Fire Weaver..

[TorQ.7041]

While there's not many of them. When you do see them. They almost always have insane sustain. Only difference is now if you miss dodging their burn. They can do 30k burn in 2 seconds with fire signet. Seriously can we split that 30k burn over 8 seconds?

What this means is that you can't kill him but he can kill you. I get that eles haven't been so powerful in pvp. But it's seriously over tuned.

[Stallic.2397]

Fire Signet?

[reikken.4961]

Do you mean the glyph?It's 5 stacks of burn. Even at 15 might and with Weave Self's condi damage buff, that's 4700 damage over 2 seconds.

[Alatar.7364]

There's not many of them?

[Psycoprophet.8107]

I said this months ago and got alot of backlash. It's one of many ridiculous op specs/builds that people seem to be blind to cuz their too worried about mesmer and thief meme builds to see the others.

[TorQ.7041]

@reikken.4961 said:Do you mean the glyph?It's 5 stacks of burn. Even at 15 might and with Weave Self's condi damage buff, that's 4700 damage over 2 seconds.

Not what my death screen says. Says 32k burn. And I basically was 1 shot. Was knocked down. And died before I could get back up. So no it's not 4700 dmg. It was used in one of the ATs a few months ago. I think you are not looking at the right build.

[reikken.4961]

@TorQ.7041 said:

@reikken.4961 said:Do you mean the glyph?It's 5 stacks of burn. Even at 15 might and with Weave Self's condi damage buff, that's 4700 damage over 2 seconds.

Not what my death screen says. Says 32k burn. And I basically was 1 shot.death recap includes damage taken in downed state

[TorQ.7041]

@reikken.4961 said:

@TorQ.7041 said:

@reikken.4961 said:Do you mean the glyph?It's 5 stacks of burn. Even at 15 might and with Weave Self's condi damage buff, that's 4700 damage over 2 seconds.

Not what my death screen says. Says 32k burn. And I basically was 1 shot.death recap includes damage taken in downed state

Besides the point... I was one shot in 2 seconds to a build that can bunker 2 people.

[TorQ.7041]

@reikken.4961 said:

@TorQ.7041 said:

@reikken.4961 said:Do you mean the glyph?It's 5 stacks of burn. Even at 15 might and with Weave Self's condi damage buff, that's 4700 damage over 2 seconds.

Not what my death screen says. Says 32k burn. And I basically was 1 shot.death recap includes damage taken in downed state

While I basically just switch class to an anti condo class/build. It really deletes a whole pool of other specs like mesmers, sb warriors and classes with little cleanse. The whole concept is over tuned.

[reikken.4961]

@TorQ.7041 said:Besides the point... I was one shot in 2 seconds to a build that can bunker 2 people.

shrug. that's par for the course. being able to kill someone who's CC'd for 2 seconds is extremely common. Spellbreaker does it too, for example. Is it too much damage? Maybe. But most classes can do it.

[TorQ.7041]

@reikken.4961 said:

@TorQ.7041 said:Besides the point... I was one shot in 2 seconds to a build that can bunker 2 people.

shrug. that's par for the course. being able to kill someone who's CC'd for 2 seconds is extremely common. Spellbreaker does it too, for example. Is it too much damage? Maybe. But most classes can do it.

No. But a spell breaker has to land bulls charge one time to kill you if it misses it's on a big cool down. Even if you stun break a Weaver can burn you while being able to evade block and project neg.

Sp also has far limited sustain unlike Weaver. With Weaver you can reapply burn over and over. With evade, invun, block, projectile neg.

The only way to kill a Weaver is to have burst dmg but that in it self is flawed since once a Weaver dodged the burst. The Weaver can then stick on the target and it's sustain burn will kill it.

Anyway you are obv a Weaver main. So there's that.

[reikken.4961]

@TorQ.7041 said:The Weaver can then stick on the target and it's sustain burn will kill it.

This looks like your problemweaver is the easiest class in the game to kite. weaver has only one gap closer, and it's locked to air (which has low damage on condi build). As long as you cleanse glyph burst (25s cooldown) (or evade it. evaded hits still consume the charges) and kite properly, it's a manageable fight.

[TorQ.7041]

@reikken.4961 said:

@TorQ.7041 said:The Weaver can then stick on the target and it's sustain burn will kill it.

This looks like your problemweaver is the easiest class in the game to kite. weaver has only one gap closer, and it's locked to air (which has low damage on condi build). As long as you cleanse glyph burst (25s cooldown) and kite properly, it's a manageable fight.

