[Suggestion] Stop making Story Bosses Hard (LS4 Spoilers)

[Carnius Magius.8091]

I may die a hundred times and have no armor left, but the boss eventually will die as long as I don't get disconnected.

[mortrialus.3062]

@"TheUndefined.1720" said:I made this suggestion back in my HoT review, and I'm going to make it here; Stop making PvE story bosses hard. I'm currently sitting in the active fight with Scruffy 2.0, dead, having died at least a dozens times, and I honestly just want to throw my hands up. The point where you frustrate your player to quitting is bad game design. I understand, as game developers, you want to make the fight epic - oh no! Taimi suffocating! I care and have to hurry, but I have massive amounts of projectiles, burning, aoe's, and a completely incompetent NPC that DOES NOT use his reflect as he should... that means I don't care about Taimi, I just want to get out of the fight.

So here are some suggestions:

• Lower the Bosses HP pool: The boss fight is taking way too long, and it is not enjoyable, take down the HP
• Stop with the rapid fire AoE's AND projectiles: Slow down on the boss's attack
• Relax on the complicated moves: This isn't a raid, it's a story boss, being solo'd, there's no need to make so difficult
• Program a better companion: In every fight I did during LS4 (Sunspears, Corsairs, the rag tag team, Braham) they stopped attacking and just stood there.. seriously during the inquest swarm they all just stood there

I know the automatic response from the forum goers will be "get better," sure, I'm willing to do that, I've tried doing that, but ANet keeps making their story bosses more and more difficult. This isn't fun anymore. Please chill out on the difficulty of the story bosses.

Looking back on this thread, seeing this person's comment and seeing the level of support for it back then is immensely depressing.

Looking back at some of the great mechanical story mission fights over the years, Shadow of the Dragon round 1&2, Faolain, Modremoth, Caudecus, Lazarus, The Warbeast, Balthazar, and frankly culminating with King Joko and Zaphira it's incredibly disappointing how far the actual gameplay of the living world has fallen.

There are great moments, like the finale to Season 4, and the current story missions are fun from purely a narrative and atmospheric standpoint. Bound by Blood is a great reimmersion into Charr culture, and Whisper in the Dark is genuinely creepy and unsettling in a dark and atmospheric way I've not seen an MMORPG pull off since The Secret World. But look at the "gameplay"

.

The first time he played this his response was "They were dead before I finished my Mantras."

I've noticed starting of All or Nothing while the story and scoping reminds great there's just no gameplay in the actual missions. The first fight against Kralkatorrik is visually stunning but you're just fighting a nonthreatening mobs, charging up pylons, and then hitting a beat stick that doesn't fight back. The fight against Kralkatorrik's Torment in War Eternal is just a joke. It's impossible to lose that fight. The final boss of LWS4 and he's not some tormented being in agony he's barely freaking awake. Flying Aurene is a visually stunning mission, but there's barely any actual gameplay.

Same thing with the fight against Braham's guildmates and the fight against the Icebrood Construct in Icebrood Saga.

This is "expansion level content?" The Living World story already struggled with being consistently too easy, but at least there were mechanics. At least there was fun getting through Joko's gauntlet, and fighting Joko himself. At least there was fun doing the stealth mission to set up a base in Korna. At least there were mechanics regarding fighting and getting to Zaphira the sniper.

? Breaking up the pace of the story with a potentially fun 2v2 with Rytlock against some bloodthirsty hardened charr soldiers could have been a fun little moment and it's embarrassing. Some people complained and so all the actual gameplay and mechanics needs to be thoroughly and completely drained from the game.

And what's doubly sad is that open world is already always really brain dead and it always will be where casuals thrived every since Arenanet completely abandoned the idea of challenging open world content after the backlash to Heart of Thorns. But the story is one of the few places in the game where you can make gameplay mechanically interesting, where you can make the game challenging, where you can put the ACTION and ROLEPLAYING back into this MMO-Action Roleplay game.

One of the number one things everyone walks away praising Guild Wars 2 is the speed, fluidity, and nuance of the combat system. It's dynamic and one of a kind. And the flagship content of the game that's supposed to draw in players is absolutely terrified of indulging in it.

