" said:WvW is meaningless & amounts to nothing without Tournaments.

I'd like to see Tournaments brought back, but it has to be done correctly, or it's going to be un-healthy for players & this game mode.

WvG TOURNAMENTS - Using New Match-Up Mechanics based on a Globe Raiding Modelhttps://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/1064956/#Comment_1064956

Yours truly,Diku

Credibility requires critical insight & time.

indeed. it was the best time and why wvw was awesome.

@Dawdler.8521 said:Tournaments was unhealthy for the game. WvW is eternal war, not a contest where we are handed out medals. There is already tournaments in sPvP and look at what state that is in.

ppl should learn to stop playing when they tired. it's as simple as that.

pvp no esports so, not as important.

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@Gop.8713 said:The only time I really get frustrated in wvw is when the ppl on my side won't fight. It's never made sense to me to get frustrated at the players on the other teams bc they're the enemy, they're supposed to be frustrating :p

I stopped helping people out. Why? Because in the majority of cases the people you try to help don't even bother helping you. You see someone fighting 1v2 ends up almost always like this:1) He goes down and you have no chance to res him > you face the 1v2 and get flamed per /w by the dead guy2) You help him out and he starts running > you face the 1v2

Sorry for the 10% that really would pick up the fight and make it a 2v2, but in the end it's not worth it.

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@gebrechen.5643 said:

@"Gop.8713" said:The only time I really get frustrated in wvw is when the ppl on my side won't fight. It's never made sense to me to get frustrated at the players on the other teams bc they're the enemy, they're supposed to be frustrating :p

I stopped helping people out. Why? Because in the majority of cases the people you try to help don't even bother helping you. You see someone fighting 1v2 ends up almost always like this:1) He goes down and you have no chance to res him > you face the 1v2 and get flamed per /w by the dead guy2) You help him out and he starts running > you face the 1v2

Sorry for the 10% that really would pick up the fight and make it a 2v2, but in the end it's not worth it.

It is always unfortunate when the other guy costs you a chance at the win, but I realize that ofc sometimes I'm the other guy so it's nbd. Death is free anyway so who cares . . ?

What I was thinking of is more like . . :

Me: "Few bad guys setting up on outer keep . . "

Map: nothing

Me: "Outer down, on inner . . "

Map: crickets

Me: "On lord . . "

Map: Random camp flips to our color on opposite side of the map :p

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@Sansar.1302 said:What mindset do these players have ?

Go in get whatever annoying achievement i'm forced to get, then get out asap...

@XenesisII.1540 said:Because people are afraid to die, in a video game.

Its the fact new players have no mounts or gliders, the fact you got to run miles back every time you die, the fact you spend hours killing doors and walls, and npcs.. as a zerg.. Its just a hot mess so i avoid it.

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@Gop.8713 said:

@Gop.8713 said:The only time I really get frustrated in wvw is when the ppl on my side won't fight. It's never made sense to me to get frustrated at the players on the other teams bc they're the enemy, they're supposed to be frustrating :p

I stopped helping people out. Why? Because in the majority of cases the people you try to help don't even bother helping you. You see someone fighting 1v2 ends up almost always like this:1) He goes down and you have no chance to res him > you face the 1v2 and get flamed per /w by the dead guy2) You help him out and he starts running > you face the 1v2

Sorry for the 10% that really would pick up the fight and make it a 2v2, but in the end it's not worth it.

It is always unfortunate when the other guy costs you a chance at the win, but I realize that ofc sometimes I'm the other guy so it's nbd. Death is free anyway so who cares . . ?

What I was thinking of is more like . . :

Me: "Few bad guys setting up on outer keep . . "

Map:
nothing

Me: "Outer down, on inner . . "

Map:
crickets

Me: "On lord . . "

Map: Random camp flips to our color on opposite side of the map :p

Alot of time this happens because people get tired of throwing themselves at an overwhelming force and then switch to their alts to flip simple objectives, and typically this is classes like Rangers and Thieves that aren't as good in zerg fights.

Sure, sometimes its only 3-5 players on lord, but the fact that they made it to keep means its usually more.

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@Hannelore.8153 said:

@Gop.8713 said:

@Gop.8713 said:The only time I really get frustrated in wvw is when the ppl on my side won't fight. It's never made sense to me to get frustrated at the players on the other teams bc they're the enemy, they're supposed to be frustrating :p

I stopped helping people out. Why? Because in the majority of cases the people you try to help don't even bother helping you. You see someone fighting 1v2 ends up almost always like this:1) He goes down and you have no chance to res him > you face the 1v2 and get flamed per /w by the dead guy2) You help him out and he starts running > you face the 1v2

Sorry for the 10% that really would pick up the fight and make it a 2v2, but in the end it's not worth it.