Except to kill it. You have to run some sort of burst build. Sp, mesmer,Holo will have a hard time to kill it before burn kills it. It's basically why it's meta right now.

Your answer was basically a non answer. Just kite better, just play better. This doesn't change the fact that a bunker build has a massive burst that can kill you. Sp can't kill you as a bunker in 1 shot and cannot reapply dmg consistently, mesmer can't kill you one shot and had a sustain, prot Holo, condi firebrand.

Non of the 1v1 classes can 1 shot you while being able to bunker 2v1. Don't act like you don't have twist of faith, obsidian flesh etc etc to evade spam, block invur etc.

It's basically uncontested as a 1v1 spec.

[Paradoxoglanis.1904]

@reikken.4961 said:

@TorQ.7041 said:The Weaver can then stick on the target and it's sustain burn will kill it.

This looks like your problemweaver is the easiest class in the game to kite. weaver has only one gap closer, and it's locked to air (which has low damage on condi build). As long as you cleanse glyph burst (25s cooldown) (or evade it. evaded hits still consume the charges) and kite properly, it's a manageable fight.

This 100%. People who die easily to fireweavers are likely the people who die easily to reaper shroud. Dont stand next to them and they cant do any damage.

[TorQ.7041]

@Paradoxoglanis.1904 said:

@reikken.4961 said:

@TorQ.7041 said:The Weaver can then stick on the target and it's sustain burn will kill it.

This looks like your problemweaver is the easiest class in the game to kite. weaver has only one gap closer, and it's locked to air (which has low damage on condi build). As long as you cleanse glyph burst (25s cooldown) (or evade it. evaded hits still consume the charges) and kite properly, it's a manageable fight.

This 100%. People who die easily to fireweavers are likely the people who die easily to reaper shroud. Dont stand next to them and they cant do any damage.

Na not really. Zero problems vs reaper on any class. The problem with Weaver is that it can stand on node and you can't kill it.

[Stallic.2397]

There's no way a fire Weaver one shot u. It's damage is condi and even though burn melts quickly, you still have 1-3 sec to cleanse it. The best a fire Weaver can do is hammer you down with condis.

Sword is a defensive weapon. It's supposed to be hard to kill. Fire Weaver specs in healing power. It's supposed to have good sustain. It doesn't have more sustain than holo or spellbreaker. They all can stun and kill you in seconds. The best tactic is to stun break and evade.

Fire Weaver is gonna get nerfed. I'm just hoping Anet nerfs it's damage and not survivability. It's the only defensive weapon ele has.

[Arheundel.6451]

@TorQ.7041 said:

@Paradoxoglanis.1904 said:

@reikken.4961 said:

@TorQ.7041 said:The Weaver can then stick on the target and it's sustain burn will kill it.

This looks like your problemweaver is the easiest class in the game to kite. weaver has only one gap closer, and it's locked to air (which has low damage on condi build). As long as you cleanse glyph burst (25s cooldown) (or evade it. evaded hits still consume the charges) and kite properly, it's a manageable fight.

This 100%. People who die easily to fireweavers are likely the people who die easily to reaper shroud. Dont stand next to them and they cant do any damage.

Na not really. Zero problems vs reaper on any class. The problem with Weaver is that it can stand on node and you can't kill it.

How laughable....

[TorQ.7041]

@Stallic.2397 said:There's no way a fire Weaver one shot u. It's damage is condi and even though burn melts quickly, you still have 1-3 sec to cleanse it. The best a fire Weaver can do is hammer you down with condis.

Sword is a defensive weapon. It's supposed to be hard to kill. Fire Weaver specs in healing power. It's supposed to have good sustain. It doesn't have more sustain than holo or spellbreaker. They all can stun and kill you in seconds. The best tactic is to stun break and evade.

Fire Weaver is gonna get nerfed. I'm just hoping Anet nerfs it's damage and not survivability. It's the only defensive weapon ele has.

Pretty sure it did. Within 2 seconds. It's not the exact meta build.

Yeah i could have cleansed. But didn't expect to die within 2 seconds. Was going to wait till it stacks before I cleanse cos it would just reapply.

Either way. I m ok with 2 second kill burst if it didn't have sustain. And I am ok with sustain if it didn't have that massive burst.

It definitely has more sustain than Holo and spell breaker. This build completely stomps sb.

