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Will Charr become hostile again once dragons are gone?


Bron.9647

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It's not modeled on just the Roman Empire however, it draws heavily from the Mongolians, and in this case it's more modern military culture is drawing heavily on Fascist ideologies, it's not like the Romans themselves weren't the basis for fascist ideals in any capacity regardless. There is a very good reason why Mussolini wanted to invoke a lot of what Rome had built for his imperial ambitions.

Likewise the notion that a culture cannot be evil or destructive just because a prominent racist like Winston Churchill believed in the idea is silly, a lot of different cultures thought other nations had destructive tendencies and to varying degrees they were correct. I certainly don't believe my own peoples tradition of drinking snake bile and consuming raw hearts to prove their manhood is even slightly healthy, to the opposite, it speaks to a nation that needs a person to constantly improve their masculinity. That's alienating and self destructive, and in the case of certain nations similar ideals have lead to belief systems that resulted in heinous crimes against their neighbors as well as themselves.

I'm going to take a quote from General Morghan in Nightfall here 'All war is an atrocity' and few are more through in their interpretation of evil then the Charr legions. As the Olmakhan themselves point out, in the absence of humanity they would continue to fight and kill anyone they encountered because their entire society was based on warfare and domination, to anyone with eyes the Charr were their own worst enemies and when everything else on Tyria was dead they would then exterminate each other until nothing was left. This is not a healthy way to run a society, this isn't even a sane way to run a society.

I don't think Arenanet is ignorant of the fact the Charr have made the centerpiece of their society that atrocity. Rytlock is the first in a new generation of Charr who question the old ways, the constant need to hate and kill the 'other' for their own personal gain and to sequester their children into military camps to fuel a war machine, and his ideologies are coming to a head with Bangar who is practically the embodiment of Legion psychosis and paranoia. It benefits Bangar to perpetuate these systems to keep himself in power and continue this nonsense 'tradition' of fighting and killing one another for rank and might makes right, he's an animal entirely driven by rage, hatred, and most importantly fear.

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@Loesh.4697 said:It's not modeled on just the Roman Empire however, it draws heavily from the Mongolians, and in this case it's more modern military culture is drawing heavily on Fascist ideologies, it's not like the Romans themselves weren't the basis for fascist ideals in any capacity regardless. There is a very good reason why Mussolini wanted to invoke a lot of what Rome had built for his imperial ambitions.

Also don't forget the eagle standards carried by the Roman legions were co-opted by the Nazis. Yet another cool bit of heraldry ruined by that period of history.

I agree that Rytlock and Bangar seem to be set up as possible future vs. clinging to the old ways. I also like that this has been something of a slow burn set up by the writers. And it isn't just about the Olmakhan either; we hear in Grothmar that parents checking in on their cubs is a regular occurrence, so there's likely a long-simmering discomfort with the Legion structure, even for charr who aren't quite as outside their system as Rytlock or the Olmakhan (or any of the Pact charr who genuinely like and respect their non-charr colleagues).

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@voltaicbore.8012 said:

@Loesh.4697 said:It's not modeled on
just
the Roman Empire however, it draws heavily from the Mongolians, and in this case it's more modern military culture is drawing heavily on Fascist ideologies, it's not like the Romans themselves weren't the basis for fascist ideals in any capacity regardless. There is a very good reason why Mussolini wanted to invoke a lot of what
Rome
had built for his imperial ambitions.

Also don't forget the eagle standards carried by the Roman legions were co-opted by the kitten. Yet another cool bit of heraldry ruined by that period of history.

I agree that Rytlock and Bangar seem to be set up as possible future vs. clinging to the old ways. I also like that this has been something of a slow burn set up by the writers. And it isn't just about the Olmakhan either; we hear in Grothmar that parents checking in on their cubs is a regular occurrence, so there's likely a long-simmering discomfort with the Legion structure, even for charr who aren't quite as outside their system as Rytlock or the Olmakhan (or any of the Pact charr who genuinely like and respect their non-charr colleagues).

