Can the new story please stop ignoring HoT? — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Can the new story please stop ignoring HoT?

Yeah yeah, Jormag is whispering all the time.

But I expect from sylvari to react to it! They already KNOW how it is to have a foreign voice in their head. There should be something. From the NPCs AND especially from the commander. Or from Vigil soldiers who remember what happened there. Commenting that they now understand what happened to the sylvari.

But there is nothing. Nothing at all.

What a waste. Why ignoring previous content like it never happened? Throw us some bones, anet! Just a couple of lines. You never gave us closure with the Pale Tree, this is the least you could do!

Comments

  • @VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.3618 said:
    Yeah yeah, Jormag is whispering all the time.

    But I expect from sylvari to react to it! They already KNOW how it is to have a foreign voice in their head. There should be something. From the NPCs AND especially from the commander. Or from Vigil soldiers who remember what happened there. Commenting that they now understand what happened to the sylvari.

    But there is nothing. Nothing at all.

    What a waste. Why ignoring previous content like it never happened? Throw us some bones, anet! Just a couple of lines. You never gave us closure with the Pale Tree, this is the least you could do!

    Hahaha! HoT was a joke. Still is. Don't expect anything noteworthy to emerge from this current story arc. All of the reveals that might be insightful should have been made during HoT but, you know, the most compelling part of the story got "cut" for scoping purposes. What would the most compelling part of the story be? An Elder Dragon explaining to it's minions, or would-be minions, why it is a necessary evil. Mordg could've done that for us, bug instead Jormy is doing it. Why? Because the storyline is just irrelevant.

    You know how things are shaping up? Apparently Steve is the big-band. He's the "terrible things lurk just beyond the horizon" nonsense that Jormy refers to. What. A. Joke. It's just GW Nightfall all over again.

    R. I. P story and good riddance to garbage HoT.

  • If sylvari:
    : Reminds me of Mordremoth...but different.

    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/What's_Left_Behind

    It's not ignored. But this is just the first installment, so there's more focus on building up than revelations.

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    All these squares make a circle.
    All these squares make a circle.

  • Teratus.2859Teratus.2859 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 12, 2019

    Keep in mind the voices are very different too..

    Jormag whispers, plays on doubts and insecurity and doesn't come across as hostile.

    Mordremoth was total domination, loud and proud.. submit and serve me as is your true purpose etc..

    Mordremoth punished and tormented the Sylvari into submission..
    Jormag entices and seduces it's victims with promises and lies.. likewise Jormag's ability is used openly on all beings where as Mordremoth only could or was only interested in the Sylvari.

  • Tyson.5160Tyson.5160 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Kossage.9072 said:
    They've actually added callbacks to HoT here and there. Jora's Keep in particular is crazy in that it has lots of ambient dialogue and NPC placements that change between each story step (e.g. the reinforcements that start by cleaning up the bodies, place the bodies on pyres to burn them, go inside the keep to sit down and talk about their options, mourn their losses and finally decide to avenge the deaths of their officers and comrades while voicing out their worries about the potential treachery of the male norn around them; we can see the progression through each story step if we visit the keep between certain story mission objectives). Once you progress through the story, the dialogues gradually become unavailable as they're replaced by updated ones, so the only way to experience some of these dialogues again is to go through the story with another character. So it's easy to miss this stuff if one just rushes through the story or doesn't have the time to wait at the keep for an hour per story step and run from spot to spot in the keep to catch all the dialogue going on during the story steps.

    For example, in the story step "What's Left Behind":

    Braham Eirsson: You...you hear it too, don't you? That voice.
    Player (if sylvari): Reminds me of Mordremoth...but different.

    Ambient dialogue in Jora's Keep:

    Vigil Relief Crew (norn): Jora's Keep was home. A refuge for the lost... And now, I don't know where to go--
    Vigil Relief Crew (sylvari): Even after Mordremoth died, my own friends didn't trust me anymore...
    Vigil Relief Crew (sylvari): So I came here. Almorra... She saw something in me. She saw it in you too.