But this guy, who hasn't posted on the forums in over a year, and probably doesn't play at all anymore. This guy got what he wanted. Everything interesting about the gameplay in the Living World has been completely drained. Fights are a complete joke. Over in a second and present absolutely no threat challenge or interesting mechanics just like he wanted. And he's gone. He didn't even stick around and doesn't appreciate it and doesn't care. But players like me who would love to see Living World also live up in terms of gameplay mechanics, quality, and difficulty that's worthy of single player roleplaying games, where a boss will kill me and leave me scratching my head and thinking about how I can approach the fight differently and gain victory. And then I can have fun doing just that and overcoming a challenge. The feeling of being satisfied completing challenging content. We lost everything.

[mindcircus.1506]

@"mortrialus.3062" said:A lot of great stuff.Hitting Thumbs Up on your post simply wasn't enough.This is not "expansion level content" to me.No.Thank you for aritculating what I have been looking for a way to say, so well.

I will say in the new episode's defense:The open world combat (forgettable meta event aside) is at times a little more challenging than a few other maps. They are trying some new things. Open world champs with some beefy retal, elites that actually put up a fight, some actual boon play that makes for a slightly more engaging combat cycle, the new "bitter cold" debuff. It's not HoT, but it sure beats berry farming in BFF.I get the map is small. Painfully small. And the meta is pretty much a snoozer. It's not a quarter the fun that Dragonfall was. But when I line it up with a few others, I'm enjoying it much more than I did Bitterfrost or Thunderhead.What's there is still more entertaining than Bloodstone Fen.If we could get the story instance back to the previous levels I would be much happier with the current product.

My only positive spin is this:This is their new "Starting over" point. It's not their first. They started over after Season 1 when their planned content delivery (which was meant to exclude expansions) turned out to be flawed in both execution and concept. At the same time as this, a bunch of really central talent left for Amazon. It happened again after Heart of Thorns, when a massive outcry against much of it's design forced all hands on deck to spend the next six months "finishing the expansion".Then we come the recent point where a bunch of people are let go.Go look at Matthew Medina's youtube and see just how much really good stuff that one single guy was responsible for. Then ask yourself how many people just like him were let go. And of those who remained, (those familiar with the tools enough to create the really great encounters we enjoyed) how many were then promoted into positions of oversight.I'm sure the department was absolutely gutted.I guess my point is that, as a starting over point, they've reduced everything back to a pretty low bar for entry. They are likely highly reshuffled teams with a lot of new people trying to reinvent the wheel... again.And for the first shot? it wasn't all doom and gloom for those of us who enjoy a challenge There was an increase in challenge from the Prologue's final story mission to Ep1's. Ep1's strike missions (while still hollow for many) were indeed harder than the first one was...and there were three. Grothmar was a shallow open world map but Bjora gave us more to fight than scorpions protecting chilis.If everything trends in the right direction we might just start enjoying the ride again after another issue or two.

[Dante.1508]

@maddoctor.2738 said:

@"Dante.1508" said:You try taking down Scruffy with only spamming 1 key... so tired of this hyperbole.

You can beat Scruffy by only spamming 1 key, if it's gonna be fun though is a different story. Arenanet made it so when you revive boss health doesn't reset so technically you can auto attack Scruffy to death without dodging, as long as you land a single hit before you die each time you will eventually (in a few hours maybe) beat him. Not to mention Braham will revive you rather quickly if you stay close to him, his shield skill will block Scruffy's projectiles too, so it's a good idea to hug the big brute.

Is it doable? Yes. But probably not anything someone might call "fun". The alternative is to use one of the faceroll builds that can kill the boss without struggling, but I guess "using a good build" is out of the question in "story is too hard" threads.

I hardly play now so it doesn't really matter, i login to use up my gems then i'll uninstall.. You guys can enjoy your hard Raid lite level content in stories..

[mortrialus.3062]

@Dante.1508 said:

@maddoctor.2738 said:

@Dante.1508 said:You try taking down Scruffy with only spamming 1 key... so tired of this hyperbole.

