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Fatal nerf pvp-condi


Zraurum.8493

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@Gryxis.6950 said:

and sometimes enemies are at close range and the steal doesnt need 1200 range.everything can be argued that way.rampage dealing 20 dmg wasnt 99% nerf, becouse sometimes oponents are at 20 hp so 10k dmg is not needed.

I'm saying condi duration isn't equal to damage and you're here saying that's like saying range isn't equal to range and damage isn't equal to damage ? That just doesn't make sense. Condi cleansing is stronger against long duration conditions than it is against low duration conditions, which means that a 50% condi duration nerf most of the time isn't a 50% damage nerf. If you make a condi from 1 stack for 4s to 2 stacks for 2s, it's a buff. I thought everyone knew that

Duration Condi allows you to throw another stack of Condi, thereby increasing the duration and damage from Condi. The more stacks, the more damage, the longer the stack hangs, the easier it is to increase their number. Last nerf catastrophic debuff .

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@Zraurum.8493 said:

and sometimes enemies are at close range and the steal doesnt need 1200 range.everything can be argued that way.rampage dealing 20 dmg wasnt 99% nerf, becouse sometimes oponents are at 20 hp so 10k dmg is not needed.

I'm saying condi duration isn't equal to damage and you're here saying that's like saying range isn't equal to range and damage isn't equal to damage ? That just doesn't make sense. Condi cleansing is stronger against long duration conditions than it is against low duration conditions, which means that a 50% condi duration nerf most of the time isn't a 50% damage nerf. If you make a condi from 1 stack for 4s to 2 stacks for 2s, it's a buff. I thought everyone knew that

Duration Condi allows you to throw another stack of Condi, thereby increasing the duration and damage from Condi. The more stacks, the more damage, the longer the stack hangs, the easier it is to increase their number. Last nerf catastrophic debuff .

Its not that bad, its just gonna make fights against thief even more miserable, becouse when he fucks up big time he cant even be punished anymore.Its still propably gonna be an alright sidenoder but im unsure, weaver is autolose, thief is autolose FB is autolose. time will tell.Fights against holo for example should be much more in cmirages favour.

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@Leonidrex.5649 said:

cleansing is as strong as your eyesight and reaction time, its not a rocketscience to quickly cleanse 10burn stacks.

Which is exactly why a 50% condi duration nerf isn't a 50% damage nerf. If you take 1 second to cleanse a burn stack, it doesn't matter if the stack originally lasted 1.5s or 3s it will have the same damage anyway.

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When a minor trait for the spec grants condi damage and the elite spec weapon is based on condi, its ridiculous to suggest "banning condi mirage".

Scepter clone generation was oppressive but staff really wasn't IMO (staff 2 / phase retreat is on 10 cooldown and puts you farther away), Phantasmal Warlock (staff 3) is on a far longer cooldown of 18s. You could argue the phantasms scale independently of your weapon stat and don't count for clones, but that's a separate matter altogether.I suspect the real reason that staff was hit is to make axe the strongest condi weapon available , to compensate for its lower range.

Do you really want the only viable mesmer to be one that shatters people with power builds?

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@"Infusion.7149" said:When a minor trait for the spec grants condi damage and the elite spec weapon is based on condi, its ridiculous to suggest "banning condi mirage".

Scepter clone generation was oppressive but staff really wasn't IMO (staff 2 / phase retreat is on 10 cooldown and puts you farther away), Phantasmal Warlock (staff 3) is on a far longer cooldown of 18s. You could argue the phantasms scale independently of your weapon stat and don't count for clones, but that's a separate matter altogether.I suspect the real reason that staff was hit is to make axe the strongest condi weapon available , to compensate for its lower range.

Do you really want the only viable mesmer to be one that shatters people with power builds?

Its typical to nerf whats strong leaving it weak, but they WILL NEVER address the bad.Why the fuck does scepter/axe auto deal only 600 dmg? Entire axe chain deals as much damage as 1 good crit on warrior.Mirage is bandaid to condi becouse it provides sustained damage throught ambushes, play condi core, you throw p4+scepter 3. it gets cleansed and now what.Utilities deal no damage, all elites are unusable, shatters hit for 200, autos deal 600-800 ... ?The least they could do is up warlocks power damage to match damage from the 2, its fucking 200 DAMAGE on condi build. big LoL.They also wont address the fact that phantasms die to random aoe and hits, Alot of mesmer stuff is very unreliable.gs 2 just bouncess off target.gs 4 sword misses then phantasm just derpsp4 channels at max range so you take 1 step and are out of ranget5 always misseswarden just hits random shit, instead of the target. but at the very least she blocks prj and deals ALOT of damage if someone runs into her. too bad she has only fucking 3,396 hp.sword 5 is on the same boat as t5, at least it does its lunge that deals some damage.staff 3 same boat as p4, exept it also deals no damage to begin with.Phantasms get CC to stop their attack by random attacksthey only have 3,396 so they can die to RANDOM SHIT, warrior can gs3 to not only evade, but also KILL phantasms and put pressure onto you.And this is the only " RELIABLE " damage core has.

