Unrank, 2vs2 Rank and Tournaments ? What's going on?
Off Season 2vs2 League was brought up a few months ago and yet not a word about this at all? We have been asking for 2vs2 for almost a year now, and yet this can't be added at all even though it's working well when you guys dropped it during a patch just to test run it.
Can we please for the love of god start making actual moves for the game mode aside of balance patches ? Swiss has taken FAR to long and now 2vs2 is taking WAY to long. Stop Holding this game mode back. We legit don't care if it's half kitten finish just give us SOMETHING TO DO once rank season ends. Unrank with it's random match making isn't even fun nor worth playing at all.
At the moment all we have is At's every few hours(great update), and Monthly Tournament once a Month now(should make it twice a month again). We need something to keep players entertained and kept busy. I Honestly can't understand What's so hard for the dev to understand that the hardcore players and even the casual players are tired of not having anything to do during the 2-3 week break.
Also not to mention we we're promised ToL(tournament of legends)More then Once for 2019 and that ALSO didn't happen at all. It's just shocking to know that MOST of the fun activities that are happening are based by small time guilds who are trying to give the community stuff to do but aren't even supported by anet because they aren't "partnered". If you Guy's don't play on doing much beside BALANCE patches then can we at least revamp the gw2 partnership and actually hand it out to players that are Doing something for the pvp community?
Huge rant but I can't be the only one getting tired of the same false promises and silly attempts to get the community "happy" for no reason. Instead of lacking communication with the community and going quiet for months why not share any and all updates made toward any of the stuff you guys keep telling us your working on?
Comments
Let's forget I said anything here..mmmkay?
That's the issue. Most of the stuff Announced have already been made and it's just sitting around either being untouched or not spoken about at all.
I couldn't really care less about swiss, but I totally agree on the 2's and 3's queue and partnership programs.
It really escapes me why the devs of this game are ALLERGIC to giving it proper visibility and support. It feels like they begrudgingly give out partnerships, if at all (which has zero cost to them and only fosters a better and larger community, and in some cases actually generates $ for them).
(#PartnerVallun)
Not only does Vallun have the following and viewership that would make use of a partnership, he plays all 3 game modes, has one of the highest AP in the entire game, and would be a fun alternative caster to "the Jebro" for the NA monthly mAT. Why is arena net against rewarding players that put effort into their game?
It may be an unpopular opinion but I simply do not care; Jebro doesn't even know who's playing in the finals while he is "casting" it, and I use that term extremely loosely as half of the finals matches are staring into the ground or watching some one leave spawn (as demonstrated in the last 3) and is one of if not the only option to watch for the NA mAT. Allow more people who stream your game to grow their streams @Anet, it is a win/win.
What does it take for the devs to speak? How hard is it to come on the forums, or reddit, or in twitch streams and actually talk about stuff? Are you going to try to convince me that every one's lives are too consumed, enveloped and fully scheduled with zero down time to have the ability to do that? I call kitten, it's obvious to any one with a brain that it's because there is a genuine disinterest. How is it a good idea for a company to remain silent to its audience and player base? Imagine if you owned a company and were silent to your shareholders, it's just a horrible take.
Imagine if the pvp devs showed up on the guildwars 2 official twitch and actually spoke to any of the pvp community instead of just watching people backpedal in pve and wvw. Imagine for a second, if the company actually wanted to engage its community in a way other than surface level fake positivity and "inclusiveness."
bump i want some answers
Soon TM
A lot of this stuff is actually in progress right now. Hopefully we'll be able to give more details soon. I'll give a somewhat vague status update on each one:
Big Balance Patch: First pass is basically done. Cmc is running through some last minute changes and it should start internal testing soon.
Swiss: Almost done (finally!). We ran an internal test on it right before the break and we're hoping to run some public tests in the nearish future. The last I saw of it, there were still some bugs that needed to be resolved. The extra gold for tournament wins not being distributed and some UI problems on the order of columns not lining up properly and tooltips and such. Tournaments themselves have some new bugs that we're looking into (rewards problems).
