To those who think CORE POWER MES is OP.

[ButterPeanut.9746]

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@ButterPeanut.9746 said:

@Odik.4587 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@Odik.4587 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

https://clips.twitch.tv/HonorableWanderingPigeonJKanStyle

Copy paste, forum re-direct isnt working.So, got caught without any cd by zerk build, did you expect it to hit you for 100 damage?

Considering I died within the stun, from stealth. Cd's wouldn't have mattered much, would they?

Playing that back in slowmotion, from the moment I took the first damage till I was dead. It took .64 seconds. Counting in a button-press to stunbreak and then to dodge, WITH ping. I don't know dude.

I'm not saying it's overpowered, I'm saying it's stupid.

Edit; and Mind Wrack should NOT crit for 6k with 1 clone. It's an instant cast ability with no tell.Zerk build full damage, might, vulnerability, why not ? Also MW does less damage per clone being shattered :)This burst playstyle was the only thing that power mesmer could do since release and sustained damage/sustain was pretty meh for light armored class.If you want to change -> Nerf MoP, PU. Removing the damage without any compensation/rework would be dumb

Not necessarily remove the damage, but spread it out. I personally wouldn't mind some very small cast times on F1-F3 and possibly MoP activation so you can't instantaneously do all of the burst.This would also fix one of the more annoying things to happen when fighting mesmer:

• Outplay mesmer and land a melee CC burst when they have no stunbreaks or dodges left?
• Mesmer lives because F3 cast while stunned :(

Sure, then go ahead and buff every living kitten of every single weapon skill, trait and ability they have so they can compeate with overtuned specs.

Obviously this would come with lower damage across the board...which they have already confirmed they are doing.

[Leonidrex.5649]

@ButterPeanut.9746 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@ButterPeanut.9746 said:

@Odik.4587 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@Odik.4587 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

https://clips.twitch.tv/HonorableWanderingPigeonJKanStyle

Copy paste, forum re-direct isnt working.So, got caught without any cd by zerk build, did you expect it to hit you for 100 damage?

Considering I died within the stun, from stealth. Cd's wouldn't have mattered much, would they?

Playing that back in slowmotion, from the moment I took the first damage till I was dead. It took .64 seconds. Counting in a button-press to stunbreak and then to dodge, WITH ping. I don't know dude.

I'm not saying it's overpowered, I'm saying it's stupid.

Edit; and Mind Wrack should NOT crit for 6k with 1 clone. It's an instant cast ability with no tell.Zerk build full damage, might, vulnerability, why not ? Also MW does less damage per clone being shattered :)This burst playstyle was the only thing that power mesmer could do since release and sustained damage/sustain was pretty meh for light armored class.If you want to change -> Nerf MoP, PU. Removing the damage without any compensation/rework would be dumb

Not necessarily remove the damage, but spread it out. I personally wouldn't mind some very small cast times on F1-F3 and possibly MoP activation so you can't instantaneously do all of the burst.This would also fix one of the more annoying things to happen when fighting mesmer:

• Outplay mesmer and land a melee CC burst when they have no stunbreaks or dodges left?
• Mesmer lives because F3 cast while stunned :(

Sure, then go ahead and buff every living kitten of every single weapon skill, trait and ability they have so they can compeate with overtuned specs.

Obviously this would come with lower damage across the board...which they have already confirmed they are doing.

What they say and what they do are 2 different things.when they nerf meta, they nerf some things by 8-12% then fuck mesmer over with 50%.Hell then wanted to nerf Illusion of Life ( meme power ) by OVER 60%, its shitty version of FB signet, that nobody uses.Yet the first thought they had was fuck it by over 50% and forget. Staff too strong? fuck it by 50% and forget.

[storm.3120]

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@Odik.4587 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@Odik.4587 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

https://clips.twitch.tv/HonorableWanderingPigeonJKanStyle

Copy paste, forum re-direct isnt working.So, got caught without any cd by zerk build, did you expect it to hit you for 100 damage?

Considering I died within the stun, from stealth. Cd's wouldn't have mattered much, would they?

Playing that back in slowmotion, from the moment I took the first damage till I was dead. It took .64 seconds. Counting in a button-press to stunbreak and then to dodge, WITH ping. I don't know dude.

I'm not saying it's overpowered, I'm saying it's stupid.

Edit; and Mind Wrack should NOT crit for 6k with 1 clone. It's an instant cast ability with no tell.Zerk build full damage, might, vulnerability, why not ? Also MW does less damage per clone being shattered :)This burst playstyle was the only thing that power mesmer could do since release and sustained damage/sustain was pretty meh for light armored class.If you want to change -> Nerf MoP, PU. Removing the damage without any compensation/rework would be dumb

No, Mind Wrack does more damage per shattered clone.

1 Illusion: 306 (1.15)2 Illusions (2x): 426 (1.6)3 Illusions (3x): 558 (2.1)

But yes, Mantra of Pain should get an animation and PU should get removed.Less clones - more damage per MW, so 1 clone hit a lot.Try to shatter with 2 and 3 clones, u will see what I mean.

