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make clones invuln for 2 sec upon creation


Stand The Wall.6987

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this would allow mesmers to actually use their profession mechanic in cases where its impossible and might even make chrono viable again.

good idea or no?

editinvuln wouldn't pop up on screen, clones would be like scourge shades.maybe even instead of invuln the clones could inherit the mesmers actual health at the time, vitality, and armor for 2 sec.

2nd editmake clones perma invuln, make shatters weaker but with shorter cd.

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@"Stand The Wall.6987" said:this would allow mesmers to actually use their profession mechanic in cases where its impossible and might even make chrono viable again.

good idea or no?

You do realize that this change would make it easier to find the Mesmer amongst the screen clutter right? "Well that one wasn't invulnerable so lets throw all the AoE/CC over there."

I know that is a bit simplistic, but it is quicker than looking at the buffs on the target bar.

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@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@"Stand The Wall.6987" said:this would allow mesmers to actually use their profession mechanic in cases where its impossible and might even make chrono viable again.

good idea or no?

You do realize that this change would make it easier to find the Mesmer amongst the screen clutter right? "Well that one wasn't invulnerable so lets throw all the AoE/CC over there."

I know that is a bit simplistic, but it is quicker than looking at the buffs on the target bar.

how you figure? invuln wouldn't pop up on screen. taking this into account how would finding the mes be easier if the clones actually lived through the aoe? its way easier to find a mes when they have no clones lol.

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@Stand The Wall.6987 said:

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:this would allow mesmers to actually use their profession mechanic in cases where its impossible and might even make chrono viable again.

good idea or no?

You do realize that this change would make it easier to find the Mesmer amongst the screen clutter right? "Well that one wasn't invulnerable so lets throw all the AoE/CC over there."

I know that is a bit simplistic, but it is quicker than looking at the buffs on the target bar.

how you figure? invuln wouldn't pop up on screen. taking this into account how would finding the mes be easier if the clones actually lived through the aoe? its way easier to find a mes when they have no clones lol.

All the clones would be popping up "invuln" or "0" where the real one would actually be taking damage. Besides that this would really suck to fight in PvP for other professions. Being unable to cleave down clones before they can spawn a bunch is important. This would give mesmer too much of an advantage. In PvE? Sure.

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@"Zexanima.7851" said:All the clones would be popping up "invuln" or "0" where the real one would actually be taking damage. Besides that this would really suck to fight in PvP for other professions. Being unable to cleave down clones before they can spawn a bunch is important. This would give mesmer too much of an advantage. In PvE? Sure.

no there wouldn't be any pop ups saying invuln, edited op my bad. might be better if they just had more vitality. 2 sec of invuln isn't really that big of a deal, and if it is it can be reduced to 1 sec.

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@Stand The Wall.6987 said:

@"Zexanima.7851" said:All the clones would be popping up "invuln" or "0" where the real one would actually be taking damage. Besides that this would really suck to fight in PvP for other professions. Being unable to cleave down clones before they can spawn a bunch is important. This would give mesmer too much of an advantage. In PvE? Sure.

no there wouldn't be any pop ups saying invuln, edited op my bad. might be better if they just had more vitality. 2 sec of invuln isn't really that big of a deal, and if it is it can be reduced to 1 sec.

I cant really comment of the difficulty of spawning clones as mesmer as I don't play it much. Playing against it though mirage has no trouble loading me up with condi with how they currently are and core shatter has no issue bursting me from stealth. Sure you can buff their durability but you would have to sacrifice some damage for it.

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It's only WvW where clones need severe survival aid. In PvE they already have -95% damage from non direct target sources. In PvP it seems it's okay as it currently stands.

Perhaps the better fix would be to apply the PvE setting (damage reduction) in all game modes, that would allow clones a survival chance when showered in scourge bombs during large scale WvW. Maybe except in PvP, where such a change would need more consideration.

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@Stand The Wall.6987 said:

@Zexanima.7851 said:All the clones would be popping up "invuln" or "0" where the real one would actually be taking damage. Besides that this would really suck to fight in PvP for other professions. Being unable to cleave down clones before they can spawn a bunch is important. This would give mesmer too much of an advantage. In PvE? Sure.

no there wouldn't be any pop ups saying invuln, edited op my bad. might be better if they just had more vitality. 2 sec of invuln isn't really that big of a deal, and if it is it can be reduced to 1 sec.

Your opponent would still see that no damage was done due to the lack of numbers. Counter play is still needed, and as I said, your opponent will see the ones that got damaged and the one(s) that did not and act accordingly.

