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[POLL] Your Thoughts on Downstate


TheGrimm.5624

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A number of threads overtime have covered changes to downstate and there have been a number of variations on them. Forums are a limited sampling of the player base but can be used as a directional pointer. Tried to cover a range of opinions from various threads over time but if I missed an option please specify (plus you can only have 10 polling options).

Edit: this poll was for a change to WvW, not Pve or PvP per say.

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Too much to pick from. Went with "no rally but downstate". In general, or historically, downstate has been fine and is an aspect of the core gameplay of this game. No downstate means no cooperatively saving friends. However, I don't like the fact that it is muddled by abilities and coefficients left right and center. The core aspect of pressing F on a friend to res them (coupled with the risk of giving cleaving opportunities) is good and has majorly been positive throughout the years. Whatever issues perceived have mostly stemmed from MI's, banners, mercys and the like. The basic F's more interactive and balanced.

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Agree there are a lot of options, but I think in general it's not a two sided option either, hence why I covered so many since there have been a lot of variation out there over time. I would generalize that the group that would like changes are more likely to also like the no downstate weeks, but I could be wrong there.

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I'd almost chose no rally, downstate, no revive but no rally with downstate still having revive is fair in a game where performance hiccups can regularly rob you of an otherwise good play.

I like what downstate adds to the game but I'd rather not have unique skills that aren't very comparable to each other and would rather have a slow downed crawl and would like to have pull skills work on friendly downed players at a more regulated but reasonable speed.

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Personally I think my main complaint about the revive of the defeated is that it favors larger numbers and removes that important decision of the player to say, do I keep fighting or get an ally up since they will be out of the fight till they get back from spawn. With revive they can choose not to decide and if their side wins then they can get their ally up at no cost to their side. One thing that stops some people from attacking a larger force is knowing that their actions won't dwindle their numbers. With no revive of defeated if you can drop a target its at least out of the fight. And I say this coming from a havoc perspective where losing numbers would hurt even more but if you know your group can drop some you might be more willing to take a shot at it. But that could be me, have know players that will always attack and others that will never want to die.

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@"Lan Deathrider.5910" said:Defeated should be able to be revived after a zerg vs. zerg clash.

I want to point out that thus far it looks a lot like "No Rally" is more important to people than "No Downstate."

One of the reasons I was interested in a poll since I think the people that are in favor of no change mostly group everyone else into no downstate but I don't think it's that clear cut. But also curious on the numbers for no change as well.

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@TheGrimm.5624 said:

@"Lan Deathrider.5910" said:Defeated should be able to be revived after a zerg vs. zerg clash.

I want to point out that thus far it looks a lot like "No Rally" is more important to people than "No Downstate."

One of the reasons I was interested in a poll since I think the people that are in favor of no change mostly group everyone else into no downstate but I don't think it's that clear cut. But also curious on the numbers for no change as well.

Well, IMHOFWIW, downstate should be removed. Doing so keeps large groups from roflstomping through smaller groups. The smaller group would have the chance to spike parts of the large group down and overcome them with skill where as right now the larger group is overwhelmingly favored because of how strong downstate itself is as a mechanic.

I can see "No Rally" working, but only if there is "No Revive" as well. You'll need to bandage yourself up.

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I would leave downstate as it is for PvE and rethink how it works in competitive modes like reworking downstate skills so that in competitive modes everyone have the same downed skills (cus yeah, some professions can be really anoying even downed).Also more rigid rules for how many times you can recover from downed : right now you can revive up to 3 times and only get insta defeated on the 4th down, maybe change this to only let players be revived once and get full downed penalty (for 1 min) so that if he goes down again, he is dead.I'm not against revive on defeated players cus it takes time even when you got the max amount of players reviving someone, it may look fast but in the middle of a zerg fight any second standing is enough to die.For Rally i would change it to heal a great amount of the downed health (~33% of the bar) instead of insta revive.

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@Hynax.9536 said:I would leave downstate as it is for PvE and rethink how it works in competitive modes like reworking downstate skills so that in competitive modes everyone can only have those actions (cus yeah, some professions can be really anoying even downed).Also more rigid rules for how many times you can recover from downed : right now you can revive up to 3 times and only get insta defeated on the 4th down, maybe change this to only let players be revived once and get full downed penalty (for 1 min) so that if it goes down again, it is dead.I'm not against revive on defeated players cus it takes time even when you got the max amount of players reviving someone, it may look fast but in the middle of a zerg fight any second standing is enough to die.For Rally i would change it to heal a great amount of the downed health (~33% of the bar) instead of insta revive.

