What is the point of heavy/medium/light armor?

[SeikeNz.3526]

@RedShark.9548 said:

@SeikeNz.3526 said:

@RedShark.9548 said:

@SeikeNz.3526 said:

@RedShark.9548 said:

@SeikeNz.3526 said:

@RedShark.9548 said:

@SeikeNz.3526 said:

@RedShark.9548 said:

@Hannelore.8153 said:Its not effective right now, that's true, I think it affects PvE and WvW more than PvP though, because PvP is entirely skill-based play whereas in other gamemodes you have to rely more on surviving haphazard spam, etc which is where passive defense really shines. The larger and more noisey the fight, the less you can rely on dodges, evades, blocks and blinds and the more you need passives.

I think that, at least in WvW, the minimum average armor rating should be 30%.. but maybe it's okay in PvP as it is ? The bigger problem is the extreme health disparity between classes which is completely rediculous (and always was..).

Taking into account base health, Warrior has ~60% effective damage resistance compared to Ele..

Yes, give ele 19k hp baseline.We will never see a downed ele anymore, because they have so much dmg mitigation and ways to heal themselfes back up. Same with guards.

Oh also eles are ranged and can kite hardcore, while warrior is basically a full melee class (and no, rifle is not a viable weapon on war)

Also, thieves max hp, to never be bursted down and always reset the fight.

so ele ranged is viable and warrior not? :o

Obviously, have you ever set a foot into wvw? Staff is a thing.Even fresh air is using scepter, which is ranged.

wvw? this is spvp forumwhere staff ele is a thing? also rifle warrior is viable doing 18k crits, just one trick ponny

And one trick ponys are generally not meta and thus not viable, so my point stands, rifle is not viable.

Ive just checked metabattle, and there is a staff support build on the site, also scepter builds, like i said.

You ignored my scepter comment completely.

Btw no rifle metawarrior on there

thinking

i ignored because scepter ele is a joke same as rifle warrior

Ok, great argument, yikes, thank goodness ppl like you are not making the balance decisions

what was your argument, metabattle? lmao

I made points on why ele has less hp than warrior, you argued that my points were wrong without giving any proof i provided more arguments to proof my points, you havent done anything to disprove mine.

And yes metabattle, because it generally gives a good starting point to what is played and what isnt.

You obviously have a great understanding of pvp and everybody else is factually wrong when they disagree with you, you dont need facts and points to be right, everybody should just listen to your opinion, and thus this will be my last reply to you.

Have a great day :)

im not even talking about hp lol, talking about toughness, i agree with the hp sentences ;), but if you need metabattle to understand builds you cant say that you have great understanding of pvp

[RedShark.9548]

@SeikeNz.3526 said:

@RedShark.9548 said:

@SeikeNz.3526 said:

@RedShark.9548 said:

@SeikeNz.3526 said:

@RedShark.9548 said:

@SeikeNz.3526 said:

@RedShark.9548 said:

@SeikeNz.3526 said:

@RedShark.9548 said:

@"Hannelore.8153" said:Its not effective right now, that's true, I think it affects PvE and WvW more than PvP though, because PvP is entirely skill-based play whereas in other gamemodes you have to rely more on surviving haphazard spam, etc which is where passive defense really shines. The larger and more noisey the fight, the less you can rely on dodges, evades, blocks and blinds and the more you need passives.

I think that, at least in WvW, the minimum average armor rating should be 30%.. but maybe it's okay in PvP as it is ? The bigger problem is the extreme health disparity between classes which is completely rediculous (and always was..).

Taking into account base health, Warrior has ~60% effective damage resistance compared to Ele..

Yes, give ele 19k hp baseline.We will never see a downed ele anymore, because they have so much dmg mitigation and ways to heal themselfes back up. Same with guards.

Oh also eles are ranged and can kite hardcore, while warrior is basically a full melee class (and no, rifle is not a viable weapon on war)

Also, thieves max hp, to never be bursted down and always reset the fight.

so ele ranged is viable and warrior not? :o

Obviously, have you ever set a foot into wvw? Staff is a thing.Even fresh air is using scepter, which is ranged.

wvw? this is spvp forumwhere staff ele is a thing? also rifle warrior is viable doing 18k crits, just one trick ponny

And one trick ponys are generally not meta and thus not viable, so my point stands, rifle is not viable.