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@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@"viquing.8254" said:I give back a try to axe, completly missed the ambush didn't work anymore from behind, it's just to clunky to use in melee...

from behind? my works fine

"Reduced the amount of torment stacks applied in PvP and WvW from 3 to 1. This skill can no longer be used on targets behind the mesmer."= versus anyclass that have swiftness or movement attack, it's really clunky to use.

Imagine warrior F1 hitting only if cast in face of target :D

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@viquing.8254 said:

@viquing.8254 said:I give back a try to axe, completly missed the ambush didn't work anymore from behind, it's just to clunky to use in melee...

from behind? my works fine

"Reduced the amount of torment stacks applied in PvP and WvW from 3 to 1. This skill can no longer be used on targets behind the mesmer."= versus anyclass that have swiftness or movement attack, it's really clunky to use.

Imagine warrior F1 hitting only if cast in face of target :D

then dont use them on targets behind mesmer? throw it in front of you and axes will snap to target.Axe is bad becouse of the bugs, cleanses, reflect, retaliation and the fact you cant focusfire target becouse axes keep hitting pets and clones and people you dont wanna hit.

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@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@viquing.8254 said:I give back a try to axe, completly missed the ambush didn't work anymore from behind, it's just to clunky to use in melee...

from behind? my works fine

"Reduced the amount of torment stacks applied in PvP and WvW from 3 to 1. This skill can no longer be used on targets behind the mesmer."= versus anyclass that have swiftness or movement attack, it's really clunky to use.

Imagine warrior F1 hitting only if cast in face of target :D

then dont use them on targets behind mesmer? throw it in front of you and axes will snap to target.Axe is bad becouse of the bugs, cleanses, reflect, retaliation and the fact you cant focusfire target becouse axes keep hitting pets and clones and people you dont wanna hit.

Yeah I dunno why I have to face people who can pop melee aoe from every direction while I have to have opponent in front of me at the risk of guttint my kite to use a kitten ambush who btw do half the damage they did in one clic.But it's probably proper balance.

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@viquing.8254 said:

@viquing.8254 said:I give back a try to axe, completly missed the ambush didn't work anymore from behind, it's just to clunky to use in melee...

from behind? my works fine

"Reduced the amount of torment stacks applied in PvP and WvW from 3 to 1. This skill can no longer be used on targets behind the mesmer."= versus anyclass that have swiftness or movement attack, it's really clunky to use.

Imagine warrior F1 hitting only if cast in face of target :D

then dont use them on targets behind mesmer? throw it in front of you and axes will snap to target.Axe is bad becouse of the bugs, cleanses, reflect, retaliation and the fact you cant focusfire target becouse axes keep hitting pets and clones and people you dont wanna hit.

Yeah I dunno why I have to face people who can pop melee aoe from every direction while I have to have opponent in front of me at the risk of guttint my kite to use a kitten ambush who btw do half the damage they did in one clic.But it's probably proper balance.

I mea... i know its shit, just look at how much axe autos deal, 600-700 damage, and thats if it doesnt get cleansesd.Entire auto chain deals same dmg as 1 click from other classes.

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@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@viquing.8254 said:I give back a try to axe, completly missed the ambush didn't work anymore from behind, it's just to clunky to use in melee...

from behind? my works fine

"Reduced the amount of torment stacks applied in PvP and WvW from 3 to 1. This skill can no longer be used on targets behind the mesmer."= versus anyclass that have swiftness or movement attack, it's really clunky to use.

Imagine warrior F1 hitting only if cast in face of target :D

then dont use them on targets behind mesmer? throw it in front of you and axes will snap to target.Axe is bad becouse of the bugs, cleanses, reflect, retaliation and the fact you cant focusfire target becouse axes keep hitting pets and clones and people you dont wanna hit.

