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  • As far as I can tell, the reduction in vitality is to reduce the maximum amount of barrier we can have at any given time; our DPS on the raid golem is enough to keep it maxed out full time and our theoretical barrier without a cap would be 18000 since it lasts for 5 seconds. This more than qualifies us as a tank, and 24K is just shy of enough to make it worth using as a tank over a class that can tank as well as provide boons; scrapper tank + boon support = roughly 28K DPS, but boon tank + DPS slot = roughly 34-38K dps. They made us a truly incredible tank class, but they just...forgot to give us boons so that we could match other tanks.

  • Nephalem.8921Nephalem.8921 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Aooogah.1673 said:
    As far as I can tell, the reduction in vitality is to reduce the maximum amount of barrier we can have at any given time; our DPS on the raid golem is enough to keep it maxed out full time and our theoretical barrier without a cap would be 18000 since it lasts for 5 seconds. This more than qualifies us as a tank, and 24K is just shy of enough to make it worth using as a tank over a class that can tank as well as provide boons; scrapper tank + boon support = roughly 28K DPS, but boon tank + DPS slot = roughly 34-38K dps. They made us a truly incredible tank class, but they just...forgot to give us boons so that we could match other tanks.

    You can tank most bosses with 0 toughness. Some dont even have a tank. Also scrapper misses import chrono utility like focus pull. Thief with IP has also more selfheal than scrapper + evades for days so thief would be a better offensive tank than scrapper anyways. Same for spellbreaker with his million blocks. Currently engi has 2 melee bruiser specs and i don't really see the reason why he has them. They said holo was supposed to be glasscannon but then they gave it stuff like heat therapy which is just sustain + hla and that bubble which are better tank utilities than the ones scrapper has.
    Holo is better at sustaining than scrapper so whats the point of scrapper?

  • @Aooogah.1673 said:
    As far as I can tell, the reduction in vitality is to reduce the maximum amount of barrier we can have at any given time; our DPS on the raid golem is enough to keep it maxed out full time and our theoretical barrier without a cap would be 18000 since it lasts for 5 seconds. This more than qualifies us as a tank, and 24K is just shy of enough to make it worth using as a tank over a class that can tank as well as provide boons; scrapper tank + boon support = roughly 28K DPS, but boon tank + DPS slot = roughly 34-38K dps. They made us a truly incredible tank class, but they just...forgot to give us boons so that we could match other tanks.

    Chrono now can do 21k damage+support, who needs crappy 25k tank scrapper to ruin their dps.

  • Aooogah.1673Aooogah.1673 Member ✭✭
    edited October 12, 2019

    @Nephalem.8921
    That's the point I'm making, for scrapper to replace chrono it would either have to provide the same utility or do WAY more damage instead of just a little bit more damage. Right now it isnt worth giving up the extra DPS slot it would take to replace the lost supply of boons. Acknowledging the validity of your points about holo sustain, nevertheless there are certainly some areas, particularly in minion-heavy combat, where scrapper shines above holosmith. Heat therapy does not scale with your number of targets unlike impact savant. Add in running bulwark gyro over rifle turret, and, well, that's why you can solo captain crowe in t3-t4 sirens reef as a glass scrapper but not as a holosmith.

  • @Aooogah.1673
    back to the topic, i do try ur build on golem

    http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PeQAIlZwOYaMI2JO+KvteA-zRIYRUwXGBWAVkA2OA-e

    result was pretty amazing.
    i got like 10.8k all by myself, i also tried full zerker DH alone, got like 11.5~11.8k with high burst, result is pretty close, but scrapper has more sustain for sure!

