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Please, remove Social awkwardness from Siren's


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@"NorthernRedStar.3054" said:

You should try Siren's T4 with SA. Try it once at least. You will see how oooooooooooften you will find yourself kicking other people off (and othe people kicking you off) the boat.

The only fractal where someone's 'kicked [[[[me]]]] off' (and it happened only once) has been Uncategorized.That "me" is what makes your argument valid ONLY FOR YOU.

Oh yes, the best suggestion ever. Go do PVP to learn how to deal with a fractal

Good mechanical basis aids in every game mode. Shocker, isn't it?Well, shocking in the sense that you think that Siren's T4 with S.A. boat fight is just a matter of dodging.Fractals in general, and Siren's (with S.A.) in particular, are not difficult because people don't know how to dodge. And even less because they are not PVP specialists. The fractal mechanics with a ton of adds, the 3 pushing winds and the ultralimited safe floor areas during boat fight are what make this fight hard and so annoying when there is S.A. (that being the reason because so many people skip Siren's), and as far as I know, there is nothing of that in PVP. Shocking, really.

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@Taygus.4571 said:I dont understand all the people against this.

Arent there a few fractals already that some instabilities black listed?

Sirens reef has very little space, and then there's the green circle that requires players to stacl in..that is very hard to do with social awkwardness.

The problem is that the design of SR is quite terrible. It already has so many instabilities blacklisted. The way we are going it's going to end up only having half of the instabilities enabled.

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@Ganathar.4956 said:

@Taygus.4571 said:I dont understand all the people against this.

Arent there a few fractals already that some instabilities black listed?

Sirens reef has very little space, and then there's the green circle that requires players to stacl in..that is very hard to do with social awkwardness.

The problem is that the design of SR is quite terrible. It already has so many instabilities blacklisted. The way we are going it's going to end up only having half of the instabilities enabled.

I don't see that as a problem. They shouldve considered instabilities in the design. They didn't.

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@Pirindolo.9427 said:

@Yasi.9065 said:Heres the thing though. Fractal instabilities are just additional mechanics to deal with. Some are easier to deal with, others are more difficult. Some are annoying, some you can basically ignore because you already have the toolkit to deal with them easily.

So far we agree. Every people agree on that. Nothing new.I dont think you really know what I said there, but okay.

@Yasi.9065 said:SA is fine.Correction: SA is fine for you. I consider the opposite, and you know that the majority of the playerbase is closer to my opinion than yours.Majority? Proof? Wheres the data?

@Yasi.9065 said:Sirens Reef is fine.Correction: Siren's Reef is fine for you. I consider the opposite, and you know that the majority of the playerbase is closer to my opinion than yours.Again. Data?

@Yasi.9065 said:What needs to change is the mentality of fractal pugs. Instead of skipping it you should find a way to deal easily with it.

Are you serious? So Anet should change its business? Instead of developping (and changing) a game to attract more players, they should dedicate themselves to manipulate the mind of their potential playerbase? Social engineering? Come on!!!You and sadly many others havent yet realized that computer games arent an interactive movie with chatroom.Let me put it bluntly: If you want your daily dopamin rush, then earn it. You are getting handed out more than enough in GW2 already. Stop demanding nerfs to every little tiny challenge in the game left. If you cant handle it (skillwise, emotionally or whatever) then go somewhere else. GW2 is big enough for you to not bother with something you dont like.

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@"Taygus.4571" said:I dont understand all the people against this.

Arent there a few fractals already that some instabilities black listed?

Sirens reef has very little space, and then there's the green circle that requires players to stacl in..that is very hard to do with social awkwardness.

5 people fit into the green circle with SA, Ive seen that more than enough. But you dont even need 5... or 3..., just 1 additional person is already enough to not downstate from the attack on a squishy class - without protection.

Lets face it, the problem with Sirens Reef is people not understanding how the game works. I often see pugs wipe because theres no protection, no condi cleanse, no reflect and people dropping red circles on the boss. Not to mention, everyone getting blown of the ship at least once.

