Rampage changes.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

@Opopanax.1803 said:

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@Lighter.5631 said:surprise surprise, hammer and mace used to be condi weapon untill they removed confusion from merciless hammer in 2018

mace/sword lb carrion was the build.

At this point I'd take it back along with some more bleed stacks on Body Blow if they nerf CC power scaling completely.

i take any core condi build back...

That would require them to rework flurry, riposte, and impale, and seeing that they want to ramp numbers down soon, they may end up be the best of the worst...

[Lighter.5631]

@RedShark.9548 said:

@Lighter.5631 said:

@RedShark.9548 said:

@Lighter.5631 said:surprise surprise, hammer and mace used to be condi weapon untill they removed confusion from merciless hammer in 2018

mace/sword lb carrion was the build.

Suprise suprise nobody played a condi hammer specc, it was played as power weapon and nobody took that trait.

surprise surprise, carrion hambow was played in duels.

Not in wvw lol.I only remember hambow being played as power specc in pvp, that was also longer than 2 years ago.

Also, that trait didnt exist (the confusion part) when the game was released, so even yeeears before hambow (i dont think even there nobody played the trait tbh) was a thing, hammer was a power weapon.

And distracting strike wasnt used by the hambow build i remember.

confusion part from distracting strike is there since beginning and distracting strike only had that effect since the beginning.and ofc power hambow wouldnt run distracting strike, because it's a condition trait, and warrior wouldnt run without defense in 5v5 because focus and thieves.so it's only played in duels where it's stronger then most.it's like how PU condi mes was never played in any 5v5 but it was played all over in duels.

@Red Haired Savage.5430 said:

@Lighter.5631 said:

@Red Haired Savage.5430 said:

@Lighter.5631 said:

@RedShark.9548 said:

@Lighter.5631 said:surprise surprise, hammer and mace used to be condi weapon untill they removed confusion from merciless hammer in 2018

mace/sword lb carrion was the build.

Suprise suprise nobody played a condi hammer specc, it was played as power weapon and nobody took that trait.

surprise surprise, carrion hambow was played in duels.

Of the hambow builds I can find I'm not seeing carrion, or merciless hammer.

https://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Warrior_-_Hambow

https://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Warrior_-_Mercenary_Hambow

Here's also a Vaanss build, with a link to the build in the video description.

They also didn't add confusion to merciless hammer until the August 8, 2017 update long after hambow.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Merciless_Hammer/history

im only using the name merciless hammer because the build existed before merciless hammer and it was distracting strike which was later merged with merciless hammer.

i seriously can't understand how you can't find anything tbh, lol. i only did one search and it's there.

the difference is just people ran lb in pvp instead of the sword/shield in video because you didn't need the mobility.

the builds are super old, like

https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/32v4zy/perplexity_warrior_build/

the link to the build that is connected to the old forum is actually lost.

and i did farther research and here

https://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Warrior_-_Macebow

https://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Warrior_-_Carrion_CC

Without the hammer or the longbow it's not hambow it's a condition warrior build, and that appears to be one of the cheesy perplexity rune builds people used to run.

Might be time for you to find an internet time machine, not very many things that end up on the internet ever end up actually lost:

https://web.archive.org/web/20170917024057/https://forum-en.guildwars2.com/forum/professions/warrior/WvW-Roaming-Build-Condition-Interrupt

it's completely swappable from macebow to hambow condi, it's less effective then macebow but it's completely playable and better then most warrior build at the time for duels. then it's after hambow got nerfed, which also hit condi hambow.btw condi hambow beats hambow in duels, only it didnt make meta, because warriors required full defense for passive endure pain so they don't get jumped by thief and insta dies and needed sustain against mutiple people focus. and also required full discipline.

like if u look at hambows set, it's completely playable with carrion. most people don't know because they only follow meta.again, hambow is played with soldier only because warrior lacks sustain in group fight and thieves gank

[RedShark.9548]

@Lighter.5631 said:

@RedShark.9548 said:

@Lighter.5631 said:

@RedShark.9548 said:

@Lighter.5631 said:surprise surprise, hammer and mace used to be condi weapon untill they removed confusion from merciless hammer in 2018

mace/sword lb carrion was the build.

