Jump to content
  • Sign Up

Official Feedback Thread about Build and Equipment Templates


Recommended Posts

@Obtena.7952 said:This could be argued forever because of the dipolarity of the perspectives. The one fact remains that will ALWAYS be there; the risk to use third party software is on the player. This all comes down to a bunch of people who think they are getting screwed over because of a baseline they established for themselves and an expectation they set for Anet from using 3rd party software. That is part of the risk and this is an excellent example of what happens when that risk becomes reality for players who can't accept it.

This is an absurd bow-out.You mean the risk associated with an expectation that a professional game design company might have it within their capability to at the very least match what single individual was able to achieve in his spare time.You're right though, my baseline expectation of Anet has been more realistically calibrated now.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@"roso.1536" said:I noticed theres no mention to build/equipment templates on the roadmap, it shatters my heart.

There was even a player-designed mockup for a new system that looks awesome, but im starting to loose faith this one feature will be left "as is".

Your thoughts?

It’s done from their perspective. Only sales on the slots.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@IndigoSundown.5419 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:I can't disagree that the templates as is, are not as well done as ARC, but it's not unreasonable to think that the result is based on working within the framework of the game, both how it's managed and the actual code. Those two things that ARC DIDN'T have to contend with ... and that impact was obvious. Sure, tell Anet why but don't pretend that the constraints don't exist.

It
is
unreasonable to assume that ANet faced more constraints within their own system than DeltaConnected did. Surely, if a third party could create a simple system that worked with the game, the creators of the game could have created a simpler, maybe even better system. It's ludicrous to believe that the game's developer could not have done as well as an outside party did.

Impecabbly said, IndigoSundown.

As somebody who's worked in IT for decades, I'm annoyed by this argument that the developer is more limited by their own system than someone working outside it, and no - you don't need to be familiar with Anet's code to understand this. I've seen this from both sides of the fence. I've been tasked with trying to get the most of other developer's APIs, and I've built APIs. The people inside always have it easier - unless management intentionally make it difficult.Here's the thing: at the very least, Anet could have used their own API to provide the same functionality as ARC and still monetised it. Profit!Heck, they could have bought ARC, rebadged it and monetised it, like Microsoft do all the time.There are so many more options before you even get to rewriting the thing!

So, yeah. That's my 2c.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@RedShark.9548 said:Well, what do you think should change? We got build templates, after years, they work.Anet wants to make money off of them, thats why you only have so few. What else would you want, stay reasonable tho?

Well, I would like something like the mockup, below on quotes

@"BlackyWarsX.5384" said:Dear diary, it's me! Laganja! With another fever dream!

The last few days / weeks I've been thinking about how to improve build templates loadouts even more, you know, making them actual templates. I already did a first mockup a while back, but then I thought: "The hero window needs an overhaul!".

Tha base for this overhaul came to mind when I took a look at gw2skills.net and their editor. It shows so much useful information and I took a lot of inspiration from it:

  • effects (boons, conditions, cc, etc) your build is capable of
  • a short overview of specs you're using in the current build
  • upgrades visible in their own slot

So I sat down (again), opened Photoshop and started to move things around, scrap some stuff, add some new stuff and some things came around.

As usual, a

disclaimer

This is just a design concept. I don't know how hard it would be to implement, I just played with the interfaceFull gallery on imgur

Rearranging the Hero Panel

Some major things have changed in the hero panel! There is no longer an extra "skills and trait" menu and two new menus were added: mounts and travel.

OCuzyIu.pngFrom top to bottom this would be:

  1. Equipment (Inventory)
  2. Armory (Templates)
  3. Training
  4. Mounts
  5. Travel (all your teleport items and unlocks are available here)
  6. Journal
  7. Crafting
  8. Achievements
  9. Masteries

The equipment menu

Equipment

The equipment menu is just your regular gear / inventory. It has changed quite a bit!

x2dJzcf.pngThe left side shows your characters information (name, level, class) along with your currently loaded template and a preview of your templates specs. Just below that are your attributes and settings.

