Which class dies the most in world vs world?

[DeadlySynz.3471]

@Mokk.2397 said:

@"lodjur.1284" said:43% of all users need to lose forum privileges. This isn't a question of opinion.

There's a reason necro is 90% of the time the first target in fights, they have little to no mobility, few stunbreaks, close to 0 stab. Even if you build tanky it isn't gonna help you survive if you're being focused by a few good players, or a lot of bad players. Necro is like a show hp sponge, sure it takes like 50k dmg to kill one but they will rarely actually get away.

Some patches the class makes up for it by being an offensive powerhouse other patches it doesn't.

BS!!!!!Necro has plenty stun breaks like any class . Necrotic Traversal ,Plague Signe, Spectral Armor ,Spectral Walk ,Well of Power , "You Are All Weaklings!" ,Trail of AnguishNecro has as many speed traits and speed skills as any class . Signet of the Locust and Quickening ThirstNecro has plenty healing in the form of Life LeechAlso necros have more condi removal than any class .Stop playing the Meta necro and trait properly then you will survive better.

All beyond useless in WvW. What's any or all of that going to do in the following scenarios:

• Mesmer macro shatter combo (as someone mentioned)
• 1, 2, or 3 CoR's (even though the 1st one will hit you for 15k alone)
• A phase smash or drop the hammer (the phase smash alone may drop you in a single hit regardless of any of the "stunbreaks", life leech, healing, or condition removal
• Simple hitting any of your buttons and dying to retaliation (thanks to our friend the guardian)
• Rapid fire? Long range shot? And long range for that matter from any class. Hammer bolt? Takes only 2-5 to drop a necro before they even know what's going on
• How about standing in melee range and being hit by 17 people at once? How's that life steal working out....;
• indiscriminately running after a dragon hunter then being insta-downed by their traps? That stunbreak worked great.. Conversely, if it was a guardian chasing me with retaliation, the dragon hunter probably would have died the second the guardian hit their traps (go figure)
• What about being lamblasted by a banner? How is any necro going to heal/life leech through 8-12K ticks + burning
• Centaur banner stampede of arrows.. 27K, signet of the locust going to outrun it? Fine, charge in, hit for 30K instead, now what?

If they had actual blocks, they'd probably be ok. If they had an actual reliable teleport, leap, or any type of quick escape, they might actually be ok. Invulnerables, probably ok. But because they don't have any of it, AND, their damage, utility, and boon corrupts continually are getting gutted, they aren't exactly ok.

Even if we rolled the necro back to PoF's launch, they still are heavily vulnerable to all of the above. It was justified though because of their devastation in close; which no longer exists.

[Master Ketsu.4569]

Necro. But not because the class is bad. Because it has a very defined role of being extremely strong in group fights but extremely vulnerable when being caught alone offguard, and a lot of Necro players just don't seem to understand this. They pick the class because it's the cool edgy death magic caster and don't bother to learn its actual role in PvP, then end up getting farmed as a result.

[Junkpile.7439]

@Master Ketsu.4569 said:Necro. But not because the class is bad. Because it has a very defined role of being extremely strong in group fights but extremely vulnerable when being caught alone offguard, and a lot of Necro players just don't seem to understand this. They pick the class because it's the cool edgy death magic caster and don't bother to learn its actual role in PvP, then end up getting farmed as a result.I don't see how necro would be strong in group fight. Well maybe if he hide close to portal and spam life blast.

[Mokk.2397]

@gebrechen.5643 said:

@"Mokk.2397" said:Necro/ Scourge DO have defences but they are Not Applied to the build in this current meta. The current meta dictates that they run Power Curses . A pure damage build running FULL Berzerker armour ,weapons and Scholar runes . Also in a zerg with the current meta they OUT NUMBER all other classes. A typical Meta zerg can consist of as many as 50% necro/scourge. Do the math. Of course they are going to die the most. Once they are separated from the main group that is CARRYING them they get picked off . So don't make this out that the Necro is a victim off balance changes . PUT SOME FREAKING ARMOUR ON IF YOU DON"T WANT TO DIE!!!!!!!

That's a pretty stupid argument. The scourges are there "only" for the boon strip, not for the damage. They don't choose to run berserker, the meta demands it, as Firebrands run minstrel. You have to bring a high number of scourges because they are the

only counter

to the boon spreading meta. More scourges means "less damage" because you can't stack more Revs or Eles - which always should be way higher in damage than scourges. To avoid carrying a class around that makes a high percentage of your zerg and deals low damage (you already do this with FB) you need to make them deal damage and you do this by making scourges super squishy.