    However

    for my personal prefer, i still love 100% quickness uptime
    since i got inspiration from @HnRkLnXqZ.1870 and @Aooogah.1673
    i combine both u guys ideas and my, to create this new build

    http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PeQAIlZwsYaMI2JO2KvteA-zRRYBh7AOKQ4lRYJQgFgaDA-e

    i also try this build on golem alone, got around 11.3k which is pretty good for me

    this build can easily maintain 100% quickness + 100% fury + 25 mights

    for quickness
    Sigil of Celerity connect with patched thunder clap, both 20s CD, 25% covered
    applied force connect with pack rune + sigil of strength + no scpoe, can easily reach 10 might in just 2 second, 30% covered
    eixiler U, 15% covered
    combine with 45% boon duration, can get 100% quickness up time pretty easy!

    for fury
    no scope, 50% covered
    pack rune, 26.6% covered
    combine with 45% boon duration, can get 100% furyup time

    for 25 mights
    sigil of strength, 14 mights covered with BD
    no scope, 3 mights covered with BD
    hammer AA, 8 mights covered with BD + quickness which make attack speed faster, should be least 12 or more mights for sure

    this build got vital boost from big boomer, make sustain even higher
    eixler U also provide 8 sec of stability, so u won't be cc'ed when u try to do the opening burst
    also, pack rune provide swiftness and 5 mights to make sure we get applied force ASAP from the beginning of the fight

    for sustain
    cleave damage is pretty good from thunder clap and spin gyro, barrier can easily be max out for sure
    also, we won't use hammer 3 for damage anymore, can use it for leap in water combo to get more healing

    in conclusion
    this build is well balanced between maxout DPS and sustain
    i love it very much, hope u guys like it!

    thanks for watch

  • Hello @HnRkLnXqZ.1870
    I was wondering how your builds changed since your last post (in October) now that we had another patch.
    Any major change? I'm going to equip an Engi and play Scrapper for a solo PVE journey (Story, Map completion, LS, Dungeons...) and while I would love to experiment with all the things, I don't have enough time (any fake money) to even play regularly.
    Having a solid base to start would be a huge help for me. :)

  • HnRkLnXqZ.1870HnRkLnXqZ.1870 Member ✭✭✭✭

    The adjustments of the hammer-damage went quite well. The barrier-gain is finally enough to survive most encounters again.

    PVE Scrapper (current version)
    It is basically the standard Chronomancer-Rune build, with the recent Diviner's adjustments:

    • Amulet + 2x Rings = Diviner
    • Rest of the gear-stats is your choice

    I run Marauder's on those pieces, because of the vitality-boost (Scrapper still eats 150 Vitality) and the precision-boost. The cheap Sigil of Celerity helps to maintain permanent quickness, together with Applied Force (when might stack is 10 or higher), Chronomancer-Runes upon using a Well/Gyro and Kinetic Battery. Quickness uptime is a little more than 100%, which allows you to improvise in the fight, instead of just burning down a monotonous rotation.

    Currently, I replaced Elixir H with the Medic Gyro which turns out to be really nice. The waterfields from the Gyro itself and the Toolbelt can be used with the Rocket Charge (Hammer 3) to trigger additional heals when needed. The good old Leap-Finisher + Waterfield Combo which results in 1,300 instant heal per leap. The protection-pulse from the toolbelt is good to mitigate damage when the blocks are on cooldown and barrier is running low.

    Reactive Lenses in Tools traitline is not a must have. I run it, as it gives me additional safety. But you will have so much stability at your disposal, you can freely pick Static Discharge instead. The RL come in handy whenever something attacks by surprise or you get bombarded by CC attacks.

    Hints:

