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Can we please get a stat combination for pure support?


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@lare.5129 said:

@sokeenoppa.5384 said:What ? many raid bosses has toughness based tank aggro.If kiters don't have specific toughness runes why we should care that team's?

Again, what? What are these weird kiters that you are talking about. Only in one raid boss there is this kiting mechanics where you MIGHT need to have some toughness (still less than tank has).And when it comes to tanking you always wanna do that with as low toughness as possible and thats why healers in raids should also run with 0 added toughness.

Specific tougness runes? What are those, you might wanna check out the runes that tanks or healers use in raids. Now stop with this nonsense ?

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@sokeenoppa.5384 said:What are these weird kiters that you are talking about.kiters - is a someone who keep agro from boss.

Only in one raid boss there is this kiting mechanics where you MIGHT need to have some toughness (still less than tank has).support should always have overcap toughness to be sure for more safe.

And when it comes to tanking you always wanna do that with as low toughness as possibleNO. You should have same 1:1 toughness as heal, PLUS toughness from runes and sometimes food.

Specific tougness runes? What are those, you might wanna check out the runes that tanks or healers use in raids.I don't care if someone use not properly build or runes.

I am expert of game play in GuildWars2, so I am sure that you don't have enough experience. You should try read guide. May be you will find my extended guides also.

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@lare.5129 said:

@"sokeenoppa.5384" said:What are these weird kiters that you are talking about.kiters - is a someone who keep agro from boss.

Only in one raid boss there is this kiting mechanics where you MIGHT need to have some toughness (still less than tank has).support should always have overcap toughness to be sure for more safe.

And when it comes to tanking you always wanna do that with as low toughness as possibleNO. You should have same 1:1 toughness as heal, PLUS toughness from runes and sometimes food.

Specific tougness runes? What are those, you might wanna check out the runes that tanks or healers use in raids.I don't care if someone use not properly build or runes.

I am expert of game play in GuildWars2, so I am sure that you don't have enough experience. You should try read guide. May be you will find my extended guides also.

And here i am with my 1k LIs without enough experience.Also are you saying that SC is not using proper gear on their tanks and heals? Everything you just said is just wrong and shows that you are the one without any experience when it comes to raiding.

See, 1k toughness for heal https://snowcrows.com/raids/builds/ranger/druid/heal/

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@"sokeenoppa.5384" said:And here i am with my 1k LIs without enough experience.yes, not enough. You also should have aprox 1k cms 100kp like me.

Also are you saying that SC is not using proper gear on their tanks and heals?yer, SC use not proper gear. They propagate speed run style wiht variantion on each boss, without any grantee to success.

See, 1k toughness for heal https://snowcrows.com/raids/builds/ranger/druid/heal/fail build,t o get fast down to downstate after first wave of bleed of fire instability. That build is work only on few boses in raid, and absolutely uselees in orr dungeons, and fractals.

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@lare.5129 said:

@"sokeenoppa.5384" said:And here i am with my 1k LIs without enough experience.yes, not enough. You also should have aprox 1k cms 100kp like me.

Also are you saying that SC is not using proper gear on their tanks and heals?yer, SC use not proper gear. They propagate speed run style wiht variantion on each boss, without any grantee to success.

See, 1k toughness for heal
fail build,t o get fast down to downstate after first wave of bleed of fire instability. That build is work only on few boses in raid, and absolutely uselees in orr dungeons, and fractals.

Well we were talking about raid healers here as no1 who does fractals seriously dont take healers unless its absolutely must for some reason.

For druid, its still very meta in raids, mostly because of 10men buffs instead of 5.Dungeons? Really, no1 use healers there.You are mostly talking about fractals and even with those same rule applies. For fractals you still wanna have power soulbeast, bannerslave, quickbrand, alacrigade and dps.. all of them with minimal toughness which you can clearly find you here: https://discretize.eu

Now if you are talking about some meme play what you want fractals where you dont even try to skip mechanics with high burst dmg, cant comment that as i dont know how that works because min/maxing allways works better.