Pretty much, I generally put the blame for Charr society being this way on the higher ups, not on the grunts. By and large the rank and file of the Legions are a lot more empathetic then their tribunes and Centurions would probably like. Grothmar isn't even the first time we've had hints of Charr cubs being a particular sticking point for their people, we had stories about it as early as the core game.

TL:DR: Ever since the Ebonhawke ceasefire this has been a long time coming, something had to break eventually.

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@Redavv.2643 said:It will make a heck of a new story imagine if there is no dragon threat anymore and races start to fight each other and blame each other for various reasons all old alliances will be broken and then OPEN WORLD PVP hahaha. we could have a system that a players would speak to an NPC and declare which race would like to support and when he or she enters open wolrd could become OVERT which means he could be attacked by another OVERT player . If he or she does not like to enter the open world in that state could speak to the NPC and become COVERT..

That would revitilise the game i believe and fun things will happen :D

it would completely kill the game. Openworld PVP is the worst thing that could happen to gw2.

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@"VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.3618" said:

@Redavv.2643 said:It will make a heck of a new story imagine if there is no dragon threat anymore and races start to fight each other and blame each other for various reasons all old alliances will be broken and then OPEN WORLD PVP hahaha. we could have a system that a players would speak to an NPC and declare which race would like to support and when he or she enters open wolrd could become OVERT which means he could be attacked by another OVERT player . If he or she does not like to enter the open world in that state could speak to the NPC and become COVERT..

That would revitilise the game i believe and fun things will happen :D

it would completely kill the game. Openworld PVP is the worst thing that could happen to gw2.

I mean, WvW is a thing. But I get what you mean. If it were confined to certain areas it wouldn't be so bad.

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I doubt we will ever get as far as to see what awaits "after the dragons." They need to start from scratch if they want to turn the wheel around. Of course, I wouldn't mind being proven wrong. ;) Those upcoming scrying pool vision stories sound hopeful...

(Off to playing Pillars of Eternity until the next content patch.)

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@CETheLucid.3964 said:

@"VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.3618" said:

@Redavv.2643 said:It will make a heck of a new story imagine if there is no dragon threat anymore and races start to fight each other and blame each other for various reasons all old alliances will be broken and then OPEN WORLD PVP hahaha. we could have a system that a players would speak to an NPC and declare which race would like to support and when he or she enters open wolrd could become OVERT which means he could be attacked by another OVERT player . If he or she does not like to enter the open world in that state could speak to the NPC and become COVERT..

That would revitilise the game i believe and fun things will happen :D

it would completely kill the game. Openworld PVP is the worst thing that could happen to gw2.

I mean, WvW is a thing. But I get what you mean. If it were confined to certain areas it wouldn't be so bad.

it is already confind to certain areas. Alpine Borderlands (2x), Desert Borderland, Eternal Battlegrounds, Edge of the mists, Obsidian Sanctum.

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@CETheLucid.3964 said:

@"VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.3618" said:

@"Redavv.2643" said:It will make a heck of a new story imagine if there is no dragon threat anymore and races start to fight each other and blame each other for various reasons all old alliances will be broken and then OPEN WORLD PVP hahaha. we could have a system that a players would speak to an NPC and declare which race would like to support and when he or she enters open wolrd could become OVERT which means he could be attacked by another OVERT player . If he or she does not like to enter the open world in that state could speak to the NPC and become COVERT..

That would revitilise the game i believe and fun things will happen :D

it would completely kill the game. Openworld PVP is the worst thing that could happen to gw2.

I mean, WvW is a thing. But I get what you mean. If it were confined to certain areas it wouldn't be so bad.

WvW isn't really "open world PvP", since there's nothing to do in WvW except PvP objectives.

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@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

@"Bron.9647" said:I've been thinking about this for a few days and I feel like the way the Charr society is structured, they NEED an enemy to focus on.