Suprise suprise nobody played a condi hammer specc, it was played as power weapon and nobody took that trait.

surprise surprise, carrion hambow was played in duels.

Not in wvw lol.I only remember hambow being played as power specc in pvp, that was also longer than 2 years ago.

Also, that trait didnt exist (the confusion part) when the game was released, so even yeeears before hambow (i dont think even there nobody played the trait tbh) was a thing, hammer was a power weapon.

And distracting strike wasnt used by the hambow build i remember.

confusion part from distracting strike is there since beginning and distracting strike only had that effect since the beginning.and ofc power hambow wouldnt run distracting strike, because it's a condition trait, and warrior wouldnt run without defense in 5v5 because focus and thieves.so it's only played in duels where it's stronger then most.it's like how PU condi mes was never played in any 5v5 but it was played all over in duels.

@Red Haired Savage.5430 said:

@Lighter.5631 said:

@Red Haired Savage.5430 said:

@Lighter.5631 said:

@RedShark.9548 said:

@Lighter.5631 said:surprise surprise, hammer and mace used to be condi weapon untill they removed confusion from merciless hammer in 2018

mace/sword lb carrion was the build.

Suprise suprise nobody played a condi hammer specc, it was played as power weapon and nobody took that trait.

surprise surprise, carrion hambow was played in duels.

Of the hambow builds I can find I'm not seeing carrion, or merciless hammer.

https://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Warrior_-_Hambow

https://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Warrior_-_Mercenary_Hambow

Here's also a Vaanss build, with a link to the build in the video description.

They also didn't add confusion to merciless hammer until the August 8, 2017 update long after hambow.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Merciless_Hammer/history

im only using the name merciless hammer because the build existed before merciless hammer and it was distracting strike which was later merged with merciless hammer.

i seriously can't understand how you can't find anything tbh, lol. i only did one search and it's there.

the difference is just people ran lb in pvp instead of the sword/shield in video because you didn't need the mobility.

the builds are super old, like

https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/32v4zy/perplexity_warrior_build/

the link to the build that is connected to the old forum is actually lost.

and i did farther research and here

https://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Warrior_-_Macebow

https://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Warrior_-_Carrion_CC

Without the hammer or the longbow it's not hambow it's a condition warrior build, and that appears to be one of the cheesy perplexity rune builds people used to run.

Might be time for you to find an internet time machine, not very many things that end up on the internet ever end up actually lost:

https://web.archive.org/web/20170917024057/https://forum-en.guildwars2.com/forum/professions/warrior/WvW-Roaming-Build-Condition-Interrupt

it's completely swappable from macebow to hambow condi, it's less effective then macebow but it's completely playable and better then most warrior build at the time for duels. then it's after hambow got nerfed, which also hit condi hambow.btw condi hambow beats hambow in duels, only it didnt make meta, because warriors required full defense for passive endure pain so they don't get jumped by thief and insta dies and needed sustain against mutiple people focus. and also required full discipline.

like if u look at hambows set, it's completely playable with carrion. most people don't know because they only follow meta.again, hambow is played with soldier only because warrior lacks sustain in group fight and thieves gank

Like i said in my previous post distracting strike did exist before, but nit fused with merciless hammer, and like you said, it wasnt used at all, because it wasnt good enough and defense was just better, but that doesnt matter "coule have done that, if..."

I never saw anybod duel with that tbh.All i saw were mostly gs+axe/shieldAnd some ppl, including me, using hammer gs.

In wvw pre hot i used to roam gs+ hammer with full soldier gear and had enough dmg to kill stuff

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

The problem with the old Distracting Strikes was that it required you to actually interrupt someone, so you'd never end up using it truly for condi. Body Blow at least applies weakness and bleed when you hit with a hard CC independent of an interrupt occurring. If they completely nerf the power scaling on hard CC, then bringing the confusion back onto Merciless Hammer and making it work on hard CC's rather than interrupts would be a good move.

[RedShark.9548]

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:The problem with the old Distracting Strikes was that it required you to actually interrupt someone, so you'd never end up using it truly for condi. Body Blow at least applies weakness and bleed when you hit with a hard CC independent of an interrupt occurring. If they completely nerf the power scaling on hard CC, then bringing the confusion back onto Merciless Hammer and making it work on hard CC's rather than interrupts would be a good move.