You can beat Scruffy by only spamming 1 key, if it's gonna be fun though is a different story. Arenanet made it so when you revive boss health doesn't reset so technically you can auto attack Scruffy to death without dodging, as long as you land a single hit before you die each time you will eventually (in a few hours maybe) beat him. Not to mention Braham will revive you rather quickly if you stay close to him, his shield skill will block Scruffy's projectiles too, so it's a good idea to hug the big brute.

Is it doable? Yes. But probably not anything someone might call "fun". The alternative is to use one of the faceroll builds that can kill the boss without struggling, but I guess "using a good build" is out of the question in "story is too hard" threads.

I hardly play now so it doesn't really matter, i login to use up my gems then i'll uninstall.. You guys can enjoy your hard Raid lite level content in stories..

If you played the last four story releases you'd realize that's been gone for about a year now. Story Missions already couldn't be failed, and now there is basically no game play and no mechanics. Your side won and you don't even appreciate it.

[maddoctor.2738]

@"Dante.1508" said:I hardly play now so it doesn't really matter, i login to use up my gems then i'll uninstall.. You guys can enjoy your hard Raid lite level content in stories..

By the way you should try the Icebrood Saga it's of a similar difficulty as the personal story (if not even less) the last fight of Whisper in the Dark has some annoying area of effect knockback spam, but it's just that, annoying, the rest of the Saga is really easy catering to players that found past content hard and complained about it.

That said, you keep proving my point regarding the overall reduction of difficulty in the Icebrood Saga. Players like you should've left ages ago, if hard story content is what makes you quit a game. But now that they made the story content specifically FOR YOU, without altering past content, it begs the question "why?", if players that couldn't handle the old content left/leave and refuse to play the easy mode Icebrood Saga before first playing the old content, all this recent change will do is alienate those still playing and enjoying the game.

[battledrone.8315]

@maddoctor.2738 said:

@"Dante.1508" said:I hardly play now so it doesn't really matter, i login to use up my gems then i'll uninstall.. You guys can enjoy your hard Raid lite level content in stories..

By the way you should try the Icebrood Saga it's of a similar difficulty as the personal story (if not even less) the last fight of Whisper in the Dark has some annoying area of effect knockback spam, but it's just that, annoying, the rest of the Saga is really easy catering to players that found past content hard and complained about it.

That said, you keep proving my point regarding the overall reduction of difficulty in the Icebrood Saga. Players like you should've left ages ago, if hard story content is what makes you quit a game. But now that they made the story content specifically FOR YOU, without altering past content, it begs the question "why?", if players that couldn't handle the old content left/leave and refuse to play the easy mode Icebrood Saga before first playing the old content, all this recent change will do is alienate those still playing and enjoying the game.

they would need a major rework of the game the game to get the casuals back, i dont see that happening this late.im guessing they are testing something, or they need to prop up numbers for a reporticebrood saga wont win many casuals, its way to gloomy and boringplayed about an hour, and uninstalled again

[maddoctor.2738]

@battledrone.8315 said:icebrood saga wont win many casuals, its way to gloomy and boringplayed about an hour, and uninstalled again

The way they are doing the game won't win many casuals, while at the same time alienates those looking for more challenge in the game. Another reason why this sudden change in policy regarding challenge doesn't make any sense and won't help the game.

[battledrone.8315]

not unless they do a major overhaul on the rest of the game. and i would be very surprised if they did that.it is very weird indeed

[Vinceman.4572]

I disagree a bit here. Sadly with this model they keep the casual crowd playing and interested in the game. This target group is the one that changes real money into gems (& gold) and doesn't grind their gold on certain maps, daily fractals or raids. A lot of them are not done with achievements and story bits after one week and if they are done with it they have lots of things to do which ambitious veterans have finished long time ago.In addition these easy story bits we've seen with the Episode 1 and to a smaller extent with Grothmar is appealing for the ones that got into the game recently with the new bundle structure (core + HoT + PoF for 30 €/$ which is a super sale of the century for beginners). These players are the potential ones to bring in fresh money because they don't have the stuff from the gem store veterans acquired over the years etc. pp. So, these players have a continuous flow of episode if they can maintain the 2 months cadence. It's very frustrating for me (and for you as well I guess) but I personally think that's their way to go now to stay financially healthy.Maybe that won't pay off - I really cannot imagine and I also don't want that this will work. My guilds and mates died a horrible death a.k.a. people have left in droves but I have no objective oversight and most likely sitting in my personal filter bubble. Again: Unlucky me but that's life I guess I know it is.

