To those who think CORE POWER MES is OP.

[TAIKA.1903]

I did play as a mesmer for a long time, at least, I wanna show you some video that core power mesmers are not as OP and easy as you think.All these videos are from White Short's twitch, this player is top10~25 in NA now.

=============================================================1.In this video, you would see White Short's only 1 shot ppl from stealth successfully 4 times.A.14:30 RANGER (100%>0%)B. 10:10 Warrior (90%>0%)C. 8:40 Warrior (100%>0%)D. 2:50 Warrior (90%>0%)Because there was no thief on enemy's team, so he could try 1 shot easily again and again.https://www.twitch.tv/videos/516705405?t=02h28m30s

==============================================================

2. White Short faced TEAM USA in AT. In this match, you can notice he only got a chance 1 shot rev. After that, he couldn't do anything.

He couldn't join teamfight, because he would die so fast.

He couldn't decap easily because the thief focused on him.https://www.twitch.tv/videos/515313010?t=01h30m35s

==============================================================3.This video shows he only got a chance 1 shot a thief. (at 5:50)Because there were two thieves in enemy's team, and all enemies knew they have to take care the core power mesmers (There were two core power mesmers.)https://www.twitch.tv/videos/518098743?t=00h25m43s

==============================================================

To those who still think core power mesmer is a really OP class, just try it.

Do you think it is a easy class that can help you get into top 100 in EU like shadowpass? OH, sorry, shadowpass did not get top 100 tittle with this build.

White Short usually plays as a condi mirage in ranked, not core power mesmer. Because condi mirages could work in much more situations.

Please take some defence-skill, and there is no chance that core power mesmer 1 shot you in a second.

[storm.3120]

@"TAIKA.1903" said:Do you think it is a easy class that can help you get into top 100 in EU like shadowpass? OH, sorry, shadowpass did not get top 100 tittle with this build.He is a meme that failed to prove his claims, such a letdown. (Oh that moment when his team won 4x5 vs miaz when he was useless the entire game and brag that he won xD)On the topic: remove PU/MoP and this will end Shorts gaming career.I actually watched some vs team USA. Love that moment when he tried to "oneshot" FB in a teamfight that took absolutely zero damage (FB is not OP, dont even think about it xD).At 1:34:46+ approach to FB and casting MoP, I guess, even when you cast it stealth, people can hear the mantra chant, so he got burnt and guardian used his evades because usually burst is going to happen next.

[Leonidrex.5649]

@TAIKA.1903 everyone with any braincells knows this.This builds whole concept is to farm bad players.In fact mesmers entire concept is to farm bad players, lol.

[ButterPeanut.9746]

"OP" isn't the right term. "Unfun" is the is more appropriate. Regardless of it's effectiveness, perma stealth one shot builds aren't fun to play against. Your clips are also from a gamemode which has a built in counter to stealth with it's capture points. I can only imagine how unfun it is in wvw where there is effectively no counter to stealth.

[TAIKA.1903]

@"ButterPeanut.9746" said:"OP" isn't the right term. "Unfun" is the is more appropriate. Regardless of it's effectiveness, perma stealth one shot builds aren't fun to play against. Your clips are also from a gamemode which has a built in counter to stealth with it's capture points. I can only imagine how unfun it is in wvw where there is effectively no counter to stealth.

Unfun?

I don't think "unfun" is the excuse. When I was killed by other class, I usually think it is unfun.

Just like I think s/d, s/p thieves are also unfun.Rifle warrior like Ajaxx is also unfun.

By the way, team USA is also unfun when I meet them in mAT. How about ban team USA forever? Come on. lol

As I said, if you bring some passive defence-skill, nothing would make you unfun. The core power mesmers would feel unfun because he can't 1 shot you.

And he will be useless if all of your teammates bring some passive defence-skill. By the way, good thief or rev could make the mesmer feel unfun, too.

[Neil.3825]

Kill in less than 1 second should not exist in MMORPG, no matter the build you have or your ennemi's build. It's not healthy for the game even without invi. And I don't talk about mesmer only here.You don't even really fight with this build, you instant kill or are instant killed that's kitten.Nerf damage and compense it with more survability or something else, I don't know.