    • You can always start the fight with Thunderclap (Hammer 5) to stun your targets and trigger the Quickness from the Superior Sigil of Celerity. The cooldown of the skill is exactly the same as the cooldown of the sigil. So you always get quickness when you use that skill.
    • Use Rocket Charge inside that Lightning Field to trigger the first Superspeed buffs, quickly equip/unequip the motar for Swiftness + Vigor. Add Elixir U and start beating your foes with the hammer. The damage is good, even when you do not have all multipliers at your disposal.
    • Try to attack several mobs at once, if there are trashmobs nearby, lure them to you with a motar shot or just kite the other mobs to them. The more targets, the more barrier.
    • Use Bulwark Gyro always with Shock Shield, when you are in desperate need of barrier or to just deal more damage. The reason is simple, the Bulwark Gyro drains damage from surrounding allies. The Shock Shield is a real block, which means the damage-absorption will not harm you. On the other hand you stack up a huge chunk of barrier in quick time. This can be helpful when you are running low on HP and both the toolbelt and Medic Gyro have longer cooldowns. It is also very nice to tank massive AoE attacks in meta-events, helping the other players to survive a lethal attack.
    • Function Gyro in this build is a Stability source and a Lightning Field. So if you are in need of any of those and the other skills are on cooldown, feel free to use it as a buff/utility-skill.
    • If you feel overwhelmed by damage in a story-mission, you can swap Alchemy HGH for Iron Blooded. The damage reduction can add up to 10-12 % easily. As said above, the quickness uptime is above 100 %, so you should be able to maintain it even without HGH.
    • When using the Blast Gyro to buff up might for allies, make sure to dodge out right before the big boom. The knockback can be really annoying on enemies which have no breakbar. You can also abuse the knockback to concentrate the mobs on a single spot or push them against a wall to increase the number of enemies you can hit with your auto-attacks. (I use this method in the Bjora Marches Metaevent, when defending the shrines)
    • You have a total of three water-fields: Medic Gyro, Medic Gyro toolbelt = Reconstruction Field, Motar Kit (5) = Elixir Shell. You can gain additional heals by either directing the Blast Gyros boom into them or by using the Rocket Charge in them.
    • Underwater Combat, Capture Line (skill 3) is a CC attack, which triggers the Sigil of Celerity. The cooldown is really low. If you camp a kit under water (I use grenades), you can just unequip the kit when all skills (kit & toolbelt) are on cooldown. In most cases, I have reached the sigil-cooldown by then and can trigger it again.
    • Kinetic Battery, quickness and superspeed trigger when you have 5 charges. Charges only add up while in combat. So avoid using toolbelt skills OOC. Bypass Coating (Blast Gyro toolbelt) is an excellent stunbreaker.

    In terms of survival and fun, I cannot complain. It works well for the situations you have listed.

    PS: I think I remember that account name. If my guess is correct, regards to the other one o/. This is Caine btw.

    In addition, credo quod ArcDPS interdictum debere.
  • Hello Caine,
    you remember absolutely right ;) the other one says hi as well!

    Sadly real life took over so I have to come to terms with available time.
    Sometimes is few hours during a week, some other times is none for weeks. Obviously we miss you all!

    Thanks for the tips, those are really helpful for getting a broad grasp on the style of playing. As you can see I've finally decided to enjoy a grown man class :P
    I've played a little yesterday and I found out that when I have the correct buffs up, everything melts, otherwise I find myself swinging the hammer and skills for few secs even for trash.
    That's fine though since in all my testing I didn't worry about my HPs at all... Gyros are fun and I've seen that they are now wells, so that's nice.

    I've noticed only one thing that didn't quite looked right. Rocket Charge inside a water field seems to trigger only twice. I can see the animation for AoE Heals only during the first and the third blast.
    Hard to see if it is triggering on the second as well, I suspect that there is some internal cooldown? But I might be totally wrong on this.

    Also I just need to get over some ugliness with the medium armor and hammers, but other than that I'm really enjoying it, so thanks!
    I know how much you've played this class, so I'm quite confident in following your advice (almost) blindly :P

    All the best,
    G

  • HnRkLnXqZ.1870HnRkLnXqZ.1870 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 17, 2019

    I only try to have fun in GW2 with the class I enjoy most. Thank you for your turst, I hope you will not regret it.

    Regarding the waterfield-combo with Rocket Charge, you are correct. The skill includes 3 separate leaps/impacts, but only 2 separate Leap Finishers. As far as I remember, 3 Leap Finishers were considered too overpowered, especially in combination with a water-field. Even with 0 Healing Power, 3 x 1,300 HP = 3,900 HP. This is almost as much as a weak healing skill. Some other classes barely manage to heal 4-5k with their healing skills. Recovering almost 4k with just an attack-combo is a lot. From my experience, the 2,600 are already worth it.

    Regarding looks, there are some decent options to make medium-armor look like heavy or robes. I'm currently a bit short in time, but I will add a few examples soon. About Hammers, there are really nice ones. I personally recommend the Juggernaut XD (Legendary) as it turns every armor-skin into a shiny metal armor. It depends a little on your preferences, but it should be possible to satisfy almost every taste nowadays.

    If your Engineer is an Asura, I made a couple of suggestions in >this thread<. Most of the skins are easy to acquire.

