Jump to content
  • Sign Up

Fix Flame Blast


santenal.1054

Recommended Posts

Just started playing around with flamethrower since a long time ago.My observations/complaints about FLAME BLAST.

Give it more range!Compared to the old version the ground targeting makes this skill lose forwards travel distance ( 200-300 range) while running forwards , making this skill quite useless when chasing someone (this is because the final location is determined before the cast animation begins while previously the max distance would be determined after the initial cast animation was done)

The loss of manual detonation makes this skill clunky and slow to use.In the past you could just double click the skill and you had near instant damage and a blast finisher. Now you have to first position your cursor correctly (takes time) and hope you have chosen the right location (the correct location is determined by the direction you are traveling in and the speed you are traveling with) The farther you are off, the longer the skill takes to detonate. Time you often just don’t have in a fight.

Give it back proper power damage !
So power oriented builds can start using this kit again.

EDIT:4th complaint:Now that this skill does not track the enemy anymore the "damage by rolling through the enemy " portion should just be added to the damage on explosion because making it roll through an enemy is not reasonably achievable with such a slow ground targeted projectile against moving enemies.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@"Skotlex.7580" said:I think there was a greater number of people that approved the change to skill 2. Before it was pretty twitchy as one had to pretty much double press 2 every 5 seconds, the new version is much more relaxing. Granted, it may make targeting harder in some scenarios.

Non of my complaints is against the change to ground targeting, but ground targeting needs a farther range to maintain its "chasing" capability and the removal of manual detonation was unnecessary and a step back. Look at thief shortbow #2 it has 900 range, is ground targeted and has manual detonation capability, that is how flame blast should work like imo.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Here is the deal ...

you should probably stop using this in PVP ... because even if they fix the things you think are broken, you're just going to complain about how you kill yourself on someone's retaliation ... and then ask for basically a whole new weapon.

FT isn't a great PVP weapon ... and that's OK. As it works, it's just fine for PVE ... and it's actually really good if you play to it's strength. It's theme is clear and that's what Anet cares about. But someone complaining they can't chase players with #2 wouldn't likely recognize that strength anyways and have no idea what I'm talking about when I say 'theme'. If you consider the theme, you're ideas don't actually make much sense. You just want a weapon that works exactly for what you want to use it for. Not compelling reasons for change.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@"Obtena.7952" said:you should probably stop using this in PVP ... because even if they fix the things you think are broken, you're just going to complain about how you kill yourself on someone's retaliation ... and then ask for basically a whole new weapon.

Attack me on what I have written, not on what you think I might write in the future.I played with flamethrower for a long time and never complained about retal. But I fully respect and understand the people who request that flame jet has its damage spread over a smaller amount of damage procs and that the burning condition would be spread out instead of only being applied on the last proc. It is a reasonable request.

FT isn't a great PVP weapon ... and that's OK.

How do you determine what is and isn't OK? Are you trying to tell me to just BE OK with how things are?

If you consider the theme, you're ideas don't actually make much sense.

The "theme" wouldn't change at all (it being a short to mid range flamethrower weapon), but if you mean that the mechanics I suggest dont make much sense when compared to what is possible in real life you might have a point, but if that is the goal, anet can start deleting a whole lot of skills in this fantasy game. ( If you mean something else with "theme" please elaborate, instead of being all mysterious about it while talking down on me).

You just want a weapon that works exactly for what you want to use it for. Not compelling reasons for change.

I want the kit to be more usefull in small scale player vs player fights so more people can start using it again and start having fun with it. That is not exactly an unimportant aspect of the game imo.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I agree with the 4th complaint, but I disagree with the others (besides adding a bit more power damage co-efficient to FT skill 2, to an extent). I think the whole rolling through foes thing is outdated considering how the FT skill 2 functions now.Though I don't quite understand the whole theme launching fireballs out of a flamethrower in general. A bit goofy to me.I still use flamethrower in pvp, and I run it as power. The power variant focuses more on dealing damage with its autos, using burning as a source of augmentation to its damage, whereas the condition variant focuses on using burning as its main damage source.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@santenal.1054 said:

@"Obtena.7952" said:you should probably stop using this in PVP ... because even if they fix the things you think are broken, you're just going to complain about how you kill yourself on someone's retaliation ... and then ask for basically a whole new weapon.