You can cry all that you want about scourges. They aren't the reason for this kitten meta - they are a band-aid against it. But hey, it's what all the clueless people wanted. A high burst power and boon spam meta. Now you gotta deal with it.

The logical decision by Anet has to be to tone all power classes down massively and fix the boon problem.

That's the point I'm trying to make . People on necro running the meta builds are ones complaining that they are dying the most .It stands to reason because of the numbers of necros that compile the group. This can be as high as 50% of the group . Look at any zerg running meta and you can see this . Most are running scourge power curses which has Zero healing that leaves the necro player with out any self heal other than a single utility .That leaves them vulnerable outside the main group. Only a small portion of the necros in a group run anything else like celestrial or support apothecary which would at least offer a minimum of 600 healing for celestrial and at least 1500 healing for support apothecary. Sure it seems the coefficients seem low .Thats because life siphoning works on hits and pulses .It doesn't have the same mechanics as hard heals or rejuvenation .So put the build together on your character accordingly . I don't run meta EVER and my scourge survives very well and does reasonable damage .Dump the Meta builds and set up your necros to survive better using appropriate traits ,armour and skills .Or run something else .People insist on defending this current meta because it gives easy bags . But the meta only as good as the people than are running in the group. If your going to stray or get separated from that group you will die . The Power Scourge is the weakest link in the group because of it's lack Survivability and have the highest percentage of presence in the meta group so of course they will be targeted and die most often.Don't feign victimization just because you don't want to change. Tell your commanders to shove the meta up their back sides if you want to survive or play something else or don't run with that commander.

If you insist on running the Meta Power Scourge then that' s just another bag for me and I have absolutely NO sympathy for you .

[VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.]

@DeadlySynz.3471 said:

@Mokk.2397 said:

@"lodjur.1284" said:43% of all users need to lose forum privileges. This isn't a question of opinion.

There's a reason necro is 90% of the time the first target in fights, they have little to no mobility, few stunbreaks, close to 0 stab. Even if you build tanky it isn't gonna help you survive if you're being focused by a few good players, or a lot of bad players. Necro is like a show hp sponge, sure it takes like 50k dmg to kill one but they will rarely actually get away.

Some patches the class makes up for it by being an offensive powerhouse other patches it doesn't.

BS!!!!!Necro has plenty stun breaks like any class . Necrotic Traversal ,Plague Signe, Spectral Armor ,Spectral Walk ,Well of Power , "You Are All Weaklings!" ,Trail of AnguishNecro has as many speed traits and speed skills as any class . Signet of the Locust and Quickening ThirstNecro has plenty healing in the form of Life LeechAlso necros have more condi removal than any class .Stop playing the Meta necro and trait properly then you will survive better.

All beyond useless in WvW. What's any or all of that going to do in the following scenarios:

• Mesmer macro shatter combo (as someone mentioned)
• 1, 2, or 3 CoR's (even though the 1st one will hit you for 15k alone)
• A phase smash or drop the hammer (the phase smash alone may drop you in a single hit regardless of any of the "stunbreaks", life leech, healing, or condition removal
• Simple hitting any of your buttons and dying to retaliation (thanks to our friend the guardian)
• Rapid fire? Long range shot? And long range for that matter from any class. Hammer bolt? Takes only 2-5 to drop a necro before they even know what's going on
• How about standing in melee range and being hit by 17 people at once? How's that life steal working out....;
• indiscriminately running after a dragon hunter then being insta-downed by their traps? That stunbreak worked great.. Conversely, if it was a guardian chasing me with retaliation, the dragon hunter probably would have died the second the guardian hit their traps (go figure)
• What about being lamblasted by a banner? How is any necro going to heal/life leech through 8-12K ticks + burning
• Centaur banner stampede of arrows.. 27K, signet of the locust going to outrun it? Fine, charge in, hit for 30K instead, now what?

If they had actual blocks, they'd probably be ok. If they had an actual reliable teleport, leap, or any type of quick escape, they might actually be ok. Invulnerables, probably ok. But because they don't have any of it, AND, their damage, utility, and boon corrupts continually are getting gutted, they aren't exactly ok.

Even if we rolled the necro back to PoF's launch, they still are heavily vulnerable to all of the above. It was justified though because of their devastation in close; which no longer exists.

and at the same time, you necros get your personal cloud of firebrands to babysit you, the eles are fighing on their own. With even less hp. So you dont really have any reason to complain.