    In addition, credo quod ArcDPS interdictum debere.
  • @HnRkLnXqZ.1870 said:
    I only try to have fun in GW2 with the class I enjoy most. Thank you for your turst, I hope you will not regret it.

    On the fashion side, I'm playing human female, I couldn't spot much "heavy" feeling on that type sadly... I've seen one that I liked (Aetherblade) but it's gem store :(

    On the build side, I found a couple of possible things that are a little annoying to me, but I don't know how to fix them... yet. Mind you that these are just impressions after having played with this type of build for a whole 3 hours... So take them more as a "I'm try to understand this" instead of "this build sucks " :)

    • Quickness uptime it's not mindless to get and it doesn't feel it lasts enough. I need combos and that leads to a rotation. I'm aware I'm not talking here about hardcore rotations, but still swinging the hammer like a warrior doesn't work :grimace:
    • Might is not "that" easy to come by, I need to hit multiple targets. On single target, might generation is not great. I was fine when I was using Runes of Strength + Sigil of Strength (easy 25 might every fight), but switching to Chronomancer+Celerity I'm hardly seeing those results. I've seen 25 might when engaging with 3+ enemies and the fight lasted more that 8 secs. I'm sure that being new to this, I'm doing something very wrong, I'm still trying to find that out though
    • I feel like I'm not critting much and I'm in full Zerk right now (slowly switching to the suggested marauder+diviner), that is even less if I switch from Reactive Lenses to Static Discharge, I lose that little fury uptime that helps a lot in my opinion but it's not on demand.

    Quickness is great but it would be better if I had the possibility to hit harder while hitting faster. Survivability is good and barrier is nice, still need to avoid those hits from Legendary Crazed Enemies :P

  • HnRkLnXqZ.1870HnRkLnXqZ.1870 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 18, 2019

    I am always happy about feedback and suggestions. It is the best way to improve, sometimes I just think a little too complicated. I am sorry for the huge chunk of text, but I have to go a little into detail. While the build is rather simple, the mechanics and synergies can be a bit confusing. I try to explain it as simple as possible.

    Note: This took longer than expected ^^.

    Might & Quickness
    ... are tied together in this build. In order to keep quickness stable, you need to maintain a minimum of 10 stacks all the time. This gets achieved by:

    • auto-attack chain of the hammer
    • every stack of stability generates additional might every second. Mass Momentum is the trait responsible for that.
    • Blast Gyro, 4 pulses with 2 might-stacks each (4x2 = 8)
    • Elixir U and its toolbelt both generate two stacks

    As you have noticed in your early post, the more buffs you have, the better your performance is. Maintaining stability is key in this build. It protects you from CC skills and helps you keeping your might-stacks on a healthy level. Stability can be acquired:

    • Elixir U, can be used at the beginning of the fight and whenever it is ready again.
    • Function Gyro
    • Defense Field (Bulwark Gyro Toolbelt)

    Especially the Defense Field should not be seen as a projectile dome only. It comes in handy against mobs with ranged attacks, but for the majority of the time you can use it to generate stability (=> might) during combat phases you are short in stability. Try to maintain stability almost permanently.

    Damage Multipliers
    When everything works well, you can have access to a total of + 25 % damage output and 200 power extra. Sadly, compared to other classes, unlocking those multipliers is a little tricky. Which multipliers do we have?

      • 5 % damage, while having stability (see above)
      • 5 % damage, while having Swiftness
      • 5 % damage, while having superspeed
      • 10 % damage, while having vigor
      • 200 power, while having quickness (see above)

    Swiftness
    The good old Engineer 101 routine with Streamlined Kits. Upon swapping to Motar Kit, you gain 27 seconds of Swiftness. The trait has a cooldown of 20 seconds and you get an indicator (buff icon) in your buff-list whenever the cooldown is over. So you can maintain 100 % Swiftness uptime, just with that. In addition, the Streamlined Kits also generates a Drop Gunk, which gives a random debuff to your surrounding opponents and does very low damage.

    Superspeed
    This is the first tricky part. Superspeed also enhances your running speed, but better than swiftness. Superspeed does NOT stack duration. Which means if you buff it 3x in a row, Superspeed will have the duration of the last buff applied. That means, if you first buff one with 3 seconds duration and then one with 1 second duration, you end up with 1 second duration.