Attack me on what I have written, not on what you think I might write in the future.I played with flamethrower for a long time and never complained about retal. But I fully respect and understand the people who request that flame jet has its damage spread over a smaller amount of damage procs and that the burning condition would be spread out instead of only being applied on the last proc. It is a reasonable request.

FT isn't a great PVP weapon ... and that's OK.

How do you determine what is and isn't OK? Are you trying to tell me to just
BE
OK with how things are?

I don't ... Anet does. If they wanted FT to be some amazing PVP weapon, it would ALREADY be. It is my opinion that since wedon't have a glut of weapon to choose from for any game mode, it's not a problem if FT isn't good in PVP. I'm simply telling you that if your premise to change a skill on FT is simply because of PVP, I'm going to wish you luck, because that's not ever been a significant reason for Anet to change a weapon skill.

If you consider the theme, you're ideas don't actually make much sense.

The "theme" wouldn't change at all (it being a short to mid range flamethrower weapon), but if you mean that the mechanics I suggest dont make much sense when compared to what is possible in real life you might have a point, but if that is the goal, anet can start deleting a whole lot of skills in this fantasy game. ( If you mean something else with "theme" please elaborate, instead of being all mysterious about it while talking down on me).

You just want a weapon that works exactly for what you want to use it for. Not compelling reasons for change.

I want the kit to be more usefull in small scale player vs player fights so more people can start using it again and start having fun with it. That is not
exactly
an unimportant aspect of the game imo.

I know you do and I totally get why. It's simply not compelling if you look at how Anet makes class changes. PVP being important or not has nothing to do with FT being a good PVP weapon or not.

Frankly, just based on the suggestion, I don't think it's a good change. Clearly, the idea of FT is to be hybrid-based and the short range is necessary to limit the scope of the weapon in the first place. Any ideas that pull it away from that just aren't going to go anywhere. Being hybrid doesn't prevent power users from benefiting from this weapon use. It might not be optimal for them, but that's not a reason to change it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Obtena.7952 said:Here is the deal ...

you should probably stop using this in PVP ... because even if they fix the things you think are broken, you're just going to complain about how you kill yourself on someone's retaliation ... and then ask for basically a whole new weapon.

FT isn't a great PVP weapon ... and that's OK. As it works, it's just fine for PVE ... and it's actually really good if you play to it's strength. It's theme is clear and that's what Anet cares about. But someone complaining they can't chase players with #2 wouldn't likely recognize that strength anyways and have no idea what I'm talking about when I say 'theme'. If you consider the theme, you're ideas don't actually make much sense. You just want a weapon that works exactly for what you want to use it for. Not compelling reasons for change.

What strength? the napalm on a condi set or do you mean the meme open world ft build? Thats only useful because its good at tagging while it does nothing else so perfect for open world.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

As a FT main, I actually like the new 2 as the old one was clunky and slow to use. It's easier now that you can fire (hurr) and forget. This kit has other problems I'd rather see addressed. The only thing I agree with is the range being low.

3's cooldown is too low for how short lived and it is as a defense.Ever since the removal of Toss U's wall, 4 needs to destroy projectiles.5 needs more range, or become a smoke field, or both even.Also the 1 skill. Getting a single 4 second burn stack at the end of the auto is... weird to say the least. I'd change it to a half second of burning per damage tick. Also instead of getting a burst animation every 3 seconds, it really should be "hold to fire continuously". This will be.. what.. a mild damage boost at best?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Nephalem.8921 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:Here is the deal ...

you should probably stop using this in PVP ... because even if they fix the things you think are broken, you're just going to complain about how you kill yourself on someone's retaliation ... and then ask for basically a whole new weapon.

FT isn't a great PVP weapon ... and that's OK. As it works, it's just fine for PVE ... and it's actually really good if you play to it's strength. It's theme is clear and that's what Anet cares about. But someone complaining they can't chase players with #2 wouldn't likely recognize that strength anyways and have no idea what I'm talking about when I say 'theme'. If you consider the theme, you're ideas don't actually make much sense. You just want a weapon that works exactly for what you want to use it for. Not compelling reasons for change.

What strength? the napalm on a condi set or do you mean the meme open world ft build? Thats only useful because its good at tagging while it does nothing else so perfect for open world.

