Does Range (soulbeast/core) have any place in WvW?

[Aeolus.3615]

@ArchonWing.9480 said:

@Aeolus.3615 said:

@Strider Pj.2193 said:It definitely has a strong place in small group and solo. Quite effective in fact.

Of course, you need to know how to play it.

I found lots of rangers that kept shooting inside ventari and guardian dome.

It never gets old, some with high wvw rank..

It's to the point where taking permeating wrath and wall of reflect is a better choice then it really should be.

Well rangers can destroy everyone due their damage output unless ur on ministrel but i guess I’m kinda ok with that... the pain are those 15k mauls under prot jalis and rev reducers on 3.2k armor...1 in 100 guards take WoR, boon spam stacking is far more rewardable :/ for most players.

[Biermeister.4678]

I hate SB unless I am on mine they are very useful in WvW and yes you can run them near the Blob they are very useful at getting quick downs on out of place backline class

[shadowpass.4236]

@EremiteAngel.9765 said:

@FunkyBassline.5289 said:

@"Leo.5829" said:No and with good reason. Ranger is the worst class you can take into WvW. They have no reliable damage in Zergs, have no boon strip, can't apply anywhere near enough boons to be even remotely interesting and are worse than any other support overall. Even in roaming you are better off with with something like a mesmer or thief. Unless you like loosing and gifting enemy servers free points you don't pick ranger. Having allied rangers on a full wvw map is essentially a handicap to your server.

Currently Ranger is Trash tier. You should pick Guardian, necro, scrapper, rev or warrior for zerging and for roaming either mesmer or thief(which in addition to being strong can potentially open a portal for allies into enemy objectives).

This is absolutely false. Soulbeast isn’t good in zergs but is arguably the best roamer given the open field nature of wvw. Thieves get absolutely annihilated by good SB players, and doesn’t really have any bad matchups in open field. Also has the most kite potential on any class with all the stab and leaps and even has the longest range. I honestly hope it gets nerfed in small group/roaming situations.

This is totally true.I just fought a Soulbeast LB/Sword+WH with my Reaper.I landed 80-90% of my big hits and still

LOST

.His pet did at least 50% of the damage on me while I was keeping him locked down.Necros already have a hard time sticking to rangers.How is that fair he still got another animal kicking me from behind!?This injustice against necros must be resolved!

Hey you've been playing Reaper for a while so this is just my opinion. I played Reaper pretty extensively in PvP and WvW when HoT came out. One of the builds I roamed with in WvW was something similar to this. Some stuff can be swapped around.

• Corrupt Boon is amazing at killing Soulbeasts because it gives you the ability to fear both sources of stab (dolyak stance + strength of the pack) through their greatsword block. However, Corrosive Poison Cloud is also an incredibly strong utility. It's strong against melee with weakness (pets will deal no damage and both gs and s/wh will suffer heavily in melee) and ranged (8 second long projectile denial every 20 seconds that can be dropped basically every time they swap to longbow) coupled with poison field you can Death's Charge through to apply weakness.
• Plague Sending can be used if you need more condition clear outside of double Cleansing Sigils + Consume Conditions (full condi clear every 20 seconds). However, Chilling Darkness synergizes with Death's Charge as the blind will also apply chill for 2.5 seconds every time you use it. Decimate Defenses vs. Chilling Victory is personal preference.
• Weakening Shroud lets you apply permanent weakness to the ranger with a high uptime on the pet as well (100% guaranteed because it can't dodge the Lesser Enfeeble. Also, contrary to popular belief(?), Curses actually gives power a significant boost in damage as well by granting you 8 seconds of fury every time you enter shroud (20% crit chance necros otherwise completely lack) from Furious Demise. Target the Weak also gives up to 12% additional critical chance (from the condis you're able to apply) depending on how many conditions are on your target.
• Chilled to the Bone is great because the pet can't dodge (guaranteed stab unless you whiff it completely) but Plaguelands is also a good survivability tool when the Soulbeast decides to engage in melee.
• You have a 10 second cooldown stunbreak + stab through Foot in the Grave. This is incredibly strong because it lets you stunbreak their Point Blank Shot every single time right after you get hit with the knockback if you don't have any dodges left. Since most Soulbeasts follow Point Blank Shot up with Rapid Fire, your Death's Charge will negate the projectiles right afterwards (and can continue to shut down Rapid Fire every single time they use it because DC's cooldown is 2 second lower). So, this will force them to dodge or get hit by a blind (extremely strong condition vs. longbow as they'll either miss their stealth/PBS or have to slowly auto attack or cleanse the condition first upon which you can just dodge the aforementioned LB3/LB4) and chill or if they dodge and attempt to stealth/knock you back afterwards, you can just dodge it. If you still have stab up from entering Shroud/Chilled to the Bone you might be immune to it anyways.
• You're also almost entirely immune to movement impairing conditions while in Reaper's Shroud because of Relentless Pursuit + Melandru Runes. Entering Shroud also cleanses all movement impairing conditions and grants you swiftness because of Speed of Shadows. In other words, you render several of the Soulbeast's kiting tools entirely useless on top of the build being naturally tanky with 2800 armor and 23k HP with very solid offensive stats and dodge uptime (from double Energy Sigils + Bowl of Orrian Truffle and Meat Stew, 40% endurance refill rate food) as well.