On the right side is the "effect summary". It shows what your build is capable of doing: boons, conditions, cc, buffs, combo-fields and combo finishers.

yezXcTc.pngBelow that is the expandable inventory. It shows up whenever you want to change stuff around.

In the center is your character and their gear. I placed some more slots for upgrades and infusions next to the gear. Right now it's more of a... "visual support" to easily see if/what upgrades your gear has slotted. There's also a new "customize" button which shows up if you select an armor piece or weapon.

aASX749.pngYou can open it to select stats, upgrades and infusions (depending on your gear, of course). The inventory panel on the right adapts to whatever your selection needs (stats, infusions, upgrades, gear).

vS9qKEq.pngI was thinking about adding a toggle for upgrades to show/hide the upgrade slots, but I'm not happy with it right now.

This is your equipment.It's based on your currently loaded template, but does not change your template once you decide to change weapons or stats on the fly. This is where settings come into play: If you ever decide to save your changes, you can...

  • ... override your currently loaded template
  • ... save a new template
  • ... revert any changes and reload your current template

by the way: gathering tools and glyphs are now also part of your build.

Builds

Builds look different, too! Instead of being horizontal, I arranged them vertically and removed a lot of unused white space to make them more compact (also I had to because otherwise they would not have fit into the area).

bR7b6cp.pngBelow your specializations are your characters skills. It shows what weapon types you've equipped in your weapon sets and let's you change your utility skills.

7guqUor.pngSelecting a slot opens up the skills & traits window with pre-defined filters for that slot, in this case 'healing skills'.

FRVeIt6.pngYou can also toggle between aquatic and terrestrial environments.

Wardrobe

The wardrobe is now part of your build, too! Since specializations and gear is not important for the wardrobe, the window looks a little bit different from the rest.

kDUhldF.pngNow you don't apply skins to items, you apply skins to gear slots. This way you can change your gear around, but keep all your settings (skin, dyes). Applying skins to slots requires transmutation charges as usual, loading templates does not use any charges, though.

Novelties are just skins with functions, so I moved them to the wardrobe as well. You can now set chairs, toys, finishers and minis according to your style of build as well.

The Armory

Nd0ch7s.png

The armory contains all your saved builds. Your list of builds is on the left, your stat and effect summary is on the right with your characters information about gear, traits and skins in the center. You can choose which build is your default PvE, WvW and PvP build and edit your templates or delete them.

mknjTrZ.png

Your build list will change to the inventory panel once you edit a template.In the top left, above the inventory, you can change the name of the build.In the top right, you can set a gamemode for your build.

The center looks and behaves exactly like the equipment screen.Any changes must be saved to take effect.

Mounts

Mounts now get their own submenu in the hero panel.I created two versions but I'm not quite happy with either. They are also an early draft.I also added a "dummy" underwater mount just because we don't have one yet.

Version 1

SEelTv5.png

An overview of all of your unlocked mounts is on the right side.

ucMG20s.png

Choosing a mount will open the skins & dyes panel for this mount and shows their skin slot and dye channel.It also shows a short description and your unlocked skills for this mount.

Version 2

vhHHxgb.png

All your mounts are laid accross the window, showing their icon, image, and their engage skill.

GhvDcdD.png

Choosing a mount will fade out all the others and moves your selection to the left. The engage skill becomes a "back" button.The center area now shows your mount slot, dye channel, a preview and skills. The right side shows your skin and dye collection.

Travel

Unfortunately no screen here.

This panel would list all your unlocked teleports.Things that would show up here:

  • Tomes
  • Teleport to Home Instance
  • VIP Lounges
  • Word Boss Devices

A final note

Again, these are just mockups. There needs to be more usecase evaluations and usability tests, as well as some warning messages when you change stuff. There's a lot to be thought of.

Also: I know this will probably never happen. But I did it anyway.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@TwoGhosts.6790 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:This could be argued forever because of the dipolarity of the perspectives. The one fact remains that will ALWAYS be there; the risk to use third party software is on the player. This all comes down to a bunch of people who think they are getting screwed over because of a baseline they established for themselves and an expectation they set for Anet from using 3rd party software. That is part of the risk and this is an excellent example of what happens when that risk becomes reality for players who can't accept it.