@Zexanima.7851 said:

@Zexanima.7851 said:All the clones would be popping up "invuln" or "0" where the real one would actually be taking damage. Besides that this would really suck to fight in PvP for other professions. Being unable to cleave down clones before they can spawn a bunch is important. This would give mesmer too much of an advantage. In PvE? Sure.

no there wouldn't be any pop ups saying invuln, edited op my bad. might be better if they just had more vitality. 2 sec of invuln isn't really that big of a deal, and if it is it can be reduced to 1 sec.

I cant really comment of the difficulty of spawning clones as mesmer as I don't play it much. Playing against it though mirage has no trouble loading me up with condi with how they currently are and core shatter has no issue bursting me from stealth. Sure you can buff their durability but you would have to sacrifice some damage for it.

I second this. If you want clones to have invuln frames when they are created then there would need to be a sacrifice, something like mirage clones cannot use ambush skills during those frames.

You have to remember that a large number of players have trouble finding the right Mesmer to hit already and this proposed change would not be a good thing.

Now should there be a trait to reduced damage to clones in WvW like PvE? That is something that can be debated, but you'd also have to realize that even then it would help your opponent find the real Mesmer, and clones are useless to a dead Mesmer.

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@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@Zexanima.7851 said:All the clones would be popping up "invuln" or "0" where the real one would actually be taking damage. Besides that this would really suck to fight in PvP for other professions. Being unable to cleave down clones before they can spawn a bunch is important. This would give mesmer too much of an advantage. In PvE? Sure.

no there wouldn't be any pop ups saying invuln, edited op my bad. might be better if they just had more vitality. 2 sec of invuln isn't really that big of a deal, and if it is it can be reduced to 1 sec.

Your opponent would still see that no damage was done due to the lack of numbers. Counter play is still needed, and as I said, your opponent will see the ones that got damaged and the one(s) that did not and act accordingly.

@Zexanima.7851 said:All the clones would be popping up "invuln" or "0" where the real one would actually be taking damage. Besides that this would really suck to fight in PvP for other professions. Being unable to cleave down clones before they can spawn a bunch is important. This would give mesmer too much of an advantage. In PvE? Sure.

no there wouldn't be any pop ups saying invuln, edited op my bad. might be better if they just had more vitality. 2 sec of invuln isn't really that big of a deal, and if it is it can be reduced to 1 sec.

I cant really comment of the difficulty of spawning clones as mesmer as I don't play it much. Playing against it though mirage has no trouble loading me up with condi with how they currently are and core shatter has no issue bursting me from stealth. Sure you can buff their durability but you would have to sacrifice some damage for it.

I second this. If you want clones to have invuln frames when they are created then there would need to be a sacrifice, something like mirage clones cannot use ambush skills during those frames.

You have to remember that a large number of players have trouble finding the right Mesmer to hit already and this proposed change would not be a good thing.

Now should there be a trait to reduced damage to clones in WvW like PvE? That is something that can be debated, but you'd also have to realize that even then it would help your opponent find the real Mesmer, and clones are useless to a dead Mesmer.

Realistically speaking, its better to be found in a sea of clones then not have any becouse they died to 1 tick of rangers arrow rain.Even in smallish scale of 8v8 to 10v10 you cant set up more then 2 clones. GL playing chrono and actually using f4 lol.

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@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Zexanima.7851 said:All the clones would be popping up "invuln" or "0" where the real one would actually be taking damage. Besides that this would really suck to fight in PvP for other professions. Being unable to cleave down clones before they can spawn a bunch is important. This would give mesmer too much of an advantage. In PvE? Sure.

no there wouldn't be any pop ups saying invuln, edited op my bad. might be better if they just had more vitality. 2 sec of invuln isn't really that big of a deal, and if it is it can be reduced to 1 sec.

Your opponent would still see that no damage was done due to the lack of numbers. Counter play is still needed, and as I said, your opponent will see the ones that got damaged and the one(s) that did not and act accordingly.

@Zexanima.7851 said:All the clones would be popping up "invuln" or "0" where the real one would actually be taking damage. Besides that this would really suck to fight in PvP for other professions. Being unable to cleave down clones before they can spawn a bunch is important. This would give mesmer too much of an advantage. In PvE? Sure.

no there wouldn't be any pop ups saying invuln, edited op my bad. might be better if they just had more vitality. 2 sec of invuln isn't really that big of a deal, and if it is it can be reduced to 1 sec.