Ive just checked metabattle, and there is a staff support build on the site, also scepter builds, like i said.

You ignored my scepter comment completely.

Btw no rifle metawarrior on there

thinking

i ignored because scepter ele is a joke same as rifle warrior

Ok, great argument, yikes, thank goodness ppl like you are not making the balance decisions

what was your argument, metabattle? lmao

I made points on why ele has less hp than warrior, you argued that my points were wrong without giving any proof i provided more arguments to proof my points, you havent done anything to disprove mine.

And yes metabattle, because it generally gives a good starting point to what is played and what isnt.

You obviously have a great understanding of pvp and everybody else is factually wrong when they disagree with you, you dont need facts and points to be right, everybody should just listen to your opinion, and thus this will be my last reply to you.

Have a great day :)

im not even talking about hp lol, talking about toughness, i agree with the hp sentences ;), but if you need metabattle to understand builds you cant say that you have great understanding of pvp

Omg you are so kitten that i honestly have to reply again.I know that your original post was about armor, but the post i was replying to was about hp, and you replied to my hp post, so we are talking about hp (maybe offtopic, but who cares) .Maybe you should read and think about it before you reply.

I never stated i use metabattle to understand a build. I use metabattle to get an understanding of what ppl play, because im not that high up on my horse to think that i know about every possible build for each individual class. Assuming that would be nuts. I use other sources outside of my own brain, because most of the time you wont be able to figure out every possible way to play or in general find every possible solution to fix a problem.

Metabattle might not always have the best and refinded builds but it gives a good outline to what is played and viable, just because you think some of them are bad and "jokes" doesnt mean that they are, and that other ppl dont use them successfully

[Chyro.1462]

Not sure if this is because of the different armors...But it feels like with my holo knight (medium armor) I can just jump at enemies, deal damage, kill them and still be plenty healthy.With my tempest ele (light armor) if I jump in, I still manage to kill the enemies, but have to put way more effort to get fury/might through combos and end up with over half my hp gone. (I prefer dagger playstyle (fresh air) in melee over ranged casting)

edit: .. only noticed after posting that this is about PvP, not PvE. derp. (came to the topic from a google search link)

[Arheundel.6451]

@Ragnar.4257 said:

@Eddbopkins.2630 said:To me the only point to different armor classes is to have some classes innately be better off then other classes. There is no rym or reason as to why all the classes have different armor values in PvP. At least to me.

You don't think light classes have other advantages that heavy classes don't have?

You know, different strengths and weaknesses? Trade-offs?

To make it so there is some variety in the game? So that everything isn't boring and homogeneous?

You think heavy classes are just better than light in every single way?

???

Its not like light classes have dominated the meta at various points in the last 7 years. Noooooo. Because heavy classes are innately better. Right? That's why every single tournament has featured only heavy classes, literally nobody ever plays a light class. Not once, in 7 years.

The meta where literally everyone was playing 5x celestial Elementalist. That didn't happen. Because light classes are innately worse. Right?

There is literally nothing a Weaver or Mirage or Reaper has that can POSSIBLY overcome that god-mode 300 toughness difference. They might as well just log out.

....

Nice of you to list celestial ele instead than simply ele yes....that's the main difference , as somebody who actually play both classes actively let me explain : on guardian I don't need to worry about healing stats....because the class has access to powerful heal burst on 1.9k base healing at 0 healing power ( meditations ) or can use Honor and still have enough sustain with symbol spam at 0 healing power. The dmg modifiers of guardian are like 3x higher than ele...reason I save up some stats compared to ele and still do 3x more dmg while being 3x easier to play in the same role

Yah..on ele you must alway stuck healing stats to have any sort of sustain...it's the only class you're forced to do that...also your hyperbolic comments 5x cele team..lol..it was once a team won with 4 eles and a thief; meanwhile in ranked few months before you would face 3 dh per team (pre nerf traps) and right now in pve you have 7 dh out of 10 people for raids.