The strength of that weapon is its crit frequency in addition to it's AOE. Maybe that's not a big deal to you ... doesn't mean it's not a big deal and it doesn't change what I said either. IT's not a problem that FT is n't a great PVP weapon ... that's not unique to this weapon or this class. The way #2 works now is an improvement on how it used to work as well, so it's a relevant context.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:Here is the deal ...

you should probably stop using this in PVP ... because even if they fix the things you think are broken, you're just going to complain about how you kill yourself on someone's retaliation ... and then ask for basically a whole new weapon.

FT isn't a great PVP weapon ... and that's OK. As it works, it's just fine for PVE ... and it's actually really good if you play to it's strength. It's theme is clear and that's what Anet cares about. But someone complaining they can't chase players with #2 wouldn't likely recognize that strength anyways and have no idea what I'm talking about when I say 'theme'. If you consider the theme, you're ideas don't actually make much sense. You just want a weapon that works exactly for what you want to use it for. Not compelling reasons for change.

What strength? the napalm on a condi set or do you mean the meme open world ft build? Thats only useful because its good at tagging while it does nothing else so perfect for open world.

The strength of that weapon is its crit frequency in addition to it's AOE. Maybe that's not a big deal to you ... doesn't mean it's not a big deal and it doesn't change what I said either. IT's not a problem that FT is n't a great PVP weapon ... that's not unique to this weapon or this class. The way #2 works now is an improvement on how it used to work as well, so it's a relevant context.

Can you explain what you mean by crit frequency please?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@knite.1542 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:Here is the deal ...

you should probably stop using this in PVP ... because even if they fix the things you think are broken, you're just going to complain about how you kill yourself on someone's retaliation ... and then ask for basically a whole new weapon.

FT isn't a great PVP weapon ... and that's OK. As it works, it's just fine for PVE ... and it's actually really good if you play to it's strength. It's theme is clear and that's what Anet cares about. But someone complaining they can't chase players with #2 wouldn't likely recognize that strength anyways and have no idea what I'm talking about when I say 'theme'. If you consider the theme, you're ideas don't actually make much sense. You just want a weapon that works exactly for what you want to use it for. Not compelling reasons for change.

What strength? the napalm on a condi set or do you mean the meme open world ft build? Thats only useful because its good at tagging while it does nothing else so perfect for open world.

The strength of that weapon is its crit frequency in addition to it's AOE. Maybe that's not a big deal to you ... doesn't mean it's not a big deal and it doesn't change what I said either. IT's not a problem that FT is n't a great PVP weapon ... that's not unique to this weapon or this class. The way #2 works now is an improvement on how it used to work as well, so it's a relevant context.

Can you explain what you mean by crit frequency please?

Ah, yes, what I mean is ... it procs crit based effects almost immediately on CD.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Obtena.7952 said:Ah, yes, what I mean is ... it procs crit based effects almost immediately on CD.

You mean bleed on crit? Because almost all the other stuff has an internal cooldown so the high rate of fire adds really nothing except of killing you vs retaliation + flamethrower has such awful low damage that spaming bomb 1 with 0 might does as much damage as ft with 25.FT is a very very badly designed weapon. The skill nr 2 change was some nice qol improvement which should have been in the game from the start though. Engineer kits just need a rework. Guard got like 50000 weapon and trait reworks. Its time for engi to get something useful. Engi weapons are just bad. Thats why everyone is playing scrapper or holo or full kits in every gamemode

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Nephalem.8921 said:

@"Obtena.7952" said:Ah, yes, what I mean is ... it procs crit based effects almost immediately on CD.

You mean bleed on crit? Because almost all the other stuff has an internal cooldown so the high rate of fire adds really nothing except of killing you vs retaliation + flamethrower has such awful low damage that spaming bomb 1 with 0 might does as much damage as ft with 25.FT is a very very badly designed weapon. The skill nr 2 change was some nice qol improvement which should have been in the game from the start though. Engineer kits just need a rework. Guard got like 50000 weapon and trait reworks. Its time for engi to get something useful. Engi weapons are just bad. Thats why everyone is playing scrapper or holo or full kits in every gamemode