It is always unfortunate when the other guy costs you a chance at the win, but I realize that ofc sometimes I'm the other guy so it's nbd. Death is free anyway so who cares . . ?

What I was thinking of is more like . . :

Me: "Few bad guys setting up on outer keep . . "

Map:
nothing

Me: "Outer down, on inner . . "

Map:
crickets

Me: "On lord . . "

Map: Random camp flips to our color on opposite side of the map :p

Alot of time this happens because people get tired of throwing themselves at an overwhelming force and then switch to their alts to flip simple objectives, and typically this is classes like Rangers and Thieves that aren't as good in zerg fights.

Sure, sometimes its only 3-5 players on lord, but the fact that they made it to keep means its usually more.

Sure, if the bad guy zerg shows up there's not much you're going to be able to do unless your zerg responds. But that's not the situation described in the post you quoted . . .

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@Hannelore.8153 said:

@Gop.8713 said:

@Gop.8713 said:The only time I really get frustrated in wvw is when the ppl on my side won't fight. It's never made sense to me to get frustrated at the players on the other teams bc they're the enemy, they're supposed to be frustrating :p

I stopped helping people out. Why? Because in the majority of cases the people you try to help don't even bother helping you. You see someone fighting 1v2 ends up almost always like this:1) He goes down and you have no chance to res him > you face the 1v2 and get flamed per /w by the dead guy2) You help him out and he starts running > you face the 1v2

Sorry for the 10% that really would pick up the fight and make it a 2v2, but in the end it's not worth it.

It is always unfortunate when the other guy costs you a chance at the win, but I realize that ofc sometimes I'm the other guy so it's nbd. Death is free anyway so who cares . . ?

What I was thinking of is more like . . :

Me: "Few bad guys setting up on outer keep . . "

Map:
nothing

Me: "Outer down, on inner . . "

Map:
crickets

Me: "On lord . . "

Map: Random camp flips to our color on opposite side of the map :p

Alot of time this happens because people get tired of throwing themselves at an overwhelming force and then switch to their alts to flip simple objectives, and typically this is classes like Rangers and Thieves that aren't as good in zerg fights.

Sure, sometimes its only 3-5 players on lord, but the fact that they made it to keep means its usually more.I've seen it when there are 3-5 on lord, you give up on the keep and move toward that enemy camp... only to see 15 people there standing and waiting on a 1m timer.
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Hello,

I think a good answer to that question lies in most of the above answers. Not in what is explicitely written, but in what they (mostly) show.

A lot of answers are ironic and sarcastic about the game mode in general, the fights in general, player's behaviour as a whole. Through that causticity, it just points that lots of players are so sick, so jaded, so upset about everything related to WvW that they talk about it like that. Like WvW is some kind of ugly clunky thing that's taking itself seriously, while it's nothing worthier than a shameless joke. It feels like there's nothing more to save in the game mode, so it's better just laugh about how awful it is. Eventhough good memories make that laugh a bit painful.

Now, most of players logging in WvW are just doing so because that's what they're used to doing to spend some time. Do some achievements, flip some worthless things, run among the zerg with as a way to empty their minds... And maybe also look for that flame that used to shine, while it's now cold ashes ?

Good luck ANet. You'll have to work really hard and set the bar really hard to save the day.

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@Dawdler.8521 said:

@Gop.8713 said:

@Gop.8713 said:The only time I really get frustrated in wvw is when the ppl on my side won't fight. It's never made sense to me to get frustrated at the players on the other teams bc they're the enemy, they're supposed to be frustrating :p

I stopped helping people out. Why? Because in the majority of cases the people you try to help don't even bother helping you. You see someone fighting 1v2 ends up almost always like this:1) He goes down and you have no chance to res him > you face the 1v2 and get flamed per /w by the dead guy2) You help him out and he starts running > you face the 1v2

Sorry for the 10% that really would pick up the fight and make it a 2v2, but in the end it's not worth it.

It is always unfortunate when the other guy costs you a chance at the win, but I realize that ofc sometimes I'm the other guy so it's nbd. Death is free anyway so who cares . . ?

What I was thinking of is more like . . :

Me: "Few bad guys setting up on outer keep . . "

Map:
nothing

Me: "Outer down, on inner . . "

Map:
crickets

Me: "On lord . . "

Map: Random camp flips to our color on opposite side of the map :p

Alot of time this happens because people get tired of throwing themselves at an overwhelming force and then switch to their alts to flip simple objectives, and typically this is classes like Rangers and Thieves that aren't as good in zerg fights.

Sure, sometimes its only 3-5 players on lord, but the fact that they made it to keep means its usually more.I've seen it when there are 3-5 on lord, you give up on the keep and move toward that enemy camp... only to see 15 people there standing and waiting on a 1m timer.