You could jump on ele right now...you could play fire weaver...and I still would come on top as guardian, people who don't multiclass cannot give accurate an intra-class analysis, that's your issue

[Arheundel.6451]

@RedShark.9548 said:

@SeikeNz.3526 said:

@RedShark.9548 said:

@SeikeNz.3526 said:

@RedShark.9548 said:

@SeikeNz.3526 said:

@RedShark.9548 said:

@SeikeNz.3526 said:

@RedShark.9548 said:

@SeikeNz.3526 said:

@RedShark.9548 said:

@"Hannelore.8153" said:Its not effective right now, that's true, I think it affects PvE and WvW more than PvP though, because PvP is entirely skill-based play whereas in other gamemodes you have to rely more on surviving haphazard spam, etc which is where passive defense really shines. The larger and more noisey the fight, the less you can rely on dodges, evades, blocks and blinds and the more you need passives.

I think that, at least in WvW, the minimum average armor rating should be 30%.. but maybe it's okay in PvP as it is ? The bigger problem is the extreme health disparity between classes which is completely rediculous (and always was..).

Taking into account base health, Warrior has ~60% effective damage resistance compared to Ele..

Yes, give ele 19k hp baseline.We will never see a downed ele anymore, because they have so much dmg mitigation and ways to heal themselfes back up. Same with guards.

Oh also eles are ranged and can kite hardcore, while warrior is basically a full melee class (and no, rifle is not a viable weapon on war)

Also, thieves max hp, to never be bursted down and always reset the fight.

so ele ranged is viable and warrior not? :o

Obviously, have you ever set a foot into wvw? Staff is a thing.Even fresh air is using scepter, which is ranged.

wvw? this is spvp forumwhere staff ele is a thing? also rifle warrior is viable doing 18k crits, just one trick ponny

And one trick ponys are generally not meta and thus not viable, so my point stands, rifle is not viable.

Ive just checked metabattle, and there is a staff support build on the site, also scepter builds, like i said.

You ignored my scepter comment completely.

Btw no rifle metawarrior on there

thinking

i ignored because scepter ele is a joke same as rifle warrior

Ok, great argument, yikes, thank goodness ppl like you are not making the balance decisions

what was your argument, metabattle? lmao

I made points on why ele has less hp than warrior, you argued that my points were wrong without giving any proof i provided more arguments to proof my points, you havent done anything to disprove mine.

And yes metabattle, because it generally gives a good starting point to what is played and what isnt.

You obviously have a great understanding of pvp and everybody else is factually wrong when they disagree with you, you dont need facts and points to be right, everybody should just listen to your opinion, and thus this will be my last reply to you.

Have a great day :)

im not even talking about hp lol, talking about toughness, i agree with the hp sentences ;), but if you need metabattle to understand builds you cant say that you have great understanding of pvp

Omg you are so kitten that i honestly have to reply again.I know that your original post was about armor, but the post i was replying to was about hp, and you replied to my hp post, so we are talking about hp (maybe offtopic, but who cares) .Maybe you should read and think about it before you reply.

I never stated i use metabattle to understand a build. I use metabattle to get an understanding of what ppl play, because im not that high up on my horse to think that i know about every possible build for each individual class. Assuming that would be nuts. I use other sources outside of my own brain, because most of the time you wont be able to figure out every possible way to play or in general find every possible solution to fix a problem.

Metabattle might not always have the best and refinded builds but it gives a good outline to what is played and viable, just because you think some of them are bad and "jokes" doesnt mean that they are, and that other ppl dont use them successfully

Your only reliable source to appear credible would be yourself playing the actual class, if that would have been the case..you would have never stated something like viable scepter ele build on metabattle..you lost any credibility once you've said that. Btw I do play warrior and personally if I slot : strength 3-2-2 / tactics 1-2-2 and discipline 2-3-3 with battle sigil and fireworks runes ( WvW) or strength runes ( PvP)....I would be effectively immortal to any ele build (outside fireweaver hence why you lot are so desperare to see it nerfed..it's the only ele build you cannot walk all over by simply breathing)...nah I don't use SB to deal with a core/tempest ele, that would be overkill xd....

In the end do multiclass before attempting any balance discussion

[RedShark.9548]

@Arheundel.6451 said:

@RedShark.9548 said:

@SeikeNz.3526 said:

@RedShark.9548 said:

@SeikeNz.3526 said:

@RedShark.9548 said:

@SeikeNz.3526 said:

@RedShark.9548 said:

@SeikeNz.3526 said:

@RedShark.9548 said:

@SeikeNz.3526 said:

@RedShark.9548 said:

@"Hannelore.8153" said:Its not effective right now, that's true, I think it affects PvE and WvW more than PvP though, because PvP is entirely skill-based play whereas in other gamemodes you have to rely more on surviving haphazard spam, etc which is where passive defense really shines. The larger and more noisey the fight, the less you can rely on dodges, evades, blocks and blinds and the more you need passives.