You mean the risk ...

No, that's not what I mean AT ALL. I said EXACTLY what I meant ... the risk to use third party software will ALWAYS be on the player. Not recognizing that is being irresponsible, ESPECIALLY if you are going to use dishonest accusations to not accept that fact.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:This could be argued forever because of the dipolarity of the perspectives. The one fact remains that will ALWAYS be there; the risk to use third party software is on the player. This all comes down to a bunch of people who think they are getting screwed over because of a baseline they established for themselves and an expectation they set for Anet from using 3rd party software. That is part of the risk and this is an excellent example of what happens when that risk becomes reality for players who can't accept it.

You mean the risk ...

No, that's not what I mean AT ALL. I said EXACTLY what I meant ... the risk to use third party software will ALWAYS be on the player. Not recognizing that is being irresponsible, ESPECIALLY if you are going to use dishonest accusations to not accept that fact.

No, it was what you meant. Because what other risk, at all, did we (and this is hilarious, by the way) 'irresponsible players' run? The only 'risk' we ran was having our "established baseline" ruined and Anet fail to meet our "expectations". That's how you described the so-called 'risk' of using ARC. I simply unpacked what those expectations were.

There are no dishonest accusations here. There is simply feedback in a feedback thread. A lot of it takes the form of extremely harsh criticism. You don't like that. I don't care.

I guess if Anet would show up here, to their own forums, in their own defence, then perhaps you wouldn't feel so obliged to speak on their behalf.

Sometimes I come to these forums and I learn something new, find myself educated or have my opinion changed.

This is not one of those occasions.

You still haven't answered any of the questions I've asked you. But it doesn't matter. I'm done with you now.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Not sure why this needs to be a thread.

@"Dawdler.8521" said:I thought they already posted some stuff on it long ago, like how they where fixing the auto changing of WvW/PvE/PvP templates.

Switching to a default equipment/build tab was implemented December 3 , with out of combat weaponswap on ele + engi. For WvW it makes the templates restored to original function essentially but with added builds/equipment setups. For PvP your build+ equipment is locked once match starts so the benefit is lost there but allows for you to quick swap prior to match.

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/1099265/#Comment_1099265Rest of the mentioned roadmap for templates is" Ease of swapping legendary equipment between characters & Greater flexibility when making experimental changes to templates."My guess is that means legendary gear will get some usability improvements with the template system and the build templates will get a save changes option

Speculation:

  • It's been datamined that you can have up to 10 build templates/equipment templates (but at the current pricing for most people it is probably better to buy character slots, particularly for WvW)
  • Ideally build storage would be cut down in pricing by quite a lot per slot, even if the amount of payment is the same 500 gems (i.e. 500 gems gets you 9 slots or even 18).
  • Equipment template pricing could be implemented such that buying 5+ gets you 20-30% off similar to other things in the gem store. I don't see this dropping in price much if at all.
  • Originally build templates were only to be switched in WvW spawn , but it's any time out of combat right now. It remains to be seen whether this will change. I see many people suggest this to be an account-wide unlock but given additional crafting license is 800 gems , I'd think the price would go up if made an account-wide unlock.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Ashantara.8731 said:

@Moradorin.6217 said:They dont work, they punnish people who use legendary weapons by doing bullkitten like automatically removing the sigils and infusions from your weapons each time you try to change your weapon set

That was
fixed
when Episode 1 of the Icebrood Saga released.