[ButterPeanut.9746]

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@ButterPeanut.9746 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@ButterPeanut.9746 said:

@Odik.4587 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@Odik.4587 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

https://clips.twitch.tv/HonorableWanderingPigeonJKanStyle

Copy paste, forum re-direct isnt working.So, got caught without any cd by zerk build, did you expect it to hit you for 100 damage?

Considering I died within the stun, from stealth. Cd's wouldn't have mattered much, would they?

Playing that back in slowmotion, from the moment I took the first damage till I was dead. It took .64 seconds. Counting in a button-press to stunbreak and then to dodge, WITH ping. I don't know dude.

I'm not saying it's overpowered, I'm saying it's stupid.

Edit; and Mind Wrack should NOT crit for 6k with 1 clone. It's an instant cast ability with no tell.Zerk build full damage, might, vulnerability, why not ? Also MW does less damage per clone being shattered :)This burst playstyle was the only thing that power mesmer could do since release and sustained damage/sustain was pretty meh for light armored class.If you want to change -> Nerf MoP, PU. Removing the damage without any compensation/rework would be dumb

Not necessarily remove the damage, but spread it out. I personally wouldn't mind some very small cast times on F1-F3 and possibly MoP activation so you can't instantaneously do all of the burst.This would also fix one of the more annoying things to happen when fighting mesmer:

• Outplay mesmer and land a melee CC burst when they have no stunbreaks or dodges left?
• Mesmer lives because F3 cast while stunned :(

Sure, then go ahead and buff every living kitten of every single weapon skill, trait and ability they have so they can compeate with overtuned specs.

Obviously this would come with lower damage across the board...which they have already confirmed they are doing.

What they say and what they do are 2 different things.when they nerf meta, they nerf some things by 8-12% then kitten mesmer over with 50%.Hell then wanted to nerf Illusion of Life ( meme power ) by OVER 60%, its kitten version of FB signet, that nobody uses.Yet the first thought they had was kitten it by over 50% and forget. Staff too strong? kitten it by 50% and forget.

Just be happy it wasn't a literal 3000% damage nerf like it was on 60% of the rampage tool kit :)

[mortrialus.3062]

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@Odik.4587 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@Odik.4587 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

https://clips.twitch.tv/HonorableWanderingPigeonJKanStyle

Copy paste, forum re-direct isnt working.So, got caught without any cd by zerk build, did you expect it to hit you for 100 damage?

Considering I died within the stun, from stealth. Cd's wouldn't have mattered much, would they?

Playing that back in slowmotion, from the moment I took the first damage till I was dead. It took .64 seconds. Counting in a button-press to stunbreak and then to dodge, WITH ping. I don't know dude.

I'm not saying it's overpowered, I'm saying it's stupid.

Edit; and Mind Wrack should NOT crit for 6k with 1 clone. It's an instant cast ability with no tell.Zerk build full damage, might, vulnerability, why not ? Also MW does less damage per clone being shattered :)This burst playstyle was the only thing that power mesmer could do since release and sustained damage/sustain was pretty meh for light armored class.If you want to change -> Nerf MoP, PU. Removing the damage without any compensation/rework would be dumb

No, Mind Wrack does more damage per shattered clone.

1 Illusion: 306 (1.15)2 Illusions (2x): 426 (1.6)3 Illusions (3x): 558 (2.1)

But yes, Mantra of Pain should get an animation and

PU should get removed.

Absolutely not. The idea that the mesmer stealth elite, which already has lower uptime than Toss Elixir S, should go back down to having Lower Uptime, Lower Duration, and 3x the cooldown is stupid.

Also that's not how Mind Wrack works I'll get some screen shots. It'll do more damage overall with a 3x clone shatter but each individual clone will do noticeably less damage.

[Leonidrex.5649]

@ButterPeanut.9746 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@ButterPeanut.9746 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@ButterPeanut.9746 said:

@Odik.4587 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@Odik.4587 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

https://clips.twitch.tv/HonorableWanderingPigeonJKanStyle

Copy paste, forum re-direct isnt working.So, got caught without any cd by zerk build, did you expect it to hit you for 100 damage?

Considering I died within the stun, from stealth. Cd's wouldn't have mattered much, would they?

Playing that back in slowmotion, from the moment I took the first damage till I was dead. It took .64 seconds. Counting in a button-press to stunbreak and then to dodge, WITH ping. I don't know dude.

I'm not saying it's overpowered, I'm saying it's stupid.

Edit; and Mind Wrack should NOT crit for 6k with 1 clone. It's an instant cast ability with no tell.Zerk build full damage, might, vulnerability, why not ? Also MW does less damage per clone being shattered :)This burst playstyle was the only thing that power mesmer could do since release and sustained damage/sustain was pretty meh for light armored class.If you want to change -> Nerf MoP, PU. Removing the damage without any compensation/rework would be dumb

Not necessarily remove the damage, but spread it out. I personally wouldn't mind some very small cast times on F1-F3 and possibly MoP activation so you can't instantaneously do all of the burst.This would also fix one of the more annoying things to happen when fighting mesmer:

• Outplay mesmer and land a melee CC burst when they have no stunbreaks or dodges left?
• Mesmer lives because F3 cast while stunned :(

Sure, then go ahead and buff every living kitten of every single weapon skill, trait and ability they have so they can compeate with overtuned specs.