    So maintaining this buff requires some work and creativity. Blast Gyro's toolbelt Bypass Coating and Throw Elixir U (both toolbelt skills) cast 3 Seconds of Superspeed each. After using 5 toolbelt skills in a row, you get another 5 seconds of Superspeed. The Blast Gyro casts 5 seconds. Using the Rocket Charge casts 5 seconds per Leap Finisher.

    You can create a chain of Superspeed, which allows you an extended phase with the + 5 % damage multiplier, but you will have breaks without access to Superspeed. There are variations to increase the number of sources of superspeed by replacing Mass Momentum with Gyroscopic Acceleration. However this would mess up one of your major might sources, with this build.

    Vigor
    Thanks to Invigorating Speed from the Alchemy traitline, you gain vigor upon casting swiftness on yourself - 7 seconds.
    In addition, every of your toolbelt skills buffs 2.5 seconds of vigor.
    So you can maintain ~ 17 seconds until Streamlined Kits is ready again. You can however max the vigor up to 100 %, by replacing the Medic Gyro with Elixir H. If you play more offensive, this might be a better option anyway. As the Elixir H and its toolbelt get you another two might-stacks each.

    Damage and Criticals
    The build I linked is optimized for my personal needs, you asked for the version I currently use. My personal priority is on survivability, tanking and supporting allies. I am not really good when it comes to making DPS builds. All of my builds are usually weaker in terms of damage.

    The Superior Rune of Strength grants an additional + 5 % damage increase when you have might = always. When switching to Chronomancer Runes, you obviously lose that multiplier. You can stay on Zerk stats if you feel comfortable with that. The difference on Marauder's stats (except for the 3 Diviner's pieces) makes
    ~ 7 % crit chance (more)
    4,400 HP (more)
    ~ 15 % Crit Power (less)

    Why more HP? The amount of barrier we can obtain is capped at 50 % of our maximum HP. On a Scrapper + 4,400 HP would result in 6,600 damage points. This is an incredible increase and also the reason why choosing Scrapper results in -150 Vitality XD. At the beginning this was horrible, as we never managed to fill the barrier pool. But after the last balances, it is now possible and works as it should.

    Fury
    With the patch of last night, the Utility Goggles are finally done. We do no longer get Fury upon activating them and Reactive Lenses (trait) also does no longer trigger Fury. That is a huge drawback, but some people had the opinion that UG were completely useless and deserved to be dumped.

    Alternatives?
    You could use a modification of my October's Furious Build. This strategy has a couple of annoying weakpoints. You lose stability, what makes you vulnerable to CC attacks. You lose some power. On the other hand you can start with 60 % crit chance and almost 220 % crit power. With a good fury uptime (100 %) you can make it 80 % crit chance. But with only 2k power ... :S.

    You could run a modification with Eagle Runes, replacing two Gyros with Elixirs. More might sources, better fury uptime, + 10 % damage on foes with < 50 % HP. Quickness uptime should be almost 100 %.

    Heavy armor appearances


    With correct dyes, some can look very tanky. All of these use Shoulders, Gloves & Boots of the Rubicon Armor. That can be obtained from Orr Karma vendors in the temples. Those pieces are quite bulky and help making an armor-skin look more heavy. For Leggings, the standard Studded Pants, which can be bought straight from TP for very little money (you should have that skin already). The chest pieces from left to right are: Vigil's Honor Jerkin, Bladed Jerkin and Elonian Jerkin.

    In addition, credo quod ArcDPS interdictum debere.
  • HnRkLnXqZ.1870HnRkLnXqZ.1870 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 5, 2020

    It has been a while again. The huge balance-patch arrived and the aftermath fixes as well. As expected, what worked before, still works. I got a few requests about the new Explosives traitline. Ran a couple of tests. Sadly, the condition-scrapper is still not a real option, as the Scrapper traitline is still 100 % power-damage :S. For those who are still interested:

    Rocketeer
    A modification of my original PVE Scrapper. You can keep the trinket & backpiece with the amulet + 2x ring Diviner stats. It runs on Strength Runes with a Superior Sigil of Celerity and a Superior Sigil of Strength.