[schokelmei.8271]

@Mokk.2397 said:That's the point I'm trying to make . People on necro running the meta builds are ones complaining that they are dying the most .It stands to reason because of the numbers of necros that compile the group. This can be as high as 50% of the group . Look at any zerg running meta and you can see this . Most are running scourge power curses which has Zero healing that leaves the necro player with out any self heal other than a single utility .That leaves them vulnerable outside the main group. Only a small portion of the necros in a group run anything else like celestrial or support apothecary which would at least offer a minimum of 600 healing for celestrial and at least 1500 healing for support apothecary. Sure it seems the coefficients seem low .Thats because life siphoning works on hits and pulses .It doesn't have the same mechanics as hard heals or rejuvenation .So put the build together on your character accordingly . I don't run meta EVER and my scourge survives very well and does reasonable damage .Dump the Meta builds and set up your necros to survive better using appropriate traits ,armour and skills .Or run something else .People insist on defending this current meta because it gives easy bags . But the meta only as good as the people than are running in the group. If your going to stray or get separated from that group you will die . The Power Scourge is the weakest link in the group because of it's lack Survivability and have the highest percentage of presence in the meta group so of course they will be targeted and die most often.Don't feign victimization just because you don't want to change. Tell your commanders to shove the meta up their back sides if you want to survive or play something else or don't run with that commander.

If you insist on running the Meta Power Scourge then that' s just another bag for me and I have absolutely NO sympathy for you .

No, your statement is still stupid. If your class is designed to be supported by someone than the design is bad. You don't blame your firebrand because he can't support you 100% of the time - but you really should on a necro.And if you had cared to read what I wrote earlier. An apothecary or celestial necro/scourge is completely useless in a zerg. The healing is terrible compared to FB, Scrapper, Tempest, etc. You don't want those around. That's why you bring Berserker.Bring your apothecary to a fight and I kill you in 99% fights while all you did was running around me and not even making me heal once.

Try to tell your commander and change your meta. I'll bet you lose every encounter even vs. cloud groups. It just makes no sense.

And it's completely different for Ele or Rev because both of the classes have way better defensive options and mobility.And we don't talk about zerg only here. It's the same for roaming. You are always on a disadvantage on any Necro build out there, because every class has more mobility, survivability, stealth, etc. That's why you die way more often on a necro.

[lodjur.1284]

@Mokk.2397 said:

@gebrechen.5643 said:

@Mokk.2397 said:Necro/ Scourge DO have defences but they are Not Applied to the build in this current meta. The current meta dictates that they run Power Curses . A pure damage build running FULL Berzerker armour ,weapons and Scholar runes . Also in a zerg with the current meta they OUT NUMBER all other classes. A typical Meta zerg can consist of as many as 50% necro/scourge. Do the math. Of course they are going to die the most. Once they are separated from the main group that is CARRYING them they get picked off . So don't make this out that the Necro is a victim off balance changes . PUT SOME FREAKING ARMOUR ON IF YOU DON"T WANT TO DIE!!!!!!!

That's a pretty stupid argument. The scourges are there "only" for the boon strip, not for the damage. They don't choose to run berserker, the meta demands it, as Firebrands run minstrel. You have to bring a high number of scourges because they are the

only counter

to the boon spreading meta. More scourges means "less damage" because you can't stack more Revs or Eles - which always should be way higher in damage than scourges. To avoid carrying a class around that makes a high percentage of your zerg and deals low damage (you already do this with FB) you need to make them deal damage and you do this by making scourges super squishy.

You can cry all that you want about scourges. They aren't the reason for this kitten meta - they are a band-aid against it. But hey, it's what all the clueless people wanted. A high burst power and boon spam meta. Now you gotta deal with it.

The logical decision by Anet has to be to tone all power classes down massively and fix the boon problem.