Can we fix the weapon instead of turning it into some condi kitten via traits?

Lets be real, when you get hit with a big kitten hammer and a skill thats literally called backbreaker, you wont just be confused, you will feel the dmg straight up, not over time.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

@RedShark.9548 said:

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:The problem with the old Distracting Strikes was that it required you to actually interrupt someone, so you'd never end up using it truly for condi. Body Blow at least applies weakness and bleed when you hit with a hard CC independent of an interrupt occurring. If they completely nerf the power scaling on hard CC, then bringing the confusion back onto Merciless Hammer and making it work on hard CC's rather than interrupts would be a good move.

Can we fix the weapon instead of turning it into some condi kitten via traits?

Lets be real, when you get hit with a big kitten hammer and a skill thats literally called backbreaker, you wont just be confused, you will feel the dmg straight up, not over time.

Tell that to Anet who wants to nerf hard CC power scaling.

[Fueki.4753]

Revert Rampage nerfs and gives player in PvP a break bar.Problem solvedAll CC needs shaving in PvP anyway.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

@Fueki.4753 said:Revert Rampage nerfs and gives player in PvP a break bar.Problem solvedAll CC needs shaving in PvP anyway.

Wasn't part of the problem of Rampage that Peak Performance overboosted it's damage? Put an icd on PP.

[Fueki.4753]

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@Fueki.4753 said:Revert Rampage nerfs and gives player in PvP a break bar.Problem solvedAll CC needs shaving in PvP anyway.

Wasn't part of the problem of Rampage that Peak Performance overboosted it's damage? Put an icd on PP.

It's an Elite skill, it's supposed to be powerful.Just look at that Daggerstorm with it evade time. Shouldn't it's damage be nerfed into nothingness, too?Since Utility and damage aren't be on the same skill, shouldn't Daggerstorm damage be nerfed into nothingness, too?

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

@Fueki.4753 said:

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@Fueki.4753 said:Revert Rampage nerfs and gives player in PvP a break bar.Problem solvedAll CC needs shaving in PvP anyway.

Wasn't part of the problem of Rampage that Peak Performance overboosted it's damage? Put an icd on PP.

It's an Elite skill, it's supposed to be powerful.Just look at that Daggerstorm with it evade time. Shouldn't it's damage be nerfed into nothingness, too?Since Utility and damage aren't be on the same skill, shouldn't Daggerstorm damage be nerfed into nothingness, too?

Personally I think the evade frames on Daggerstorm should be removed. They weren't there originally anyway. But then I out dpsed a thief back then with sword auto attacks on zerker gear while he used it so /shrug.

Anet has implicated though that they are looking at everything especially those that do too much. You can probably lump DS into that basket.

[Curennos.9307]

Daggerstorm is a single skill on one of the squishiest classes in the game when not evading or stealthed. It's nowhere near equivalent to rampage, before or after the nerfs.

Rampage would also probably be a little more fine if there wasn't so much extra damage flying around on spellbreaker, too, but that's a whole 'nother story.

Still - equating daggerstorm, which got its evade because thieves impode if you get a solid hit on them, to rampage - an elite xform skill that either requires large amounts of defensive resources to deal with or multiple players (read - massive amounts of damage) to make the trade not worth it to the warr - is...a wildly disjointed comparison.

You can't even remove the evade from DS and just replace it with pulsing stability. The thief would still get nuked. It just lets the thief dish out AA levels of damage, or slightly higher, in relative safety (soft/hard counters like retal/line ward notwithstanding).

It's nowhere near the level of....gravity that a rampaging warrior has.

I'm curious as to what people think is an adequate amount of defensive resources a class might have to dedicate in order to safely deal with an opponent's elite skill. I tend to go with 'one dodge' - both in movement and the evade. Thief's impact strike is well negated if you dodge (or blind, or...etcetc) any of its strikes. Daggerstorm damage isn't too threatening - I usually just wait a bit, maybe use projectile negation if I have a cheap source(this isn't even required)- and then set up my CC to land at the end of it.

Rampage has two CCs you really should mitigate somehow, otherwise you'll face a hard hitting follow up in the form of AAs or the gap closer (which also deals a ton of damage). Heck, even the AAs themselves have pretty dodge-worthy damage.

