Pistol Whip Daredevils are so horridly broken

[Leonidrex.5649]

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@TorQ.7041 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@TorQ.7041 said:

@Fat Disgrace.4275 said:

@TorQ.7041 said:

@"Sikieiki.3189" said:

@TorQ.7041 said:

@Paradoxoglanis.1904 said:

@verskore.4312 said:

@Paradoxoglanis.1904 said:

@memausz.7264 said:Look, for people whose APMs and mindset can scale into really high level gameplay, good for you, that's fantastic. But at some point, the build allows even less skilled players to consistently outperform all the other classes... an in this case, dagger pistol daredevils in particular using Roll for Initiative can just SPAM Pistol Whip without even thinking about it. Not only does it CC, but it also provides evade frames AND it has such high synergy with stealth and ports AND with a particular choice of traits, cleanses conditions. You can't fight it by dodging, they will out-evade you, they can remove revealed with their elite skill, so that's not much of a counter... I suppose the idea is that they are supposed to be glass, so just break them first? But that is broken down by all the other things it has working for it. Please nerf these trait lines and increase the initiative for Pistol Whip (because it's also a problem on core thief as well). Thank you.

You need to learn the evade animations. If you can do that then you can put pressure on them, which thieves cant take much of.

Ok, tell us how to put pressure on a s/p thief oh great gamer

Learn when evade frames start and end based on animations. Then attack them so your skills land outside of those evade windows. Some skills lock thieves in an animation, and the evade duration is usually less than the animation duration. If they are spamming skills and chaining evades, they will run out of initiative and cooldowns very quickly. If they are playing more cautiously and kiting then you have time to set up attacks/combos, bait steal/headshot, or re-sustain.

Excatly this.

Better players always evade my PW. Cc me at the end of animation. I burn my cool downs till I got nothing then cc gg me. Now a days I have to force dodge to end pw to avoid putting my self in danger, which eats at my ability to do anything.

No doubt pw will be nerfed tbh. Ppl will complain till it's nerfed to the ground n u can't play thief again.

If you think s/p thief isn't broken you don't understand conquest. The weakness of thief was always that you had to give up your ability to fight in favor of mobility, but with s/p you are very strong in even fights while still having broken mobility and team stealth.

I didn't say anything about being broken. You did. I simply agreed on how to beat a pw thief.

I do think that the daze should be shortened or removed.

Also funny how you mention mobility being broke. Every class basically has swiftness and leaps nowadays. You decap something. 10 seconds later it's recapped. Of thief builds are basically obsolete.

Team stealth is really only used at the beginning of the game. You simply can't do pistol 5 and bow in the middle of a game and you won't take refuge or something silly just for that.

yes, other classes can if they build for it, and probably not even mete builds. with theif all you have to do is trait daredevil and short bow and thats it because EVERYONE is going to take shadowstep.

and this is where I think the issue is with s/p. t still can decap/+1 just as good as d/p did but it can actually fight and force people of nodes too.

Lol. Ok dude. Not sure what u r playing but every meta class has swiftness and some form of leap. Oh no all a thief had to do is take a shortbow which is the entire 5 skill weap set. Oh no so op. Thief so good nerf thief.

becouse by going shortbow theif doesnt lose anything. IF im playing condi mirage and take sword, im giving up damage for mobility.thief doesnt need 2 in combat weapon sets becouse of initiative systam.Also thiefs GOOD utilities all have mobility baked into them.Roll for in-> dashwithdraw -> dashdagger storm -> movespeedshadowstep -> 2x portyou would gain NOTHING by putting on another in combat weapon set as thief, thats why you give up NOTHING to get SB mobility.

I understand why you hate thief so much now cos u r mesmer main n thief directly counters mes. Git gud.

I dont hate thief, im indifferent. Dont care if it gets nerfed or not. It changes nothing. Thief always kitten on mesmer and it will always kitten on mesmer.No matter the buffs or nerfs this will never change. Facts is what matters, you people disregard them and im here to correct you.Fact is : Every thief takes SB becouse its free mobilityEvery thief takes roll for ini becouse its best utility for both mobility AND combat.

Is it free mobility tho? At 6 ini cost of a 12 ini global resource pool that spans both weapons, doesn't sound free to me. Also look at the other skills on sb, not really crazy strong but a decent utility weapon.