That's pretty much the entire pretense of Bound by Blood prologue, and we're basically seeing what happens when the charr don't have any more enemies to fight. Bangar "going after Jormag" isn't the most recent example, it's the outcome of what ends up happening. With no common enemy to fight, he's seeing old enemies turned allies as enemies again, and sees them as having an overwhelming advantage (charr divided into four, the "enemy" has an Elder Dragon ally) so he's pushing to reunite the four Legions and tame his own Elder Dragon.

In effect, when faced with no enemies, they
make
an enemy.
And this ends up dividing the charr race between those who can move on from needing an enemy, and those who can't (who've mostly joined Bangar and the Renegades by this point)
.

I suspect that Bangar understood this. He knows that he is the only important leader not able to change, in contrast with Rhytlock, Crecia, Smodur, Malice who are (Smodur and Malice at least in appearance) favorable to a change in the Charr mentality. Even the Flame Legion leaders are more inclined to find peace than to fight. He accepted in his inner self that the times changed and the Charrs need to give up the old ways - aka war with any enemy, real or invented. But he cannot simply leave the scene. He seeks an end fitted with his reputation - fighting to the end against "the enemy".

@"Dante.1763" said:

I predict that for the most all the Charr that -need- an enemy to focus on will follow Bangar. Theyll either end up being converted to Jormags minions(and killed), or see the error of their ways in the end when they realize its not the way forward for their species as a whole(probably unlikely, i totally see the vast majority getting killed off in this saga due to Bangar.). Leaving the Charr as a species filled with alot of cooler headed individuals(of which weve seen examples already).

I agree that this can be a logical follow-up. The last service Bangar brings to the Charrs - cleaning their society of the "old school" unable to change members.

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@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

@"VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.3618" said:

@"Redavv.2643" said:It will make a heck of a new story imagine if there is no dragon threat anymore and races start to fight each other and blame each other for various reasons all old alliances will be broken and then OPEN WORLD PVP hahaha. we could have a system that a players would speak to an NPC and declare which race would like to support and when he or she enters open wolrd could become OVERT which means he could be attacked by another OVERT player . If he or she does not like to enter the open world in that state could speak to the NPC and become COVERT..

That would revitilise the game i believe and fun things will happen :D

it would completely kill the game. Openworld PVP is the worst thing that could happen to gw2.

I mean, WvW is a thing. But I get what you mean. If it were confined to certain areas it wouldn't be so bad.

WvW isn't really "open world PvP", since there's nothing to do in WvW except PvP objectives.

you mean apart from the dolyaks, the keeps, towers, camps, guards, sentries, vet creatures, ...

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@"VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.3618" said:

@"VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.3618" said:

@"Redavv.2643" said:It will make a heck of a new story imagine if there is no dragon threat anymore and races start to fight each other and blame each other for various reasons all old alliances will be broken and then OPEN WORLD PVP hahaha. we could have a system that a players would speak to an NPC and declare which race would like to support and when he or she enters open wolrd could become OVERT which means he could be attacked by another OVERT player . If he or she does not like to enter the open world in that state could speak to the NPC and become COVERT..

That would revitilise the game i believe and fun things will happen :D

it would completely kill the game. Openworld PVP is the worst thing that could happen to gw2.

I mean, WvW is a thing. But I get what you mean. If it were confined to certain areas it wouldn't be so bad.

WvW isn't really "open world PvP", since there's nothing to do in WvW except PvP objectives.

you mean apart from the dolyaks, the keeps, towers, camps, guards, sentries, vet creatures, ...

Ah, right, how silly of me to forget that the one and only form of PvP is "deathmatch".

It's not like there's king of the hill, capture the flag, and so many other kinds of PvP designs out there that includes NPCs, escorts, and objectives.

How silly of me.

/s

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@"VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.3618" said:well, go to eotm. It is basically openworld pvp. Plenty of events to do, if you dont want to fight people.

That's not open world PvP, since all those events are still all PvP oriented objectives and capture points (nor, btw, am I advocating for it; just pointing out that GW2 doesn't have any form of open world PvP).

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