[Duglaive.5236]

I'm pretty new, having created an account this past April, followed by becoming very ill with an almost month long hospital stay. I wasn't able to really start playing until around mid July or so. So while I've had time to get used to GW2 and how it works, I'm a long way from being anywhere near an expert and experienced. Despite that, I haven't found the fights, boss or otherwise, to be too difficult; though at times really tedious with the amount of hitpoints and the repetition involved in beating certain bosses. The occasional puzzling mechanic, or "What the hell do I do now?" moment can also slow me down. But nothing, and I mean nothing, has been worse for me than story content I just don't enjoy in any way.

For me, that's been LS Season 3 in pretty much its entirety thus far. From the story, to the seemingly inane collecting one is asked to do has just shut me down from finishing the game's story in order. I went ahead and finished the PoF story simply because I wanted the mounts having come from games in the past that had them. And for the most part really enjoyed it (oddly enough, I think I overall found PoF's story a little more difficult than HoT's, but preferred the story of HoT more). And now I feel "stuck" again as I want to get back to Season 3, and just can't make myself start again. So Seasons 4 & 5 remain untouched while I try to avoid spoilers.

This is all my own opinion of course, but long story short, I guess I wouldn't care if it were more difficult. Just give us content worth the challenge. Make it compelling enough that I welcome the chance to play it

[Treacy.4067]

I'd rather they make them tougher, they're already easy as it is.

[Carcharoth Lucian.1378]

@Nephalem.8921 said:

@"Dante.1508" said:

https://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Soulbeast_-_Condi_Trapper

I use this build because i found it the most durable and high damage on many enemiesI would swap light on your feed for quickdraw and stance share doesnt do much solo. Build is ok so you have to play it wrong if you struggle with it like ranging a lot so your traps dont do much.

You can also use something like this (sb3 build) : http://gw2skills.net/editor/?POjAUVlZw+YTMJmJWaP7PvUYKWpeE-zRJYmRFfZEXGUZJ4zsAzZF-e .It's easier to play and the dps is really nice (you can even use it in raid content with stance share).

The "rotation" consists in using f2, f3, 2, 4, 7, 8, 9 and elite on cooldown and swap weapon when you can to proc the sigil (flanking mob bring even more dps).For the pets, use lynx for dps and warhog to bring a bit less dps but good cc. If you still struggle you can take the black bear pet to have 2 more invul (f2, f3).

[voltaicbore.8012]

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@"Dante.1508" said:

I hardly play now so it doesn't really matter, i login to use up my gems then i'll uninstall.. You guys can enjoy your hard Raid lite level content in stories..

If you played the last four story releases you'd realize that's been gone for about a year now. Story Missions already couldn't be failed, and now there is basically no game play and no mechanics. Your side won and you don't even appreciate it.

This... this is great truth. It pains me so deeply to see it written out, but it's so true. OP and their ilk complained, got their way (i.e. braindead "combat" content), and aren't even around to appreciate what they ruined for the rest of us.

[MaLong.2079]

@"Shiyo.3578" said:None of the story bosses are hard, please stop trying to make video games braindead easy. Thank you.

Smashing your face against the keyboard like a zombie... That is the definition of "braindead". Which also summarizes perfectly my experience with PoF maps. They are saturated with foes preventing me from doing anything interesting. Its all run or fight. That's the reason why now I spend my time at the forum instead of actually playing the game. The last fight of HoT was a pain. I think it took me over 20 minutes to solo it. And I had to do it twice because of a glitch.