3 is respectable evadedetonate cluster deals good damage and is spammable, hits throught walls so its good against people that kita against you.sb 5 creates distance, by the time ini cost matters you get it back.yes its free

[Psycoprophet.8107]

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@TorQ.7041 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@TorQ.7041 said:

@Fat Disgrace.4275 said:

@TorQ.7041 said:

@"Sikieiki.3189" said:

@TorQ.7041 said:

@Paradoxoglanis.1904 said:

@verskore.4312 said:

@Paradoxoglanis.1904 said:

@memausz.7264 said:Look, for people whose APMs and mindset can scale into really high level gameplay, good for you, that's fantastic. But at some point, the build allows even less skilled players to consistently outperform all the other classes... an in this case, dagger pistol daredevils in particular using Roll for Initiative can just SPAM Pistol Whip without even thinking about it. Not only does it CC, but it also provides evade frames AND it has such high synergy with stealth and ports AND with a particular choice of traits, cleanses conditions. You can't fight it by dodging, they will out-evade you, they can remove revealed with their elite skill, so that's not much of a counter... I suppose the idea is that they are supposed to be glass, so just break them first? But that is broken down by all the other things it has working for it. Please nerf these trait lines and increase the initiative for Pistol Whip (because it's also a problem on core thief as well). Thank you.

You need to learn the evade animations. If you can do that then you can put pressure on them, which thieves cant take much of.

Ok, tell us how to put pressure on a s/p thief oh great gamer

Learn when evade frames start and end based on animations. Then attack them so your skills land outside of those evade windows. Some skills lock thieves in an animation, and the evade duration is usually less than the animation duration. If they are spamming skills and chaining evades, they will run out of initiative and cooldowns very quickly. If they are playing more cautiously and kiting then you have time to set up attacks/combos, bait steal/headshot, or re-sustain.

Excatly this.

Better players always evade my PW. Cc me at the end of animation. I burn my cool downs till I got nothing then cc gg me. Now a days I have to force dodge to end pw to avoid putting my self in danger, which eats at my ability to do anything.

No doubt pw will be nerfed tbh. Ppl will complain till it's nerfed to the ground n u can't play thief again.

If you think s/p thief isn't broken you don't understand conquest. The weakness of thief was always that you had to give up your ability to fight in favor of mobility, but with s/p you are very strong in even fights while still having broken mobility and team stealth.

I didn't say anything about being broken. You did. I simply agreed on how to beat a pw thief.

I do think that the daze should be shortened or removed.

Also funny how you mention mobility being broke. Every class basically has swiftness and leaps nowadays. You decap something. 10 seconds later it's recapped. Of thief builds are basically obsolete.

Team stealth is really only used at the beginning of the game. You simply can't do pistol 5 and bow in the middle of a game and you won't take refuge or something silly just for that.

yes, other classes can if they build for it, and probably not even mete builds. with theif all you have to do is trait daredevil and short bow and thats it because EVERYONE is going to take shadowstep.

and this is where I think the issue is with s/p. t still can decap/+1 just as good as d/p did but it can actually fight and force people of nodes too.

Lol. Ok dude. Not sure what u r playing but every meta class has swiftness and some form of leap. Oh no all a thief had to do is take a shortbow which is the entire 5 skill weap set. Oh no so op. Thief so good nerf thief.

becouse by going shortbow theif doesnt lose anything. IF im playing condi mirage and take sword, im giving up damage for mobility.thief doesnt need 2 in combat weapon sets becouse of initiative systam.Also thiefs GOOD utilities all have mobility baked into them.Roll for in-> dashwithdraw -> dashdagger storm -> movespeedshadowstep -> 2x portyou would gain NOTHING by putting on another in combat weapon set as thief, thats why you give up NOTHING to get SB mobility.

I understand why you hate thief so much now cos u r mesmer main n thief directly counters mes. Git gud.

I dont hate thief, im indifferent. Dont care if it gets nerfed or not. It changes nothing. Thief always kitten on mesmer and it will always kitten on mesmer.No matter the buffs or nerfs this will never change. Facts is what matters, you people disregard them and im here to correct you.Fact is : Every thief takes SB becouse its free mobilityEvery thief takes roll for ini becouse its best utility for both mobility AND combat.

Is it free mobility tho? At 6 ini cost of a 12 ini global resource pool that spans both weapons, doesn't sound free to me. Also look at the other skills on sb, not really crazy strong but a decent utility weapon.