Sorry, I'll have to chime in here. What you said near the beginning about bomb 1 with no might doing as much damage as an FT auto with 25 might is absolutely false. Several factors play into this.Flamethrower is a unique weapon kit that really benefits off of 2 things: Crit chance and Quickness. High crit chance and high uptime of quickness can really see substantial increases in overall DPS. Because of the nature of the flamethrower entirely really (string of multiple hits that have their own separate crit chances). Not only the direct damage is effected, but the utils that the passive traits in the Firearms trait line offer are affected and increased in potency as well, because of the high crit chance. Which is why I always recommend, with running FT as a hybrid or power weapon, to run Firearms bot-bot-top (High Caliber for the increased crit chance when in range, and No Scope for the fury proc when you crit, which also augments ferocity). The bomb kit does deal high damage, but FT with crits outdamages it by a long shot. I'd try playing around with the aforementioned set up while running Scrapper bot-bot-bot (Mass Momentum for the might while you have stab every second, Object in Motion to better supplement damage increases while you have swiftness, stab, and superspeed, and Applied Force to gain more power while you have quickness while you gain might a or above the threshold).The FT skill 2 change, I agree, was a great QoL change. They just need to now get rid of that whole "rolling through foes" thing and just implement that initial aspects' damage and effect into the explosion part of the skill.Not all Engineer weapons are bad, it's just that the elite specs are currently over the top.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@"Ghos.1326" said:Sorry, I'll have to chime in here. What you said near the beginning about bomb 1 with no might doing as much damage as an FT auto with 25 might is absolutely false. Several factors play into this.Flamethrower is a unique weapon kit that really benefits off of 2 things: Crit chance and Quickness. High crit chance and high uptime of quickness can really see substantial increases in overall DPS. Because of the nature of the flamethrower entirely really (string of multiple hits that have their own separate crit chances). Not only the direct damage is effected, but the utils that the passive traits in the Firearms trait line offer are affected and increased in potency as well, because of the high crit chance. Which is why I always recommend, with running FT as a hybrid or power weapon, to run Firearms bot-bot-top (High Caliber for the increased crit chance when in range, and No Scope for the fury proc when you crit, which also augments ferocity). The bomb kit does deal high damage, but FT with crits outdamages it by a long shot. I'd try playing around with the aforementioned set up while running Scrapper bot-bot-bot (Mass Momentum for the might while you have stab every second, Object in Motion to better supplement damage increases while you have swiftness, stab, and superspeed, and Applied Force to gain more power while you have quickness while you gain might a or above the threshold).The FT skill 2 change, I agree, was a great QoL change. They just need to now get rid of that whole "rolling through foes" thing and just implement that initial aspects' damage and effect into the explosion part of the skill.Not all Engineer weapons are bad, it's just that the elite specs are currently over the top.

Bombs scale with quickness aswell and they can also crit. The minor bleed in crit is the only trait that will procc more or golden dumplings but who uses them in open world anyways.And like i said. Bombs without might do as much damage as ft with 20-23. Juggernaut is a terrible trait to run. Just try it on golem. Add a strength sigil and you will have 10+ might with just pressing 1 on bombs while running around and they cleave 5 targets. And since you are not running juggernaut you can even swap to other kits/weapons and use good skills together with modified ammunition.I tried multiple builds after this and got way higher results using bombs or hammer. the braindead hammer + gyro build spam all off cd was also much higher than ft with skills. Standard raid holo with just self buffs did also twice the dps of the scrapper build.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Nephalem.8921 said:

@"Obtena.7952" said:Ah, yes, what I mean is ... it procs crit based effects almost immediately on CD.

You mean bleed on crit? Because almost all the other stuff has an internal cooldown so the high rate of fire adds really nothing except of killing you vs retaliation + flamethrower has such awful low damage that spaming bomb 1 with 0 might does as much damage as ft with 25.FT is a very very badly designed weapon. The skill nr 2 change was some nice qol improvement which should have been in the game from the start though. Engineer kits just need a rework. Guard got like 50000 weapon and trait reworks. Its time for engi to get something useful. Engi weapons are just bad. Thats why everyone is playing scrapper or holo or full kits in every gamemode

I don't honestly get your post because killing yourself on retal has NOTHING to do with using FT to proc on crits. TWO COMPLETELY separate issues.