Obviously this would come with lower damage across the board...which they have already confirmed they are doing.

What they say and what they do are 2 different things.when they nerf meta, they nerf some things by 8-12% then kitten mesmer over with 50%.Hell then wanted to nerf Illusion of Life ( meme power ) by OVER 60%, its kitten version of FB signet, that nobody uses.Yet the first thought they had was kitten it by over 50% and forget. Staff too strong? kitten it by 50% and forget.

Just be happy it wasn't a literal 3000% damage nerf like it was on 60% of the rampage tool kit :)

Yes I should be happy indeed that entire staff both 1, 2, 3,4 and 5 deals less damage then most classes basic attack.

[mortrialus.3062]

@Odik.4587 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@Odik.4587 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@Odik.4587 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

https://clips.twitch.tv/HonorableWanderingPigeonJKanStyle

Copy paste, forum re-direct isnt working.So, got caught without any cd by zerk build, did you expect it to hit you for 100 damage?

Considering I died within the stun, from stealth. Cd's wouldn't have mattered much, would they?

Playing that back in slowmotion, from the moment I took the first damage till I was dead. It took .64 seconds. Counting in a button-press to stunbreak and then to dodge, WITH ping. I don't know dude.

I'm not saying it's overpowered, I'm saying it's stupid.

Edit; and Mind Wrack should NOT crit for 6k with 1 clone. It's an instant cast ability with no tell.Zerk build full damage, might, vulnerability, why not ? Also MW does less damage per clone being shattered :)This burst playstyle was the only thing that power mesmer could do since release and sustained damage/sustain was pretty meh for light armored class.If you want to change -> Nerf MoP, PU. Removing the damage without any compensation/rework would be dumb

No, Mind Wrack does more damage per shattered clone.

1 Illusion: 306 (1.15)2 Illusions (2x): 426 (1.6)3 Illusions (3x): 558 (2.1)

But yes, Mantra of Pain should get an animation and PU should get removed.Less clones - more damage per MW, so 1 clone hit a lot.Try to shatter with 2 and 3 clones, u will see what I mean.

It's almost like this is the opposite of how it should be designed and that Mind Wrack should both hit harder per individual packet and hit more times if you take the time to set up more clones.

[mortrialus.3062]

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@Odik.4587 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@Odik.4587 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

https://clips.twitch.tv/HonorableWanderingPigeonJKanStyle

Copy paste, forum re-direct isnt working.So, got caught without any cd by zerk build, did you expect it to hit you for 100 damage?

Considering I died within the stun, from stealth. Cd's wouldn't have mattered much, would they?

Playing that back in slowmotion, from the moment I took the first damage till I was dead. It took .64 seconds. Counting in a button-press to stunbreak and then to dodge, WITH ping. I don't know dude.

I'm not saying it's overpowered, I'm saying it's stupid.

Edit; and Mind Wrack should NOT crit for 6k with 1 clone. It's an instant cast ability with no tell.Zerk build full damage, might, vulnerability, why not ? Also MW does less damage per clone being shattered :)This burst playstyle was the only thing that power mesmer could do since release and sustained damage/sustain was pretty meh for light armored class.If you want to change -> Nerf MoP, PU. Removing the damage without any compensation/rework would be dumb

No, Mind Wrack does more damage per shattered clone.

1 Illusion: 306 (1.15)2 Illusions (2x): 426 (1.6)3 Illusions (3x): 558 (2.1)

But yes, Mantra of Pain should get an animation and PU should get removed.

Berserker amulet noncrits.

1X Clone Plus Mesmer

3x Clone Plus Mesmer

So without might or crits a 3 clone ambush would hit for 3,748 over 4 packets of damage. A 1 clone ambush hit for 2,485 over two packets of damage.

[bravan.3876]

You ppl rly want to make this game clunky and unfun? Casttimes on Steal and Shatter? You rly don't play or understand the class mechanics. But yes lets go that way:

Lets also give Mirage the trade of that all casttimes are at least doubled to neutralize the ability to cover casts with dodges completely, ofc together with taking away the ability to dodge while stunned and delete IH what is the issue of nothing but just because it sounds so good and easy to ppl can't even understand the active and skillful part of that trait. Just delete that kitten already. Deadeye trade of will be that they are not able to leave any spawn in competitive game modes to compensate for their range and stealthuptime. Pets will attack the Soulbeast when he uses his f1 ability without being merged and Ranger dies instant when merging with the pet, dw your pet will still win the fight for you when you have Gazelle equipped. DH lose 50% hp everytime they block something, f3 now also blocks from behind to make sure there is no counter to the hp lose and FBs only have f1, f2 and f3 are deleted. Fb Mantras, or better all Mantras in the game get double casttime, after 2,25 secs recharge you have 1 secs casttime and a ticking bomb animation for 3 secs before the effect gets applied on the target or allies for each charge used, so also my 90yo grandma can dodge that. Reaper trade off will be that he does no dmg during shroud to focus more on its defensive nature and utilities. Weaver trade off: everytime a Weaver applies a boons to himself or allies he will lose 20 endurance and 20% healpower for 5 secs per boon and per target applied (stacking in duration and intensity ofc). Daredevil steal will have decreased range to 400 because somehow that kitten still gets played, that wasn't intended. Holos lose the ability to use skills 6-0 when in Holomode, they lose hp every moment they are in Holomode increasing with the headlvl and detonating the healturret will knockback the Holo for 2 secs. Scrapper apply Vulnerability, Poison and Chill to themself and allies in aoe range when having a gyro active. Hammer 3 is no evade and no leap finisher anymore. Chrono is fine as it is, that is the state of all builds we want to reach with the upcoming big balance patch that is on the horizon.