That's why it's clunky? I mean look at axe 2. It leaves you very vulnerable. It's almost as if they intended you to cover it with mirage cloak and then follow it up with an ambush. It's a shame that it also locks you into an animation with forward motion, often leaving you facing the wrong direction. Impossible to use? Nope. Clunky? You betcha! The change to phantasmal axes came after and not much thought went into it. They should revert this stupidity, as minor as it is.

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@AliamRationem.5172 said:

@viquing.8254 said:I give back a try to axe, completly missed the ambush didn't work anymore from behind, it's just to clunky to use in melee...

from behind? my works fine

"Reduced the amount of torment stacks applied in PvP and WvW from 3 to 1. This skill can no longer be used on targets behind the mesmer."= versus anyclass that have swiftness or movement attack, it's really clunky to use.

Imagine warrior F1 hitting only if cast in face of target :D

then dont use them on targets behind mesmer? throw it in front of you and axes will snap to target.Axe is bad becouse of the bugs, cleanses, reflect, retaliation and the fact you cant focusfire target becouse axes keep hitting pets and clones and people you dont wanna hit.

That's why it's clunky? I mean look at axe 2. It leaves you very vulnerable. It's almost as if they intended you to cover it with mirage cloak and then follow it up with an ambush. It's a shame that it also locks you into an animation with forward motion, often leaving you facing the wrong direction. Impossible to use? Nope. Clunky? You betcha! The change to phantasmal axes came after and not much thought went into it. They should revert this stupidity, as minor as it is.

They should fix many things, axe 3 or that crystal evade utility comes to mind.They are too busy figuring out what to nerf by 50% next.

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@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@viquing.8254 said:I give back a try to axe, completly missed the ambush didn't work anymore from behind, it's just to clunky to use in melee...

from behind? my works fine

"Reduced the amount of torment stacks applied in PvP and WvW from 3 to 1. This skill can no longer be used on targets behind the mesmer."= versus anyclass that have swiftness or movement attack, it's really clunky to use.

Imagine warrior F1 hitting only if cast in face of target :D

then dont use them on targets behind mesmer? throw it in front of you and axes will snap to target.Axe is bad becouse of the bugs, cleanses, reflect, retaliation and the fact you cant focusfire target becouse axes keep hitting pets and clones and people you dont wanna hit.

That's why it's clunky? I mean look at axe 2. It leaves you very vulnerable. It's almost as if they intended you to cover it with mirage cloak and then follow it up with an ambush. It's a shame that it also locks you into an animation with forward motion, often leaving you facing the wrong direction. Impossible to use? Nope. Clunky? You betcha! The change to phantasmal axes came after and not much thought went into it. They should revert this stupidity, as minor as it is.

They should fix many things, axe 3 or that crystal evade utility comes to mind.They are too busy figuring out what to nerf by 50% next.

Pretty much. I anticipate months (hopefully not years!) of PvP irrelevance when they finally unveil their "fix" to mirage cloak as they realize you can't consistently nerf the wrong things for YEARS and still have a playable spec when you finally the nerf the only thing that was holding it together.

Apparently, as long as I can dodge while performing other actions it's perfectly acceptable for my spec to deal damage over time that totals significantly less than most other classes are capable of dealing up front. I wonder how such a spec would perform if it weren't able to do that?

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@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@viquing.8254 said:I give back a try to axe, completly missed the ambush didn't work anymore from behind, it's just to clunky to use in melee...

from behind? my works fine

"Reduced the amount of torment stacks applied in PvP and WvW from 3 to 1. This skill can no longer be used on targets behind the mesmer."= versus anyclass that have swiftness or movement attack, it's really clunky to use.

Imagine warrior F1 hitting only if cast in face of target :D

then dont use them on targets behind mesmer? throw it in front of you and axes will snap to target.Axe is bad becouse of the bugs, cleanses, reflect, retaliation and the fact you cant focusfire target becouse axes keep hitting pets and clones and people you dont wanna hit.

Yeah I dunno why I have to face people who can pop melee aoe from every direction while I have to have opponent in front of me at the risk of guttint my kite to use a kitten ambush who btw do half the damage they did in one clic.But it's probably proper balance.

I mea... i know its kitten, just look at how much axe autos deal, 600-700 damage, and thats if it doesnt get cleansesd.Entire auto chain deals same dmg as 1 click from other classes.

Imagine if the axe auto attack chain did like... 500 power damage+3500 condition damage the way other builds just crit for 4k on their melee auto attacks.