You can start demanding nerfs to an instability in a fractal when a group that without the instability has no trouble (as in: all mechanics dealt with in one way or another without constantly downstating), suddenly has immense trouble getting the fractal finished. Thats a valid complain, since instabilities arent supposed to impact that much. However saying things like "its unfun, I dont like it, the mystical majority doesnt like it" are NOT valid complaints. And just because a group that ALREADY struggles without an instability suddenly cant kill the boss anymore, doesnt mean thats because of that instability and both should be nerfed. Rather: the group that struggles should take a look at itself and IMPROVE to the point where its just a mere annoyance because ah well, its not a golem boss.

And before some smart person argues with gatekeeping, GW2 is an MMORPG. Its not candy crush. In an MMORPG it is absolutely fine to have content that cant be finished by everyone. Thats part of this genre. Thats the big motivation behind playing an MMORPGs. Not the loot. Not the community. Those are just filler. Its the goals and the dopaminrush you get from finally.. FINALLY getting that goal finished. GW2 is already quite far from that principle, which seems to be the reason why some people think its okay to push and bully Anets Devs even more towards turning GW2 into candy crush. Please stop it. Its ridiculous. And easymode loot wont give you that dopamin high you want anyway.

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@Pirindolo.9427 said:

@"NorthernRedStar.3054" said:

You should try Siren's T4 with SA. Try it once at least. You will see how oooooooooooften you will find yourself kicking other people off (and othe people kicking you off) the boat.

The only fractal where someone's 'kicked [[[[me]]]] off' (and it happened only once) has been Uncategorized.That "me" is what makes your argument valid ONLY FOR YOU.

Oh yes, the best suggestion ever. Go do PVP to learn how to deal with a fractal

Good mechanical basis aids in every game mode. Shocker, isn't it?Well, shocking in the sense that you think that Siren's T4 with S.A. boat fight is just a matter of dodging.Fractals in general, and Siren's (with S.A.) in particular, are not difficult because people don't know how to dodge. And even less because they are not PVP specialists. The fractal mechanics with a ton of adds, the 3 pushing winds and the ultralimited safe floor areas during boat fight are what make this fight hard and so annoying when there is S.A. (that being the reason because so many people skip Siren's), and as far as I know, there is nothing of that in PVP. Shocking, really.

Never once did I say it's "just a matter of dodging". Don't twist my words, only villains do that. If you think there's nothing similar to PvP in the last boat fight, you're gravely mistaken and, unfortunately, shallow-minded as well.

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If the problem for you and most of the pugs (according to you) is the pushing mechanic of SA, why ask for removal? Propose a change, like make Social Awkwardness behave how it used to in Siren's Reef.

There you go - no more pushing, and the instability will still be there for those that are not mechanically handicapped.

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@Yasi.9065 said:

@Yasi.9065 said:Heres the thing though. Fractal instabilities are just additional mechanics to deal with. Some are easier to deal with, others are more difficult. Some are annoying, some you can basically ignore because you already have the toolkit to deal with them easily.

So far we agree. Every people agree on that. Nothing new.I dont think you really know what I said there, but okay.I am starting to think that you are smarter than me.

@Yasi.9065 said:SA is fine.Correction: SA is fine for you. I consider the opposite, and you know that the majority of the playerbase is closer to my opinion than yours.Majority? Proof? Wheres the data?Just make a search in these forums with "social awkwardness" term and read a bit. I won't do it for you.

@Yasi.9065 said:Sirens Reef is fine.Correction: Siren's Reef is fine for you. I consider the opposite, and you know that the majority of the playerbase is closer to my opinion than yours.Again. Data?Just make a search in these forums with "Siren's reef" term and read a bit. I won't do it for you.

@Yasi.9065 said:What needs to change is the mentality of fractal pugs. Instead of skipping it you should find a way to deal easily with it.

Are you serious? So Anet should change its business? Instead of developping (and changing) a game to attract more players, they should dedicate themselves to manipulate the mind of their potential playerbase? Social engineering? Come on!!!

You and sadly many others havent yet realized that computer games arent an interactive movie with chatroom.Let me put it bluntly: If you want your daily dopamin rush, then earn it. You are getting handed out more than enough in GW2 already. Stop demanding nerfs to every little tiny challenge in the game left. If you cant handle it (skillwise, emotionally or whatever) then go somewhere else. GW2 is big enough for you to not bother with something you dont like.