Did i forget a spec? Feel free to add any trade of idea that destroys the class/spec mechanic, makes it clunky and unfun and take care that you don't accidently add any skill ceiling/ floor during doing so. Your turn goldies!

[shadowpass.4236]

I literally solo qued up 200 rating in a week to top 60 with 6x my normal ping on a build I just started playing. Idk what you guys are on about but considering most of the people at those ranges have somewhat normal ping and duo qued on meta builds, that's a pretty good indicator on how easy it is to climb on mantra mes.

Also, I'm pretty sure Shorts prefers to play power mantra mes and a significant amount of games he's played (including ones with me on NA) consisted of it.

I had a loss streak right before season ended where a lot of players end up sitting on their rating after playing the min games required. As a result, the quality of my teammates completely tanked off the face of the planet. I still have the footage of my matches where most of them had DCs/AFKs very early on in the match (sub 200 points, even though I was still farming the enemy teams). Matches like those are unwinnable but it doesn't change the fact that I still ended up close to 1700 at the peak in only about a week of quing.

Lastly, if I remember correctly, I had a 60% winrate SOLO QUE on this "trash build" on EU servers where apparently everyone is "better."

[Leonidrex.5649]

@"shadowpass.4236" said:I literally solo qued up 200 rating in a week to top 60 with 6x my normal ping on a build I just started playing. Idk what you guys are on about but considering most of the people at those ranges have somewhat normal ping and duo qued on meta builds, that's a pretty good indicator on how easy it is to climb on mantra mes.

Also, I'm pretty sure Shorts prefers to play power mantra mes and a significant amount of games he's played (including ones with me on NA) consisted of it.

I had a loss streak right before season ended where a lot of players end up sitting on their rating after playing the min games required. As a result, the quality of my teammates completely tanked off the face of the planet. I still have the footage of my matches where most of them had DCs/AFKs very early on in the match (sub 200 points, even though I was still farming the enemy teams). Matches like those are unwinnable but it doesn't change the fact that I still ended up close to 1700 at the peak in only about a week of quing.

Lastly, if I remember correctly, I had a 60% winrate SOLO QUE on this "trash build" on EU servers where apparently everyone is "better."

I will give you a cool anecdoteIn Dia 1 ( my rank in league of legends ) I maintain 53% winrate on character named Xin Zhao.When next season rolled in, I played Xin Zhao only. From gold to Dia I went, My winrate off 85%, while being in Dia 1.

Question for you. Am I 85% winrate Xin Zhao from Dia 1? Or did I farm the wins while being low rank, and started tanking the higher I went?Same thing happened to you my man,you reached a wall.

[reikken.4961]

steal and shatters and etc don't need cast times. That won't help anything.

But what might actually help is if clones were unshatterable until they've existed for at least a full second. That prevents zero tell instant damage without hurting much else very much.

[shadowpass.4236]

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@"shadowpass.4236" said:I literally solo qued up 200 rating in a week to top 60 with 6x my normal ping on a build I just started playing. Idk what you guys are on about but considering most of the people at those ranges have somewhat normal ping and duo qued on meta builds, that's a pretty good indicator on how easy it is to climb on mantra mes.

Also, I'm pretty sure Shorts prefers to play power mantra mes and a significant amount of games he's played (including ones with me on NA) consisted of it.

I had a loss streak right before season ended where a lot of players end up sitting on their rating after playing the min games required. As a result, the quality of my teammates completely tanked off the face of the planet. I still have the footage of my matches where most of them had DCs/AFKs very early on in the match (sub 200 points, even though I was still farming the enemy teams). Matches like those are unwinnable but it doesn't change the fact that I still ended up close to 1700 at the peak in only about a week of quing.

Lastly, if I remember correctly, I had a 60% winrate SOLO QUE on this "trash build" on EU servers where apparently everyone is "better."

I will give you a cool anecdoteIn Dia 1 ( my rank in league of legends ) I maintain 53% winrate on character named Xin Zhao.When next season rolled in, I played Xin Zhao only. From gold to Dia I went, My winrate off 85%, while being in Dia 1.

Question for you. Am I 85% winrate Xin Zhao from Dia 1? Or did I farm the wins while being low rank, and started tanking the higher I went?Same thing happened to you my man,you reached a wall.

The wall was the fact that I couldn't que more because I had school.

My winrate on ranger is like 65% (since release) and it's been going up relatively consistently, albeit by very small amounts.