[Dante.1508]

@"Duglaive.5236" said:I'm pretty new, having created an account this past April, followed by becoming very ill with an almost month long hospital stay. I wasn't able to really start playing until around mid July or so. So while I've had time to get used to GW2 and how it works, I'm a long way from being anywhere near an expert and experienced. Despite that, I haven't found the fights, boss or otherwise, to be too difficult; though at times really tedious with the amount of hitpoints and the repetition involved in beating certain bosses. The occasional puzzling mechanic, or "What the hell do I do now?" moment can also slow me down. But nothing, and I mean nothing, has been worse for me than story content I just don't enjoy in any way.

For me, that's been LS Season 3 in pretty much its entirety thus far. From the story, to the seemingly inane collecting one is asked to do has just shut me down from finishing the game's story in order. I went ahead and finished the PoF story simply because I wanted the mounts having come from games in the past that had them. And for the most part really enjoyed it (oddly enough, I think I overall found PoF's story a little more difficult than HoT's, but preferred the story of HoT more). And now I feel "stuck" again as I want to get back to Season 3, and just can't make myself start again. So Seasons 4 & 5 remain untouched while I try to avoid spoilers.

This is all my own opinion of course, but long story short, I guess I wouldn't care if it were more difficult. Just give us content worth the challenge. Make it compelling enough that I welcome the chance to play it

Exactly my experience as well.. Also if you thought Season 3 was tedious you should try season 4.. It blows 3 out of the water in annoying inane mechanics.. I was exactly at your point then decided to do 4... wow, just horrible gameplay.

I finished it on one character never again.. what amazing content when customers do it once then never want to go back.

[Linken.6345]

@Dante.1508 said:

@"Duglaive.5236" said:I'm pretty new, having created an account this past April, followed by becoming very ill with an almost month long hospital stay. I wasn't able to really start playing until around mid July or so. So while I've had time to get used to GW2 and how it works, I'm a long way from being anywhere near an expert and experienced. Despite that, I haven't found the fights, boss or otherwise, to be too difficult; though at times really tedious with the amount of hitpoints and the repetition involved in beating certain bosses. The occasional puzzling mechanic, or "What the hell do I do now?" moment can also slow me down. But nothing, and I mean nothing, has been worse for me than story content I just don't enjoy in any way.

For me, that's been LS Season 3 in pretty much its entirety thus far. From the story, to the seemingly inane collecting one is asked to do has just shut me down from finishing the game's story in order. I went ahead and finished the PoF story simply because I wanted the mounts having come from games in the past that had them. And for the most part really enjoyed it (oddly enough, I think I overall found PoF's story a little more difficult than HoT's, but preferred the story of HoT more). And now I feel "stuck" again as I want to get back to Season 3, and just can't make myself start again. So Seasons 4 & 5 remain untouched while I try to avoid spoilers.

This is all my own opinion of course, but long story short, I guess I wouldn't care if it were more difficult. Just give us content worth the challenge. Make it compelling enough that I welcome the chance to play it

Exactly my experience as well.. Also if you thought Season 3 was tedious you should try season 4.. It blows 3 out of the water in annoying inane mechanics.. I was exactly at your point then decided to do 4... wow, just horrible gameplay.

I finished it on one character never again.. what amazing content when customers do it once then never want to go back.

I thought story was 1 and done for most people.Only if you want ap and the reward that bring you go in more times.We altoholics are a minority.

[Dante.1508]

@Linken.6345 said:

@Dante.1508 said:

@"Duglaive.5236" said:I'm pretty new, having created an account this past April, followed by becoming very ill with an almost month long hospital stay. I wasn't able to really start playing until around mid July or so. So while I've had time to get used to GW2 and how it works, I'm a long way from being anywhere near an expert and experienced. Despite that, I haven't found the fights, boss or otherwise, to be too difficult; though at times really tedious with the amount of hitpoints and the repetition involved in beating certain bosses. The occasional puzzling mechanic, or "What the hell do I do now?" moment can also slow me down. But nothing, and I mean nothing, has been worse for me than story content I just don't enjoy in any way.