Let me put in bluntly (for the third time, dedicated to the "git gud" boys):@Pirindolo.9427 " said:For you and all the "git gud" boys that don't read: Again, and last time: it is not a matter of how difficult it is, but a matter of how bad design fractals keep more and more ppl skipping them from the daily run.
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@NorthernRedStar.3054 said:

You should try Siren's T4 with SA. Try it once at least. You will see how oooooooooooften you will find yourself kicking other people off (and othe people kicking you off) the boat.

The only fractal where someone's 'kicked [[[[me]]]] off' (and it happened only once) has been Uncategorized.That "me" is what makes your argument valid ONLY FOR YOU.

Oh yes, the best suggestion ever. Go do PVP to learn how to deal with a fractal

Good mechanical basis aids in every game mode. Shocker, isn't it?Well, shocking in the sense that you think that Siren's T4 with S.A. boat fight is just a matter of dodging.Fractals in general, and Siren's (with S.A.) in particular, are not difficult because people don't know how to dodge. And even less because they are not PVP specialists. The fractal mechanics with a ton of adds, the 3 pushing winds and the ultralimited safe floor areas during boat fight are what make this fight hard and so annoying when there is S.A. (that being the reason because so many people skip Siren's), and as far as I know, there is nothing of that in PVP. Shocking, really.

Never once did I say it's "just a matter of dodging". Don't twist my words, only villains do that. If you think there's nothing similar to PvP in the last boat fight, you're gravely mistaken and, unfortunately, shallow-minded as well.

Ok, in that case, tell me what all those players that skip Siren's Reef T4 can learn doing PVP that will be so useful that they will come back to this fractal. That's what you said, right? Shallow-minded.... How would you qualify me if I said that doing world bosses is the best you can do to become a good and succesful PVP player?

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@"blambidy.3216" said:The best part of slippery slope is having it with social awkwardness on cliff side. Pushing everyone off with the hammer. However people hated it even though it was the best part about cliff side instabilities.Well, apparently those people have disagreed with you about what constitutes "the best".

(although, if you consider that to be the "best part", you must have a really bad opinion about all the other instabilities)

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@Pirindolo.9427 said:

You should try Siren's T4 with SA. Try it once at least. You will see how oooooooooooften you will find yourself kicking other people off (and othe people kicking you off) the boat.

The only fractal where someone's 'kicked [[[[me]]]] off' (and it happened only once) has been Uncategorized.That "me" is what makes your argument valid ONLY FOR YOU.

Oh yes, the best suggestion ever. Go do PVP to learn how to deal with a fractal

Good mechanical basis aids in every game mode. Shocker, isn't it?Well, shocking in the sense that you think that Siren's T4 with S.A. boat fight is just a matter of dodging.Fractals in general, and Siren's (with S.A.) in particular, are not difficult because people don't know how to dodge. And even less because they are not PVP specialists. The fractal mechanics with a ton of adds, the 3 pushing winds and the ultralimited safe floor areas during boat fight are what make this fight hard and so annoying when there is S.A. (that being the reason because so many people skip Siren's), and as far as I know, there is nothing of that in PVP. Shocking, really.

Never once did I say it's "just a matter of dodging". Don't twist my words, only villains do that. If you think there's nothing similar to PvP in the last boat fight, you're gravely mistaken and, unfortunately, shallow-minded as well.

Ok, in that case, tell me what all those players that skip Siren's Reef T4 can learn doing PVP that will be so useful that they will come back to this fractal. That's what you said, right? Shallow-minded.... How would you qualify me if I said that doing world bosses is the best you can do to become a good and succesful PVP player?

There are 4 tiers of fractals.

If your party can't handle it, then do tier 3. What do you lose? It's just that extra daily chest, some extra relics, and a bruised ego. None of which is consequential.

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@Pirindolo.9427 said:

@FOX.3582 said:

@Astralporing.1957 said:@FOX.3582Yes, because, obviously, the content can either be punishingly difficult, or laughably easy, there's nothing in between those two extremes[/sarcasm]

Nothing in this game goes beyond “laughably easy” though ...