When I got r2 during a solo que only season, my winrate was pretty high as well. The earlier seasons also had more top tier players playing so it was harder to climb.

When I'm playing with a good duo (or even solo que tryharding) my winrate is upwards of 70-80% or more on NA where I get good ping.

[storm.3120]

@ButterPeanut.9746 said:

@Odik.4587 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@Odik.4587 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

https://clips.twitch.tv/HonorableWanderingPigeonJKanStyle

Copy paste, forum re-direct isnt working.So, got caught without any cd by zerk build, did you expect it to hit you for 100 damage?

Considering I died within the stun, from stealth. Cd's wouldn't have mattered much, would they?

Playing that back in slowmotion, from the moment I took the first damage till I was dead. It took .64 seconds. Counting in a button-press to stunbreak and then to dodge, WITH ping. I don't know dude.

I'm not saying it's overpowered, I'm saying it's stupid.

Edit; and Mind Wrack should NOT crit for 6k with 1 clone. It's an instant cast ability with no tell.Zerk build full damage, might, vulnerability, why not ? Also MW does less damage per clone being shattered :)This burst playstyle was the only thing that power mesmer could do since release and sustained damage/sustain was pretty meh for light armored class.If you want to change -> Nerf MoP, PU. Removing the damage without any compensation/rework would be dumb

Not necessarily remove the damage, but spread it out. I personally wouldn't mind some very small cast times on F1-F3 and possibly MoP activation so you can't instantaneously do all of the burst.This would also fix one of the more annoying things to happen when fighting mesmer:

• Outplay mesmer and land a melee CC burst when they have no stunbreaks or dodges left?
• Mesmer lives because F3 cast while stunned :(FC gets a cast time before it could kick in? PF/all toolbelts would get a cast time too?Steal / Revenant legend swap / Necro shroud(desert shroud too) / Ranger pet swap / Element swap on the Ele would get a cast time too?While you are at it, make all phantasms/clones indestructable as other sources of profession mechanics are not killable, ty. Could write a meme examples why it need a cast time and why its not fair, just ask :wink:

[Cyninja.2954]

@shadowpass.4236 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@shadowpass.4236 said:I literally solo qued up 200 rating in a week to top 60 with 6x my normal ping on a build I just started playing. Idk what you guys are on about but considering most of the people at those ranges have somewhat normal ping and duo qued on meta builds, that's a pretty good indicator on how easy it is to climb on mantra mes.

Also, I'm pretty sure Shorts prefers to play power mantra mes and a significant amount of games he's played (including ones with me on NA) consisted of it.

I had a loss streak right before season ended where a lot of players end up sitting on their rating after playing the min games required. As a result, the quality of my teammates completely tanked off the face of the planet. I still have the footage of my matches where most of them had DCs/AFKs very early on in the match (sub 200 points, even though I was still farming the enemy teams). Matches like those are unwinnable but it doesn't change the fact that I still ended up close to 1700 at the peak in only about a week of quing.

Lastly, if I remember correctly, I had a 60% winrate SOLO QUE on this "trash build" on EU servers where apparently everyone is "better."

I will give you a cool anecdoteIn Dia 1 ( my rank in league of legends ) I maintain 53% winrate on character named Xin Zhao.When next season rolled in, I played Xin Zhao only. From gold to Dia I went, My winrate off 85%, while being in Dia 1.

Question for you. Am I 85% winrate Xin Zhao from Dia 1? Or did I farm the wins while being low rank, and started tanking the higher I went?Same thing happened to you my man,you reached a wall.

The wall was the fact that I couldn't que more because I had school.

My winrate on ranger is like 65% (since release) and it's been going up relatively consistently, albeit by very small amounts.

When I got r2 during a solo que only season, my winrate was pretty high as well. The earlier seasons also had more top tier players playing so it was harder to climb.

When I'm playing with a good duo (or even solo que tryharding) my winrate is upwards of 70-80% or more on NA where I get good ping.

Which has nothing to do with the fact that you ended on a win rate which was pushed by climbing through the low ranks on power mesmer. Which is exactly what Leonidrex.5649 was referring to and explaining how it happens with his LoL example.

[shadowpass.4236]

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@shadowpass.4236 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@shadowpass.4236 said:I literally solo qued up 200 rating in a week to top 60 with 6x my normal ping on a build I just started playing. Idk what you guys are on about but considering most of the people at those ranges have somewhat normal ping and duo qued on meta builds, that's a pretty good indicator on how easy it is to climb on mantra mes.

Also, I'm pretty sure Shorts prefers to play power mantra mes and a significant amount of games he's played (including ones with me on NA) consisted of it.

I had a loss streak right before season ended where a lot of players end up sitting on their rating after playing the min games required. As a result, the quality of my teammates completely tanked off the face of the planet. I still have the footage of my matches where most of them had DCs/AFKs very early on in the match (sub 200 points, even though I was still farming the enemy teams). Matches like those are unwinnable but it doesn't change the fact that I still ended up close to 1700 at the peak in only about a week of quing.

Lastly, if I remember correctly, I had a 60% winrate SOLO QUE on this "trash build" on EU servers where apparently everyone is "better."