What's a good level of investment for dealing with an elite skill? One dodge? One dodge plus utility skill (stunbreak or some sort of mobility to help run away)? I have always found rampage to require MUCH more investment to deal with than any other elite skill in a pvp setting.

Edit: DOn't get me wrong, I hate the current state of Daggerstorm. But to compare it to rampage, as if DS has anywhere near the sort of battle presence a rampaging warrior does, is horribly wrong. The two are vastly different, both in the power of the skills themselves and how they're designed to mesh with the class that uses 'em.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

@Curennos.9307 said:Daggerstorm is a single skill on one of the squishiest classes in the game when not evading or stealthed. It's nowhere near equivalent to rampage, before or after the nerfs.

Rampage would also probably be a little more fine if there wasn't so much extra damage flying around on spellbreaker, too, but that's a whole 'nother story.

Still - equating daggerstorm, which got its evade because thieves impode if you get a solid hit on them, to rampage - an elite xform skill that either requires large amounts of defensive resources to deal with or multiple players (read - massive amounts of damage) to make the trade not worth it to the warr - is...a wildly disjointed comparison.

You can't even remove the evade from DS and just replace it with pulsing stability. The thief would still get nuked. It just lets the thief dish out AA levels of damage, or slightly higher, in relative safety (soft/hard counters like retal/line ward notwithstanding).

It's nowhere near the level of....gravity that a rampaging warrior has.

I'm curious as to what people think is an adequate amount of defensive resources a class might have to dedicate in order to safely deal with an opponent's elite skill. I tend to go with 'one dodge' - both in movement and the evade. Thief's impact strike is well negated if you dodge (or blind, or...etcetc) any of its strikes. Daggerstorm damage isn't too threatening - I usually just wait a bit, maybe use projectile negation if I have a cheap source(this isn't even required)- and then set up my CC to land at the end of it.

Rampage has two CCs you really should mitigate somehow, otherwise you'll face a hard hitting follow up in the form of AAs or the gap closer (which also deals a ton of damage). Heck, even the AAs themselves have pretty dodge-worthy damage.

What's a good level of investment for dealing with an elite skill? One dodge? One dodge plus utility skill (stunbreak or some sort of mobility to help run away)? I have always found rampage to require MUCH more investment to deal with than any other elite skill in a pvp setting.

Edit: DOn't get me wrong, I hate the current state of Daggerstorm. But to compare it to rampage, as if DS has anywhere near the sort of battle presence a rampaging warrior does, is horribly wrong. The two are vastly different, both in the power of the skills themselves and how they're designed to mesh with the class that uses 'em.

Don't think either of us were actually equating the two there mate.

[Curennos.9307]

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@Curennos.9307 said:Daggerstorm is a single skill on one of the squishiest classes in the game when not evading or stealthed. It's nowhere near equivalent to rampage, before or after the nerfs.

Rampage would also probably be a little more fine if there wasn't so much extra damage flying around on spellbreaker, too, but that's a whole 'nother story.

Still - equating daggerstorm, which got its evade because thieves impode if you get a solid hit on them, to rampage - an elite xform skill that either requires large amounts of defensive resources to deal with or multiple players (read - massive amounts of damage) to make the trade not worth it to the warr - is...a wildly disjointed comparison.

You can't even remove the evade from DS and just replace it with pulsing stability. The thief would still get nuked. It just lets the thief dish out AA levels of damage, or slightly higher, in relative safety (soft/hard counters like retal/line ward notwithstanding).

It's nowhere near the level of....gravity that a rampaging warrior has.

I'm curious as to what people think is an adequate amount of defensive resources a class might have to dedicate in order to safely deal with an opponent's elite skill. I tend to go with 'one dodge' - both in movement and the evade. Thief's impact strike is well negated if you dodge (or blind, or...etcetc) any of its strikes. Daggerstorm damage isn't too threatening - I usually just wait a bit, maybe use projectile negation if I have a cheap source(this isn't even required)- and then set up my CC to land at the end of it.

Rampage has two CCs you really should mitigate somehow, otherwise you'll face a hard hitting follow up in the form of AAs or the gap closer (which also deals a ton of damage). Heck, even the AAs themselves have pretty dodge-worthy damage.