@"UnDeadFun.5824" said:At least we have a clear roadmap to show us they are never going to address the real issues with templates. :/

I doubt it. They said the templates system's problems were going to be addressed and they will be. Polishing already released content doesn't count as new content. ;)

Actaully, what I am talking about has NOT been fixed. It still does it as of this moment. What I am talking about is the fact that every time you move a legendary from inventory into which ever "template tab" you have to ALSO replace the sigil and infusion manually EACH TIME. This is because every time a legendary weapon gets pulled from the weapon slot in the inventory swapping process it seems to, for lack of a better term, assume you are removing the weapon from the template as opposed to trying to just use a different weapon without having a tab for EVERY weapon and weapon combo. This is 100% consistent and repeatable, and its a kitten pain in the kitten that punishes players who try to use legendary weapons outside of only using pre-configured template tabs, which many people dont have, cant afford, and/or wouldnt want to buy. Really, no matter how you look at it, its a problem. People get legendaries because they are supposed to be the uncontested best that will always be upgraded if/when things in the game change (for instance infusion slots and new stat combinations). This issue with templates locks this function away behind a NEW gemstore unlock so to speak which people couldn't have known about before hand so again, no matter how you look at this is IS a SERIOUS issue that IS insulting to any player who, like myself, happens to have the default 2 tabs and a bunch of weapons and weapon combos that they use because now it takes longer than before to get my weapons swapped and setup w sigils, etc and some times when Im in a hurry I have forgotten and gone into battle without my sigils and infusions because I SHOULDNT HAVE TO DO ALL THIS IN THE FIRST PLACE AND DIDNT UNTILL NOW. I know you are trying to help, so am I. Im trying to help us get this issue resolved because it IS a serious one. =)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@TwoGhosts.6790 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:This could be argued forever because of the dipolarity of the perspectives. The one fact remains that will ALWAYS be there; the risk to use third party software is on the player. This all comes down to a bunch of people who think they are getting screwed over because of a baseline they established for themselves and an expectation they set for Anet from using 3rd party software. That is part of the risk and this is an excellent example of what happens when that risk becomes reality for players who can't accept it.

You mean the risk ...

No, that's not what I mean AT ALL. I said EXACTLY what I meant ... the risk to use third party software will ALWAYS be on the player. Not recognizing that is being irresponsible, ESPECIALLY if you are going to use dishonest accusations to not accept that fact.

No, it was what you meant. Because what other risk, at all, did we (and this is hilarious, by the way) 'irresponsible players' run? The only 'risk' we ran was having our "established baseline" ruined and Anet fail to meet our "expectations". That's how you described the so-called 'risk' of using ARC. I simply unpacked what those expectations were.

That is dishonest, sorry. Any "risk" of say:

  • having your account terminated because arc did something which was against ToS (accidentally or by design) would have been on you
  • any item destruction, damage to characters, damage to account, etc. would have been on you
  • any security risk associated with any usage of a 3rd party app would have been on you (say someone put up a temporary malicious version of arc and got player's account data, etc.)

It's fine to argue that risk was minimal with certain 3rd party software, but it was/is always higher and especially with other individuals (mostly with one self as it was always "use at your own risk" versus the developers) compared to have built in versions.

Deltaconnected even has a HUGE red disclaimer at the top. Let me in fact quote it for you:

MODIFYING GUILD WARS 2 THROUGH ANY 3RD PARTY TOOLS IS NOT SUPPORTED BY ARENANET OR NCSOFT.THERE IS NO HELP OR WARRANTY. THIS IS ENTIRELY AT YOUR OWN RISK AND YOU ASSUME ALL RESPONSIBILITYFOR USING THIS TOOL. IF YOU FEEL THIS PROVIDES GAMEPLAY ADVANTAGE OR AUTOMATION OR BREAKS ANY OTHERRULES DO NOT USE THIS.IMPORTANT: DO NOT CONTACT ARENANET SUPPORT OR REQUEST HELP ON THE OFFICIAL FORUMS WHILE USING THISMODIFICATION BY ANY MEANS OR UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES EVER.

@TwoGhosts.6790 said:There are no dishonest accusations here. There is simply feedback in a feedback thread. A lot of it takes the form of extremely harsh criticism. You don't like that. I don't care.