I will give you a cool anecdoteIn Dia 1 ( my rank in league of legends ) I maintain 53% winrate on character named Xin Zhao.When next season rolled in, I played Xin Zhao only. From gold to Dia I went, My winrate off 85%, while being in Dia 1.

Question for you. Am I 85% winrate Xin Zhao from Dia 1? Or did I farm the wins while being low rank, and started tanking the higher I went?Same thing happened to you my man,you reached a wall.

The wall was the fact that I couldn't que more because I had school.

My winrate on ranger is like 65% (since release) and it's been going up relatively consistently, albeit by very small amounts.

When I got r2 during a solo que only season, my winrate was pretty high as well. The earlier seasons also had more top tier players playing so it was harder to climb.

When I'm playing with a good duo (or even solo que tryharding) my winrate is upwards of 70-80% or more on NA where I get good ping.

Which has nothing to do with the fact that you ended on a win rate which was pushed by climbing through the low ranks on power mesmer. Which is exactly what Leonidrex.5649 was referring to and explaining how it happens with his LoL example.

My win rate was pushed by climbing low ranks?That's not true at all.

Look at the records I posted following each session. They're pretty consistent throughout every tier.

According to him, if I win more at lower ranks and mellow out as I climb, I should have a very high win ratio at lower tiers and closer to 50% at higher tiers. This isn't the case.

Keep in mind, I started at 1500 which is plat 1 and climbed to just under 1700 in a week. According to people on the forums, EU population is "much more skilled" so even the plat 1 matches should've had some decent players. However, I performed about the same as I usually do on every class that's not ranger.

[RedShark.9548]

@"TAIKA.1903" said:I did play as a mesmer for a long time, at least, I wanna show you some video that core power mesmers are not as OP and easy as you think.All these videos are from White Short's twitch, this player is top10~25 in NA now.

=============================================================1.In this video, you would see White Short's only 1 shot ppl from stealth successfully 4 times.A.14:30 RANGER (100%>0%)B. 10:10 Warrior (90%>0%)C. 8:40 Warrior (100%>0%)D. 2:50 Warrior (90%>0%)Because there was no thief on enemy's team, so he could try 1 shot easily again and again.https://www.twitch.tv/videos/516705405?t=02h28m30s

==============================================================

2. White Short faced TEAM USA in AT. In this match, you can notice he only got a chance 1 shot rev. After that, he couldn't do anything.

He couldn't join teamfight, because he would die so fast.

He couldn't decap easily because the thief focused on him.https://www.twitch.tv/videos/515313010?t=01h30m35s

==============================================================3.This video shows he only got a chance 1 shot a thief. (at 5:50)Because there were two thieves in enemy's team, and all enemies knew they have to take care the core power mesmers (There were two core power mesmers.)https://www.twitch.tv/videos/518098743?t=00h25m43s

==============================================================

To those who still think core power mesmer is a really OP class, just try it.

Do you think it is a easy class that can help you get into top 100 in EU like shadowpass? OH, sorry, shadowpass did not get top 100 tittle with this build.

White Short usually plays as a condi mirage in ranked, not core power mesmer. Because condi mirages could work in much more situations.

Please take some defence-skill, and there is no chance that core power mesmer 1 shot you in a second.

Oof.Its not about how far you can climb with it, its about the fact that its not fun to play against cheese like this, the fact that hes able to oneshot ppl out of stealth is the problem, no matter how good it is.

Its a design flaw that ruins the fun of everybody who gets oneshotted, and infact also the fun of your team, if you are otherwise useless, if you are unable to oneshot someone.

You didnt prove anything with your videos, only that its a memebuild that deserves to be reworked to be actually a viable and FUN (for all sides) build

[storm.3120]

@RedShark.9548 said:You didnt prove anything with your videos, only that its a memebuild that deserves to be reworkedSo, thief is getting deleted entirely too? Any spec (drd/core/especially DE) can oneslap you easly out of nowhere. @Burnfall.9573 was right all along! DELETE THIEF !to be reworked to be actually a viable and FUN (for all sides) buildIn the same manner they did to chrono?I cant believe that anyone is having fun fighting any pof spec (excluding renegade ).

[storm.3120]

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:But yes, Mantra of Pain should get an animation and

PU should get removed.

I bet you took it from my first post :blush:Absolutely not. The idea that the mesmer stealth elite, which already has lower uptime than Toss Elixir S, should go back down to having Lower Uptime, Lower Duration, and 3x the cooldown is stupid.Increase toss elixir S cd to 120s like moa elixir, it has 2 traits to reduce it cooldown,they would be fine with it.PU/MoP are the main culripts in this build, extremely long stealth is just dumb and shouldnt existed in the first place.

[mortrialus.3062]

@Odik.4587 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:But yes, Mantra of Pain should get an animation and

PU should get removed.

I bet you took it from my first post :blush:Absolutely not. The idea that the mesmer stealth elite, which already has lower uptime than Toss Elixir S, should go back down to having Lower Uptime, Lower Duration, and 3x the cooldown is stupid.Increase toss elixir S cd to 120s like moa elixir, it has 2 traits to reduce it cooldown,they would be fine with it.PU/MoP are the main culripts in this build, extremely long stealth is just dumb and shouldnt existed in the first place.