And yet you like it so much that you even post in the game forums, like I do, by the why. Let's keep trying to improve this great game with things like removing S.A. from Sirens, so a lot of people that are now skipping that fractal will return to play it again. Don't you agree?

Not really here to add anything to the discussion, just wanted to say that this post and the one after are friggin hilarious. Really enjoyed your wit in your comments. :p

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@ArchonWing.9480 said:

Ok, in that case, tell me what all those players that skip Siren's Reef T4 can learn doing PVP that will be so useful that they will come back to this fractal. That's what you said, right? Shallow-minded.... How would you qualify me if I said that doing world bosses is the best you can do to become a good and succesful PVP player?

I see, no answer for that. I won't insist then

There are 4 tiers of fractals.

If your party can't handle it, then do tier 3. What do you lose? It's just that extra daily chest, some extra relics, and a bruised ego. None of which is consequential.

T4 has been a success over 99% of the times for me and my groups. But we are nottalking about me, even if you insist on it. What you seem to not understand is that nothing about this thread is about my personal taste or my personal problems to run this fractal. You probably think that I cannot deal with it, or maybe that I am such a bad player, that none of the pugs I land in are able to succeed. That's not the case. During the last years doing fractals, there have been less than 10 times in which I couldn't make a successful, complete T4 run. All of the cases, except for one, were because of Siren's with bad insts (S.A. being the worst in all cases). And in most cases I wasn't even able to start the fractal, because most players refused to do it.

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@"Pirindolo.9427" said:It's self explanatory. The rate of (miserable) failure of Siren's with S.A. is the highest of any fractal ever. You can see a lot of LFG messages saying: "Siren's@boss", "T4 (except for siren's)"... But the worst thing is that S.A. punishes you for doing what you have to do in the boat fight.

Please remove Siren's Reef from the game. It's the most unfun content I've ever played in over 6 years and I cringe every time I see it as daily.

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@Pirindolo.9427 said:

@ArchonWing.9480 said:T4 has been a success over 99% of the times for me and my groups. But we are nottalking about me, even if you insist on it. What you seem to not understand is that nothing about this thread is about my personal taste or my personal problems to run this fractal. You probably think that I cannot deal with it, or maybe that I am such a bad player, that none of the pugs I land in are able to succeed. That's not the case. During the last years doing fractals, there have been less than 10 times in which I couldn't make a successful, complete T4 run. All of the cases, except for one, were because of Siren's with bad insts (S.A. being the worst in all cases). And in most cases I wasn't even able to start the fractal, because most players refused to do it.

No, I don't care if you can do it or not. That's not my problem. Point is people don't have to skip SR completely; just roll a lower tier of it. If the group wants to do the other t4s and just a lower SR's, then it's hardly an issue. My post wasn't even about skill so no idea about what that's about.

I'm speaking in general to all that read this thread, not just about you. Note that I said your party

It simply is a non-issue. Not everything has to be done, just because it exists. Oh, and besides, it's not SA that is the problem with SR anyways. There are many worse combos that do not contain SA. I think the fractal would be much better if they would clear the adds between fights and not give mobs 1,000,000 aggro range.

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Huh, as a support I'd wish for MORE content like Siren's Reef. One of the funniest encounters in the game imo.

Now imagine if SA also dealt damage, the guys who bump you around would probably learn that they have an AOE field around their feet.

As an old WOW healer, I can confirm that people eventually learn to move away from the fire if they die instantly to it. If the fire doesn't do that much damage, but instead kills you in 2-3 ticks, everyone blames the healer for not playing their game for them :)

The current system is simply too soft and allows people to fool around without real consequences, till they hit an encounter where bumping another dude over the side of the ship actually matters a lot.

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@Pirindolo.9427 said:

Ok, in that case, tell me what all those players that skip Siren's Reef T4 can learn doing PVP that will be so useful that they will come back to this fractal. That's what you said, right? Shallow-minded.... How would you qualify me if I said that doing world bosses is the best you can do to become a good and succesful PVP player?

I see, no answer for that. I won't insist then

There are 4 tiers of fractals.

If your party can't handle it, then do tier 3. What do you lose? It's just that extra daily chest, some extra relics, and a bruised ego. None of which is consequential.