Criticism is fine, but it should remain honest.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@TwoGhosts.6790 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:This could be argued forever because of the dipolarity of the perspectives. The one fact remains that will ALWAYS be there; the risk to use third party software is on the player. This all comes down to a bunch of people who think they are getting screwed over because of a baseline they established for themselves and an expectation they set for Anet from using 3rd party software. That is part of the risk and this is an excellent example of what happens when that risk becomes reality for players who can't accept it.

You mean the risk ...

No, that's not what I mean AT ALL. I said EXACTLY what I meant ... the risk to use third party software will ALWAYS be on the player. Not recognizing that is being irresponsible, ESPECIALLY if you are going to use dishonest accusations to not accept that fact.

No, it was what you meant.

I know better than ANYONE ELSE HERE what I meant, including you. I'm not here to confuse you with complicated wordsmithing or apparently, even simple statements; exactly what I said is what I meant. The risk is on the player if they decide to use 3rd party tools. This is NOT a statement that can be disputed or confused in any way whatsoever.

Just because you don't see the risk (or simply refuse to accept it was there and don't acknowledge it) doesn't mean it wasn't yours to take on. This is why there is a standing, universal recognition for every MMO I've ever encoutered that players should not use 3rd party tools. Again, if you choose to ignore that, the consequences will fall directly on you, whatever they may be. This feature is a great example of that.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@"BlackyWarsX.5384" said:Dear diary, it's me! Laganja! With another fever dream!

The last few days / weeks I've been thinking about how to improve build templates loadouts even more, you know, making them actual templates. I already did a first mockup a while back, but then I thought: "The hero window needs an overhaul!".

Tha base for this overhaul came to mind when I took a look at gw2skills.net and their editor. It shows so much useful information and I took a lot of inspiration from it:

  • effects (boons, conditions, cc, etc) your build is capable of
  • a short overview of specs you're using in the current build
  • upgrades visible in their own slot

So I sat down (again), opened Photoshop and started to move things around, scrap some stuff, add some new stuff and some things came around.

As usual, a

disclaimer

This is just a design concept. I don't know how hard it would be to implement, I just played with the interfaceFull gallery on imgur

Rearranging the Hero Panel

Some major things have changed in the hero panel! There is no longer an extra "skills and trait" menu and two new menus were added: mounts and travel.

OCuzyIu.pngFrom top to bottom this would be:

  1. Equipment (Inventory)
  2. Armory (Templates)
  3. Training
  4. Mounts
  5. Travel (all your teleport items and unlocks are available here)
  6. Journal
  7. Crafting
  8. Achievements
  9. Masteries

The equipment menu

Equipment

The equipment menu is just your regular gear / inventory. It has changed quite a bit!

x2dJzcf.pngThe left side shows your characters information (name, level, class) along with your currently loaded template and a preview of your templates specs. Just below that are your attributes and settings.

On the right side is the "effect summary". It shows what your build is capable of doing: boons, conditions, cc, buffs, combo-fields and combo finishers.

yezXcTc.pngBelow that is the expandable inventory. It shows up whenever you want to change stuff around.

In the center is your character and their gear. I placed some more slots for upgrades and infusions next to the gear. Right now it's more of a... "visual support" to easily see if/what upgrades your gear has slotted. There's also a new "customize" button which shows up if you select an armor piece or weapon.

aASX749.pngYou can open it to select stats, upgrades and infusions (depending on your gear, of course). The inventory panel on the right adapts to whatever your selection needs (stats, infusions, upgrades, gear).

vS9qKEq.pngI was thinking about adding a toggle for upgrades to show/hide the upgrade slots, but I'm not happy with it right now.

This is your equipment.It's based on your currently loaded template, but does not change your template once you decide to change weapons or stats on the fly. This is where settings come into play: If you ever decide to save your changes, you can...

  • ... override your currently loaded template
  • ... save a new template
  • ... revert any changes and reload your current template

by the way: gathering tools and glyphs are now also part of your build.

Builds

Builds look different, too! Instead of being horizontal, I arranged them vertically and removed a lot of unused white space to make them more compact (also I had to because otherwise they would not have fit into the area).

bR7b6cp.pngBelow your specializations are your characters skills. It shows what weapon types you've equipped in your weapon sets and let's you change your utility skills.