That's a good point which I did not state and may need to edit. I was polling and picturing this just for WvW. Pve and PvP would not be impacted.

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@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:Defeated should be able to be revived after a zerg vs. zerg clash.

I want to point out that thus far it looks a lot like "No Rally" is more important to people than "No Downstate."

One of the reasons I was interested in a poll since I think the people that are in favor of no change mostly group everyone else into no downstate but I don't think it's that clear cut. But also curious on the numbers for no change as well.

Well, IMHOFWIW, downstate should be removed. Doing so keeps large groups from roflstomping through smaller groups. The smaller group would have the chance to spike parts of the large group down and overcome them with skill where as right now the larger group is overwhelmingly favored because of how strong downstate itself is as a mechanic.

I can see "No Rally" working, but only if there is "No Revive" as well. You'll need to bandage yourself up.

Downing someone and making that thing they have to deal with helps me dismantle larger groups and squads. Large groups stomp smaller groups who play like they're a large group and crash right into stuff, that's on them, not revive mechanic.

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@kash.9213 said:

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:Defeated should be able to be revived after a zerg vs. zerg clash.

I want to point out that thus far it looks a lot like "No Rally" is more important to people than "No Downstate."

One of the reasons I was interested in a poll since I think the people that are in favor of no change mostly group everyone else into no downstate but I don't think it's that clear cut. But also curious on the numbers for no change as well.

Well, IMHOFWIW, downstate should be removed. Doing so keeps large groups from roflstomping through smaller groups. The smaller group would have the chance to spike parts of the large group down and overcome them with skill where as right now the larger group is overwhelmingly favored because of how strong downstate itself is as a mechanic.

I can see "No Rally" working, but only if there is "No Revive" as well. You'll need to bandage yourself up.

Downing someone and making that thing they have to deal with helps me dismantle larger groups and squads. Large groups stomp smaller groups who play like they're a large group and crash right into stuff, that's on them, not revive mechanic.

Ya people who want “no downstate” are usually scrubs who don’t know how to use downstate to their advantage....

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@JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:Defeated should be able to be revived after a zerg vs. zerg clash.

I want to point out that thus far it looks a lot like "No Rally" is more important to people than "No Downstate."

One of the reasons I was interested in a poll since I think the people that are in favor of no change mostly group everyone else into no downstate but I don't think it's that clear cut. But also curious on the numbers for no change as well.

Well, IMHOFWIW, downstate should be removed. Doing so keeps large groups from roflstomping through smaller groups. The smaller group would have the chance to spike parts of the large group down and overcome them with skill where as right now the larger group is overwhelmingly favored because of how strong downstate itself is as a mechanic.

I can see "No Rally" working, but only if there is "No Revive" as well. You'll need to bandage yourself up.

Downing someone and making that thing they have to deal with helps me dismantle larger groups and squads. Large groups stomp smaller groups who play like they're a large group and crash right into stuff, that's on them, not revive mechanic.

Ya people who want “no downstate” are usually scrubs who don’t know how to use downstate to their advantage....

Or they know how much of one It can be

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Waaaaaaay too many options to be a "pointer" for anything. Also no downstaters on the forum have a tendancy to screetch the highest about the injustice of how they got stomped.

That said, as I've said before - no rally is an acceptable compromise as the loss of that rather pushes for more focus on ressing and stomping. Adjusting the downed penalty would also be good as the 60s timer is way to short for a WvW slugfest and I personally still think they could remove one stage and start at 50% hp (ie insta-downed on the third down instead of 4th).

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@kash.9213 said:

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:Defeated should be able to be revived after a zerg vs. zerg clash.

I want to point out that thus far it looks a lot like "No Rally" is more important to people than "No Downstate."

One of the reasons I was interested in a poll since I think the people that are in favor of no change mostly group everyone else into no downstate but I don't think it's that clear cut. But also curious on the numbers for no change as well.

Well, IMHOFWIW, downstate should be removed. Doing so keeps large groups from roflstomping through smaller groups. The smaller group would have the chance to spike parts of the large group down and overcome them with skill where as right now the larger group is overwhelmingly favored because of how strong downstate itself is as a mechanic.

I can see "No Rally" working, but only if there is "No Revive" as well. You'll need to bandage yourself up.

Downing someone and making that thing they have to deal with helps me dismantle larger groups and squads. Large groups stomp smaller groups who play like they're a large group and crash right into stuff, that's on them, not revive mechanic.

Well you're DE'ing it out. Downing one guy and waiting for someone to start healing them so that you can pop a stealth attack on them makes sense for you.

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@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:Defeated should be able to be revived after a zerg vs. zerg clash.

I want to point out that thus far it looks a lot like "No Rally" is more important to people than "No Downstate."

One of the reasons I was interested in a poll since I think the people that are in favor of no change mostly group everyone else into no downstate but I don't think it's that clear cut. But also curious on the numbers for no change as well.

Well, IMHOFWIW, downstate should be removed. Doing so keeps large groups from roflstomping through smaller groups. The smaller group would have the chance to spike parts of the large group down and overcome them with skill where as right now the larger group is overwhelmingly favored because of how strong downstate itself is as a mechanic.

I can see "No Rally" working, but only if there is "No Revive" as well. You'll need to bandage yourself up.

Downing someone and making that thing they have to deal with helps me dismantle larger groups and squads. Large groups stomp smaller groups who play like they're a large group and crash right into stuff, that's on them, not revive mechanic.

Well you're DE'ing it out. Downing one guy and waiting for someone to start healing them so that you can pop a stealth attack on them makes sense for you.

Pulls and interrupts are better there than stealth.

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@kash.9213 said:

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:Defeated should be able to be revived after a zerg vs. zerg clash.

I want to point out that thus far it looks a lot like "No Rally" is more important to people than "No Downstate."

One of the reasons I was interested in a poll since I think the people that are in favor of no change mostly group everyone else into no downstate but I don't think it's that clear cut. But also curious on the numbers for no change as well.

Well, IMHOFWIW, downstate should be removed. Doing so keeps large groups from roflstomping through smaller groups. The smaller group would have the chance to spike parts of the large group down and overcome them with skill where as right now the larger group is overwhelmingly favored because of how strong downstate itself is as a mechanic.

I can see "No Rally" working, but only if there is "No Revive" as well. You'll need to bandage yourself up.

Downing someone and making that thing they have to deal with helps me dismantle larger groups and squads. Large groups stomp smaller groups who play like they're a large group and crash right into stuff, that's on them, not revive mechanic.

Well you're DE'ing it out. Downing one guy and waiting for someone to start healing them so that you can pop a stealth attack on them makes sense for you.

Pulls and interrupts are better there than stealth.

True, but a chance to insta down another is worth taking as well. But then this assumes that teammate would rez their partner though. I don't, I give them a chance to rally off a death instead, and if the opponent goes to stomp I nuke them.

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@"Dawdler.8521" said:Waaaaaaay too many options to be a "pointer" for anything. Also no downstaters on the forum have a tendancy to screetch the highest about the injustice of how they got stomped.

That said, as I've said before - no rally is an acceptable compromise as the loss of that rather pushes for more focus on ressing and stomping. Adjusting the downed penalty would also be good as the 60s timer is way to short for a WvW slugfest and I personally still think they could remove one stage and start at 50% hp (ie insta-downed on the third down instead of 4th).

Based on the spread so far I fear that fewer options would hide some nuinances, and we might do a later poll based on how this turns out. But it is a lot of choices, but even so I think I missed some mixes people have presented here on the sub-forum.

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@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:Ya people who want “no downstate” are usually scrubs who don’t know how to use downstate to their advantage....

Or they know how much of one It can be

There are distinct tactics that can be used with downstate, but is that wasted unless you win the fight? One side being able to fully repopulate itself at the spot of the fight was delayed but nothing more as they continue from that point forward. Now this is more a push for no revive of defeated mind you, which would work with or without downstate.

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Lots of options leaves it too open to get any serious focused solution. Well I suppose 1 or 2 might pop forward idk.

Despite all these options I didn't see the one I think would have been a legit conpromise,

Nothing downed state mechanics changed wildly just some numbers adjusted,

7 sec? duration cap and then auto deadNo more 3x hp boost1 downed state per minute?

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Personally, my main concern is downstate being used as a way to easily get HP back. For WvW specifically I'd like to see rallies gone, and the speed of reviving downed slowed (particularly for multiple revivers). Ideally, downstate should be something you only come back from if you stop taking damage.

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