[Grimjack.8130]

You've said enough, you can stop embarrassing yourself now.First you said 30k burns in 2 seconds, then you said "Yeah I could have cleansed, but I didn't expect to die, was going to wait til it stacks before I cleanse"There are alot of issues with this, firstly if you could've cleansed and didn't, no matter what, thats a misplay if it ended up in your death, regardless of the number of conditions on you.Second off, with basic game knowledge you know that Burning has a higher base condition damage value than Bleeding or Torment does, so less stacks will equal more damage, giving you less time to make that decision to cleanse or not.Thirdly, you can't wait to cleanse burns that are ticking for 15k a tick (if they were, which they were not mind you.) and they would not "reapply" as much or as fast. The only thing left over after a Weaver puts that many burns on someone, in the IDEAL scenario, is flame wall and auto attack damage/conditions.

The death recap will show you irrelevant numbers, people have died with numbers that show you've taken 100k damage, does that mean you took 100k damage right as you died? No.

You said Bull's Charge has a long CD to warrant the long CC? So does Gale and Weave Self, infact both are longer recharge than Bull's Charge is.In order to take as much damage as you did, in 2 seconds, is close to impossible, and means you ate multiple ticks of double fire Primordial Stance, all of Glyph(or signet of fire which is 100x easier to mitigate and dodge mind you), and Pyro Vortex. So hats off to you for eating that much damage and still somehow thinking it's not your fault that you died.

Also Fire Weaver's potential to 1v2 (good players) is very low. If you 1v2 bad players, thats a completely different arguement, and every sidenoder (yes EVERY) is capable of 1v2ing bad players.Even the best Fire Weaver will not kill anything, any class in 3 seconds.

[Abelisk.5148]

@reikken.4961 said:

@TorQ.7041 said:The Weaver can then stick on the target and it's sustain burn will kill it.

This looks like your problemweaver is the easiest class in the game to kite. weaver has only one gap closer, and it's locked to air (which has low damage on condi build). As long as you cleanse glyph burst (25s cooldown) (or evade it. evaded hits still consume the charges) and kite properly, it's a manageable fight.

Ah yes, kite vs a Fire Weaver when they hold the point and you're spamming ranged attacks on them for no reason.

RotatingIsNotMeta

[Zexanima.7851]

@"Grimjack.8130" said:You've said enough, you can stop embarrassing yourself now.First you said 30k burns in 2 seconds, then you said "Yeah I could have cleansed, but I didn't expect to die, was going to wait til it stacks before I cleanse"There are alot of issues with this, firstly if you could've cleansed and didn't, no matter what, thats a misplay if it ended up in your death, regardless of the number of conditions on you.Second off, with basic game knowledge you know that Burning has a higher base condition damage value than Bleeding or Torment does, so less stacks will equal more damage, giving you less time to make that decision to cleanse or not.Thirdly, you can't wait to cleanse burns that are ticking for 15k a tick (if they were, which they were not mind you.) and they would not "reapply" as much or as fast. The only thing left over after a Weaver puts that many burns on someone, in the IDEAL scenario, is flame wall and auto attack damage/conditions.

The death recap will show you irrelevant numbers, people have died with numbers that show you've taken 100k damage, does that mean you took 100k damage right as you died? No.

You said Bull's Charge has a long CD to warrant the long CC? So does Gale and Weave Self, infact both are longer recharge than Bull's Charge is.In order to take as much damage as you did, in 2 seconds, is close to impossible, and means you ate multiple ticks of double fire Primordial Stance, all of Glyph(or signet of fire which is 100x easier to mitigate and dodge mind you), and Pyro Vortex. So hats off to you for eating that much damage and still somehow thinking it's not your fault that you died.

Also Fire Weaver's potential to 1v2 (good players) is very low. If you 1v2 bad players, thats a completely different arguement, and every sidenoder (yes EVERY) is capable of 1v2ing bad players.Even the best Fire Weaver will not kill anything, any class in 3 seconds.

Idk man, I've gotten the jump on people and melted them in the 2-3 second range. That's against unaware generally poor players on something squishy but it is possible to melt some faces in a couple seconds on fire weaver and its happens fairly often for me. Just a l2p issue on their part but I just feel like you were over stating its near impossible to kill that fast but it's not if you catch them with their pants down.

[reikken.4961]

@"LolLookAtMyAP.8394" said:Ah yes, kite vs a Fire Weaver when they hold the point and you're spamming ranged attacks on them for no reason.kiting does not just mean ranged attacks. spellbreaker, herald, and holosmith are melee but all kite weavers. What I mean is you only stand in melee while you're bursting. Spellbreakers don't stand in melee and autoattack with greatsword when the big damage skills are on cooldown.