I think that, at least in WvW, the minimum average armor rating should be 30%.. but maybe it's okay in PvP as it is ? The bigger problem is the extreme health disparity between classes which is completely rediculous (and always was..).

Taking into account base health, Warrior has ~60% effective damage resistance compared to Ele..

Yes, give ele 19k hp baseline.We will never see a downed ele anymore, because they have so much dmg mitigation and ways to heal themselfes back up. Same with guards.

Oh also eles are ranged and can kite hardcore, while warrior is basically a full melee class (and no, rifle is not a viable weapon on war)

Also, thieves max hp, to never be bursted down and always reset the fight.

so ele ranged is viable and warrior not? :o

Obviously, have you ever set a foot into wvw? Staff is a thing.Even fresh air is using scepter, which is ranged.

wvw? this is spvp forumwhere staff ele is a thing? also rifle warrior is viable doing 18k crits, just one trick ponny

And one trick ponys are generally not meta and thus not viable, so my point stands, rifle is not viable.

Ive just checked metabattle, and there is a staff support build on the site, also scepter builds, like i said.

You ignored my scepter comment completely.

Btw no rifle metawarrior on there

thinking

i ignored because scepter ele is a joke same as rifle warrior

Ok, great argument, yikes, thank goodness ppl like you are not making the balance decisions

what was your argument, metabattle? lmao

I made points on why ele has less hp than warrior, you argued that my points were wrong without giving any proof i provided more arguments to proof my points, you havent done anything to disprove mine.

And yes metabattle, because it generally gives a good starting point to what is played and what isnt.

You obviously have a great understanding of pvp and everybody else is factually wrong when they disagree with you, you dont need facts and points to be right, everybody should just listen to your opinion, and thus this will be my last reply to you.

Have a great day :)

im not even talking about hp lol, talking about toughness, i agree with the hp sentences ;), but if you need metabattle to understand builds you cant say that you have great understanding of pvp

Omg you are so kitten that i honestly have to reply again.I know that your original post was about armor, but the post i was replying to was about hp, and you replied to my hp post, so we are talking about hp (maybe offtopic, but who cares) .Maybe you should read and think about it before you reply.

I never stated i use metabattle to understand a build. I use metabattle to get an understanding of what ppl play, because im not that high up on my horse to think that i know about every possible build for each individual class. Assuming that would be nuts. I use other sources outside of my own brain, because most of the time you wont be able to figure out every possible way to play or in general find every possible solution to fix a problem.

Metabattle might not always have the best and refinded builds but it gives a good outline to what is played and viable, just because you think some of them are bad and "jokes" doesnt mean that they are, and that other ppl dont use them successfully

Your only reliable source to appear credible would be yourself playing the actual class, if that would have been the case..you would have never stated something like

viable scepter ele build on metabattle

..you lost any credibility once you've said that. Btw I do play warrior and personally if I slot : strength 3-2-2 / tactics 1-2-2 and discipline 2-3-3 with battle sigil and fireworks runes ( WvW) or strength runes ( PvP)....I would be effectively immortal to any ele build

(outside fireweaver hence why you lot are so desperare to see it nerfed..it's the only ele build you cannot walk all over by simply breathing)

...nah I don't use SB to deal with a core/tempest ele, that would be overkill xd....

In the end do multiclass before attempting any balance discussion

You do know this post is pretty old, right?Second, you think balance devs of every game play every single class and build on a high level themself before they make changes?Third, ive seen good scepter eles, just because you cant win a fight with it doesnt mean the build is bad.

[Skorpion.4850]

@SeikeNz.3526 said:if everyone can have the same power? even if toughness do little because of the power creep why heavy armor classes can have more power than light armor classes?