Making yourself and your allies invisible is one of the main defining things about illusionists. Mesmer should be defined more by its game changing utility than one shotting people with burst combos that when performed correctly are literally physically impossible to react to.

Also Engineer mains and the developers will fight you tooth and nail over any changes to toss elixir s, even if it deserves nerfs. "They would be fine with a 120 cd" is hilarious they would cry bloody murder.

[storm.3120]

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@Odik.4587 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:But yes, Mantra of Pain should get an animation and

PU should get removed.

I bet you took it from my first post :blush:Absolutely not. The idea that the mesmer stealth elite, which already has lower uptime than Toss Elixir S, should go back down to having Lower Uptime, Lower Duration, and 3x the cooldown is stupid.Increase toss elixir S cd to 120s like moa elixir, it has 2 traits to reduce it cooldown,they would be fine with it.PU/MoP are the main culripts in this build, extremely long stealth is just dumb and shouldnt existed in the first place.

Making yourself and your allies invisible is one of the main defining things about illusionists. Mesmer should be defined more by its game changing utility than one shotting people with burst combos that when performed correctly are literally physically impossible to react to.Removal of PU wouldnt affect your ability to stealth allies, only duration of exact that elite which is too excessive with it. Utility... portal is gone, chrono support never lived, IoL...anyone ever used it ?So, I said : nerf/delete MoP and PU. Minus instacast with lots of damage and might prestack = no more oneshots.Also Engineer mains and the developers will fight you tooth and nail over any changes to toss elixir s, even if it deserves nerfs. "They would be fine with a 120 cd" is hilarious they would cry bloody murder.Breaking news!

[Fat Disgrace.4275]

@Odik.4587 said:

@RedShark.9548 said:You didnt prove anything with your videos, only that its a memebuild that deserves to be reworkedSo, thief is getting deleted entirely too? Any spec (drd/core/especially DE) can oneslap you easly out of nowhere. @Burnfall.9573 was right all along! DELETE THIEF !to be reworked to be actually a viable and FUN (for all sides) buildIn the same manner they did to chrono?I cant believe that anyone is having fun fighting any pof spec (excluding renegade ).

I blame assassins signet for that though, de alone wont 1 shot just with 1 malice alone

[mortrialus.3062]

@Odik.4587 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@Odik.4587 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:But yes, Mantra of Pain should get an animation and

PU should get removed.

I bet you took it from my first post :blush:Absolutely not. The idea that the mesmer stealth elite, which already has lower uptime than Toss Elixir S, should go back down to having Lower Uptime, Lower Duration, and 3x the cooldown is stupid.Increase toss elixir S cd to 120s like moa elixir, it has 2 traits to reduce it cooldown,they would be fine with it.PU/MoP are the main culripts in this build, extremely long stealth is just dumb and shouldnt existed in the first place.

Making yourself and your allies invisible is one of the main defining things about illusionists. Mesmer should be defined more by its game changing utility than one shotting people with burst combos that when performed correctly are literally physically impossible to react to.Removal of PU wouldnt affect your ability to stealth allies, only duration of exact that elite which is too excessive with it. Utility... portal is gone, chrono support never lived, IoL...anyone ever used it ?So, I said : nerf/delete MoP and PU. Minus instacast with lots of damage and might prestack = no more oneshots.Also Engineer mains and the developers will fight you tooth and nail over any changes to toss elixir s, even if it deserves nerfs. "They would be fine with a 120 cd" is hilarious they would cry bloody murder.Well, chrono got deleted(I srsly rofl'd when they deleted lost time and split adept trait into adept+grandmaster) but scrapper steadily got buffed and buffed, clearly not blatant favoritism /s

And the portal nerf was one of the worst balance changes in SPvP throughout path of fire and here you are demanding a sequel. People had started mellowing out about mesmers again until they were able drop portal and run 3x combat utilities.

Without mantra of pain you'll still one shot most builds. It just one shots less builds and less reliably than before.

And now that you can double trait Mass Invisiblity to be as good as Sneak Gyro you want to take it away. I don't get it.

[storm.3120]

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@Odik.4587 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@Odik.4587 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:But yes, Mantra of Pain should get an animation and

PU should get removed.

I bet you took it from my first post :blush:Absolutely not. The idea that the mesmer stealth elite, which already has lower uptime than Toss Elixir S, should go back down to having Lower Uptime, Lower Duration, and 3x the cooldown is stupid.Increase toss elixir S cd to 120s like moa elixir, it has 2 traits to reduce it cooldown,they would be fine with it.PU/MoP are the main culripts in this build, extremely long stealth is just dumb and shouldnt existed in the first place.