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@"sokeenoppa.5384" said:Well we were talking about raid healersno, we were talking about healers for Fractals, Dungeons, and Raids.

here as no1 who does fractals seriously dont take healers unless its absolutely must for some reason.we call this chill meta. Welcome to gw2 terminology.

For druid, its still very meta in raids, mostly because of 10men buffs instead of 5.I say that druid dead ? no, I don't say that.

Dungeons? Really, no1 use healers there.Do you do each day orr dungeons? No?

You are mostly talking about fractals and even with those same rule applies.rules a not constants.

For fractals you still wanna have power soulbeast, bannerslave, quickbrand, alacrigade and dps..few days ago I close cms whit as chrno, with druid combo. I was have choose - join as chrno, or collect new party 30-40 min. This is reality.

all of them with minimal toughness which you can clearly find you here: https://discretize.euthis is "speedrunners", and reality exist in parallel mode for that.

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@lare.5129 said:

@"sokeenoppa.5384" said:Well we were talking about raid healersno, we were talking about healers for Fractals, Dungeons, and Raids.

here as no1 who does fractals seriously dont take healers unless its absolutely must for some reason.we call this chill meta. Welcome to gw2 terminology.

For druid, its still very meta in raids, mostly because of 10men buffs instead of 5.I say that druid dead ? no, I don't say that.

Dungeons? Really, no1 use healers there.Do you do each day orr dungeons? No?

You are mostly talking about fractals and even with those same rule applies.rules a not constants.

For fractals you still wanna have power soulbeast, bannerslave, quickbrand, alacrigade and dps..few days ago I close cms whit as chrno, with druid combo. I was have choose - join as chrno, or collect new party 30-40 min. This is reality.

all of them with minimal toughness which you can clearly find you here:
this is "speedrunners", and reality exist in parallel mode for that.

You said that you are experienced and now you are talking about chill runs ^^ ofc you can complete T4s even with 5 healers if you want to.

Speedrun or chill meta, anyways toughness should stay low on every1.Its not reality if you have static.

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@sokeenoppa.5384 said:You said that you are experienced and now you are talking about chill runs ^^ ofc you can complete T4s even with 5 healers if you want to.yes, and this is main part for experienced too.

Speedrun or chill meta, anyways toughness should stay low on every1.Its not reality if you have static.Sometimes we have 3 support from 5 in my static runs. Chill and fun.

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@sokeenoppa.5384After reading his posts in other part of the forums I think we all here should agree explicitly that he is not a very experienced player in terms of builds and instanced content. His 1k CM kps are not true because that would have been impossible for him to obtain since he hadn't had any few weeks ago. Also I'm missing lots of logic in his posts, here and in the usual discussion forum. For me personally it's a waste of time to argue with him.

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@"Vince.1695" said:His 1k CM kps are not true because that would have been impossible for him to obtain since he hadn't had any few weeks ago.I don't have 1k. I say I have aprox 1k. This is 2 different things.

And about you - don't be shine, share your api on https://killproof.me, because now looks that you kill mob only in Caledon Forest. So probably you also not understand too what is optimal stat combination for support.

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@"Dixie Cougar.2415" said:There are unfulfilled stat combinations that many full service supports (those that are dedicated to boons and healing) might benefit from. Main healing power or concentration, with the other as an off stat, and vitality as the third stat.

Existing stat combinations with both healing power and concentration work, but aren't ideal. Harrier is main power, which is of no significant benefit to dedicated healers and pushes the support stats down into the secondary slots. Giver's suffers from the same issue while also affecting aggro in some fights (fine if you're the tank, but otherwise problematic). Minstrel is more flexible than giver's but still pumps toughness a lot. Plaguedoctor is nice as a building block for hybrids but doesn't give enough conc/healing power for dedicated supports.