[Megametzler.5729]

@Zexanima.7851 said:

@"Grimjack.8130" said:You've said enough, you can stop embarrassing yourself now.First you said 30k burns in 2 seconds, then you said "Yeah I could have cleansed, but I didn't expect to die, was going to wait til it stacks before I cleanse"There are alot of issues with this, firstly if you could've cleansed and didn't, no matter what, thats a misplay if it ended up in your death, regardless of the number of conditions on you.Second off, with basic game knowledge you know that Burning has a higher base condition damage value than Bleeding or Torment does, so less stacks will equal more damage, giving you less time to make that decision to cleanse or not.Thirdly, you can't wait to cleanse burns that are ticking for 15k a tick (if they were, which they were not mind you.) and they would not "reapply" as much or as fast. The only thing left over after a Weaver puts that many burns on someone, in the IDEAL scenario, is flame wall and auto attack damage/conditions.

The death recap will show you irrelevant numbers, people have died with numbers that show you've taken 100k damage, does that mean you took 100k damage right as you died? No.

You said Bull's Charge has a long CD to warrant the long CC? So does Gale and Weave Self, infact both are longer recharge than Bull's Charge is.In order to take as much damage as you did, in 2 seconds, is close to impossible, and means you ate multiple ticks of double fire Primordial Stance, all of Glyph(or signet of fire which is 100x easier to mitigate and dodge mind you), and Pyro Vortex. So hats off to you for eating that much damage and still somehow thinking it's not your fault that you died.

Also Fire Weaver's potential to 1v2 (good players) is very low. If you 1v2 bad players, thats a completely different arguement, and every sidenoder (yes EVERY) is capable of 1v2ing bad players.Even the best Fire Weaver will not kill anything, any class in 3 seconds.

Idk man, I've gotten the jump on people and melted them in the 2-3 second range. That's against unaware generally poor players on something squishy but it

is

possible to melt some faces in a couple seconds on fire weaver and its happens fairly often for me. Just a l2p issue on their part but I just feel like you were over stating its near impossible to kill that fast but it's not if you catch them with their pants down.

It definitely is mainly a l2p issue. Yes, fire weaver can burst hard against players without CDs, being unaware or just really slow. But in 2s, many classes can do the same. Pyro vortex is the same like Thousand blades, Gust is as telegraphed (and not an evade) like Bull's charge (and has a longer CD, and no damage...).

The key is: disengage, when they have the Glyph. If you are low on condi cleanse, then also during fire attunement+ Primordial stance.

Attack when neither is up and they switch to fire. The only defense then is potentially earth, when they come from there (long CD though). If they come from air or water, they only have ToF, which has a very long CD and only lasts 1s, while they cannot change attunements to something defensive for full 4s.

Now I do agree fire weaver is a little problematic. Fire is a purely offensive traitline and gives too much sustain for that - not to power damage, mind you, but the cleanses are too much. It basically has the same personaly cleanses liek water weaver! In my view, giving Sunspot an ICD and/or reducing the cleanses from Transmute fire aura should do the trick. And change glyph to something less bursty, making the whole spec more stretched out DPS based. This way, the spec would be vulnerable to conditions and had a clear weakness next to poor mobility and low disengage/kite potential.

Once people figure out it's counters and the overall meta changes, things for fire weaver will change. For a long time, people had to stack condi cleanses against scourge, condi mirage and thief. Fire weaver couldn't do much back then. Since they got nerfed, fire weaver has become strong without major changes. It's just that many viable builds focus on close combat and few cleanses, that is why minor adjustments to fire weaver are probably justified.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

I find it humorous how people defending their class choose to only see the side of the discussion that supports them. Here we have two discussions 1 talking about fire weavers ability to kill a player in a few seconds with high condi ticks that are cleanseable however with weaver the condi is easily reapplied so ..2nd discussion is about how a good weaver takes 2+ players to down which were all not blind and have seen weavers high sustain.The issue is these two discussions should never apply to one build

[Don Vega Van Kain.9842]

@Alatar.7364 said:There's not many of them?

Many people have a complex with the elementalist, they believe that if they say that such build or such build is op or they're more and more fire weaver's in pvp, people will laugh at them and treat them as noob.

A complex that started just after the fall of tempest in pvp.

A fire weaver, have a good sustain and evads, very good damages and basiclly not much mobility.

Depending of what i play (and of course the lvl of my opponant) i can beat him or not. With many classes when i saw a fire weaver in a node i just walk away to +1 in the others.

Of course, with a +1, he died.

And Btw, every night, 7/10 of my matches, i have a fire weaver or two. ;)