    Almorra's really something special, isn't she? Thanks to her burdened past (as a gladium who was forced to kill her own Branded comrades and who seemed to have contemplated suicide until Laranthir and other future Vigil warmasters-to-be talked her into directing her feelings towards making the world a better place), the general welcomes other shunned outcasts with open arms regardless of their perceived deeds and gives them a new life, family and purpose for the good of all as shown in the Vigil motto that Almorra coined: "Some must fight, so that all may be free." I hope Almorra's so far unnamed daughter (who apparently has an interesting past based on what little Almorra has chosen to reveal about the subject when we tried to pry her for information about her family following her Renegade son Ajax Anvilburn's demise)--as well as her granddaughter Ember Doomforge--have been inspired by Almorra's noble actions. I'd love to see the daughter appear and Ember to return to the story one day too alongside Almorra's good acquaintance Dougal Keane who happens to be Ember's good friend after their adventures together to retrieve the Claw of the Khan-Ur and cause the ceasefire talks of the Ebonhawke Treaty begin between humans and charr. :)

    As for the sylvari and Jormag connection, it's interesting that at least some sylvari seem to realize the voice speaking to them is in fact Jormag like this chilling ambient dialogue example from Ravensfrost Caverns shows:

    Vigil Relief Patrol (sylvari): What's happening to me?
    Vigil Relief Patrol (norn): You're okay. Just breathe.
    Vigil Relief Patrol (sylvari): I can't trust you. You'll betray me the first chance you get.
    Vigil Relief Patrol (asura): Don't listen to it! It's all in your head.
    Vigil Relief Patrol (sylvari): Jormag said you would say that.

    It'll be fun to find out if Jormag eventually mentions Mordremoth (whom it might admire to some extent with the way Ol' Mordy pulled off the Mind hijinks) and if we hear more sylvari commentary on it...or even commentary from other races now that the parallels between sylvari (HoT) and norn (The Icebrood Saga) threats have become apparent. :)

    You actually see the distrust with male Norn now in Jora’s keep, which mirrors the Sylvari during HoT, which I found interesting.

  • Loesh.4697Loesh.4697 Member ✭✭✭

    Hell, you see the distrust for Norn in general. The Charr soldier by the entrance to the Keep is refusing Jhavi's orders because she feels that the Spirit of Raven is little different from the Svanirs dragon.

  • Arden.7480Arden.7480 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Kossage.9072 said:
    They've actually added callbacks to HoT here and there. Jora's Keep in particular is crazy in that it has lots of ambient dialogue and NPC placements that change between each story step (e.g. the reinforcements that start by cleaning up the bodies, place the bodies on pyres to burn them, go inside the keep to sit down and talk about their options, mourn their losses and finally decide to avenge the deaths of their officers and comrades while voicing out their worries about the potential treachery of the male norn around them; we can see the progression through each story step if we visit the keep between certain story mission objectives). Once you progress through the story, the dialogues gradually become unavailable as they're replaced by updated ones, so the only way to experience some of these dialogues again is to go through the story with another character. So it's easy to miss this stuff if one just rushes through the story or doesn't have the time to wait at the keep for an hour per story step and run from spot to spot in the keep to catch all the dialogue going on during the story steps.

    For example, in the story step "What's Left Behind":

    Braham Eirsson: You...you hear it too, don't you? That voice.
    Player (if sylvari): Reminds me of Mordremoth...but different.

    Ambient dialogue in Jora's Keep:

    Vigil Relief Crew (norn): Jora's Keep was home. A refuge for the lost... And now, I don't know where to go--
    Vigil Relief Crew (sylvari): Even after Mordremoth died, my own friends didn't trust me anymore...
    Vigil Relief Crew (sylvari): So I came here. Almorra... She saw something in me. She saw it in you too.