I've also seen just as many enemy players trying to farm allies at camp, in fact in last few months many of our battles are over camps.

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@Gop.8713 said:

@Gop.8713 said:

@Gop.8713 said:

@Sovereign.1093 said:some of us have all the classes and we can easily change professions to counter the opposition. it's like rock paper scissors. not many have this option unless they gear up properly and it takes time. that's why if possible there should be one toon that can be all professions and can have altered gear on the go. >3<

It should also be pointed out that a lot of us can't be kitten to change classes/builds just to win a fight when we could just as easily die and run back without consequence . . .

that's the thing isn't it :) faced a lot of people with certain composition. the moment we did the rock to their scissors, it's their turn to get farmed again and again until they stop coming. it's a little effort but it works.

1) I never stop coming. I love tying up 'better' builds/groups by dying over and over . . .

2) works for what? That's the problem. The game should be designed in such a way that the tactic described in 1) doesn't work, but it always does . . .

well if you like dying again and again, thats on you. =)

how does getting farmed work? if thats a win for you then dont change =)

As long as death is free of consequence, I don't plan to. So long as I get to fight, it's win-win :)

@Gop.8713 said:

@Gop.8713 said:

@Sovereign.1093 said:some of us have all the classes and we can easily change professions to counter the opposition. it's like rock paper scissors. not many have this option unless they gear up properly and it takes time. that's why if possible there should be one toon that can be all professions and can have altered gear on the go. >3<

It should also be pointed out that a lot of us can't be kitten to change classes/builds just to win a fight when we could just as easily die and run back without consequence . . .

that's the thing isn't it :) faced a lot of people with certain composition. the moment we did the rock to their scissors, it's their turn to get farmed again and again until they stop coming. it's a little effort but it works.

1) I never stop coming. I love tying up 'better' builds/groups by dying over and over . . .

2) works for what? That's the problem. The game should be designed in such a way that the tactic described in 1) doesn't work, but it always does . . .Yes, works for what?

The game is literally designed so you cant win by doing that. You need PPT and PPK to win. No matter what part of that you aim for... it doesnt work.

If you only want annoy people well the game is
definetly
designed for that. Its premise is to be an MMO after all.

It works for holding them in place, prevents their moving around the map and capping things. Players will stay in one place if they think it means they'll get to kill someone over and over. It's weird, but I promise it works. If I as one player can control the behavior of a half dozen enemy players, I consider that successful play . . .

Though I shouldn't have said it 'always' works, as there are certainly players who will lose interest and move on. It works a lot though. More often than it should :)

Its attitudes like that, that makes me enjoy camping at SC and fighting/beating people there. When they lose, they usually come back. :)

Makes it fun, guaranteed fights.

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I treat WvW in one way only. WvW is large scale teamplay. It's not pvp. It's not pve. It's scores of players working together to commit to a unified objective. Which is supposed to be winning. Over the course of the last 4 years, lot of players switched to the mind set of boxing and bags. Slugfests. And they no longer cared about capturing the flag. Even though that is part and parcel of WvW. Whatever you go to capture will always have players come into conflict at said location. Fights. So capturing or defending will lead to fights. Because sooner or later two opposing forces are going to meet up at that location. The name of the game is to win, and a lot of players say "nah, I just want to have fun..." But then they count their bags....so I know they're not there for "fun". They're there just for a fight and that's it. They give a damn about winning, just destroying. I don't see that as wholly fun.

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@Bigpapasmurf.5623 said:

@Gop.8713 said:

@Gop.8713 said:

@Gop.8713 said:

@Sovereign.1093 said:some of us have all the classes and we can easily change professions to counter the opposition. it's like rock paper scissors. not many have this option unless they gear up properly and it takes time. that's why if possible there should be one toon that can be all professions and can have altered gear on the go. >3<

It should also be pointed out that a lot of us can't be kitten to change classes/builds just to win a fight when we could just as easily die and run back without consequence . . .

that's the thing isn't it :) faced a lot of people with certain composition. the moment we did the rock to their scissors, it's their turn to get farmed again and again until they stop coming. it's a little effort but it works.

1) I never stop coming. I love tying up 'better' builds/groups by dying over and over . . .

2) works for what? That's the problem. The game should be designed in such a way that the tactic described in 1) doesn't work, but it always does . . .

well if you like dying again and again, thats on you. =)

how does getting farmed work? if thats a win for you then dont change =)

As long as death is free of consequence, I don't plan to. So long as I get to fight, it's win-win :)

@Gop.8713 said:

@Gop.8713 said:

@Sovereign.1093 said:some of us have all the classes and we can easily change professions to counter the opposition. it's like rock paper scissors. not many have this option unless they gear up properly and it takes time. that's why if possible there should be one toon that can be all professions and can have altered gear on the go. >3<

It should also be pointed out that a lot of us can't be kitten to change classes/builds just to win a fight when we could just as easily die and run back without consequence . . .

that's the thing isn't it :) faced a lot of people with certain composition. the moment we did the rock to their scissors, it's their turn to get farmed again and again until they stop coming. it's a little effort but it works.

