Firebrand is OP

[otto.5684]

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@ollbirtan.2915 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@ollbirtan.2915 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@ollbirtan.2915 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@ollbirtan.2915 said:

@Crozame.4098 said:

@ollbirtan.2915 said:

@Crozame.4098 said:

@ollbirtan.2915 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@"Gamble.4580" said:Fb is easy to kill on a + unlike ele war and even a good player on rev. So it’s not as op for fishing.Next it has a Rock Paper Scissors on 1v1s, so I view that as balanced there.Next is team focused fights, it’s good but I think reaper, eng, core grd, rev are more impactful there, so although it can have some impactful combos I think for the fight all around the above would be most impactful for the win.So in my eyes it’s not op there.So the op part must come from the fact that it can do all the roles the best out of all other. From classes such as Eng, staff ele, Dh, core nec. and that offers map control that swings games to a win as it can adapt to the roles needed to sway map.So if that’s the case, its the new Holo. And thats why it was its a S class as top players played it because it’s power won ranked games and could carry noobs there for Securing their rating. and because good players played it it become even More op. haveing games with a team mate rping that role makes games much more interesting!! that’s the games we was 200 ahead and by timer end up looseing.And this is where thf can shine. And why thf can be S ranking. A thf who plays that role and that’s the play every role for map control they will become a S ranking thf like Sin, Vallun And so on and all the other thfs who don’t play that role and just focus on one or two of theM roles will never be.The noobs cry on forums for the nurfs for classes that can play that role as they notice them when vs but never notice that’s why they won that game because that player carries for them securing their own rateing.

But if they win and it’s touched please only touch fb, and that touch be to axe so it don’t nurf other fb roles, as well as not being a nurf that effects dh and core grd.As for what nurf to axe u could do, I could not tell u.

In what world is FB easy to kill, lol

In the current reality of GW2 . Maybe you should try playing FB and see yourself how easy it can be killed.

I tried. If you know how to kite a bit, its indeed hard to kill. Especially in 1v1s.

Your statement is true to any other class. It's l2p issue .

Every class of course has l2p issues, I mean, you cant win anything if you are new to the class. So, making a irrefutable argument is not helping.Second of all, check your arguments: you said play it your self and see whether it can be killed. And I replied: yes I tried, its hard to get killed. And then you say: its every class, its a learn to play issue. Godlike logical arguments mate, bravo!Third: related to my first point, its true that every class asks for some basic understanding to be playable. However, the intensive margin differs. Symbolband for example, one does not need to invest a lot of time in order to beat other melee classes nor to win a MAT. For the first few games, I did bad. But after 8-10 games, I understand a bit, and kitten on melee classes: especially wars.

First - you are the one making irrelevant comments -'if you know how to kite' etc.Second - This is again an l2p issue and/or personal feeling which doesn't add any proof point to the subject.Third - Again, this is merely personal experience. I actually can relate -- So many people cry on forums that thieves are OP. Well, I personally absolutely suck at playing thieves. I tried. Tried very hard to learn - but no. It's just not the class I can play.

To sum up - don't make this another PLEASE NERF -insert class here - thread. Facts vs biased statements would be a good start, Cheers

you might not know that but some classes are better at kiting then others.if you hop up a bunch of boxes, and the only way to get to you is stand in melee, then you are absolutely kitten against fb and their symbols.can you kite on all classes? yes, but when FB gets to kite spots he just take big fat kitten on it and anybody that tries to follow doesnt get to do anything.Before this cheese dissipates he heals to full, farts 10 boons and he is good as new.

Are you suggesting to overhaul the pvp map design here or what? In that case, things like no-port spots, certain skills that pass through walls should be fixed too. And again --- this has nothing to do with FB.

Maps are designed how they are designed.Mobility is important so thief was nerfed over the years. Its how it is.Some classes take better advantage from terrain the others.If X class uses kiting spot all it does is buying some time.If Y class does the same and suddenly becomes impossible to kill due to the way their mechanics work, then this is advantage they have.Power should be budgeted, if you are good in 1 thing you should be equally bad in another.You said FB is easy to kill, 100% untrue. All it takes is some kiting and they can survive outnumbered for RIDICULOUS ammouts of time.Just watch some mAT. and you will see plenty of FB stay 1v2 for 30s+, and if they get to kite spot its over, nothing can be done.

Like I said, the same is true for other classes. It's skill. Also, MATs are not the perfect benchmark to look vat balance from my pov as MATs represent just a tiny % of the dedicated PVPers / skillers players - whatever you want to call them. Saying that FB is too bursty and also tanky is just kitten. Have you played against a Scrapper ? Plenty of those too in MATs - unkillable and also hit hard.

So you are saying FB is hard to play?Or are you saying that top % players unlock firebrands hidden potential that people under 0,1% cant make work?If you assume FB doesnt play properly then you might as well assume that his oposition will make mistakes too.

Wow...none of the above. Try reading again. Regardless, I see no point to continue this discussion with you. Your lack of proper argument gets stale.

you pretending that FB is easy to kill and hard to play is not only stale but funny.

YOUR WORDS :

MATs are not the perfect benchmark to look vat balance from my pov as MATs represent just a tiny % of the dedicated PVPers / skillers players

Skilled MAT FB player will play against SKILLED MAT other classes.Unless you lie to yourself that somehow FB is harder to play then thief/mesmer/warrior/rev or whatever.FB is busted, mb you should learn to abuse it properly if you think its not tanky.

Easy to kill? No. Easy to play? Not really (but there are no "easy" or "hard" builds). And easiness of playing has nothing to do with effectiveness anyway. They are not and will never be correlated.

