Why doesn't engineer have weapon swap — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Why doesn't engineer have weapon swap

gannondorf.7628gannondorf.7628 Member ✭✭
edited December 14, 2019 in Engineer

Heya fellow engi players !

Engineer Always have been guted since release of the game. First they were designed to be heavy armor class but with no Reason go medium tier. They were designed with kits in mind and necessary to be competitive but devs gave them toolbelt.
First elite spec was a Failure and kits aren't really good anymore. But the problem is that we still need them coz we have too few skills. The devs are aware of the problem because they gave holosmith a F5 kit, so we could logically think that they know the fact that engineer need kits to be played… But yeah our kits are weak and we have better utility skills ( except turrets).

Recently they came with an "out of combat" weapon swap, maybe, if we are extremely positive, it's the start of a true weapon swap. Would it be so hard and unbalanced to give engineer weapon swap? It would at least give us more skills and make us less reliant on kits. Even if we have just rifle on core we have a bit more choice with the elite specs weapons.

Revenant have 20 weapons skills, elementalist 25, we have 15 (counting tool belt and no kit) if we had weapon swap we will just have 20... I still Don't understand why we still Don't have weapon swap since the start.

What do you guys think? Feel free to discuss about your opinions here. Maybe (we can Always hope) a dev is going to read this and consider it...

Comments

  • DanAlcedo.3281DanAlcedo.3281 Member ✭✭✭✭

    To be honest.

    In todays balance, having weapon swap would not change much.

    My medi scrapper in WvW would get access to either shield skills or the movement from rifle.

    So 2 or 1 good skills.

  • Hannelore.8153Hannelore.8153 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 14, 2019

    Scrapper a failure? They are frontline in WvW battles, a failure in high-end PvE content maybe..

    Hannah | Daisuki[SUKI] Founder, Ehmry Bay | Mains Mariyuuna/Tempest(PvE), Terakura/Spellbreaker & Kitty Koume/Reaper(WvW) | ♀♥♀

  • If you equip multiple kits, you can have 30 weapons skills, without a weapon swap, spanning a range from melee to 1500. Elementalists also don't get a weapon swap with their 20 weapon skills. Revenant's only get 10 weapon skills, with a weapon swap -- stance doesn't change weapon skills.

    You may not like kits, and turrets don't live up to their promise, but Elementalists and Engineers, with their special mechanics, are fine without an in-combat weapon swap. The out-of-combat swap is VERY handy, but probably delayed for years because they didn't want to put up with posts talking about it as a start.

  • Dawdler.8521Dawdler.8521 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 15, 2019

    If they ever do it I would probably have to stop playing engineer because it would totally mess up kit use and flipping out of it with weapon swap, if it starts swapping at the same time. Its bad enough that it happens out of combat.

    Out of combat weapon swapping isnt really the "start" of anything, its a sideeffect. They pretty much had to add this because they painted themselves into a corner with the new templates for the engineer and the elementalist - you could already achieve 90% of the function with the click of a button anyway.

    Dont look a gift Asura in the mouth.
    No seriously, dont. Shark teeth.

  • HnRkLnXqZ.1870HnRkLnXqZ.1870 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 15, 2019

    There is too less weapon variety to make this any kind of useful at the moment. I do not use the 2nd weapon slot, rather swap to another build/gear-set when I am OOC. IF we did not have mounts, I would carry a level 1 rifle in my second slot for the Jumpshot. But there are so many possibilities nowadays.

    On the other hand, Engineer and Elementalist (and technically also Revenant) were designed to be the only classes without the requirement of a weapon-swap feature. If they really decide to enable the feature on Elementalist for real, best wishes pulling of the meta-rotations with swapping through 8 attunements, chaining 40+ skills in a row, without getting hit.

    Engineer. There are a few situations, mostly in condition & support-builds this could prove useful. But given our large variety of weapons to choose from: pistol, shield, rifle or the elite-weapons.
    Pistol = condition only (either hand)
    Shield = utility/defense (offhand only)
    Rifle = power (?), clunky
    Sword = melee power, but only available on Holosmith
    Hammer = 2h power/defense, but only avilable on Scrapper

    Playing kits is a personal decision everyone has to make for himself. Same goes for using Gadgets, Turrets, Elixirs - some like them, others do not. Claiming the weapon-swap to be needed, just because you do not like kits. Really?

    If they ever make it a real thing, lucky you. If not /shrug. Judging from the poison-field/UG issue, chances are good. The opinion of one seems to be more valuable than the opinion of the others.

  • MrForz.1953MrForz.1953 Member ✭✭✭

    I try not to put anything in the second weapons slot. Messes things up with my kit-switching.

    Disgruntled Charr Engineer and Pirate - Jade Quarry

  • ROMANG.1903ROMANG.1903 Member ✭✭✭

    @HnRkLnXqZ.1870 said:
    If they really decide to enable the feature on Elementalist for real, best wishes pulling of the meta-rotations with swapping through 8 attunements, chaining 40+ skills in a row, without getting hit.