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@mortrialus.3062 said:

@viquing.8254 said:I give back a try to axe, completly missed the ambush didn't work anymore from behind, it's just to clunky to use in melee...

from behind? my works fine

"Reduced the amount of torment stacks applied in PvP and WvW from 3 to 1. This skill can no longer be used on targets behind the mesmer."= versus anyclass that have swiftness or movement attack, it's really clunky to use.

Imagine warrior F1 hitting only if cast in face of target :D

then dont use them on targets behind mesmer? throw it in front of you and axes will snap to target.Axe is bad becouse of the bugs, cleanses, reflect, retaliation and the fact you cant focusfire target becouse axes keep hitting pets and clones and people you dont wanna hit.

Yeah I dunno why I have to face people who can pop melee aoe from every direction while I have to have opponent in front of me at the risk of guttint my kite to use a kitten ambush who btw do half the damage they did in one clic.But it's probably proper balance.

I mea... i know its kitten, just look at how much axe autos deal, 600-700 damage, and thats if it doesnt get cleansesd.Entire auto chain deals same dmg as 1 click from other classes.

Imagine if the axe auto attack chain did like... 500 power damage+3500 condition damage the way other builds just crit for 4k on their melee auto attacks.

thats kinda the case RN, you do entire chain, 4 hits + seeking axe. Deal 1000 power damage, and 3k condi.condi gets cleansed, 5 hits into retal for 1300. and you end up dealing more dmg to yourself then to your oponent. kekW

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@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@viquing.8254 said:I give back a try to axe, completly missed the ambush didn't work anymore from behind, it's just to clunky to use in melee...

from behind? my works fine

"Reduced the amount of torment stacks applied in PvP and WvW from 3 to 1. This skill can no longer be used on targets behind the mesmer."= versus anyclass that have swiftness or movement attack, it's really clunky to use.

Imagine warrior F1 hitting only if cast in face of target :D

then dont use them on targets behind mesmer? throw it in front of you and axes will snap to target.Axe is bad becouse of the bugs, cleanses, reflect, retaliation and the fact you cant focusfire target becouse axes keep hitting pets and clones and people you dont wanna hit.

Yeah I dunno why I have to face people who can pop melee aoe from every direction while I have to have opponent in front of me at the risk of guttint my kite to use a kitten ambush who btw do half the damage they did in one clic.But it's probably proper balance.

I mea... i know its kitten, just look at how much axe autos deal, 600-700 damage, and thats if it doesnt get cleansesd.Entire auto chain deals same dmg as 1 click from other classes.

Imagine if the axe auto attack chain did like... 500 power damage+3500 condition damage the way other builds just crit for 4k on their melee auto attacks.

thats kinda the case RN, you do entire chain, 4 hits + seeking axe. Deal 1000 power damage, and 3k condi.condi gets cleansed, 5 hits into retal for 1300. and you end up dealing more dmg to yourself then to your oponent. kekW

No no. Imagine if each individual part of the auto attack chain hit for 3k and then 4k on the final. Like Warrior Greatsword.

Or even just 2.5k like most melee auto attacks.

I still remember Jawgeous

.
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@mortrialus.3062 said:

@viquing.8254 said:I give back a try to axe, completly missed the ambush didn't work anymore from behind, it's just to clunky to use in melee...

from behind? my works fine

"Reduced the amount of torment stacks applied in PvP and WvW from 3 to 1. This skill can no longer be used on targets behind the mesmer."= versus anyclass that have swiftness or movement attack, it's really clunky to use.

Imagine warrior F1 hitting only if cast in face of target :D

then dont use them on targets behind mesmer? throw it in front of you and axes will snap to target.Axe is bad becouse of the bugs, cleanses, reflect, retaliation and the fact you cant focusfire target becouse axes keep hitting pets and clones and people you dont wanna hit.

Yeah I dunno why I have to face people who can pop melee aoe from every direction while I have to have opponent in front of me at the risk of guttint my kite to use a kitten ambush who btw do half the damage they did in one clic.But it's probably proper balance.

I mea... i know its kitten, just look at how much axe autos deal, 600-700 damage, and thats if it doesnt get cleansesd.Entire auto chain deals same dmg as 1 click from other classes.

Imagine if the axe auto attack chain did like... 500 power damage+3500 condition damage the way other builds just crit for 4k on their melee auto attacks.

thats kinda the case RN, you do entire chain, 4 hits + seeking axe. Deal 1000 power damage, and 3k condi.condi gets cleansed, 5 hits into retal for 1300. and you end up dealing more dmg to yourself then to your oponent. kekW

No no. Imagine if each individual part of the auto attack chain hit for 3k and then 4k on the final. Like Warrior Greatsword.