That's the point I'm trying to make . People on necro running the meta builds are ones complaining that they are dying the most .It stands to reason because of the numbers of necros that compile the group. This can be as high as 50% of the group . Look at any zerg running meta and you can see this . Most are running scourge power curses which has Zero healing that leaves the necro player with out any self heal other than a single utility .That leaves them vulnerable outside the main group. Only a small portion of the necros in a group run anything else like celestrial or support apothecary which would at least offer a minimum of 600 healing for celestrial and at least 1500 healing for support apothecary. Sure it seems the coefficients seem low .Thats because life siphoning works on hits and pulses .It doesn't have the same mechanics as hard heals or rejuvenation .So put the build together on your character accordingly . I don't run meta EVER and my scourge survives very well and does reasonable damage .Dump the Meta builds and set up your necros to survive better using appropriate traits ,armour and skills .Or run something else .People insist on defending this current meta because it gives easy bags . But the meta only as good as the people than are running in the group. If your going to stray or get separated from that group you will die . The Power Scourge is the weakest link in the group because of it's lack Survivability and have the highest percentage of presence in the meta group so of course they will be targeted and die most often.Don't feign victimization just because you don't want to change. Tell your commanders to shove the meta up their back sides if you want to survive or play something else or don't run with that commander.If you insist on running the Meta Power Scourge then that' s just another bag for me and I have absolutely NO sympathy for you .

Let's disregard the zerg situation here (which I've done from the start) because the only reason you did in a set is cause you can't follow, your commander sucks or you can't adapt to the glory of 3 fps, 3000ms fighting. You could play naked in a zerg and the difference would be marginal at most.

Outside of zergs necro (particularly scourge) is best suited to run trail/dire (except reaper which is usually marauder or similar, but that's a different beast to talk about entirely) so you already run very defensive stats, yet even when you encounter those they are an easy focus targets because they had free nothing to prevent me from hitting them, at best they can slightly lower the dmg I do, but they can't get away meaning they'll die sooner rather than later.

Compare this to say warrior, is you actually get them low and they run out of their many active defenses they'll just fuck off with gs3+5+bull rush or something similar, then come back 15 seconds later with full hp and their defensives ready again. Same with most other classes, necro doesn't have that option, they'll never get away if someone is chasing them.

Having lots of hp, high toughness, sometimes even a few decent dmg reduction things (like carapce+protection of you run dm which is at least a lot better than bm) just doesn't make you survive if you get focused by 3+ people, disenganging does.

As I said before I used to love condi reaper and more recently condi scourge in smallscale but they were always the easiest class to focus down, I personally enjoyed that the class rewarded having a strong support as you then could outsustain multiple enemies in say a 2v5 or something, but by itself a necro is by far the easiest class to secure a kill on as their only option is to engage in every fight.

[DaVid Darksoul.4985]

@Mokk.2397 said:

@grave of hearts.7830 said:

@Mokk.2397 said:

@"lodjur.1284" said:43% of all users need to lose forum privileges. This isn't a question of opinion.

There's a reason necro is 90% of the time the first target in fights, they have little to no mobility, few stunbreaks, close to 0 stab. Even if you build tanky it isn't gonna help you survive if you're being focused by a few good players, or a lot of bad players. Necro is like a show hp sponge, sure it takes like 50k dmg to kill one but they will rarely actually get away.

Some patches the class makes up for it by being an offensive powerhouse other patches it doesn't.

BS!!!!!Necro has plenty stun breaks like any class . Necrotic Traversal ,Plague Signe, Spectral Armor ,Spectral Walk ,Well of Power , "You Are All Weaklings!" ,Trail of AnguishNecro has as many speed traits and speed skills as any class . Signet of the Locust and Quickening ThirstNecro has plenty healing in the form of Life LeechAlso necros have more condi removal than any class .Stop playing the Meta necro and trait properly then you will survive better.

Life leech huh?How much is that coefficient again?

Each life steal heals for a specific amount. Some life steals scale off of healing power while others don't. There are plenty of necro skills and traits that do this Put something in healing and spec your build accordingly . As I said stop expecting others to carry you and build for more self reliance.

Hmmmm.. could you please post your build.

[KeyOrion.9506]

Not even going to vote. I seen every class die to something, and usually from a specific build that the opposing force wasn't prepared for. Then again I treat WvW builds like I treat Rock, Paper, Scissors. One will always beat the other, and then circle back round again.

[grave of hearts.7830]

No transfusion no shroud currently,i think this needs a little bump.

Because lets face ,all necromancers who wvw now want to have a word with the guy doing balance.

[Sylvia.4870]

On 12/4/2019 at 4:24 AM, Sovereign.1093 said:

and some run a bad scourge, where they spam f1 first. cooldown rotation makes it less mobile unless they run the port tele thing x worm and green armor skill (forgot the names.)

i got to try playing it again.

   The green armor skill that necromancers use is called, ''Spectral Walk''.

Edited March 11, 2022 by Sylvia.4870