    I can see weapon swap becoming the next elementalist elite spec mechanic. Longbow anyone?

  • I'm running scrapper in WvW and I use the same weapon (hammer) in both slots, but one has a stacking sigil on it to build up the bonus

    Tootsie
    Sanctum of Rall [FLUX]
    "shut up and suck less" is the new GW2 manifesto

  • I do not want weapon swap in our out of combat, I want a PvP viable ranged weapon Kit.

  • gannondorf.7628gannondorf.7628 Member ✭✭
    edited December 19, 2019

    @Druitt.7629 said:
    If you equip multiple kits, you can have 30 weapons skills, without a weapon swap, spanning a range from melee to 1500. Elementalists also don't get a weapon swap with their 20 weapon skills. Revenant's only get 10 weapon skills, with a weapon swap -- stance doesn't change weapon skills.

    You may not like kits, and turrets don't live up to their promise, but Elementalists and Engineers, with their special mechanics, are fine without an in-combat weapon swap. The out-of-combat swap is VERY handy, but probably delayed for years because they didn't want to put up with posts talking about it as a start.

    I like kits but not the way they are implemented, taking a slot in utility skills. They would have been better taking the toolbelt place with 3 or 4 kits on the F bar like elementalist. But they didn't wanted to have an elementalist like mechanic so they gave us toolbelt… My first problem is the fact that they take utility slot and that the devs would never do a big Rework switching toolbelt for kits, so i was proposing a weapon change for being able to have some skills without having to relly on a full kits utility skill bar…

    But in near 7 years i lost faith on the future of the engineer to be honest. I Don't think the class is getting a big Rework ever...

  • subversiontwo.7501subversiontwo.7501 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 4, 2020

    Your thread actually spared me making a new thread with a rather random or spontaneous thought that occured to me and just now made me go here.

    The answer to your (the OP's) question is that they have kits. The kits replace the secondary weapon.

    However, the Scrapper spec is very heavily designed around its gyros and that has often made the Scrapper feel somewhat off. It isn't that it doesn't have a role or in any way would be complete garbage and the Hammer is mostly well designed and fun to play on. It is just that it has always given off this inkling feeling that something is missing when you play it.

    The answer to that is the same as above. It has been so heavily designed around its gyros that you get to choose between your core functionality and your elite specialisation in ways that very few other classes do (even if ArenaNet are working on creating trade offs for elite specs). The Scrapper has always had it, have always been forced to make choices and often have had trouble building well-rounded builds because of it despite that there are no obvious flaws in the design of its abilities (it just isn't as compounded in terms of effects and core functions spread more evenly). It simply has less access to certain functions because it overall plays with less slots or abilities.

    For example, like I mentioned, the Hammer is good if you look at it. It doesn't have any poor abilities that stick out in ways that other weapons may have on other specs. Yet, when you play Hammer you often feel like something is missing between damage, mobility and control. The answer is quite simply that you lack another weapon (or kit) that usually provides that swap-up but the Scrapper gives up. At the same time, it isn't as simple as bringing in a kit over a gyro because there isn't necessarily kits that fit into how its meant to be played and giving up gyro creates a much larger hole in a Scrapper build than equivalent utility skills do on other specs.

    So for the Scrapper the OP's question is rather valid. It makes sense for Core or Smith to not have weapon swaps thanks to kits but the gyro design of the Scrapper actually causes some issues with that motivation. This is what makes the Scrapper work better in larger groups with more clear-cut roles and less need for covering personal basis but is also why the most prevalent Scrapper builds there these days are very specialised into one thing even within that perspective. They are very singular focused builds even within an environment of more singularily focused builds, if that makes sense.

    The meta healing builds in WvW for example are carried by how other aspects of that build compounds functionality. The gear covers all the stats you need to only heal and that is how its gyro interaction works as well. Compared to builds that attempt to be a bit more flexible, it can afford a kit within its intended role because the role has such a narrow scope. It doesn't need to do any damage so it needs no damage stats, no damage gyros and so on. Making it rather complete but also far more onedimensional than the other typical "healing" builds of other classes.

    Anyway, this is getting lengthy. I just found it a bit fascinating.

  • Dawdler.8521Dawdler.8521 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 4, 2020

    @subversiontwo.7501 said:
    However, the Scrapper spec is very heavily designed around its gyros and that has often made the Scrapper feel somewhat off.

    It never felt somewhat off for those that hated the engineers reliance on kits pre-HoT. The scrapper basicly made the engineer playable and made it feel good. I used to run a 100% gyro build in WvW, my lovely gyro commando. The original release scrapper was glorious but with the many nerfs over the years its become incredibly meh.

    Dont look a gift Asura in the mouth.
    No seriously, dont. Shark teeth.