1) I never stop coming. I love tying up 'better' builds/groups by dying over and over . . .

2) works for what? That's the problem. The game should be designed in such a way that the tactic described in 1) doesn't work, but it always does . . .Yes, works for what?

The game is literally designed so you cant win by doing that. You need PPT and PPK to win. No matter what part of that you aim for... it doesnt work.

If you only want annoy people well the game is
definetly
designed for that. Its premise is to be an MMO after all.

It works for holding them in place, prevents their moving around the map and capping things. Players will stay in one place if they think it means they'll get to kill someone over and over. It's weird, but I promise it works. If I as one player can control the behavior of a half dozen enemy players, I consider that successful play . . .

Though I shouldn't have said it 'always' works, as there are certainly players who will lose interest and move on. It works a lot though. More often than it should :)

Its attitudes like that, that makes me enjoy camping at SC and fighting/beating people there. When they lose, they usually come back. :)

Makes it fun, guaranteed fights.

Exactly. And if over time that player gets enough experience or gains enough confidence that they become willing to venture out away from the safety of their camp, and engage rather than run when they see even numbers in the open field, everyone is better for it :)

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Well the objectives, atleast for me, are reason to get fight (you attacking, enemy deffending and opposite), sadly its ending lot of time with enemy barricaded behind siege. Also ppl are leaving, EU dont have ppl and MOSTLY commanders for 15 links, so the ones playing are being often left to do ppt, or they meet some sort of enemy cloud. The situation is moving towards karma train mode also by new/casual/ignorant ppl not respecting the meta, they cant kill enemy zerg with 2 fb and 8 rangers, no one want to switch, so you are left to do ppt again. Which burning out the left coms and going towards karma train chatmanders again.

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What pisses me off is people from my own server who will not step outside when there is 5 enemy using a cata on a wall.Just yesterday before few hours from reset this happened, i know that the other 2 teams can't catch us in points, but just fight.Worse thing was i managed to get couple down and went down myself, all they could have down is just atleast mount stomp them.But no, they just stand and hug walls.

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@Sleepwalker.1398 said:What pisses me off is people from my own server who will not step outside when there is 5 enemy using a cata on a wall.Just yesterday before few hours from reset this happened, i know that the other 2 teams can't catch us in points, but just fight.Worse thing was i managed to get couple down and went down myself, all they could have down is just atleast mount stomp them.But no, they just stand and hug walls.

Please tell me you are not shocked? That describes close to 75% of the non reset population... across all servers...

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@Sleepwalker.1398 said:What pisses me off is people from my own server who will not step outside when there is 5 enemy using a cata on a wall.Just yesterday before few hours from reset this happened, i know that the other 2 teams can't catch us in points, but just fight.Worse thing was i managed to get couple down and went down myself, all they could have down is just atleast mount stomp them.But no, they just stand and hug walls.

It the pippers just want to repair for participation....... sad, but I’ve seen it as well.

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@Vasdamas Anklast.1607 said:They don't care about fighting but as soon as they see their friends comming they just turn back and fight likea a cocky team speak/discord camping blob cattle they usually are.If you want some fights you should just stick to spvp nowadays. It's kinda boring though but there is still more fight in there

Honestly, yeah....the fight culture in wvw has changed. You rarely get fights, you get trolls, skittish players, cowards and opportunists. This especially goes when roaming. An example, people will go and attack with 5v1 but as soon as 4 more show up they flee. Yeah, wvw gets lousy support, but the community shares some of the blame with shenanigans like this.

And spvp you say? Nope, not even that! The culture in spvp has changed as well. Except that in spvp, the trolling takes on a different form. Since people can't run away in a closed instance....just go AFK or throw the match! PUGs are notorious for this.

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You guys are seeing things from a fight oriented roamer perspective.You guys roam for challenging solo / small scale fights. That’s all good.

But we got to see things from the other side. Scouts especially roam not to engage in solo / small scale fights as his primary purpose. They defend camps, structures and call out enemy positions as their main goal.

Their goal is to survive and delay or kill the enemy with whatever means possible. And if it means running from you until he outnumbers you, then he would do it.

At least that’s what I do when I scout and defend places =D

I will run and shout for help in chat until my allies come then I turn and gank the enemy.

And sometimes our builds are not for solo fights so...This is my fight oriented roamer...if you meet him, he is looking for fights...but I have 20 other Necro toons and they're all fun theme builds so if you meet them, just know that I'll run until I outnumber you =D

qnJt8at.gif

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