Can you make do somehow with what's available? Certainly, and I have done so for 3 years of raids, but I would immediately switch over to Con+Heals/Vit or Heals+Conc/Vit if either were available. Those are the only three stats that I want as a pure support, so it would be nice to see them all available in the same package.

Like it or not, role specialization is here to stay in endgame content and it would be lovely if support mains got a proper stat combination for their jobs--something that isn't main toughness or a DPS stat.

(Purists can argue that vit is "wasted" but the dps increase for healers from unfocused dps stats is trivial and toughness produces the aforementioned aggro problems. So outside of speedrunning, vit seems like the least useless of the three for a pure healer. More options in this case to suit different purposes would be better.)

The reason the "meta" stat combinations have Power in them is because Power adds the most DPS. In fact it's better to have just Power over having Precision AND Ferocity at the same time. This is of course by design, so support builds can do -some- damage with just one stat, so Power is intentionally overblown. I'm curious on why you need Vitality though, having Power instead of Vitality means the support can provide damage for the group as well as... support. There are times, especially in Raid encounters when you aren't required to heal, and instead can provide some damage numbers, Power is there for that reason. Which is why Harrier is so good for a support. They add Toughness on many stat combinations with Healing Power for the synergy (Healing + taking less damage = more effective health) which is of course counter productive if you are not the tank, harming the team instead of helping.

Now I can understand someone wanting to play a pure support build that deals no damage, although honestly in the current game I see little reason for it, except for training runs or when the team isn't yet experienced enough. More options is always good and if others find a pure support stat combination with Healing Power/ Concentration/ Vitality good I'm all for it.

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@lare.5129 said:

@"Vince.1695" said:His 1k CM kps are not true because that would have been impossible for him to obtain since he hadn't had any few weeks ago.I don't have 1k. I say I have aprox 1k. This is 2 different things.

And about you - don't be shine, share your api on
, because now looks that you kill mob only in Caledon Forest. So probably you also not understand too what is optimal stat combination for support.

I'm here since 2013. Was speed running dungeons, fracs & raids and one of the first people to have the fractal god title.If you talk about supports having to take toughness you're not competent and we are done with the discussion here. Sorry mate, but you belong to another league. That's no problem but please don't spread nonsense and just enjoy your casual content. I won't judge you because of that. Have fun in the game.

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@Vince.1695 said:@sokeenoppa.5384After reading his posts in other part of the forums I think we all here should agree explicitly that he is not a very experienced player in terms of builds and instanced content. His 1k CM kps are not true because that would have been impossible for him to obtain since he hadn't had any few weeks ago. Also I'm missing lots of logic in his posts, here and in the usual discussion forum. For me personally it's a waste of time to argue with him.

It was either netflix or this, kinda bored for netflix already?

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Not going to talk about the need to run healing or tanky gear or the lack thereof.

Just for the sake of having a discussion. We could consider a few options:

3 stats

  • Healing Power (main)
  • Concentration
  • Power or Vitality/Toughness

4 stats (power)

  • Healing Power (main)
  • Concentration (main)
  • Power
  • Precision

4 stats (condition)

  • Healing Power (main)
  • Concentration (main)
  • Condition Damage
  • Expertise

4 stats (a better Minstrel)

  • Healing Power (main)
  • Concentration (main)
  • Toughness
  • Vitality

The most optimal would be a two-stat combination with a ratio of 70/30 - 60/40 between Heaing Power and Concentration.Just enough to max out your Boon Duration. Imagine 70/30 with the similar amount of overall stats of a three-stat set:

(weapons)

  • 427 Healingpower
  • 182 Concentration

That's a gain of 176 Healing Power (a gain of around 70%) over the main stat of a three-stat set (251) and an extra 248 Healing Power if compared to an off-stat (179). Now that would be a hillarious amount of healing.Silly and a complete waste in many cases but still a big buff if we consider passive healing trough Regeneration, Symbols, Bow of Truth, etc. and spammable skills such as Cosmic Ray and Desert Blossom or traits such as Selfless Daring.

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