What's a good level of investment for dealing with an elite skill? One dodge? One dodge plus utility skill (stunbreak or some sort of mobility to help run away)? I have always found rampage to require MUCH more investment to deal with than any other elite skill in a pvp setting.

Edit: DOn't get me wrong, I hate the current state of Daggerstorm. But to compare it to rampage, as if DS has anywhere near the sort of battle presence a rampaging warrior does, is horribly wrong. The two are vastly different, both in the power of the skills themselves and how they're designed to mesh with the class that uses 'em.

Don't think either of us were actually equating the two there mate.

@Fueki.4753 said:

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@Fueki.4753 said:Revert Rampage nerfs and gives player in PvP a break bar.Problem solvedAll CC needs shaving in PvP anyway.

Wasn't part of the problem of Rampage that Peak Performance overboosted it's damage? Put an icd on PP.

It's an Elite skill, it's supposed to be powerful.

Just look at that Daggerstorm with it evade time. Shouldn't it's damage be nerfed into nothingness, too?Since Utility and damage aren't be on the same skill,

shouldn't Daggerstorm damage be nerfed into nothingness, too?

Apologies if this was meant as tongue in cheek.

[Sobx.1758]

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@Curennos.9307 said:Daggerstorm is a single skill on one of the squishiest classes in the game when not evading or stealthed. It's nowhere near equivalent to rampage, before or after the nerfs.

Rampage would also probably be a little more fine if there wasn't so much extra damage flying around on spellbreaker, too, but that's a whole 'nother story.

Still - equating daggerstorm, which got its evade because thieves impode if you get a solid hit on them, to rampage - an elite xform skill that either requires large amounts of defensive resources to deal with or multiple players (read - massive amounts of damage) to make the trade not worth it to the warr - is...a wildly disjointed comparison.

You can't even remove the evade from DS and just replace it with pulsing stability. The thief would still get nuked. It just lets the thief dish out AA levels of damage, or slightly higher, in relative safety (soft/hard counters like retal/line ward notwithstanding).

It's nowhere near the level of....gravity that a rampaging warrior has.

I'm curious as to what people think is an adequate amount of defensive resources a class might have to dedicate in order to safely deal with an opponent's elite skill. I tend to go with 'one dodge' - both in movement and the evade. Thief's impact strike is well negated if you dodge (or blind, or...etcetc) any of its strikes. Daggerstorm damage isn't too threatening - I usually just wait a bit, maybe use projectile negation if I have a cheap source(this isn't even required)- and then set up my CC to land at the end of it.

Rampage has two CCs you really should mitigate somehow, otherwise you'll face a hard hitting follow up in the form of AAs or the gap closer (which also deals a ton of damage). Heck, even the AAs themselves have pretty dodge-worthy damage.

What's a good level of investment for dealing with an elite skill? One dodge? One dodge plus utility skill (stunbreak or some sort of mobility to help run away)? I have always found rampage to require MUCH more investment to deal with than any other elite skill in a pvp setting.

Edit: DOn't get me wrong, I hate the current state of Daggerstorm. But to compare it to rampage, as if DS has anywhere near the sort of battle presence a rampaging warrior does, is horribly wrong. The two are vastly different, both in the power of the skills themselves and how they're designed to mesh with the class that uses 'em.

Don't think either of us were actually equating the two there mate.

I don't know, you probably didn't, but Fueki seemed to do exactly that while using it as an argument against the rampage nerf :p

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

@Sobx.1758 said:

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@Curennos.9307 said:Daggerstorm is a single skill on one of the squishiest classes in the game when not evading or stealthed. It's nowhere near equivalent to rampage, before or after the nerfs.

Rampage would also probably be a little more fine if there wasn't so much extra damage flying around on spellbreaker, too, but that's a whole 'nother story.

Still - equating daggerstorm, which got its evade because thieves impode if you get a solid hit on them, to rampage - an elite xform skill that either requires large amounts of defensive resources to deal with or multiple players (read - massive amounts of damage) to make the trade not worth it to the warr - is...a wildly disjointed comparison.

You can't even remove the evade from DS and just replace it with pulsing stability. The thief would still get nuked. It just lets the thief dish out AA levels of damage, or slightly higher, in relative safety (soft/hard counters like retal/line ward notwithstanding).

It's nowhere near the level of....gravity that a rampaging warrior has.