For me, that's been LS Season 3 in pretty much its entirety thus far. From the story, to the seemingly inane collecting one is asked to do has just shut me down from finishing the game's story in order. I went ahead and finished the PoF story simply because I wanted the mounts having come from games in the past that had them. And for the most part really enjoyed it (oddly enough, I think I overall found PoF's story a little more difficult than HoT's, but preferred the story of HoT more). And now I feel "stuck" again as I want to get back to Season 3, and just can't make myself start again. So Seasons 4 & 5 remain untouched while I try to avoid spoilers.

This is all my own opinion of course, but long story short, I guess I wouldn't care if it were more difficult. Just give us content worth the challenge. Make it compelling enough that I welcome the chance to play it

Exactly my experience as well.. Also if you thought Season 3 was tedious you should try season 4.. It blows 3 out of the water in annoying inane mechanics.. I was exactly at your point then decided to do 4... wow, just horrible gameplay.

I finished it on one character never again.. what amazing content when customers do it once then never want to go back.

I thought story was 1 and done for most people.Only if you want ap and the reward that bring you go in more times.We altoholics are a minority.

I've done the core tyria story about 30 times now.. Hot about 5, Pof once and the living stories 2 or 3 times uncompleted, living story 3 and 4 i've finished once completely.

Honestly this modern stuff just isn't fun to be redone.

[Ashantara.8731]

@"kharmin.7683" said:I have enough stress with real life work and enough calls on my time with family, kids and other obligations that I enjoy the few hours each week that I am able to get online with the game and decompress.

I totally get that, but then Strike Missions, Raids and other such content might not be for you, and that's 100% okay. Just don't ask to have the challenge taken away from others, that's all. :)

By the way, it just took me less than 10 minutes to gather a good team and a couple more to finish the Boneskinner strike mission, so it's not all about "having tons of time". It's mostly about skill and the willingness to play properly. If someone, for whatever reason, can't learn the mechanics of a specific content, they are not forced to play it and it's obviously not made for them. For instance, I don't do raids for that very reason, because most raid players are elitist in regards of wanting proof of your skill by posting the raid drops that show how many bosses you've already killed (and since I rarely do raids, I don't have that many trophies to show off). So, no one is forcing me to play raids, it's my decision to not do so because of the circumstances. Doesn't mean I come to the forum and ask to have said "proof" items removed from the game because of my personal situation...

[Svarty.8019]

I mod Dragon Age Inquisition, and I'm surprised how popular the "Skip Fights" mod has been. Even story mode in that game is easy. A lot of people just want to experience the story, not be forced into some silly dance in World of Circlecraft (AGAIN!).

[Ashantara.8731]

@"Svarty.8019" said:I mod Dragon Age Inquisition, and I'm surprised how popular the "Skip Fights" mod has been. Even story mode in that game is easy. A lot of people just want to experience the story, not be forced into some silly dance in World of Circlecraft (AGAIN!).

There are plenty of walking simulators with a story out there...

Edit: I am an old school pen & paper role-player, and there is no real adventure without epic fights. If you don't want challenging fights, don't play RPGs, MMO or otherwise.

[dodgerrule.8739]

It’ll only get harder. These aren’t anywhere as difficult as hot bosses were in instances or living world season 2.

[Ayrilana.1396]

@dodgerrule.8739 said:It’ll only get harder. These aren’t anywhere as difficult as hot bosses were in instances or living world season 2.

I’m not sure that it will since Anet seems to have dialed back the difficulty to appease a certain group of players.

[kharmin.7683]

@Ashantara.8731 said:

@kharmin.7683 said:I have enough stress with real life work and enough calls on my time with family, kids and other obligations that I enjoy the few hours each week that I am able to get online with the game and decompress.

I totally get that, but then Strike Missions, Raids and other such content might not be for you, and that's 100% okay. Just don't ask to have the challenge taken away from others, that's all. :)I completely agree here. And you're right: SM, Raids and Fractals are definitely content that I don't enter. Where I have an issue is with the calls to change the difficulty for other content in the game.

[kharmin.7683]

@"Ashantara.8731" said:Edit: I am an old school pen & paper role-player, and there is no real adventure without epic fights. If you don't want challenging fights, don't play RPGs, MMO or otherwise."challenging fights" is arbitrary, and that I believe is the crux of this argument. What some find challenging, others may not.