Just posted in Wvw because I find the discussion appropriate

[Arheundel.6451]

@RedShark.9548 said:

@Arheundel.6451 said:

@RedShark.9548 said:

@SeikeNz.3526 said:

@RedShark.9548 said:

@SeikeNz.3526 said:

@RedShark.9548 said:

@SeikeNz.3526 said:

@RedShark.9548 said:

@SeikeNz.3526 said:

@RedShark.9548 said:

@SeikeNz.3526 said:

@RedShark.9548 said:

@"Hannelore.8153" said:Its not effective right now, that's true, I think it affects PvE and WvW more than PvP though, because PvP is entirely skill-based play whereas in other gamemodes you have to rely more on surviving haphazard spam, etc which is where passive defense really shines. The larger and more noisey the fight, the less you can rely on dodges, evades, blocks and blinds and the more you need passives.

I think that, at least in WvW, the minimum average armor rating should be 30%.. but maybe it's okay in PvP as it is ? The bigger problem is the extreme health disparity between classes which is completely rediculous (and always was..).

Taking into account base health, Warrior has ~60% effective damage resistance compared to Ele..

Yes, give ele 19k hp baseline.We will never see a downed ele anymore, because they have so much dmg mitigation and ways to heal themselfes back up. Same with guards.

Oh also eles are ranged and can kite hardcore, while warrior is basically a full melee class (and no, rifle is not a viable weapon on war)

Also, thieves max hp, to never be bursted down and always reset the fight.

so ele ranged is viable and warrior not? :o

Obviously, have you ever set a foot into wvw? Staff is a thing.Even fresh air is using scepter, which is ranged.

wvw? this is spvp forumwhere staff ele is a thing? also rifle warrior is viable doing 18k crits, just one trick ponny

And one trick ponys are generally not meta and thus not viable, so my point stands, rifle is not viable.

Ive just checked metabattle, and there is a staff support build on the site, also scepter builds, like i said.

You ignored my scepter comment completely.

Btw no rifle metawarrior on there

thinking

i ignored because scepter ele is a joke same as rifle warrior

Ok, great argument, yikes, thank goodness ppl like you are not making the balance decisions

what was your argument, metabattle? lmao

I made points on why ele has less hp than warrior, you argued that my points were wrong without giving any proof i provided more arguments to proof my points, you havent done anything to disprove mine.

And yes metabattle, because it generally gives a good starting point to what is played and what isnt.

You obviously have a great understanding of pvp and everybody else is factually wrong when they disagree with you, you dont need facts and points to be right, everybody should just listen to your opinion, and thus this will be my last reply to you.

Have a great day :)

im not even talking about hp lol, talking about toughness, i agree with the hp sentences ;), but if you need metabattle to understand builds you cant say that you have great understanding of pvp

Omg you are so kitten that i honestly have to reply again.I know that your original post was about armor, but the post i was replying to was about hp, and you replied to my hp post, so we are talking about hp (maybe offtopic, but who cares) .Maybe you should read and think about it before you reply.

I never stated i use metabattle to understand a build. I use metabattle to get an understanding of what ppl play, because im not that high up on my horse to think that i know about every possible build for each individual class. Assuming that would be nuts. I use other sources outside of my own brain, because most of the time you wont be able to figure out every possible way to play or in general find every possible solution to fix a problem.

Metabattle might not always have the best and refinded builds but it gives a good outline to what is played and viable, just because you think some of them are bad and "jokes" doesnt mean that they are, and that other ppl dont use them successfully

Your only reliable source to appear credible would be yourself playing the actual class, if that would have been the case..you would have never stated something like

viable scepter ele build on metabattle

..you lost any credibility once you've said that. Btw I do play warrior and personally if I slot : strength 3-2-2 / tactics 1-2-2 and discipline 2-3-3 with battle sigil and fireworks runes ( WvW) or strength runes ( PvP)....I would be effectively immortal to any ele build

(outside fireweaver hence why you lot are so desperare to see it nerfed..it's the only ele build you cannot walk all over by simply breathing)

...nah I don't use SB to deal with a core/tempest ele, that would be overkill xd....

In the end do multiclass before attempting any balance discussion

You do know this post is pretty old, right?Second, you think balance devs of every game play every single class and build on a high level themself before they make changes?Third, ive seen good scepter eles, just because you cant win a fight with it doesnt mean the build is bad.

I can win also on scepter...it always depends on the skill level of the opponent but winning some fights won't change the fact that 3/4 of the scepter skills are fillers