Coming from a PvPer who has mained Ranger since release, this build, played properly, would be extremely annoying to deal with. I'd have trouble dealing damage and kiting through all of the immunities/defenses. Well-timed Corrupt Boons will and have killed me against Reapers in the past while Corrosive Poison Cloud renders my longbow useless for the entire duration of the weapon swap as well as making it impossible for me and my pet to engage on you in melee.

[EremiteAngel.9765]

@shadowpass.4236 said:

@EremiteAngel.9765 said:

@FunkyBassline.5289 said:

@"Leo.5829" said:No and with good reason. Ranger is the worst class you can take into WvW. They have no reliable damage in Zergs, have no boon strip, can't apply anywhere near enough boons to be even remotely interesting and are worse than any other support overall. Even in roaming you are better off with with something like a mesmer or thief. Unless you like loosing and gifting enemy servers free points you don't pick ranger. Having allied rangers on a full wvw map is essentially a handicap to your server.

Currently Ranger is Trash tier. You should pick Guardian, necro, scrapper, rev or warrior for zerging and for roaming either mesmer or thief(which in addition to being strong can potentially open a portal for allies into enemy objectives).

This is absolutely false. Soulbeast isn’t good in zergs but is arguably the best roamer given the open field nature of wvw. Thieves get absolutely annihilated by good SB players, and doesn’t really have any bad matchups in open field. Also has the most kite potential on any class with all the stab and leaps and even has the longest range. I honestly hope it gets nerfed in small group/roaming situations.

This is totally true.I just fought a Soulbeast LB/Sword+WH with my Reaper.I landed 80-90% of my big hits and still

LOST

.His pet did at least 50% of the damage on me while I was keeping him locked down.Necros already have a hard time sticking to rangers.How is that fair he still got another animal kicking me from behind!?This injustice against necros must be resolved!

Hey you've been playing Reaper for a while so this is just my opinion. I played Reaper pretty extensively in PvP and WvW when HoT came out. One of the builds I roamed with in WvW was something similar to

this

. Some stuff can be swapped around.

• Corrupt Boon is amazing at killing Soulbeasts because it gives you the ability to fear both sources of stab (dolyak stance + strength of the pack) through their greatsword block. However, Corrosive Poison Cloud is also an incredibly strong utility. It's strong against melee with weakness (pets will deal no damage and both gs and s/wh will suffer heavily in melee) and ranged (8 second long projectile denial every 20 seconds that can be dropped basically every time they swap to longbow) coupled with poison field you can Death's Charge through to apply weakness.
• Plague Sending can be used if you need more condition clear outside of double Cleansing Sigils + Consume Conditions (full condi clear every 20 seconds). However, Chilling Darkness synergizes with Death's Charge as the blind will also apply chill for 2.5 seconds every time you use it. Decimate Defenses vs. Chilling Victory is personal preference.
• Weakening Shroud lets you apply permanent weakness to the ranger with a high uptime on the pet as well (100% guaranteed because it can't dodge the Lesser Enfeeble. Also, contrary to popular belief(?), Curses actually gives power a significant boost in damage as well by granting you 8 seconds of fury every time you enter shroud (20% crit chance necros otherwise completely lack) from Furious Demise. Target the Weak also gives up to 12% additional critical chance (from the condis you're able to apply) depending on how many conditions are on your target.
• Chilled to the Bone is great because the pet can't dodge (guaranteed stab unless you whiff it completely) but Plaguelands is also a good survivability tool when the Soulbeast decides to engage in melee.
• You have a 10 second cooldown stunbreak + stab through Foot in the Grave. This is incredibly strong because it lets you stunbreak their Point Blank Shot every single time right after you get hit with the knockback if you don't have any dodges left. Since most Soulbeasts follow Point Blank Shot up with Rapid Fire, your Death's Charge will negate the projectiles right afterwards (and can continue to shut down Rapid Fire every single time they use it because DC's cooldown is 2 second lower). So, this will force them to dodge or get hit by a blind (extremely strong condition vs. longbow as they'll either miss their stealth/PBS or have to slowly auto attack or cleanse the condition first upon which you can just dodge the aforementioned LB3/LB4) and chill or if they dodge and attempt to stealth/knock you back afterwards, you can just dodge it. If you still have stab up from entering Shroud/Chilled to the Bone you might be immune to it anyways.
• You're also almost entirely immune to movement impairing conditions while in Reaper's Shroud because of Relentless Pursuit + Melandru Runes. Entering Shroud also cleanses all movement impairing conditions and grants you swiftness because of Speed of Shadows. In other words, you render several of the Soulbeast's kiting tools entirely useless on top of the build being naturally tanky with 2800 armor and 23k HP with very solid offensive stats and dodge uptime (from double Energy Sigils + Bowl of Orrian Truffle and Meat Stew, 40% endurance refill rate food) as well.

Coming from a PvPer who has mained Ranger since release, this build, played properly, would be extremely annoying to deal with. I'd have trouble dealing damage and kiting through all of the immunities/defenses. Well-timed Corrupt Boons

will

and

have

killed me against Reapers in the past while Corrosive Poison Cloud renders my longbow useless for the entire duration of the weapon swap as well as making it impossible for me and my pet to engage on you in melee.

Very well written post ?I can tell you’re a reaper pro.I use most of your points when I fight them too except for CPC. And also I’m usually full glass haha.I’m just miffed that I can land so many big hits against them but they can just shrug them off and win ?In one of the fights, I landed cttb, corrupted their stabs, fitg and shroud 2 at right times to negate their knock back rapid fire, landed shroud 3 and 5, dodged worldly impacts.But that ranger had high protection/boons uptime. And he kites well with multiple stealth to heal up. He barely took any damage even though I was full glass.And all this while his animal was kicking me from behind ?

[Moira Shalaar.5620]

@OP as several have already said, Ranger is definitely viable and has a place in WvW. It does work very well in solo and havoc groups, although my guild squad also WANTS me to run ranger and we have developed a set of tactics to incorporate rangers into how we operate. However there are also many commanders out there that don't like ranger because they have VERY limited buffs for the squad and reflects can turn a mediocre ranger into a genuine threat to their own squad. But if you learn how to play it well, it can be very rewarding. I have routinely taken out small havoc groups of up to 4 vs 1. That said, it is by no means a gimme, I have had good spell breakers and Heralds that have destroyed me every time I meet them. So like any class, it has things it is strong against and things it is not. The real key is spending the time to learn how to play it well.

[shadowpass.4236]

@EremiteAngel.9765 said:

@shadowpass.4236 said:

@EremiteAngel.9765 said:

@FunkyBassline.5289 said:

@"Leo.5829" said:No and with good reason. Ranger is the worst class you can take into WvW. They have no reliable damage in Zergs, have no boon strip, can't apply anywhere near enough boons to be even remotely interesting and are worse than any other support overall. Even in roaming you are better off with with something like a mesmer or thief. Unless you like loosing and gifting enemy servers free points you don't pick ranger. Having allied rangers on a full wvw map is essentially a handicap to your server.

Currently Ranger is Trash tier. You should pick Guardian, necro, scrapper, rev or warrior for zerging and for roaming either mesmer or thief(which in addition to being strong can potentially open a portal for allies into enemy objectives).

This is absolutely false. Soulbeast isn’t good in zergs but is arguably the best roamer given the open field nature of wvw. Thieves get absolutely annihilated by good SB players, and doesn’t really have any bad matchups in open field. Also has the most kite potential on any class with all the stab and leaps and even has the longest range. I honestly hope it gets nerfed in small group/roaming situations.

This is totally true.I just fought a Soulbeast LB/Sword+WH with my Reaper.I landed 80-90% of my big hits and still

LOST

.His pet did at least 50% of the damage on me while I was keeping him locked down.Necros already have a hard time sticking to rangers.How is that fair he still got another animal kicking me from behind!?This injustice against necros must be resolved!

Hey you've been playing Reaper for a while so this is just my opinion. I played Reaper pretty extensively in PvP and WvW when HoT came out. One of the builds I roamed with in WvW was something similar to

this

. Some stuff can be swapped around.

• Corrupt Boon is amazing at killing Soulbeasts because it gives you the ability to fear both sources of stab (dolyak stance + strength of the pack) through their greatsword block. However, Corrosive Poison Cloud is also an incredibly strong utility. It's strong against melee with weakness (pets will deal no damage and both gs and s/wh will suffer heavily in melee) and ranged (8 second long projectile denial every 20 seconds that can be dropped basically every time they swap to longbow) coupled with poison field you can Death's Charge through to apply weakness.
• Plague Sending can be used if you need more condition clear outside of double Cleansing Sigils + Consume Conditions (full condi clear every 20 seconds). However, Chilling Darkness synergizes with Death's Charge as the blind will also apply chill for 2.5 seconds every time you use it. Decimate Defenses vs. Chilling Victory is personal preference.
• Weakening Shroud lets you apply permanent weakness to the ranger with a high uptime on the pet as well (100% guaranteed because it can't dodge the Lesser Enfeeble. Also, contrary to popular belief(?), Curses actually gives power a significant boost in damage as well by granting you 8 seconds of fury every time you enter shroud (20% crit chance necros otherwise completely lack) from Furious Demise. Target the Weak also gives up to 12% additional critical chance (from the condis you're able to apply) depending on how many conditions are on your target.
• Chilled to the Bone is great because the pet can't dodge (guaranteed stab unless you whiff it completely) but Plaguelands is also a good survivability tool when the Soulbeast decides to engage in melee.
• You have a 10 second cooldown stunbreak + stab through Foot in the Grave. This is incredibly strong because it lets you stunbreak their Point Blank Shot every single time right after you get hit with the knockback if you don't have any dodges left. Since most Soulbeasts follow Point Blank Shot up with Rapid Fire, your Death's Charge will negate the projectiles right afterwards (and can continue to shut down Rapid Fire every single time they use it because DC's cooldown is 2 second lower). So, this will force them to dodge or get hit by a blind (extremely strong condition vs. longbow as they'll either miss their stealth/PBS or have to slowly auto attack or cleanse the condition first upon which you can just dodge the aforementioned LB3/LB4) and chill or if they dodge and attempt to stealth/knock you back afterwards, you can just dodge it. If you still have stab up from entering Shroud/Chilled to the Bone you might be immune to it anyways.
• You're also almost entirely immune to movement impairing conditions while in Reaper's Shroud because of Relentless Pursuit + Melandru Runes. Entering Shroud also cleanses all movement impairing conditions and grants you swiftness because of Speed of Shadows. In other words, you render several of the Soulbeast's kiting tools entirely useless on top of the build being naturally tanky with 2800 armor and 23k HP with very solid offensive stats and dodge uptime (from double Energy Sigils + Bowl of Orrian Truffle and Meat Stew, 40% endurance refill rate food) as well.

Coming from a PvPer who has mained Ranger since release, this build, played properly, would be extremely annoying to deal with. I'd have trouble dealing damage and kiting through all of the immunities/defenses. Well-timed Corrupt Boons

will

and

have

killed me against Reapers in the past while Corrosive Poison Cloud renders my longbow useless for the entire duration of the weapon swap as well as making it impossible for me and my pet to engage on you in melee.

Very well written post ?I can tell you’re a reaper pro.I use most of your points when I fight them too except for CPC. And also I’m usually full glass haha.I’m just miffed that I can land so many big hits against them but they can just shrug them off and win ?In one of the fights, I landed cttb, corrupted their stabs, fitg and shroud 2 at right times to negate their knock back rapid fire, landed shroud 3 and 5, dodged worldly impacts.But that ranger had high protection/boons uptime. And he kites well with multiple stealth to heal up. He barely took any damage even though I was full glass.And all this while his animal was kicking me from behind ?

Thank you! I've watched a few of your videos in the past. :)

The thing with ranger is that you generally won't be able to land a few big hits and kill them. The best builds run several stunbreaks.

Fortunately, ranger relies heavily on CC to set up enough damage for kills. It also can't facetank, nor does it trade effectively in melee range with (honestly) almost everything. As a result, ranger's kill pressure comes from landing small chunks of damage over and over again while burning through the enemies defenses by preserving our own defensive cooldowns for when we REALLY need to use them.

If you want to have a better shot at outlasting Soulbeasts (more opportunities to outplay) I'd suggest running the build I linked or something similar. Also, both greatsword and sword/warhorn can be punished pretty heavily during the non-evade frames. If you negate/dodge the stealth from longbow and avoid the knockback, the ranger will be at an extremely heavy disadvantage until their weapon swap comes off cooldown.

If you have any questions feel free to tag me or shoot me a dm on discord! I'll dm you my username.

[Sovereign.1093]

My druid is about to be born. Having reservations though. Huhu. Help me tele to a smoke scale in the future. Hehehehe