T4 has been a success over 99% of the times for me and my groups. But we are nottalking about me, even if you insist on it. What you seem to not understand is that nothing about this thread is about my personal taste or my personal problems to run this fractal. You probably think that I cannot deal with it, or maybe that I am such a bad player, that none of the pugs I land in are able to succeed. That's not the case. During the last years doing fractals, there have been less than 10 times in which I couldn't make a successful, complete T4 run. All of the cases, except for one, were because of Siren's with bad insts (S.A. being the worst in all cases). And in most cases I wasn't even able to start the fractal, because most players refused to do it.

That's entirely the players' fault for refusing to observe, learn and adapt - or, in the most common case, ask for tips . Don't blame the devs for the player base's innate cannibalism.

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The thread is nicely meant, but you forget something. 90% of the people you address will not read it.The rest don't want to, or can't understand other people's problems and will always exaggerate that to the extreme ^^''.E.g. the point that Anet just can't manage to adapt a learning curve into the game. T1-t4 is a joke about that~. They make 99% only 1 1 1 content and then try to bring something heavy into the game. Well~, then everyone is surprised that it doesn't work ^^. And of course the players are to blame because they are so bad~ and don't want to adapt to this 1% of the game.

On the other hand, it doesn't hurt anyone to just skip this 1%. I don't understand the mentality behind it. Just say, I can't, I'll try again later or leave it~.

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@"Finnkitkit.8304" said:On the other hand, it doesn't hurt anyone to just skip this 1%. I don't understand the mentality behind it. Just say, I can't, I'll try again later or leave it~.Oh, but it does hurt. Why? Because, as a result of this approach, this game has absolutely no midtier content. It's all either braindead easy, or hardcore tier.

There are a lot of players that want something more than just "pressing 1". It doesn't mean that all those players want to spend days and weeks on learning their class and/or specific encounters. They want something that is engaging, not hard. And there's nothing like that in this game anymore. All the content like that got adjusted towards one of the extremes long ago.

So, basically, it's not "just skip this 1%", but "just skip this 100%". And it works exactly as well as you might think it would.

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Well, but... instead of targeting the one responsible, you're targeting each other. Trying to get each other's content broken. Because we know from the past what happens when you want things to be nerfed.Anet could easily create such midtier content. The question is, what is midtier for the large majority.

For me as an individual raids are such midtier thing. HOT was great for me ... before everyone came and called it hardcore ...Well, at least after what's going on here in the forums, the majority wants easy content. No 1 1 1 content, but also no midtier content. Because ... sorry, but raids and other things are no 'extreme hardcore content'. Nothing in GW2 is hardcore~. And I just claim that I can say that as a moderate(middle-rate? What's the right word for that?) gamerin. I also have problems with things, die, ect. But gaming also involves adapting to things and learning ^^.And if someone needs weeks- in GW2 -to learn something ... that is for me personally a completely different story and has nothing to do with the game and its content.

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@"Finnkitkit.8304" said:Well, but... instead of targeting the one responsible, you're targeting each other. Trying to get each other's content broken. Because we know from the past what happens when you want things to be nerfed.Anet could easily create such midtier content. The question is, what is midtier for the large majority.

For me as an individual raids are such midtier thing. HOT was great for me ... before everyone came and called it hardcore ...Well, at least after what's going on here in the forums, the majority wants easy content. No 1 1 1 content, but also no midtier content. Because ... sorry, but raids and other things are no 'extreme hardcore content'. Nothing in GW2 is hardcore~. And I just claim that I can say that as a moderate(middle-rate? What's the right word for that?) gamerin. I also have problems with things, die, ect. But gaming also involves adapting to things and learning ^^.

For me, such a midtier content were dungeons and fractals. Before Anet abandoned the former and messed with the latter.And your "easy content" that is above "1 1 1" is the midtier content i am speaking about. Anything you need to spend time to prepare and/or learn before you can be succesful is hardcore tier. That hardcore tier that exists in GW2 may not be hard for you, but it's still hardcore tier when seen as a part of a wider picture.

And if someone needs weeks- in GW2 -to learn something ... that is for me personally a completely different story and has nothing to do with the game and its content.Hint: That "someone" is probably the majority of this game's players, you know. It's you that are not the average here, not them.

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