Hey, if you think spamming bomb 1 with no might does as much damage as FT with 25 stacks ... that's your OPTION to take and that's why FT as it is, isn't a problem. Bomb doing more DPS ISN"T a reason to change FT either, so it's a moot point. If you don't think crit procing is a valuable, that's fine, but it IS what FT does as part of it's strenght ... and if you have a clue how to take advantage of that, it does it really well ... but don't let me stop you from thinking spamming bomb 1 is better. I'm not going to tell you how to play.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@"Obtena.7952" said:Hey, if you think spamming bomb 1 with no might does as much damage as FT with 25 stacks ... that's your OPTION to take and that's why FT as it is, isn't a problem. Bomb doing more DPS ISN"T a reason to change FT either, so it's a moot point. If you don't think crit procing is a valuable, that's fine, but it IS what FT does as part of it's strenght ... and if you have a clue how to take advantage of that, it does it really well ... but don't let me stop you from thinking spamming bomb 1 is better. I'm not going to tell you how to play.

Everyone runs around with 50% critchance minimum. I really don't understand why "crit proccing" should matter when almost everything has an internal cd on it anyways and that one trait that works with it is even barely worth it.Its a garbage kit outside of the full condi pve engi for just 2 skills or lab farm as tag weapon. "Its part of its strength" has to be a joke. Every autoattack on core engi except bombs is garbage. That is a problem.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Nephalem.8921 said:Everyone runs around with 50% critchance minimum.

You think so? This is coming from the same guy that compares FT auto at full might stacks worse than unbuffed bomb AA? OK, whatever you say man ... That doesn't change what I said anyways and it should give you a hint of why this is a strength of the FT kit. BUT ... if you think that capability is not valuable to you or you can't figure out how to use that your advantage, you have better choices and aren't forced to use it.

@Nephalem.8921 said:Its a garbage kit outside of the full condi pve engi for just 2 skills or lab farm as tag weapon. "Its part of its strength" has to be a joke. Every autoattack on core engi except bombs is garbage. That is a problem.

No, that's not a problem. It's NEVER been a problem in this game. It's normal. Not every weapon is good for everything players want to use it for. Again ... you aren't recognizing our options aren't here to placate people's desire for a whole bunch of options in optimal performance ... it's THEME driven. I can't explain this to you. If you don't get it, you will simply have to sit and wonder why you can't figure out why Anet acts how they do.

BTW, when did this thread become a 'let's fix AA on FT' ...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Nephalem.8921 said:

@"Ghos.1326" said:Sorry, I'll have to chime in here. What you said near the beginning about bomb 1 with no might doing as much damage as an FT auto with 25 might is absolutely false. Several factors play into this.Flamethrower is a unique weapon kit that really benefits off of 2 things: Crit chance and Quickness. High crit chance and high uptime of quickness can really see substantial increases in overall DPS. Because of the nature of the flamethrower entirely really (string of multiple hits that have their own separate crit chances). Not only the direct damage is effected, but the utils that the passive traits in the Firearms trait line offer are affected and increased in potency as well, because of the high crit chance. Which is why I always recommend, with running FT as a hybrid or power weapon, to run Firearms bot-bot-top (High Caliber for the increased crit chance when in range, and No Scope for the fury proc when you crit, which also augments ferocity). The bomb kit does deal high damage, but FT with crits outdamages it by a long shot. I'd try playing around with the aforementioned set up while running Scrapper bot-bot-bot (Mass Momentum for the might while you have stab every second, Object in Motion to better supplement damage increases while you have swiftness, stab, and superspeed, and Applied Force to gain more power while you have quickness while you gain might a or above the threshold).The FT skill 2 change, I agree, was a great QoL change. They just need to now get rid of that whole "rolling through foes" thing and just implement that initial aspects' damage and effect into the explosion part of the skill.Not all Engineer weapons are bad, it's just that the elite specs are currently over the top.

Bombs scale with quickness aswell and they can also crit. The minor bleed in crit is the only trait that will procc more or golden dumplings but who uses them in open world anyways.And like i said. Bombs without might do as much damage as ft with 20-23. Juggernaut is a terrible trait to run. Just try it on golem. Add a strength sigil and you will have 10+ might with just pressing 1 on bombs while running around and they cleave 5 targets. And since you are not running juggernaut you can even swap to other kits/weapons and use good skills together with modified ammunition.I tried multiple builds after this and got way higher results using bombs or hammer. the braindead hammer + gyro build spam all off cd was also much higher than ft with skills. Standard raid holo with just self buffs did also twice the dps of the scrapper build.

I'll showcase some of my damage on a golem, because on other player characters, with one flamethrower auto, i can hit anywhere up from 6-7k. I know because I use Juggernaut Flamethrower in PvP.

EDIT: as a power build, to boot.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...