Mini-Seasons: This is giving us the ability to run alternate game mode short seasons. Code is being added to track additional rating types now! Basically, before we can do these, we need to make it so that your 2v2/3v3 skill rating is different from your conquest skill rating. In addition to that, we still need to set up rewards for them.
PvP/WvW new armorset: There are some art bugs that need fixed, but the the art is done for the most part. We're also adjusting the acquisition method. These probably won't just be tossed on the vendors like previous armors.
Large PvP map (15 on 15). The map itself has been done for a while. But we've decided to hold off on releasing it until we're able to get someone to make UI changes. Currently, the UI can't handle more than 10v10. Additionally, 10v10 UI is bad. It's just one large group rather than using the squad UI. Unfortunately, when the programmers looked into how difficult it would be to add squad functionality, it turned out the current way groups are handled in PvP makes it a difficult change. Basically, it might be easier for us to build a new solution that mimics squad functionality than to try to shoe-horn the current squad functionality into PvP.
Other stuff: There are some other things also being looked into, but since they haven't been previously talked about, I don't want to go into more detail at this time!
Well, this turned out to be a little more detailed than I planned, but that's where we stand right now. Hope this helps!
P.S. Yes, everything takes longer than we'd like to finish. We know.
Ben Phongluangtham
Design Manager
Thanks for the update. It keeps the playerbase happy. I think you already know this, but I'll say it anyway. We have REALLY big hopes for this upcoming balance patch. Please don't let us down. Also, pay attention to what professions / elite specs are "overused" during mATs... Indicator of what needs to be balanced & which professions need more representation
Ben, Thank you very much for responding and giving us the details we wanted/asked for.
M.V.P.
The patch is going to be .... sizable. So big that I don't think it's possible to predict everything. But the plan is to be as quick as possible with adjustments after the big one hits. Also keep in mind that it's going to be primarily splits. So there are some limits on what can be done.
Ben Phongluangtham
Design Manager
Now this is the kind of updates and communication I'm talking about! Thanks Ben!
Depression and anxiety are the worst...
That's appreciated, Thank you for the communication. Keep up the good work while we continue arguing.
The "Balance" is a fantasy -- another mortal superstition.
Just want to pop in and say heck yes to expanding the partner program, and heck no to partnering this specific person. It has been shown time and time again that they are not only "un-fun" to play with, but also breaks the TOS (not cheating, but in terms of language and behavior).
Not expanding past that on the forum, but just wanted to say HECK NO.
Is this 15 v 15 map for Conquest or will objectives be different in any way?
P.s. Thanks for all the work being put in and for the communication on progress. Looking forward to seeing the fruits of the labor.
If that map will be another conquest, I suggest to make 5 points to cap (to force split to at least to two groups).
Would be fun to see additional various map scenarios like:
EU: Makarow.3028 | NA: MakarowNA.3087 | Discord: Makarow#5536 | Charr Against Humanity [CAH]
No offense but I really hope wvw is the only and last pvp mode to see mounts.
yea like others i'm wondering what this is about. I hope its not some attempt to bring wvw players into pvp cuz they never will with how restrictive pvp amulets are. now if we had a set amount of points we could pour into any and each individual stat up to 2k... also please update team deathmatch and stronghold! they could be good fun but they have too many problems.
te lazla otstara.
fingers crossed meta ~
maybe that's why warclaw will get some adjustments to make it fit 15v15 mode...
The oldest and strongest emotion of mankind is fear, and the oldest and strongest kind of fear is fear of the unknown.
H. P. Lovecraft
Please, dont give me hope. Also on the subject of 3v3, do you think the current 2v2 maps are big enough to house 3v3? It might be worth looking into taking the 2v2 maps and expanding them abit for both modes (2v2/3v3) to use the?
Just to be clear, we don't even have an internal target on the UI changes we feel are needed. It could still never happen. The only reason I've mentioned it is because we talked about the map/15v15 in the past so it's something already public and the map itself is done.
The map was a snow map that was just an open area for death match. We've talked about possibly doing more in-depth stuff, but the first map is going to be very simple. If it turns out that the UI changes are going to take a long while (or not get done at all) we may just release the map as 10v10 in custom arenas. Though, I'm not sure how much it would get played.
Ben Phongluangtham
Design Manager
For 3v3, we would probably limit it to just Asura Arena. As I think it's big enough. Hallway probably isn't. Auric Span, maybe?
Ben Phongluangtham
Design Manager
If the UI is critical to the playability of the map, I suppose a public beta version wouldn't be viable.
If that ends up being an implausible undertaking, could a 15v15 version potentially work in the WvW ecosystem?
This is the first we've heard of a 15V15 map right? I'm personally really excited for that, and to see the 2V2 maps in game actually have a purpose.
I'd rather keep going.. wherever the wind takes us
That's understandable. I know that a lot of the stuff that sounds simple in theory doesn't necessarily turn out that way in practice since making a 15v15 game isn't as simple as just changing a setting for player size. I'm glad to hear that the goal of future PvP content isn't limited to Conquest, even if the technical limitations may restrict it that way for actual releases.
One other question: Would it ever be possible to have a deathmatch game mode without respawns? (I.e. similar to WoW arena mode)
I ask because I don't think the time limit/kill score format has worked out well, but I know that there may be technical limitations that led to this design since it's so similar to conquest.
The current 2v2 ruleset is deathmatch without respawn.
Ben Phongluangtham
Design Manager
Hey Ben, thanks for updates.
Can you tell us if 15 vs 15 will allow for Guild GvG challenges?
Because imo a big thing missing from Guild Wars 2 has been Guild Wars. Structured GvG would be a great addition to helping Guilds maintain some sense of community / Identity.
Realistically, probably not. The scope of the map was never meant to be a whole new mode. It was mainly to give another option in custom arenas and, if we get the UI changes we wanted, we could do special tournaments or mini-seasons with it. Getting a more in-depth system is likely off the table at this point. (I never say never, since priorities can change over time.)
Ben Phongluangtham
Design Manager
Another question if you have the time ben, so far in development what is the ruleset of the 15v15 map? Is it another form of conquest, is it deathmatch/ deathmatch without respawn or an entirely new ruleset?
Edit: found the mention of it being deathmatch nvm.
Maybe you should release it as a 10v10 as soon as possible and see if it is played enough to warrant continued work on a larger scale UI within the sPvP environment. The people who would prefer a 15v15 (or even larger within that environment) would be likely to adapt and try the map out along with anyone who wants a map that is more conducive 5v5 TDM and the like. It makes no sense to sit on it if it is ready for 1v1 - 10v10 gameplay, if 15v15 or larger could be iterated into it later on.
Especially if it's just squad UI functionality you are waiting on and not UI intergration for sluicing players onto the map (I presume that sPvP handles that stuff differently from PvE and WvW, so I can appreciate why it's vague). Regardless, the map and physical environment (eg., controls for how to let players onto "your" map) is far more important than things like a squad UI and if you have people play the map you will not only get effective feedback on the map itself and potential bugs within the physical environment but if they turn into a community with regular organized gameplay you can also tap that community for feedback/requests on the UI and related functions.
All in all, even if you just have a near-working system for 10v10 on a TDM-conducive map (and especially if you have a near-working system for putting more players on the map but not being able to put them in squads larger than 10 so they would have to make do with running multiple squads/parties) sitting on the map would be the worst option and makes no sense.
How to solve population balance
Q&A
What will it take to get the priorities going in the direction for these custom new UI changes? Community support cuz you got my +1 for it!!!
I mean I hope I matter. I do spend my fair share of money in the gem store so I kinda feel entitled but I know I shouldn't. I'm sorry.
If the map is large enough, I would recommend a lattice style system (tug-of-war) that would employ similar systems to Conquest capture points, but has more emphasis on centralized team fighting, with side objectives similar to Khylo or GW1 GvG maps, that would bring it very close to how a GvG style system would play out. ( A - B - C - B - A ) adjacent objectives must be capture first (no back/ghost capping)
Hopefully using a modified version of Conquest would be easier to create than a brand new mode all together.
Will the PvP 15v15 squad UI be designed such that it would also support even larger potential amounts in the future, i.e. up to 30v30 or greater?
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Okay someone has to ask the WvW update i.e. alliances etc any news on that.
Camon guys don't make Ben regret bringing this 15v15 map to the table ahah
I think that the map is was just designed to add something to pvp, it seems like it is not going to be an entire gamemode but just a map.
Which is already awesome, because we'll be able to have 15v15 GvGs with PvP balance. However I don't think that this will be real mode, just a map that allows that many ppl.
I didn’t realize that! I will have to give it a try since I’ve only tried the 5v5.
Is there any chance that we'll get a matchmaking queue (even if its not ranked) for 2v2 / 3v3 / 15v15 (if exist) mode? I'd like to play 2v2 but I don't have people to play with and also no rewards (only for the sake of battle) doesn't makes me feel to play it. But otherwise I'd really like to play it as another game mode. I'm not refering only for mini seasons, but permanent.
Looking forward to the changes!
Assuming patch notes will be put up beforehand so we can give feedback?
notes will be be put up but i doubt you will be able to give feedback, they've done this a cpuple of times and i dont think theyve changed something before the patch based on feedback, its moreso for ppl to read and start abjusting prior to the patch dropping.
So, for the last 5 years you`ve failed at balancing conquest and pretty much neglected it for whatever reason. You now decide to create a new map 15vs15. Not only will you spread the few players out even more, but in hindsight of you not being able to balance conquest, what makes you think adding a new game-type would help ? The more game types the harder to balance. Stronghold was such a solid idea, kappa.
Also, will your "big pvp patch pvp-team" take feedback afterwards and actually change things like you said on Facebook ?
Staleness does a better job at hurting/killing pvp than balance not really being all that great.
I hope wvw armor set would be better looking than pvp set what we have now and not as ugly as wvw legendary backpack.
People often cant differentiate between feedback being listened too and Anet doing what that person personally believes.
I heard that Alliances would be coming soon.... last year?
Yes. But "balance" does not equal "creating a new map with the exact same problems". You would know from other games, that having different game-modes creates balance-issues. Hell, even wvw and spvp have different balance sets as it is now. Instead of focusing on conquest they shift focus to yet another gamemode - which takes both players and resources from conquest. Im not saying 15vs15 cant be great, but when they cant balance 5vs5 i honestly dont see them succeeding in balancing yet another game mode.
I get the "id rather have a bad balance team than no balance team". Shouldnt be that way though.
Is there any info on what's the size of this map? ^^ Approx (maybe compared to guild hall arena, EotM arena or Obsidian Sanctum)
i just hope any tests are done by choosen real experienced players and not your favourite streamers again.
remember what happened to wvw desert borderlands when that blackgate public zerg with their streamer girl did the beta running around being more busy shouting „woooooooow“ at everything on stream rather than giving feedback for changes before release. after release it got the most unpopular map cause the beta test turned into a stream like it was a joghurt commercial...
tests should not be done for streaming advertise purpose. one of anets failures of the past. please learn of that.
I am quite interested in the changes mentioned by ben.
I am also a bit scared by the possible big size of the patch. I think the current balance, while slow did a good job. But it does give hope for some things(giving room for some specs or just the feeling of seeing something new) and I will be looking forward to it
15 VS 15 sounds like fun if there are objectives and it is not only fighting. (Will it be solo queue or guild friendly?) I think most of the community (myself included since I am almost a full solo queue player in PvP) is not ready for this but I definitly want to give it a try now that you mentioned it
(if it does not work I will still go to the classic pvp but I also like that you take this risk)
wow a 15 vs 15 mode!!
Will it have its own queue? because without a Queue its meaningless addition because group size wont be balanced.