Making yourself and your allies invisible is one of the main defining things about illusionists. Mesmer should be defined more by its game changing utility than one shotting people with burst combos that when performed correctly are literally physically impossible to react to.Removal of PU wouldnt affect your ability to stealth allies, only duration of exact that elite which is too excessive with it. Utility... portal is gone, chrono support never lived, IoL...anyone ever used it ?So, I said : nerf/delete MoP and PU. Minus instacast with lots of damage and might prestack = no more oneshots.Also Engineer mains and the developers will fight you tooth and nail over any changes to toss elixir s, even if it deserves nerfs. "They would be fine with a 120 cd" is hilarious they would cry bloody murder.Well, chrono got deleted(I srsly rofl'd when they deleted lost time and split adept trait into adept+grandmaster) but scrapper steadily got buffed and buffed, clearly not blatant favoritism /s

And the portal nerf was one of the worst balance changes in SPvP throughout path of fire and here you are demanding a sequel. People had started mellowing out about mesmers again until they were able drop portal and run 3x combat utilities.

Without mantra of pain you'll still one shot most builds. It just one shots less builds and less reliably than before.

And now that you can double trait Mass Invisiblity to be as good as Sneak Gyro you want to take it away. I don't get it.How come you underestimate MoP that much? 12 mights and 2 insta spikes are nothing to you?Not just MI, all abilities with a long stealth :)

[bravan.3876]

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@Odik.4587 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@Odik.4587 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:But yes, Mantra of Pain should get an animation and

PU should get removed.

I bet you took it from my first post :blush:Absolutely not. The idea that the mesmer stealth elite, which already has lower uptime than Toss Elixir S, should go back down to having Lower Uptime, Lower Duration, and 3x the cooldown is stupid.Increase toss elixir S cd to 120s like moa elixir, it has 2 traits to reduce it cooldown,they would be fine with it.PU/MoP are the main culripts in this build, extremely long stealth is just dumb and shouldnt existed in the first place.

Making yourself and your allies invisible is one of the main defining things about illusionists. Mesmer should be defined more by its game changing utility than one shotting people with burst combos that when performed correctly are literally physically impossible to react to.Removal of PU wouldnt affect your ability to stealth allies, only duration of exact that elite which is too excessive with it. Utility... portal is gone, chrono support never lived, IoL...anyone ever used it ?So, I said : nerf/delete MoP and PU. Minus instacast with lots of damage and might prestack = no more oneshots.Also Engineer mains and the developers will fight you tooth and nail over any changes to toss elixir s, even if it deserves nerfs. "They would be fine with a 120 cd" is hilarious they would cry bloody murder.Well, chrono got deleted(I srsly rofl'd when they deleted lost time and split adept trait into adept+grandmaster) but scrapper steadily got buffed and buffed, clearly not blatant favoritism /s

And the portal nerf was one of the worst balance changes in SPvP throughout path of fire and here you are demanding a sequel. People had started mellowing out about mesmers again until they were able drop portal and run 3x combat utilities.

Without mantra of pain you'll still one shot most builds. It just one shots less builds and less reliably than before.

And now that you can double trait Mass Invisiblity to be as good as Sneak Gyro you want to take it away. I don't get it.

MoP is not needed to oneshot certain glassy builds true but it is still an unhealthy and no skill ability should not exist. Reworking it into a useful but non dmging boonremove mantra still the best idea in my opinion. PU should get the stealth duration removed and for that longer boonduration from only defensive boons. MI should be audibly also when casted during stealth (3 simple fixes). The ability to oneshot, even out of shorter stealth is not the problem, that is predictable and counterable and only noobs would have problems with that. The problems with that Core PU build are a combination of still being able to oneshot by

1. taking a defensive traitline (oneshots should only be possible when the build is full glass in all aspects), the mentioned problem of too low opportunity costs in dmg from defensive traitlines in general (that is also why we have all the facetank builds still can do insane dmg)
2. by having insane long stealth uptime, makes stacking stealth completely out of earshot and visible range possible to lower the counterplay to a minimum by making the otherwise easy predictable gs burst (even when done out of shorter stealth with no tell when done correct) way less predictable +
3. then still providing enough of restealth and disengage tools after a (failed) burst to survive because the Mesmer needs to invest way less cds for that out of nowhere oneshot then without PU and Superspeed.
4. then also has good boonsustain and even condiremove + lower cd on blink for even more mobility and lower cd on heal and high reflect uptime in addition

I really don't get why this is so hard to understand and why there even is such a big discussion over it. PU and MoP are both OBVIOUSLY unhealthy and low skill mechanics carrying mechanically weak Mesmers on an already very unreactive/ in general lower skill ceiling oneshot playstyle. But compared to other pure offensive oneshot builds on Mesmer this non reactive and in tendency lower skill ceiling oneshot playstyle also has way less counter/ is way less predictable and also has good survivability and mobility in addtition also removes the difficulty in surviving/ defense those glassy oneshotbuilds normally have. Playing oneshot is one thing, i don't mind that at all, even when having some sources of stealth, also when oneshotbuilds in general have a lower skillceiling and less reactive playstyle, but you can easy counter that and predict them and outplay them. But having such a non reactive and in tendencies lower skill ceiling playstyle carried by 2 other unhealthy mechanics like absurd stealth uptime to make the oneshot way less predictable/counterable and also eleminates the weaknesses on the defensives side and a max range random spammable instant dmg tool that even stacks might/vulnerability makes oneshotting and even follow up dmging way easier without any counterplay is just ridiculous. And that is OBVIOUS.