Or even just 2.5k like most melee auto attacks.

I still remember Jawgeous
.

lol this is funny, after 15s i realized he is not sarcasting and I burst out laughting XD300 dmg and 200 bleed AND IT APPLIES TO 3 TARGETS Pog

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@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@viquing.8254 said:I give back a try to axe, completly missed the ambush didn't work anymore from behind, it's just to clunky to use in melee...

from behind? my works fine

"Reduced the amount of torment stacks applied in PvP and WvW from 3 to 1. This skill can no longer be used on targets behind the mesmer."= versus anyclass that have swiftness or movement attack, it's really clunky to use.

Imagine warrior F1 hitting only if cast in face of target :D

then dont use them on targets behind mesmer? throw it in front of you and axes will snap to target.Axe is bad becouse of the bugs, cleanses, reflect, retaliation and the fact you cant focusfire target becouse axes keep hitting pets and clones and people you dont wanna hit.

Yeah I dunno why I have to face people who can pop melee aoe from every direction while I have to have opponent in front of me at the risk of guttint my kite to use a kitten ambush who btw do half the damage they did in one clic.But it's probably proper balance.

I mea... i know its kitten, just look at how much axe autos deal, 600-700 damage, and thats if it doesnt get cleansesd.Entire auto chain deals same dmg as 1 click from other classes.

Imagine if the axe auto attack chain did like... 500 power damage+3500 condition damage the way other builds just crit for 4k on their melee auto attacks.

thats kinda the case RN, you do entire chain, 4 hits + seeking axe. Deal 1000 power damage, and 3k condi.condi gets cleansed, 5 hits into retal for 1300. and you end up dealing more dmg to yourself then to your oponent. kekW

No no. Imagine if each individual part of the auto attack chain hit for 3k and then 4k on the final. Like Warrior Greatsword.

Or even just 2.5k like most melee auto attacks.

I still remember Jawgeous
.

lol this is funny, after 15s i realized he is not sarcasting and I burst out laughting XD300 dmg and 200 bleed AND IT APPLIES TO 3 TARGETS Pog

THREE TARGETS LOOK AT THIIIIIIS

Meanwhile Engineer Rifle auto attack crit for 2k and pierces up to 5 targets and Photon Forge autos crit for 4k.

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@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@"mortrialus.3062" said:

No no. Imagine if each individual part of the auto attack chain hit for 3k and then 4k on the final. Like Warrior Greatsword.

Or even just 2.5k like most melee auto attacks.

I still remember Jawgeous
.

lol this is funny, after 15s i realized he is not sarcasting and I burst out laughting XD300 dmg and 200 bleed AND IT APPLIES TO 3 TARGETS Pog

Him saying sword 3 is really powerful is what truly got me

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@Gryxis.6950 said:

@"mortrialus.3062" said:

No no. Imagine if each individual part of the auto attack chain hit for 3k and then 4k on the final. Like Warrior Greatsword.

Or even just 2.5k like most melee auto attacks.

I still remember Jawgeous
.

lol this is funny, after 15s i realized he is not sarcasting and I burst out laughting XD300 dmg and 200 bleed AND IT APPLIES TO 3 TARGETS Pog

Him saying sword 3 is really powerful is what truly got me2k HP ON CLONES!111111111 RIDICULOUS!1111111 TOOOOOO TANKYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!11111111111111
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  • 1 month later...

@AliamRationem.5172 said:

@viquing.8254 said:I give back a try to axe, completly missed the ambush didn't work anymore from behind, it's just to clunky to use in melee...

from behind? my works fine

"Reduced the amount of torment stacks applied in PvP and WvW from 3 to 1. This skill can no longer be used on targets behind the mesmer."= versus anyclass that have swiftness or movement attack, it's really clunky to use.

Imagine warrior F1 hitting only if cast in face of target :D

then dont use them on targets behind mesmer? throw it in front of you and axes will snap to target.Axe is bad becouse of the bugs, cleanses, reflect, retaliation and the fact you cant focusfire target becouse axes keep hitting pets and clones and people you dont wanna hit.

That's why it's clunky? I mean look at axe 2. It leaves you very vulnerable. It's almost as if they intended you to cover it with mirage cloak and then follow it up with an ambush. It's a shame that it also locks you into an animation with forward motion, often leaving you facing the wrong direction. Impossible to use? Nope. Clunky? You betcha! The change to phantasmal axes came after and not much thought went into it. They should revert this stupidity, as minor as it is.

Great post.

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