I cant really comment of the difficulty of spawning clones as mesmer as I don't play it much. Playing against it though mirage has no trouble loading me up with condi with how they currently are and core shatter has no issue bursting me from stealth. Sure you can buff their durability but you would have to sacrifice some damage for it.

I second this. If you want clones to have invuln frames when they are created then there would need to be a sacrifice, something like mirage clones cannot use ambush skills during those frames.

You have to remember that a large number of players have trouble finding the right Mesmer to hit already and this proposed change would not be a good thing.

Now should there be a trait to reduced damage to clones in WvW like PvE? That is something that can be debated, but you'd also have to realize that even then it would help your opponent find the real Mesmer, and clones are useless to a dead Mesmer.

Realistically speaking, its better to be found in a sea of clones then not have any becouse they died to 1 tick of rangers arrow rain.Even in smallish scale of 8v8 to 10v10 you cant set up more then 2 clones. GL playing chrono and actually using f4 lol.

I'm not disputing the lifespan issue once battlefield numbers go above 5v5, but there is also small scale to consider. You'd break one aspect of WvW for Mesmers in order to have a shot at playing Mesmer in a zerg where 90% of the zerg are Scourges, FBs, and the occasional SpB and Scrapper?

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@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@Zexanima.7851 said:All the clones would be popping up "invuln" or "0" where the real one would actually be taking damage. Besides that this would really suck to fight in PvP for other professions. Being unable to cleave down clones before they can spawn a bunch is important. This would give mesmer too much of an advantage. In PvE? Sure.

no there wouldn't be any pop ups saying invuln, edited op my bad. might be better if they just had more vitality. 2 sec of invuln isn't really that big of a deal, and if it is it can be reduced to 1 sec.

Your opponent would still see that no damage was done due to the lack of numbers. Counter play is still needed, and as I said, your opponent will see the ones that got damaged and the one(s) that did not and act accordingly.

@Zexanima.7851 said:All the clones would be popping up "invuln" or "0" where the real one would actually be taking damage. Besides that this would really suck to fight in PvP for other professions. Being unable to cleave down clones before they can spawn a bunch is important. This would give mesmer too much of an advantage. In PvE? Sure.

no there wouldn't be any pop ups saying invuln, edited op my bad. might be better if they just had more vitality. 2 sec of invuln isn't really that big of a deal, and if it is it can be reduced to 1 sec.

I cant really comment of the difficulty of spawning clones as mesmer as I don't play it much. Playing against it though mirage has no trouble loading me up with condi with how they currently are and core shatter has no issue bursting me from stealth. Sure you can buff their durability but you would have to sacrifice some damage for it.

I second this. If you want clones to have invuln frames when they are created then there would need to be a sacrifice, something like mirage clones cannot use ambush skills during those frames.

You have to remember that a large number of players have trouble finding the right Mesmer to hit already and this proposed change would not be a good thing.

Now should there be a trait to reduced damage to clones in WvW like PvE? That is something that can be debated, but you'd also have to realize that even then it would help your opponent find the real Mesmer, and clones are useless to a dead Mesmer.

Realistically speaking, its better to be found in a sea of clones then not have any becouse they died to 1 tick of rangers arrow rain.Even in smallish scale of 8v8 to 10v10 you cant set up more then 2 clones. GL playing chrono and actually using f4 lol.

I'm not disputing the lifespan issue once battlefield numbers go above 5v5, but there is also small scale to consider. You'd break one aspect of WvW for Mesmers in order to have a shot at playing Mesmer in a zerg where 90% of the zerg are Scourges, FBs, and the occasional SpB and Scrapper?

its not a rocket science to figure out solution, have clones take 5% reduced damage from AoE per enemy character when within 5000 range,in 5v5 its 25%. in 10v10 its 50%. in 20 v 20 it would cap at 90% or something.Doing SOMETHING is GOOD.Trying to fix the issue and failing is better then not trying, if it doesnt work say fuck it and revert.

EDIT.Or make it so when there is more then 5 enemies in X area around you clones take -80% dmg from aoe.Or this or that, try something.

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@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:Your opponent would still see that no damage was done due to the lack of numbers. Counter play is still needed, and as I said, your opponent will see the ones that got damaged and the one(s) that did not and act accordingly.

err yeah you're right. maybe have the numbers show up but they don't actually count for damage? idk.

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:I'm not disputing the lifespan issue once battlefield numbers go above 5v5, but there is also small scale to consider. You'd break one aspect of WvW for Mesmers in order to have a shot at playing Mesmer in a zerg where 90% of the zerg are Scourges, FBs, and the occasional SpB and Scrapper?

nah right now wvw zerging is broken cuz you can't spawn any clones, and mesmers don't really need any help in small scale. it would also imo save chrono since clone death is the reason why it fails.