7guqUor.pngSelecting a slot opens up the skills & traits window with pre-defined filters for that slot, in this case 'healing skills'.

FRVeIt6.pngYou can also toggle between aquatic and terrestrial environments.

Wardrobe

The wardrobe is now part of your build, too! Since specializations and gear is not important for the wardrobe, the window looks a little bit different from the rest.

kDUhldF.pngNow you don't apply skins to items, you apply skins to gear slots. This way you can change your gear around, but keep all your settings (skin, dyes). Applying skins to slots requires transmutation charges as usual, loading templates does not use any charges, though.

Novelties are just skins with functions, so I moved them to the wardrobe as well. You can now set chairs, toys, finishers and minis according to your style of build as well.

The Armory

Nd0ch7s.png

The armory contains all your saved builds. Your list of builds is on the left, your stat and effect summary is on the right with your characters information about gear, traits and skins in the center. You can choose which build is your default PvE, WvW and PvP build and edit your templates or delete them.

mknjTrZ.png

Your build list will change to the inventory panel once you edit a template.In the top left, above the inventory, you can change the name of the build.In the top right, you can set a gamemode for your build.

The center looks and behaves exactly like the equipment screen.Any changes must be saved to take effect.

Mounts

Mounts now get their own submenu in the hero panel.I created two versions but I'm not quite happy with either. They are also an early draft.I also added a "dummy" underwater mount just because we don't have one yet.

Version 1

SEelTv5.png

An overview of all of your unlocked mounts is on the right side.

ucMG20s.png

Choosing a mount will open the skins & dyes panel for this mount and shows their skin slot and dye channel.It also shows a short description and your unlocked skills for this mount.

Version 2

vhHHxgb.png

All your mounts are laid accross the window, showing their icon, image, and their engage skill.

GhvDcdD.png

Choosing a mount will fade out all the others and moves your selection to the left. The engage skill becomes a "back" button.The center area now shows your mount slot, dye channel, a preview and skills. The right side shows your skin and dye collection.

Travel

Unfortunately no screen here.

This panel would list all your unlocked teleports.Things that would show up here:

  • Tomes
  • Teleport to Home Instance
  • VIP Lounges
  • Word Boss Devices

A final note

Again, these are just mockups. There needs to be more usecase evaluations and usability tests, as well as some warning messages when you change stuff. There's a lot to be thought of.

Also: I know this will probably never happen. But I did it anyway.

This is truly worth quoting for value. Let's keep our fingers crossed that the devs will see this! <3

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:This could be argued forever because of the dipolarity of the perspectives. The one fact remains that will ALWAYS be there; the risk to use third party software is on the player. This all comes down to a bunch of people who think they are getting screwed over because of a baseline they established for themselves and an expectation they set for Anet from using 3rd party software. That is part of the risk and this is an excellent example of what happens when that risk becomes reality for players who can't accept it.

You mean the risk ...

No, that's not what I mean AT ALL. I said EXACTLY what I meant ... the risk to use third party software will ALWAYS be on the player. Not recognizing that is being irresponsible, ESPECIALLY if you are going to use dishonest accusations to not accept that fact.

No, it was what you meant.

I know better than ANYONE ELSE HERE what I meant, including you. I'm not here to confuse you with complicated wordsmithing or apparently, even simple statements; exactly what I said is what I meant. The risk is on the player if they decide to use 3rd party tools. This is NOT a statement that can be disputed or confused in any way whatsoever.

Just because you don't see the risk (or simply refuse to accept it was there and don't acknowledge it) doesn't mean it wasn't yours to take on. This is why there is a standing, universal recognition for every MMO I've ever encoutered that players should not use 3rd party tools. Again, if you choose to ignore that, the consequences will fall directly on you, whatever they may be. This feature is a great example of that.

I find I am curious as to the answer to his question too. Did you or do you use arcdps?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
×
×
  • Create New...