[Stand The Wall.6987]

yeah you're missing the point. its a no counter play build, and those are garbage. sure if you're really good at the game you can play around it, but balancing for the top 10% of players is retarded when the other 90% is saying "hey this sort of thing makes me want to log off". at some point the player base has to suck it up, but getting one shot from stealth is not that point.

[Zexanima.7851]

@TAIKA.1903 said:

@"ButterPeanut.9746" said:"OP" isn't the right term. "Unfun" is the is more appropriate. Regardless of it's effectiveness, perma stealth one shot builds aren't fun to play against. Your clips are also from a gamemode which has a built in counter to stealth with it's capture points. I can only imagine how unfun it is in wvw where there is effectively no counter to stealth.

Unfun?

I don't think "unfun" is the excuse. When I was killed by other class, I usually think it is unfun.

Just like I think s/d, s/p thieves are also unfun.Rifle warrior like Ajaxx is also unfun.

By the way, team USA is also unfun when I meet them in mAT. How about ban team USA forever? Come on. lol

As I said, if you bring some passive defence-skill, nothing would make you unfun. The core power mesmers would feel unfun because he can't 1 shot you.

And he will be useless if all of your teammates bring some passive defence-skill. By the way, good thief or rev could make the mesmer feel unfun, too.

When I'm killed by other professions I usually have a good time fighting before hand. When a profession brings me down in "one shot" or near so it makes me question why even play if I'm not going to get to actually play? Also, if the build is so weak then why not just get rid of it all together and save everyone some headaches. I really don't understand why people so vehemently defend cheese builds. Why not have it nerfed into oblivion and replaced with something actually useful. Cheese builds are not fun to play against for new/unskilled players, they are useless in hire tier play and they don't really promote build diversity since they are not "good" builds.

[Lala.8752]

just delete berserker amulet => problem solved

[reikken.4961]

It's not OP. It's just bad design and bad for the game.

[Fearless.3569]

Builds like that make me not want to play GW2. And instead go play another game that don't have that trash.

[Paradoxoglanis.1904]

@TAIKA.1903 said:

@"ButterPeanut.9746" said:"OP" isn't the right term. "Unfun" is the is more appropriate. Regardless of it's effectiveness, perma stealth one shot builds aren't fun to play against. Your clips are also from a gamemode which has a built in counter to stealth with it's capture points. I can only imagine how unfun it is in wvw where there is effectively no counter to stealth.

Unfun?

I don't think "unfun" is the excuse. When I was killed by other class, I usually think it is unfun.

Just like I think s/d, s/p thieves are also unfun.Rifle warrior like Ajaxx is also unfun.

By the way, team USA is also unfun when I meet them in mAT. How about ban team USA forever? Come on. lol

As I said, if you bring some passive defence-skill, nothing would make you unfun. The core power mesmers would feel unfun because he can't 1 shot you.

And he will be useless if all of your teammates bring some passive defence-skill. By the way, good thief or rev could make the mesmer feel unfun, too.

Most people find stealth 1 shot builds frustrating to fight because of the lack of counterplay. Either they 1 shot you and win, or they disengage and try again. Most builds arent tanky enough to survive a full burst combo, and most builds arent mobile enough to chase them down. Its not a question of altering your playstyle and changing builds to counter it, its a limitation of the game and a flaw in its design. Your counter arguments of other "unfun" parts of the game just show that you completely missed the point. Some playstyles are acceptable or necessary, others are very questionable.

[ButterPeanut.9746]

@TAIKA.1903 said:

@"ButterPeanut.9746" said:"OP" isn't the right term. "Unfun" is the is more appropriate. Regardless of it's effectiveness, perma stealth one shot builds aren't fun to play against. Your clips are also from a gamemode which has a built in counter to stealth with it's capture points. I can only imagine how unfun it is in wvw where there is effectively no counter to stealth.

Unfun?

I don't think "unfun" is the excuse. When I was killed by other class, I usually think it is unfun.

Just like I think s/d, s/p thieves are also unfun.Rifle warrior like Ajaxx is also unfun.

By the way, team USA is also unfun when I meet them in mAT. How about ban team USA forever? Come on. lol

As I said, if you bring some passive defence-skill, nothing would make you unfun. The core power mesmers would feel unfun because he can't 1 shot you.

And he will be useless if all of your teammates bring some passive defence-skill. By the way, good thief or rev could make the mesmer feel unfun, too.

I'm not saying it's an excuse, but rather pointing out that your OP vs not OP argument is based on effectiveness.

Effectiveness is only one measure of balance (albeit an important measure), but it is also based on the effectiveness of all other builds.

My point is that regardless of the current meta and how effective one shot mantra core Mesmer is, I would argue it should be changed due to how horrible it is to play against.

Even if every single class had the thief passive to evade on like a 60s CD, therefore making one shot core Mesmer less effective, it should still be changed in my opinion.

[Math.5123]

https://clips.twitch.tv/HonorableWanderingPigeonJKanStyle

Copy paste, forum re-direct isnt working.

[storm.3120]

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:https://clips.twitch.tv/HonorableWanderingPigeonJKanStyle

Copy paste, forum re-direct isnt working.So, got caught without any cd by zerk build, did you expect it to hit you for 100 damage?

[Math.5123]

@Odik.4587 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

https://clips.twitch.tv/HonorableWanderingPigeonJKanStyle

Copy paste, forum re-direct isnt working.So, got caught without any cd by zerk build, did you expect it to hit you for 100 damage?

Considering I died within the stun, from stealth. Cd's wouldn't have mattered much, would they?

Playing that back in slowmotion, from the moment I took the first damage till I was dead. It took .64 seconds. Counting in a button-press to stunbreak and then to dodge, WITH ping. I don't know dude.

I'm not saying it's overpowered, I'm saying it's stupid.

Edit; and Mind Wrack should NOT crit for 6k with 1 clone. It's an instant cast ability with no tell.

[storm.3120]

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@Odik.4587 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

https://clips.twitch.tv/HonorableWanderingPigeonJKanStyle

Copy paste, forum re-direct isnt working.So, got caught without any cd by zerk build, did you expect it to hit you for 100 damage?

Considering I died within the stun, from stealth. Cd's wouldn't have mattered much, would they?

Playing that back in slowmotion, from the moment I took the first damage till I was dead. It took .64 seconds. Counting in a button-press to stunbreak and then to dodge, WITH ping. I don't know dude.

I'm not saying it's overpowered, I'm saying it's stupid.

Edit; and Mind Wrack should NOT crit for 6k with 1 clone. It's an instant cast ability with no tell.Zerk build full damage, might, vulnerability, why not ? Also MW does less damage per clone being shattered :)This burst playstyle was the only thing that power mesmer could do since release and sustained damage/sustain was pretty meh for light armored class.If you want to change -> Nerf MoP, PU. Removing the damage without any compensation/rework would be dumb

[Zexanima.7851]

@Odik.4587 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@Odik.4587 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

https://clips.twitch.tv/HonorableWanderingPigeonJKanStyle

Copy paste, forum re-direct isnt working.So, got caught without any cd by zerk build, did you expect it to hit you for 100 damage?

Considering I died within the stun, from stealth. Cd's wouldn't have mattered much, would they?

Playing that back in slowmotion, from the moment I took the first damage till I was dead. It took .64 seconds. Counting in a button-press to stunbreak and then to dodge, WITH ping. I don't know dude.

I'm not saying it's overpowered, I'm saying it's stupid.

Edit; and Mind Wrack should NOT crit for 6k with 1 clone. It's an instant cast ability with no tell.Zerk build full damage, might, vulnerability, why not ? Also MW does less damage per clone being shattered :)This burst playstyle was the only thing that power mesmer could do since release and sustained damage/sustain was pretty meh for light armored class.If you want to change -> Nerf MoP, PU. Removing the damage without any compensation/rework would be dumb

I don't think anyone is really against giving core mesmer a good, non-cheesy alternative. I would honestly love for mesmer to have something more "duelist" focused instead of "stealth bursty" focused since that seems to be part of their theme.

[Leonidrex.5649]

@Zexanima.7851 said:

@Odik.4587 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@Odik.4587 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

https://clips.twitch.tv/HonorableWanderingPigeonJKanStyle

Copy paste, forum re-direct isnt working.So, got caught without any cd by zerk build, did you expect it to hit you for 100 damage?

Considering I died within the stun, from stealth. Cd's wouldn't have mattered much, would they?

Playing that back in slowmotion, from the moment I took the first damage till I was dead. It took .64 seconds. Counting in a button-press to stunbreak and then to dodge, WITH ping. I don't know dude.

I'm not saying it's overpowered, I'm saying it's stupid.

Edit; and Mind Wrack should NOT crit for 6k with 1 clone. It's an instant cast ability with no tell.Zerk build full damage, might, vulnerability, why not ? Also MW does less damage per clone being shattered :)This burst playstyle was the only thing that power mesmer could do since release and sustained damage/sustain was pretty meh for light armored class.If you want to change -> Nerf MoP, PU. Removing the damage without any compensation/rework would be dumb

I don't think anyone is really against giving core mesmer a good, non-cheesy alternative. I would honestly love for mesmer to have something more "duelist" focused instead of "stealth bursty" focused since that seems to be part of their theme.

Mesmer theme is fucking with oponents.Potatoes get boomed and complain, preety much.

[Shao.7236]

@Zexanima.7851 said:

@Odik.4587 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@Odik.4587 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

https://clips.twitch.tv/HonorableWanderingPigeonJKanStyle

Copy paste, forum re-direct isnt working.So, got caught without any cd by zerk build, did you expect it to hit you for 100 damage?

Considering I died within the stun, from stealth. Cd's wouldn't have mattered much, would they?

Playing that back in slowmotion, from the moment I took the first damage till I was dead. It took .64 seconds. Counting in a button-press to stunbreak and then to dodge, WITH ping. I don't know dude.

I'm not saying it's overpowered, I'm saying it's stupid.

Edit; and Mind Wrack should NOT crit for 6k with 1 clone. It's an instant cast ability with no tell.Zerk build full damage, might, vulnerability, why not ? Also MW does less damage per clone being shattered :)This burst playstyle was the only thing that power mesmer could do since release and sustained damage/sustain was pretty meh for light armored class.If you want to change -> Nerf MoP, PU. Removing the damage without any compensation/rework would be dumb

I don't think anyone is really against giving core mesmer a good, non-cheesy alternative. I would honestly love for mesmer to have something more "duelist" focused instead of "stealth bursty" focused since that seems to be part of their theme.

They can be like that, the problem is the stacking of stealth and Blink cooldown allows for it along the lack of Reveal on Mirror Blade.

[Leonidrex.5649]

@Shao.7236 said:

@Zexanima.7851 said:

@Odik.4587 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@Odik.4587 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

https://clips.twitch.tv/HonorableWanderingPigeonJKanStyle

Copy paste, forum re-direct isnt working.So, got caught without any cd by zerk build, did you expect it to hit you for 100 damage?

Considering I died within the stun, from stealth. Cd's wouldn't have mattered much, would they?

Playing that back in slowmotion, from the moment I took the first damage till I was dead. It took .64 seconds. Counting in a button-press to stunbreak and then to dodge, WITH ping. I don't know dude.

I'm not saying it's overpowered, I'm saying it's stupid.

Edit; and Mind Wrack should NOT crit for 6k with 1 clone. It's an instant cast ability with no tell.Zerk build full damage, might, vulnerability, why not ? Also MW does less damage per clone being shattered :)This burst playstyle was the only thing that power mesmer could do since release and sustained damage/sustain was pretty meh for light armored class.If you want to change -> Nerf MoP, PU. Removing the damage without any compensation/rework would be dumb

I don't think anyone is really against giving core mesmer a good, non-cheesy alternative. I would honestly love for mesmer to have something more "duelist" focused instead of "stealth bursty" focused since that seems to be part of their theme.

They can be like that, the problem is the stacking of stealth and Blink cooldown allows for it along the lack of Reveal on Mirror Blade.

nnNNNnnoooo they added reveal onto Mirror blade.Now combo is s3->s2->f1 woooow what a changee.

[Sindrener.1592]

@Odik.4587 said:

@"TAIKA.1903" said:Do you think it is a easy class that can help you get into top 100 in EU like shadowpass? OH, sorry, shadowpass did not get top 100 tittle with this build.He is a meme that failed to prove his claims, such a letdown. (Oh that moment when his team won 4x5 vs miaz when he was useless the entire game and brag that he won xD)On the topic: remove PU/MoP and this will end Shorts gaming career.I actually watched some vs team USA. Love that moment when he tried to "oneshot" FB in a teamfight that took absolutely zero damage (FB is not OP, dont even think about it xD).At 1:34:46+ approach to FB and casting MoP, I guess,

even when you cast it stealth, people can hear the mantra chant

, so he got burnt and guardian used his evades because usually burst is going to happen next.

only time i agree with you, he's a joke

[ButterPeanut.9746]

@Odik.4587 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@Odik.4587 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

https://clips.twitch.tv/HonorableWanderingPigeonJKanStyle

Copy paste, forum re-direct isnt working.So, got caught without any cd by zerk build, did you expect it to hit you for 100 damage?

Considering I died within the stun, from stealth. Cd's wouldn't have mattered much, would they?

Playing that back in slowmotion, from the moment I took the first damage till I was dead. It took .64 seconds. Counting in a button-press to stunbreak and then to dodge, WITH ping. I don't know dude.

I'm not saying it's overpowered, I'm saying it's stupid.

Edit; and Mind Wrack should NOT crit for 6k with 1 clone. It's an instant cast ability with no tell.Zerk build full damage, might, vulnerability, why not ? Also MW does less damage per clone being shattered :)This burst playstyle was the only thing that power mesmer could do since release and sustained damage/sustain was pretty meh for light armored class.If you want to change -> Nerf MoP, PU. Removing the damage without any compensation/rework would be dumb

Not necessarily remove the damage, but spread it out. I personally wouldn't mind some very small cast times on F1-F3 and possibly MoP activation so you can't instantaneously do all of the burst.This would also fix one of the more annoying things to happen when fighting mesmer:

• Outplay mesmer and land a melee CC burst when they have no stunbreaks or dodges left?
• Mesmer lives because F3 cast while stunned :(

[Math.5123]

@Odik.4587 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@Odik.4587 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

https://clips.twitch.tv/HonorableWanderingPigeonJKanStyle

Copy paste, forum re-direct isnt working.So, got caught without any cd by zerk build, did you expect it to hit you for 100 damage?

Considering I died within the stun, from stealth. Cd's wouldn't have mattered much, would they?

Playing that back in slowmotion, from the moment I took the first damage till I was dead. It took .64 seconds. Counting in a button-press to stunbreak and then to dodge, WITH ping. I don't know dude.

I'm not saying it's overpowered, I'm saying it's stupid.

Edit; and Mind Wrack should NOT crit for 6k with 1 clone. It's an instant cast ability with no tell.Zerk build full damage, might, vulnerability, why not ? Also MW does less damage per clone being shattered :)This burst playstyle was the only thing that power mesmer could do since release and sustained damage/sustain was pretty meh for light armored class.If you want to change -> Nerf MoP, PU. Removing the damage without any compensation/rework would be dumb

No, Mind Wrack does more damage per shattered clone.

1 Illusion: 306 (1.15)2 Illusions (2x): 426 (1.6)3 Illusions (3x): 558 (2.1)

But yes, Mantra of Pain should get an animation and PU should get removed.

[Leonidrex.5649]

@ButterPeanut.9746 said:

@Odik.4587 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@Odik.4587 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

https://clips.twitch.tv/HonorableWanderingPigeonJKanStyle

Copy paste, forum re-direct isnt working.So, got caught without any cd by zerk build, did you expect it to hit you for 100 damage?

Considering I died within the stun, from stealth. Cd's wouldn't have mattered much, would they?

Playing that back in slowmotion, from the moment I took the first damage till I was dead. It took .64 seconds. Counting in a button-press to stunbreak and then to dodge, WITH ping. I don't know dude.

I'm not saying it's overpowered, I'm saying it's stupid.

Edit; and Mind Wrack should NOT crit for 6k with 1 clone. It's an instant cast ability with no tell.Zerk build full damage, might, vulnerability, why not ? Also MW does less damage per clone being shattered :)This burst playstyle was the only thing that power mesmer could do since release and sustained damage/sustain was pretty meh for light armored class.If you want to change -> Nerf MoP, PU. Removing the damage without any compensation/rework would be dumb

Not necessarily remove the damage, but spread it out. I personally wouldn't mind some very small cast times on F1-F3 and possibly MoP activation so you can't instantaneously do all of the burst.This would also fix one of the more annoying things to happen when fighting mesmer:

• Outplay mesmer and land a melee CC burst when they have no stunbreaks or dodges left?
• Mesmer lives because F3 cast while stunned :(

Sure, then go ahead and buff every living shit of every single weapon skill, trait and ability they have so they can compeate with overtuned specs.