I'm curious as to what people think is an adequate amount of defensive resources a class might have to dedicate in order to safely deal with an opponent's elite skill. I tend to go with 'one dodge' - both in movement and the evade. Thief's impact strike is well negated if you dodge (or blind, or...etcetc) any of its strikes. Daggerstorm damage isn't too threatening - I usually just wait a bit, maybe use projectile negation if I have a cheap source(this isn't even required)- and then set up my CC to land at the end of it.

Rampage has two CCs you really should mitigate somehow, otherwise you'll face a hard hitting follow up in the form of AAs or the gap closer (which also deals a ton of damage). Heck, even the AAs themselves have pretty dodge-worthy damage.

What's a good level of investment for dealing with an elite skill? One dodge? One dodge plus utility skill (stunbreak or some sort of mobility to help run away)? I have always found rampage to require MUCH more investment to deal with than any other elite skill in a pvp setting.

Edit: DOn't get me wrong, I hate the current state of Daggerstorm. But to compare it to rampage, as if DS has anywhere near the sort of battle presence a rampaging warrior does, is horribly wrong. The two are vastly different, both in the power of the skills themselves and how they're designed to mesh with the class that uses 'em.

Don't think either of us were actually equating the two there mate.

I don't know, you probably didn't, but Fueki seemed to do exactly that while using it as an argument against the rampage nerf :p:

Well let him chime in then

[Fueki.4753]

@Sobx.1758 said:

Don't think either of us were actually equating the two there mate.I don't know, you probably didn't, but Fueki seemed to do exactly that while using it as an argument against the rampage nerf :p

I never implied they were equally strong.But they were both skills with damage and utility.Rampage lost most of the damage (and the remaining to dps skills are easily evaded by being slightly out of range, making them near useless for dps).I've rarely seen anyone get CC'd by Rampage anyway. People always run away once they see warriors grow.And I pointed out Daggerstorm retains both its utility and its damage.

[sneakytails.5629]

Too many skills doing too much, I agree with that. CC should be the setup for damage and not do great damage, have evade frames, be a gap closer, and have a bunch of other stuff all piled on top of it. It creates cheesy game-play and promotes stacking, rather than actually making decisions and allowing counter play by your opponent.

Rampage and Bulls Charge are over used crutches, and they do far too much and have hardly any downsides. Its time for them to be toned down along with other classes skills. Everything is too spammy and players are getting too much reward for doing it.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

@sneakytails.5629 said:Too many skills doing too much, I agree with that. CC should be the setup for damage and not do great damage, have evade frames, be a gap closer, and have a bunch of other stuff all piled on top of it. It creates cheesy game-play and promotes stacking, rather than actually making decisions and allowing counter play by your opponent.

Rampage and Bulls Charge are over used crutches, and they do far too much and have hardly any downsides. Its time for them to be toned down along with other classes skills. Everything is too spammy and players are getting too much reward for doing it.

Can stability get nerfed then do that CC is worth using after it all gets nerfed to the ground?

[Curennos.9307]

I kinda wish anet would give up on its insistence on the whole transformation thing.

It would be so much easier to balance if they just selected a single skill from rampage, made it give stab for a little bit and some minor damage reduction, then called it the new elite and left it alone (w/lower CD or something). It'd certainly expand on options and make things less....all or nothing.

Necro suffers from this, too. I would love to have JUST Lich Form's fear wave as an elite with it also giving a small amount of stab, for example. Almost any one of rampage's skills would make a fine elite with some stab and dmg reduction slapped on, then undo any nerfs to it.

[Sobx.1758]

@Fueki.4753 said:

@"Sobx.1758" said:

Don't think either of us were actually equating the two there mate.I don't know, you probably didn't, but Fueki seemed to do exactly that while using it as an argument against the rampage nerf :p

I never implied they were equally strong.But they were both skills with damage and utility.Rampage lost most of the damage (and the remaining to dps skills are easily evaded by being slightly out of range, making them near useless for dps).I've rarely seen anyone get CC'd by Rampage anyway. People always run away once they see warriors grow.And I pointed out Daggerstorm retains both its utility and its damage.

"It's an Elite skill, it's supposed to be powerful.Just look at that Daggerstorm with it evade time"

Looks like a direct comparison to me, but whatever you say :mrgreen: