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Unrank, 2vs2 Rank and Tournaments ? What's going on?


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  • ArenaNet Staff

@Dahkeus.8243 said:

@Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:Mini-Seasons: This is giving us the ability to run alternate game mode short seasons. Code is being added to track additional rating types now! Basically, before we can do these, we need to make it so that your 2v2/3v3 skill rating is different from your conquest skill rating. In addition to that, we still need to set up rewards for them.

Please, dont give me hope. Also on the subject of 3v3, do you think the current 2v2 maps are big enough to house 3v3? It might be worth looking into taking the 2v2 maps and expanding them abit for both modes (2v2/3v3) to use the?

For 3v3, we would probably limit it to just Asura Arena. As I think it's big enough. Hallway probably isn't. Auric Span, maybe?

One other question: Would it ever be possible to have a deathmatch game mode without respawns? (I.e. similar to WoW arena mode)

I ask because I don't think the time limit/kill score format has worked out well, but I know that there may be technical limitations that led to this design since it's so similar to conquest.

The current 2v2 ruleset is deathmatch without respawn.

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@Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:

Large PvP map (15 on 15). The map itself has been done for a while. But we've decided to hold off on releasing it until we're able to get someone to make UI changes. Currently, the UI can't handle more than 10v10. Additionally, 10v10 UI is bad. It's just one large group rather than using the squad UI. Unfortunately, when the programmers looked into how difficult it would be to add squad functionality, it turned out the current way groups are handled in PvP makes it a difficult change. Basically, it might be easier for us to build a new solution that mimics squad functionality than to try to shoe-horn the current squad functionality into PvP.

Hey Ben, thanks for updates.

Can you tell us if 15 vs 15 will allow for Guild GvG challenges?

Because imo a big thing missing from Guild Wars 2 has been Guild Wars. Structured GvG would be a great addition to helping Guilds maintain some sense of community / Identity.

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@Master Ketsu.4569 said:

Large PvP map (15 on 15). The map itself has been done for a while. But we've decided to hold off on releasing it until we're able to get someone to make UI changes. Currently, the UI can't handle more than 10v10. Additionally, 10v10 UI is bad. It's just one large group rather than using the squad UI. Unfortunately, when the programmers looked into how difficult it would be to add squad functionality, it turned out the current way groups are handled in PvP makes it a difficult change. Basically, it might be easier for us to build a new solution that mimics squad functionality than to try to shoe-horn the current squad functionality into PvP.

Hey Ben, thanks for updates.

Can you tell us if 15 vs 15 will allow for Guild GvG challenges?

Because imo a big thing missing from Guild Wars 2 has been Guild Wars. Structured GvG would be a great addition to helping Guilds maintain some sense of community / Identity.

Realistically, probably not. The scope of the map was never meant to be a whole new mode. It was mainly to give another option in custom arenas and, if we get the UI changes we wanted, we could do special tournaments or mini-seasons with it. Getting a more in-depth system is likely off the table at this point. (I never say never, since priorities can change over time.)

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@Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:

@Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:Mini-Seasons: This is giving us the ability to run alternate game mode short seasons. Code is being added to track additional rating types now! Basically, before we can do these, we need to make it so that your 2v2/3v3 skill rating is different from your conquest skill rating. In addition to that, we still need to set up rewards for them.

Please, dont give me hope. Also on the subject of 3v3, do you think the current 2v2 maps are big enough to house 3v3? It might be worth looking into taking the 2v2 maps and expanding them abit for both modes (2v2/3v3) to use the?

For 3v3, we would probably limit it to just Asura Arena. As I think it's big enough. Hallway probably isn't. Auric Span, maybe?

Another question if you have the time ben, so far in development what is the ruleset of the 15v15 map? Is it another form of conquest, is it deathmatch/ deathmatch without respawn or an entirely new ruleset?

Edit: found the mention of it being deathmatch nvm.

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@"Ben Phongluangtham.1065" said:Just to be clear, we don't even have an internal target on the UI changes we feel are needed. It could still never happen. The only reason I've mentioned it is because we talked about the map/15v15 in the past so it's something already public and the map itself is done.

The map was a snow map that was just an open area for death match. We've talked about possibly doing more in-depth stuff, but the first map is going to be very simple. If it turns out that the UI changes are going to take a long while (or not get done at all) we may just release the map as 10v10 in custom arenas. Though, I'm not sure how much it would get played.Maybe you should release it as a 10v10 as soon as possible and see if it is played enough to warrant continued work on a larger scale UI within the sPvP environment. The people who would prefer a 15v15 (or even larger within that environment) would be likely to adapt and try the map out along with anyone who wants a map that is more conducive 5v5 TDM and the like. It makes no sense to sit on it if it is ready for 1v1 - 10v10 gameplay, if 15v15 or larger could be iterated into it later on.

Especially if it's just squad UI functionality you are waiting on and not UI intergration for sluicing players onto the map (I presume that sPvP handles that stuff differently from PvE and WvW, so I can appreciate why it's vague). Regardless, the map and physical environment (eg., controls for how to let players onto "your" map) is far more important than things like a squad UI and if you have people play the map you will not only get effective feedback on the map itself and potential bugs within the physical environment but if they turn into a community with regular organized gameplay you can also tap that community for feedback/requests on the UI and related functions.

All in all, even if you just have a near-working system for 10v10 on a TDM-conducive map (and especially if you have a near-working system for putting more players on the map but not being able to put them in squads larger than 10 so they would have to make do with running multiple squads/parties) sitting on the map would be the worst option and makes no sense.

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@Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:

Large PvP map (15 on 15). The map itself has been done for a while. But we've decided to hold off on releasing it until we're able to get someone to make UI changes. Currently, the UI can't handle more than 10v10. Additionally, 10v10 UI is bad. It's just one large group rather than using the squad UI. Unfortunately, when the programmers looked into how difficult it would be to add squad functionality, it turned out the current way groups are handled in PvP makes it a difficult change. Basically, it might be easier for us to build a new solution that mimics squad functionality than to try to shoe-horn the current squad functionality into PvP.

Hey Ben, thanks for updates.

Can you tell us if 15 vs 15 will allow for Guild GvG challenges?

Because imo a big thing missing from Guild Wars 2 has been Guild Wars. Structured GvG would be a great addition to helping Guilds maintain some sense of community / Identity.

Realistically, probably not. The scope of the map was never meant to be a whole new mode. It was mainly to give another option in custom arenas and, if we get the UI changes we wanted, we could do special tournaments or mini-seasons with it. Getting a more in-depth system is likely off the table at this point. (I never say never, since priorities can change over time.)

What will it take to get the priorities going in the direction for these custom new UI changes? Community support cuz you got my +1 for it!!!

I mean I hope I matter. I do spend my fair share of money in the gem store so I kinda feel entitled but I know I shouldn't. I'm sorry.

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@Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:

@Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:Large PvP map (15 on 15). The map itself has been done for a while. But we've decided to hold off on releasing it until we're able to get someone to make UI changes. Currently, the UI can't handle more than 10v10. Additionally, 10v10 UI is bad. It's just one large group rather than using the squad UI. Unfortunately, when the programmers looked into how difficult it would be to add squad functionality, it turned out the current way groups are handled in PvP makes it a difficult change. Basically, it might be easier for us to build a new solution that mimics squad functionality than to try to shoe-horn the current squad functionality into PvP.

Is this 15 v 15 map for Conquest or will objectives be different in any way?

P.s. Thanks for all the work being put in and for the communication on progress. Looking forward to seeing the fruits of the labor.

Just to be clear, we don't even have an internal target on the UI changes we feel are needed. It could still never happen. The only reason I've mentioned it is because we talked about the map/15v15 in the past so it's something already public and the map itself is done.

The map was a snow map that was just an open area for death match. We've talked about possibly doing more in-depth stuff, but the first map is going to be very simple. If it turns out that the UI changes are going to take a long while (or not get done at all) we may just release the map as 10v10 in custom arenas. Though, I'm not sure how much it would get played.

If the map is large enough, I would recommend a lattice style system (tug-of-war) that would employ similar systems to Conquest capture points, but has more emphasis on centralized team fighting, with side objectives similar to Khylo or GW1 GvG maps, that would bring it very close to how a GvG style system would play out. ( A - B - C - B - A ) adjacent objectives must be capture first (no back/ghost capping)

Hopefully using a modified version of Conquest would be easier to create than a brand new mode all together.

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Camon guys don't make Ben regret bringing this 15v15 map to the table ahahI think that the map is was just designed to add something to pvp, it seems like it is not going to be an entire gamemode but just a map.Which is already awesome, because we'll be able to have 15v15 GvGs with PvP balance. However I don't think that this will be real mode, just a map that allows that many ppl.

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@Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:

@Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:Mini-Seasons: This is giving us the ability to run alternate game mode short seasons. Code is being added to track additional rating types now! Basically, before we can do these, we need to make it so that your 2v2/3v3 skill rating is different from your conquest skill rating. In addition to that, we still need to set up rewards for them.

Please, dont give me hope. Also on the subject of 3v3, do you think the current 2v2 maps are big enough to house 3v3? It might be worth looking into taking the 2v2 maps and expanding them abit for both modes (2v2/3v3) to use the?

For 3v3, we would probably limit it to just Asura Arena. As I think it's big enough. Hallway probably isn't. Auric Span, maybe?

One other question: Would it ever be possible to have a deathmatch game mode without respawns? (I.e. similar to WoW arena mode)

I ask because I don't think the time limit/kill score format has worked out well, but I know that there may be technical limitations that led to this design since it's so similar to conquest.

The current 2v2 ruleset is deathmatch without respawn.

@Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:Mini-Seasons: This is giving us the ability to run alternate game mode short seasons. Code is being added to track additional rating types now! Basically, before we can do these, we need to make it so that your 2v2/3v3 skill rating is different from your conquest skill rating. In addition to that, we still need to set up rewards for them.

Please, dont give me hope. Also on the subject of 3v3, do you think the current 2v2 maps are big enough to house 3v3? It might be worth looking into taking the 2v2 maps and expanding them abit for both modes (2v2/3v3) to use the?

For 3v3, we would probably limit it to just Asura Arena. As I think it's big enough. Hallway probably isn't. Auric Span, maybe?

One other question: Would it ever be possible to have a deathmatch game mode without respawns? (I.e. similar to WoW arena mode)

I ask because I don't think the time limit/kill score format has worked out well, but I know that there may be technical limitations that led to this design since it's so similar to conquest.

The current 2v2 ruleset is deathmatch without respawn.

I didn’t realize that! I will have to give it a try since I’ve only tried the 5v5.

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Is there any chance that we'll get a matchmaking queue (even if its not ranked) for 2v2 / 3v3 / 15v15 (if exist) mode? I'd like to play 2v2 but I don't have people to play with and also no rewards (only for the sake of battle) doesn't makes me feel to play it. But otherwise I'd really like to play it as another game mode. I'm not refering only for mini seasons, but permanent.

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@Vegeta.2563 said:

Big Balance Patch: First pass is basically done. Cmc is running through some last minute changes and it should start internal testing soon.

Assuming patch notes will be put up beforehand so we can give feedback?

notes will be be put up but i doubt you will be able to give feedback, they've done this a cpuple of times and i dont think theyve changed something before the patch based on feedback, its moreso for ppl to read and start abjusting prior to the patch dropping.

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So, for the last 5 years you`ve failed at balancing conquest and pretty much neglected it for whatever reason. You now decide to create a new map 15vs15. Not only will you spread the few players out even more, but in hindsight of you not being able to balance conquest, what makes you think adding a new game-type would help ? The more game types the harder to balance. Stronghold was such a solid idea, kappa.

Also, will your "big pvp patch pvp-team" take feedback afterwards and actually change things like you said on Facebook ?

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@"Malsheem.1794" said:So, for the last 5 years you`ve failed at balancing conquest and pretty much neglected it for whatever reason. You now decide to create a new map 15vs15. Not only will you spread the few players out even more, but in hindsight of you not being able to balance conquest, what makes you think adding a new game-type would help ? The more game types the harder to balance. Stronghold was such a solid idea, kappa.

Also, will your "big pvp patch pvp-team" take feedback afterwards and actually change things like you said on Facebook ?

Staleness does a better job at hurting/killing pvp than balance not really being all that great.

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@Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:

PvP/WvW new armorset: There are some art bugs that need fixed, but the the art is done for the most part. We're also adjusting the acquisition method. These probably won't just be tossed on the vendors like previous armors.

I hope wvw armor set would be better looking than pvp set what we have now and not as ugly as wvw legendary backpack.

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@zealex.9410 said:

@"Malsheem.1794" said:So, for the last 5 years you`ve failed at balancing conquest and pretty much neglected it for whatever reason. You now decide to create a new map 15vs15. Not only will you spread the few players out even more, but in hindsight of you not being able to balance conquest, what makes you think adding a new game-type would help ? The more game types the harder to balance. Stronghold was such a solid idea, kappa.

Also, will your "big pvp patch pvp-team" take feedback afterwards and actually change things like you said on Facebook ?

Staleness does a better job at hurting/killing pvp than balance not really being all that great.

Yes. But "balance" does not equal "creating a new map with the exact same problems". You would know from other games, that having different game-modes creates balance-issues. Hell, even wvw and spvp have different balance sets as it is now. Instead of focusing on conquest they shift focus to yet another gamemode - which takes both players and resources from conquest. Im not saying 15vs15 cant be great, but when they cant balance 5vs5 i honestly dont see them succeeding in balancing yet another game mode.

I get the "id rather have a bad balance team than no balance team". Shouldnt be that way though.

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@Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:

Large PvP map (15 on 15). The map itself has been done for a while. But we've decided to hold off on releasing it until we're able to get someone to make UI changes. Currently, the UI can't handle more than 10v10. Additionally, 10v10 UI is bad. It's just one large group rather than using the squad UI. Unfortunately, when the programmers looked into how difficult it would be to add squad functionality, it turned out the current way groups are handled in PvP makes it a difficult change. Basically, it might be easier for us to build a new solution that mimics squad functionality than to try to shoe-horn the current squad functionality into PvP.

Hey Ben, thanks for updates.

Can you tell us if 15 vs 15 will allow for Guild GvG challenges?

Because imo a big thing missing from Guild Wars 2 has been Guild Wars. Structured GvG would be a great addition to helping Guilds maintain some sense of community / Identity.

Realistically, probably not. The scope of the map was never meant to be a whole new mode. It was mainly to give another option in custom arenas and, if we get the UI changes we wanted, we could do special tournaments or mini-seasons with it. Getting a more in-depth system is likely off the table at this point. (I never say never, since priorities can change over time.)

Is there any info on what's the size of this map? ^^ Approx (maybe compared to guild hall arena, EotM arena or Obsidian Sanctum)

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i just hope any tests are done by choosen real experienced players and not your favourite streamers again.

remember what happened to wvw desert borderlands when that blackgate public zerg with their streamer girl did the beta running around being more busy shouting „woooooooow“ at everything on stream rather than giving feedback for changes before release. after release it got the most unpopular map cause the beta test turned into a stream like it was a joghurt commercial...

tests should not be done for streaming advertise purpose. one of anets failures of the past. please learn of that.

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I am quite interested in the changes mentioned by ben.I am also a bit scared by the possible big size of the patch. I think the current balance, while slow did a good job. But it does give hope for some things(giving room for some specs or just the feeling of seeing something new) and I will be looking forward to it :)

15 VS 15 sounds like fun if there are objectives and it is not only fighting. (Will it be solo queue or guild friendly?) I think most of the community (myself included since I am almost a full solo queue player in PvP) is not ready for this but I definitly want to give it a try now that you mentioned it :smiley: (if it does not work I will still go to the classic pvp but I also like that you take this risk)

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