    Almorra's really something special, isn't she? Thanks to her burdened past (as a gladium who was forced to kill her own Branded comrades and who seemed to have contemplated suicide until Laranthir and other future Vigil warmasters-to-be talked her into directing her feelings towards making the world a better place), the general welcomes other shunned outcasts with open arms regardless of their perceived deeds and gives them a new life, family and purpose for the good of all as shown in the Vigil motto that Almorra coined: "Some must fight, so that all may be free." I hope Almorra's so far unnamed daughter (who apparently has an interesting past based on what little Almorra has chosen to reveal about the subject when we tried to pry her for information about her family following her Renegade son Ajax Anvilburn's demise)--as well as her granddaughter Ember Doomforge--have been inspired by Almorra's noble actions. I'd love to see the daughter appear and Ember to return to the story one day too alongside Almorra's good acquaintance Dougal Keane who happens to be Ember's good friend after their adventures together to retrieve the Claw of the Khan-Ur and cause the ceasefire talks of the Ebonhawke Treaty begin between humans and charr. :)

    As for the sylvari and Jormag connection, it's interesting that at least some sylvari seem to realize the voice speaking to them is in fact Jormag like this chilling ambient dialogue example from Ravensfrost Caverns shows:

    Vigil Relief Patrol (sylvari): What's happening to me?
    Vigil Relief Patrol (norn): You're okay. Just breathe.
    Vigil Relief Patrol (sylvari): I can't trust you. You'll betray me the first chance you get.
    Vigil Relief Patrol (asura): Don't listen to it! It's all in your head.
    Vigil Relief Patrol (sylvari): Jormag said you would say that.

    It'll be fun to find out if Jormag eventually mentions Mordremoth (whom it might admire to some extent with the way Ol' Mordy pulled off the Mind hijinks) and if we hear more sylvari commentary on it...or even commentary from other races now that the parallels between sylvari (HoT) and norn (The Icebrood Saga) threats have become apparent. :)

    already mentioned Kralk and Aurene so Jormag is not a stranger to the dragons. Also the final episode/s promise we will face Jormag and the truth about the Elder Dragons, so I think it's going to really well build a scene for whatever things that lurk beyond The Saga, aka I think the final episode will be very different from what we have seen so far, it will lead to the confrontation, partially with Jormag, but there will be a huge revelation in the end.

    The oldest and strongest emotion of mankind is fear, and the oldest and strongest kind of fear is fear of the unknown.

    H. P. Lovecraft

  • Chadramar.8156Chadramar.8156 Member ✭✭✭

    I'm actually quite happy with the references to Mordremoth, at least as far as ambient dialogue is concerned. Yes, in an ideal world there's be a lot more references to a lot of events and a lot more things to talk to a lot of people about, but as it is I'm happy for every like of racial dialogue for the PC and for the occasional background developments (like the sylvari's efforts and empathy for the Risen in Siren's Landing).

    What I'd still really like is an apology, both from non-sylvari background characters to sylvari background characters, and from our non-sylvari "friends" towards a sylvari PC. I remember Rytlock and Marjory being real you-know-whats during HoT, and now both had a taste of what an Elder Dragon can do to THEM, so maybe a bit of introspection is in order on their part. The GW2 story has this longstanding, aggravating habit of making the PC everyone's Agony Aunt while almost never receiving any support, concern or apology in turn, which makes those "friendships" feel pretty laughable IMO. Rytlock's actions during the climax of this new episode are a prime example of that.

    Braham's recent development, on the other hand, is a very welcome breath of fresh air in that regard.

  • The difference between what is happening now and HoT is during HoT is was the actual dragon whispering to you and not the dragon's champion. It's funny that everyone keeps saying it's Jormag thats whispering. During the episode they straight out tell you it's not Jormag three times. First time its mentioned that Jormag cant whisper beyond it's lair. Second time they actually say it's Drakkar. Third time they said the whispering stopped as soon as Drakkar was slain in the story. Could have been more times but those were the times it stood out to me.

  • EdwinLi.1284EdwinLi.1284 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 31, 2020

    The HoT expansion story does get mentioned by some NPCs. There is a Sylvari in Jora's Keep that mentions how after events of HoT, all her former friends no longer trusted her but Soulkeeper took her in because she saw beyond her "Dragon minion origin" nature while also conforting a fellow Pact/Vigil about having doubts for who to trust or if he can trust himself since she been through it all and still today.

    It appears there are still plenty of people who don't trust Sylvari still even after the death of Mordremoth due to their origin being a Elder Dragon creation.

    Another Sylvari NPC, I found mentions how the Voice is just like Mordremoth voice in his head.
    the Sylvari NPCs have not forgotten but you just have to really look to find these NPCs.

  • Yasai.3549Yasai.3549 Member ✭✭✭

    @EdwinLi.1284 said:

    Another Sylvari NPC, I found mentions how the Voice is just like Mordremoth voice in his head.

    I expected them to field more Sylvari since they have "more experience" ignoring voices in their heads.

    Or just me making an excuse to see Canach again.

    I dunno.

    If I play a stupid build, I deserve to die.
    If I beat people on a stupid build, I deserve to get away with it.

  • EdwinLi.1284EdwinLi.1284 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 31, 2020

    @Yasai.3549 said:

    @EdwinLi.1284 said:

    Another Sylvari NPC, I found mentions how the Voice is just like Mordremoth voice in his head.

    I expected them to field more Sylvari since they have "more experience" ignoring voices in their heads.

    Or just me making an excuse to see Canach again.

    I dunno.

    Keep in mind right now we only have Soulkeeper's small battalion of the Pact. The amount of Soldiers we have now is still small and the rest of the Pact has yet to be deployed so we have few sylvari in the region currently due to this.

    Not to mention the rest of the world still thinks Jormag is still sleeping thus word has not yet each beyond to the other areas that Jormag is fully active again thus the Pact and other Anti-Elder Dragon teams have yet to be deployed.

  • ZDragon.3046ZDragon.3046 Member ✭✭✭✭

    In my personal opinion

    Technically speaking...
    Shouldnt the Sylvari be most resistant to it as they are immune to other dragons corruption which was shown in the core game story which is why they exclusively played a big hand in fighting against zhaitan?

    Or maybe they cant be turned into icebrood but still can be effected by the whispers. hmmmm

  • Aaron Ansari.1604Aaron Ansari.1604 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @ZDragon.3046 said:
    In my personal opinion

    Technically speaking...
    Shouldnt the Sylvari be most resistant to it as they are immune to other dragons corruption which was shown in the core game story which is why they exclusively played a big hand in fighting against zhaitan?

    Or maybe they cant be turned into icebrood but still can be effected by the whispers. hmmmm

    I mean, we watched Caithe be branded last season. If the sylvari's immunity truly came from being descended from Mordremoth's minions, it seems to have ended when Mord's power was redistributed to the other dragons.

    R.I.P., Old Man of Auld Red Wharf. Gone but never forgotten.

  • Vayne.8563Vayne.8563 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Stephen.6312 said:

    @VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.3618 said:
    Yeah yeah, Jormag is whispering all the time.

    But I expect from sylvari to react to it! They already KNOW how it is to have a foreign voice in their head. There should be something. From the NPCs AND especially from the commander. Or from Vigil soldiers who remember what happened there. Commenting that they now understand what happened to the sylvari.

    But there is nothing. Nothing at all.

    What a waste. Why ignoring previous content like it never happened? Throw us some bones, anet! Just a couple of lines. You never gave us closure with the Pale Tree, this is the least you could do!

    Hahaha! HoT was a joke. Still is. Don't expect anything noteworthy to emerge from this current story arc. All of the reveals that might be insightful should have been made during HoT but, you know, the most compelling part of the story got "cut" for scoping purposes. What would the most compelling part of the story be? An Elder Dragon explaining to it's minions, or would-be minions, why it is a necessary evil. Mordg could've done that for us, bug instead Jormy is doing it. Why? Because the storyline is just irrelevant.

    You know how things are shaping up? Apparently Steve is the big-band. He's the "terrible things lurk just beyond the horizon" nonsense that Jormy refers to. What. A. Joke. It's just GW Nightfall all over again.

    R. I. P story and good riddance to garbage HoT.

    HoT was fantastic and the fact that some people don't like it doesn't change the fact that it's many people's favorite part of the game. There were things I didn't like it the HoT story but it was more than balanced out by what I did like.

  • ZDragon.3046ZDragon.3046 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Aaron Ansari.1604 said:

    @ZDragon.3046 said:
    In my personal opinion

    Technically speaking...
    Shouldnt the Sylvari be most resistant to it as they are immune to other dragons corruption which was shown in the core game story which is why they exclusively played a big hand in fighting against zhaitan?

    Or maybe they cant be turned into icebrood but still can be effected by the whispers. hmmmm

    I mean, we watched Caithe be branded last season. If the sylvari's immunity truly came from being descended from Mordremoth's minions, it seems to have ended when Mord's power was redistributed to the other dragons.

    Well she was not branded and they specifically call that out as connection not corruption. It was her choice to allow it to happen in a sense of speaking.

    I guess if we play this angle what it means is that if Jormags whispers allow Sylvari to willing make the choice then they can be turned into icebrood in a similar manner it just cant be forced so to speak.

  • Aaron Ansari.1604Aaron Ansari.1604 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Hm. I suppose it's down to interpretation. The framing of Caithe's comment- "Taimi, it's all right. She asked, and I accepted. This isn't corruption—it's connection." leads me to believe that she's trying to calm Taimi down, not offering a reason for why this bypasses the sylvari 'protection', but nothing in the surrounding dialogue provides further clarification.

    R.I.P., Old Man of Auld Red Wharf. Gone but never forgotten.

  • KeoLegend.5132KeoLegend.5132 Member ✭✭✭

    i agree. Thats just as dumb as my Norn not knowing about the spirits

  • Konig Des Todes.2086Konig Des Todes.2086 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 1, 2020

    @ZDragon.3046 said:

    @Aaron Ansari.1604 said:

    @ZDragon.3046 said:
    In my personal opinion

    Technically speaking...
    Shouldnt the Sylvari be most resistant to it as they are immune to other dragons corruption which was shown in the core game story which is why they exclusively played a big hand in fighting against zhaitan?

    Or maybe they cant be turned into icebrood but still can be effected by the whispers. hmmmm

    I mean, we watched Caithe be branded last season. If the sylvari's immunity truly came from being descended from Mordremoth's minions, it seems to have ended when Mord's power was redistributed to the other dragons.

    Well she was not branded and they specifically call that out as connection not corruption. It was her choice to allow it to happen in a sense of speaking.

    I guess if we play this angle what it means is that if Jormags whispers allow Sylvari to willing make the choice then they can be turned into icebrood in a similar manner it just cant be forced so to speak.

    Caithe was branded. The devs outright call it out as such. As to connection versus corruption, the only difference seems to be the removal/allowance of free will, and it being forced versus desired.

    That said, the whispers aren't dragon corruption, which is where the immunity was - they could always be affected by Elder Dragons' magic, just not corrupted into minions.

    I also doubt the protection is gone, since S2 and HoT promotions outright state or highly suggest the protection came from the Pale Tree's connection and thus the Dream of Dreams, rather than their "ancestry", despite Taimi's statement in All or Nothing that feels seriously offputting given that we've seen several non-sylvari dragon minions be corrupted by other minions (Subject Alpha, Kudu's Monster, and Subject Beta).

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    All these squares make a circle.
    All these squares make a circle.

  • EdwinLi.1284EdwinLi.1284 Member ✭✭✭
    edited February 1, 2020

    Keep in mind the story already stated that the Mind attacks are not Dragon Corruption. It is a simple manipulation through psychology.
    Jormag method of corrupting people is to first mentally attack them by offering them Promises and/or making them doubt their allies then she will tempt them to go to her willingly so that they can then become Corrupted.

    Looking a bit deeper into the story Jormag mentions Jora and the reason why she could not be tempted into becoming Corrupted is because Jora was a person who never had any "needs" thus she never gave into temptation.

    The "Voice are not their own" topic is basically saying they can only hear Jormag's Voice in their own heads thus they cannot think clearly since she is basically mentally attacking them through their needs.

  • Brycar.2651Brycar.2651 Member ✭✭✭

    I would love to run into a group of pine tree 🌲 themed Sylvari who hid from Morty in the mountains 🏔. Maybe soundless or even the second pale tree who is pine themed.