    It can be played ranged and melee, but it is designed for ranged. You can camp the Motar Kit all time and just use your different motar-shells and your toolbelt skills. When in ranged-mode, you can play it with a single hand (left) and just aim with the mouse. It is a good build to assist melee players, fight bosses on longer range and farm mob groups. I use it in larger meta-events that involve plenty of mobs, like the Specimen Chamber pre-event. It also works great on the Inquest Golem Mark II, Hablion and the Bloodstone Charged Lava Wurm. The more I use it, the more I enjoy it. It is a fun-build, far away from being efficient like the meta.

    RANGED

    Before you start fighting, you should know the area of the battle a little. As you can see from the skill-bar, we use the Rocket Turret. That means we need a spot where it can shoot freely without getting destroyed too quickly. Thanks to mounts, reaching such spots is not a real problem. Due to its attack-range, you can also place it at your location if you want, or just a few meters in front of that.

    We are constantly rotating through our toolbelt skills, which charges up the Kinetic Battery (= quickness) and with the Personal Battering Ram toolbelt, we cc our opponents (= more quickness). It is a fun CC with a range of 900. Toss Elixir U and Function Gyro should be placed at your location, that is why you need a hand on the mouse constantly. To quickly change between your target and your location.

    You can spam the auto-attack or use the different motar-shells. It is more fun, to place the different combo-fields at your location and bombard the enemies with modified auto-attack motar-shells. Feel free to use the Heal Skill (Bandage Self) as often as you want. It is nice for charging up Kinetic Battery and it heals for a lot. Use Elixir U whenever it is ready.

    MELEE

    Depending on how much time you have to react, you either have to switch while in combat or can adjust a few things. Just switch the Personal Battering Ram for the Shredder Gyro, Rocket Turret for Thrown Mine, Aim Assisted Rocket for Explosive Temper and Takedown Round for Streamlined Kits.

    These changes allow you to be more focused on closer range attacks. The Shredder Gyro is great for mob-groups or to charge up your barrier when the enemy is about to dish out lots of damage. Explosive Temper boosts your damage significantly and Streamlined Kits allows you, as with the old build, to stack up Swiftness with the Motarkit, which adds another +5 % damage multiplier.

    You can and should dodge a lot to utilize Explosive Entrance. Thrown Mine and especially the toolbelt of it will help you to keep Explosive Temper charges up for burst-phases. Use the toolbelts as you like. You are permanently on 25 might stacks and almost permanent quickness (as long as you keep fighting).

    Notes:

    • You can unlock the 5 % damage multiplier from Swiftness if you use a Spring Roll
    • In melee, the Superior Sigil of Strength is a bit of an overkill. We have a weaponswap option now. In motar/ranged-mode you could wield a Rifle with the Strength Sigil and the Celerity Sigil. While in melee-mode, you can use the hammer with the Celerity Sigil and a Superior Sigil of Force.
    • If you run Rifle instead of Hammer, you can also replace the Personal Battering Ram with Bulwark Gyro. This allows you to maintain more stability, and grants you access to the projectile-dome to block incoming ranged attacks. In addition you can use it as an OH NO! button, when you run out of HP. In addition it grants you a lightning field, which empowers your motar-shells with vulnerability. That works, because the Rifle skill 2 Net Shot has a range of 1,200 and also triggers the Superior Sigil of Celerity.
    • DPS against the golem with exotic gear (except for trinkets & backpiece) varied around 6,300 - 6,500 on both versions. Tested with Assassin stats. As with all my builds, you are free to pick your stats as you please. It depends on your rotations and how much you want to move. The ranged build can create almost 6,300 DPS even without utilizing Explosive Entrance at all, which is not bad. But again, not in competition with the meta-builds.

    [EDIT] I was able to give the melee-build a test with some Strike Missions. For the first time ever, I was able to reach the barrier-capacity in combat and maintain it almost the entire time. I know the build is a little different from my other approaches and looks strange at first, but it works. The damage & barrier generation work best with enemy groups and large (hitbox) opponents.

    In addition, credo quod ArcDPS interdictum debere.