In any case, this thread has derailed into bull shit. 99% of the player base (including the majority of posters in this form) do not even understand the difference between support FB, sage FB and symbol FB. And think they are fighting the same build all at once, even though they run different amulets, trait lines, utilities and weapons. Like the OP who listed every major trait in the FB line.

There are issues in FB that need toning down regarding support for sure. Dps, mostly L2P. And Anet already mentioned FB and rev are on their radar, cuz they are certainly holding an edge in AT. If next patch is as big as Anet hyped it to be, it could be a major shake-up. I am skeptical of so.

And this goes for all builds, I would rather have something slightly outperforming than being completely dead. Scourge did not need the last nerf, and completely removing it made the meta much worse. And if you are a necro main, this is result of Anet following QQ with zero testing or understanding what the issues are, which has been the trend for the last 18 month or so.

[Math.5123]

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@ollbirtan.2915 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@ollbirtan.2915 said:

@Crozame.4098 said:

@ollbirtan.2915 said:

@Crozame.4098 said:

@ollbirtan.2915 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@"Gamble.4580" said:Fb is easy to kill on a + unlike ele war and even a good player on rev. So it’s not as op for fishing.Next it has a Rock Paper Scissors on 1v1s, so I view that as balanced there.Next is team focused fights, it’s good but I think reaper, eng, core grd, rev are more impactful there, so although it can have some impactful combos I think for the fight all around the above would be most impactful for the win.So in my eyes it’s not op there.So the op part must come from the fact that it can do all the roles the best out of all other. From classes such as Eng, staff ele, Dh, core nec. and that offers map control that swings games to a win as it can adapt to the roles needed to sway map.So if that’s the case, its the new Holo. And thats why it was its a S class as top players played it because it’s power won ranked games and could carry noobs there for Securing their rating. and because good players played it it become even More op. haveing games with a team mate rping that role makes games much more interesting!! that’s the games we was 200 ahead and by timer end up looseing.And this is where thf can shine. And why thf can be S ranking. A thf who plays that role and that’s the play every role for map control they will become a S ranking thf like Sin, Vallun And so on and all the other thfs who don’t play that role and just focus on one or two of theM roles will never be.The noobs cry on forums for the nurfs for classes that can play that role as they notice them when vs but never notice that’s why they won that game because that player carries for them securing their own rateing.

But if they win and it’s touched please only touch fb, and that touch be to axe so it don’t nurf other fb roles, as well as not being a nurf that effects dh and core grd.As for what nurf to axe u could do, I could not tell u.

In what world is FB easy to kill, lol

In the current reality of GW2 . Maybe you should try playing FB and see yourself how easy it can be killed.

I tried. If you know how to kite a bit, its indeed hard to kill. Especially in 1v1s.

Your statement is true to any other class. It's l2p issue .

Every class of course has l2p issues, I mean, you cant win anything if you are new to the class. So, making a irrefutable argument is not helping.Second of all, check your arguments: you said play it your self and see whether it can be killed. And I replied: yes I tried, its hard to get killed. And then you say: its every class, its a learn to play issue. Godlike logical arguments mate, bravo!Third: related to my first point, its true that every class asks for some basic understanding to be playable. However, the intensive margin differs. Symbolband for example, one does not need to invest a lot of time in order to beat other melee classes nor to win a MAT. For the first few games, I did bad. But after 8-10 games, I understand a bit, and kitten on melee classes: especially wars.

First - you are the one making irrelevant comments -'if you know how to kite' etc.Second - This is again an l2p issue and/or personal feeling which doesn't add any proof point to the subject.Third - Again, this is merely personal experience. I actually can relate -- So many people cry on forums that thieves are OP. Well, I personally absolutely suck at playing thieves. I tried. Tried very hard to learn - but no. It's just not the class I can play.

To sum up - don't make this another PLEASE NERF -insert class here - thread. Facts vs biased statements would be a good start, Cheers

you might not know that but some classes are better at kiting then others.if you hop up a bunch of boxes, and the only way to get to you is stand in melee, then you are absolutely kitten against fb and their symbols.can you kite on all classes? yes, but when FB gets to kite spots he just take big fat kitten on it and anybody that tries to follow doesnt get to do anything.Before this cheese dissipates he heals to full, farts 10 boons and he is good as new.

Are you suggesting to overhaul the pvp map design here or what? In that case, things like no-port spots, certain skills that pass through walls should be fixed too. And again --- this has nothing to do with FB.

Maps are designed how they are designed.Mobility is important so thief was nerfed over the years. Its how it is.Some classes take better advantage from terrain the others.If X class uses kiting spot all it does is buying some time.If Y class does the same and suddenly becomes impossible to kill due to the way their mechanics work, then this is advantage they have.Power should be budgeted, if you are good in 1 thing you should be equally bad in another.You said FB is easy to kill, 100% untrue. All it takes is some kiting and they can survive outnumbered for RIDICULOUS ammouts of time.Just watch some mAT. and you will see plenty of FB stay 1v2 for 30s+, and if they get to kite spot its over, nothing can be done.

Firebrand (symbol / sage) has no mobility. No leaps, one 600 range port on sword and extremely limited access to swiftness (7 seconds every 55 seconds.)It has extremely limited cleansing potential, especially the sage variant and it gets eaten alive by mirage and Weaver. It has a losing matchup against most ranged classes, core ranger and slb being the "meta" builds.And saying it survives in a +1 is simply not true. Having a rev + you and you'll go down quickly enough. Any form of unlockable pressure is massive against fb and guard in general.

It also has almost no stability, unless dropping renewed focus for mantra. In which case you'll instantly die to a +1.

Also, if they get to a kite-stop, it's over? What rofl. Just range them. It's no different than scourge was, you couldn't melee them either.