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  • 3 weeks later...

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:this would allow mesmers to actually use their profession mechanic in cases where its impossible and might even make chrono viable again.

good idea or no?

editinvuln wouldn't pop up on screen, clones would be like scourge shades.maybe even instead of invuln the clones could inherit the mesmers actual health at the time, vitality, and armor for 2 sec.

Suposelly since damage output will be reduced slightly o overall i would like to see clones based on x% of Mesmer vitality.

Maybe some could have 1 seconds evasion?

Believe 2 sec invulnerable is bit to strong.

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@Aeolus.3615 said:

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:this would allow mesmers to actually use their profession mechanic in cases where its impossible and might even make chrono viable again.

good idea or no?

editinvuln wouldn't pop up on screen, clones would be like scourge shades.maybe even instead of invuln the clones could inherit the mesmers actual health at the time, vitality, and armor for 2 sec.

Suposelly since damage output will be reduced slightly o overall i would like to see clones based on x% of Mesmer vitality.

Maybe some could have 1 seconds evasion?

Believe 2 sec invulnerable is bit to strong.

yeah maybe 50% of vitality and 75% of armor

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@Stand The Wall.6987 said:

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:this would allow mesmers to actually use their profession mechanic in cases where its impossible and might even make chrono viable again.

good idea or no?

editinvuln wouldn't pop up on screen, clones would be like scourge shades.maybe even instead of invuln the clones could inherit the mesmers actual health at the time, vitality, and armor for 2 sec.

Suposelly since damage output will be reduced slightly o overall i would like to see clones based on x% of Mesmer vitality.

Maybe some could have 1 seconds evasion?

Believe 2 sec invulnerable is bit to strong.

yeah maybe 50% of vitality and 75% of armor

100% armour so that real mesmer cant be found by cleaving, HP should be based upon mesmers HP to begin with.

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@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:this would allow mesmers to actually use their profession mechanic in cases where its impossible and might even make chrono viable again.

good idea or no?

editinvuln wouldn't pop up on screen, clones would be like scourge shades.maybe even instead of invuln the clones could inherit the mesmers actual health at the time, vitality, and armor for 2 sec.

Suposelly since damage output will be reduced slightly o overall i would like to see clones based on x% of Mesmer vitality.

Maybe some could have 1 seconds evasion?

Believe 2 sec invulnerable is bit to strong.

yeah maybe 50% of vitality and 75% of armor

100% armour so that real
CHRONO
cant be found by cleaving, HP should be based upon
CHRONO
HP to begin with.May be then chrono would be a little more viable than now
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@Stand The Wall.6987 said:this would allow mesmers to actually use their profession mechanic in cases where its impossible and might even make chrono viable again.

good idea or no?

editinvuln wouldn't pop up on screen, clones would be like scourge shades.maybe even instead of invuln the clones could inherit the mesmers actual health at the time, vitality, and armor for 2 sec.

I have a better idea, every time a clone/phantasm/whatever is destroyed, have the mesmer lose 25% health.

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@"VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.3618" said:

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:this would allow mesmers to actually use their profession mechanic in cases where its impossible and might even make chrono viable again.

good idea or no?

editinvuln wouldn't pop up on screen, clones would be like scourge shades.maybe even instead of invuln the clones could inherit the mesmers actual health at the time, vitality, and armor for 2 sec.

I have a better idea, every time a clone/phantasm/whatever is destroyed, have the mesmer lose 25% health.

why do you even post this nonsense ?

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@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@"VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.3618" said:

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:this would allow mesmers to actually use their profession mechanic in cases where its impossible and might even make chrono viable again.

good idea or no?

editinvuln wouldn't pop up on screen, clones would be like scourge shades.maybe even instead of invuln the clones could inherit the mesmers actual health at the time, vitality, and armor for 2 sec.

I have a better idea, every time a clone/phantasm/whatever is destroyed, have the mesmer lose 25% health.

why do you even post this nonsense ?

That would be somewhat fair.

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@Hannelore.8153 said:One thing that would help Chrono is if, for Chrono specifically, Phantasms counted towards F# skills like they used to (but not towards the limit). This would allow Chronos with good timing to gain a 2-3sec advantage on their Shatters over Core & Mirage.

you mean shattering phantasms? in what world shattering your DAMAGE for DAMAGE would be worth it lol.

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