3 is respectable evadedetonate cluster deals good damage and is spammable, hits throught walls so its good against people that kita against you.sb 5 creates distance, by the time ini cost matters you get it back.yes its free

The fact that u just said by the time it matters u get it back so yeah it's free shows a level of ignorance to not only the thief class but also game mechanics. U really shouldn't be posting critiques balance wise until u remedy that.It's crazy a whole traitline is such a staple in almost every build for a useless trait that gives 3 extra ini, I mean the thief gets it back at a rate that it's basically a free resource so we're all silly for thinking otherwise lol.Wow! All I can say lol

[Leonidrex.5649]

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@TorQ.7041 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@TorQ.7041 said:

@Fat Disgrace.4275 said:

@TorQ.7041 said:

@"Sikieiki.3189" said:

@TorQ.7041 said:

@Paradoxoglanis.1904 said:

@verskore.4312 said:

@Paradoxoglanis.1904 said:

@memausz.7264 said:Look, for people whose APMs and mindset can scale into really high level gameplay, good for you, that's fantastic. But at some point, the build allows even less skilled players to consistently outperform all the other classes... an in this case, dagger pistol daredevils in particular using Roll for Initiative can just SPAM Pistol Whip without even thinking about it. Not only does it CC, but it also provides evade frames AND it has such high synergy with stealth and ports AND with a particular choice of traits, cleanses conditions. You can't fight it by dodging, they will out-evade you, they can remove revealed with their elite skill, so that's not much of a counter... I suppose the idea is that they are supposed to be glass, so just break them first? But that is broken down by all the other things it has working for it. Please nerf these trait lines and increase the initiative for Pistol Whip (because it's also a problem on core thief as well). Thank you.

You need to learn the evade animations. If you can do that then you can put pressure on them, which thieves cant take much of.

Ok, tell us how to put pressure on a s/p thief oh great gamer

Learn when evade frames start and end based on animations. Then attack them so your skills land outside of those evade windows. Some skills lock thieves in an animation, and the evade duration is usually less than the animation duration. If they are spamming skills and chaining evades, they will run out of initiative and cooldowns very quickly. If they are playing more cautiously and kiting then you have time to set up attacks/combos, bait steal/headshot, or re-sustain.

Excatly this.

Better players always evade my PW. Cc me at the end of animation. I burn my cool downs till I got nothing then cc gg me. Now a days I have to force dodge to end pw to avoid putting my self in danger, which eats at my ability to do anything.

No doubt pw will be nerfed tbh. Ppl will complain till it's nerfed to the ground n u can't play thief again.

If you think s/p thief isn't broken you don't understand conquest. The weakness of thief was always that you had to give up your ability to fight in favor of mobility, but with s/p you are very strong in even fights while still having broken mobility and team stealth.

I didn't say anything about being broken. You did. I simply agreed on how to beat a pw thief.

I do think that the daze should be shortened or removed.

Also funny how you mention mobility being broke. Every class basically has swiftness and leaps nowadays. You decap something. 10 seconds later it's recapped. Of thief builds are basically obsolete.

Team stealth is really only used at the beginning of the game. You simply can't do pistol 5 and bow in the middle of a game and you won't take refuge or something silly just for that.

yes, other classes can if they build for it, and probably not even mete builds. with theif all you have to do is trait daredevil and short bow and thats it because EVERYONE is going to take shadowstep.

and this is where I think the issue is with s/p. t still can decap/+1 just as good as d/p did but it can actually fight and force people of nodes too.

Lol. Ok dude. Not sure what u r playing but every meta class has swiftness and some form of leap. Oh no all a thief had to do is take a shortbow which is the entire 5 skill weap set. Oh no so op. Thief so good nerf thief.

becouse by going shortbow theif doesnt lose anything. IF im playing condi mirage and take sword, im giving up damage for mobility.thief doesnt need 2 in combat weapon sets becouse of initiative systam.Also thiefs GOOD utilities all have mobility baked into them.Roll for in-> dashwithdraw -> dashdagger storm -> movespeedshadowstep -> 2x portyou would gain NOTHING by putting on another in combat weapon set as thief, thats why you give up NOTHING to get SB mobility.

I understand why you hate thief so much now cos u r mesmer main n thief directly counters mes. Git gud.

I dont hate thief, im indifferent. Dont care if it gets nerfed or not. It changes nothing. Thief always kitten on mesmer and it will always kitten on mesmer.No matter the buffs or nerfs this will never change. Facts is what matters, you people disregard them and im here to correct you.Fact is : Every thief takes SB becouse its free mobilityEvery thief takes roll for ini becouse its best utility for both mobility AND combat.

Is it free mobility tho? At 6 ini cost of a 12 ini global resource pool that spans both weapons, doesn't sound free to me. Also look at the other skills on sb, not really crazy strong but a decent utility weapon.

3 is respectable evadedetonate cluster deals good damage and is spammable, hits throught walls so its good against people that kita against you.sb 5 creates distance, by the time ini cost matters you get it back.yes its free

The fact that u just said by the time it matters u get it back so yeah it's free shows a level of ignorance to not only the thief class but also game mechanics. U really shouldn't be posting critiques balance wise until u remedy that.It's crazy a whole traitline is such a staple in almost every build for a useless trait that gives 3 extra ini, I mean the thief gets it back at a rate that it's basically a free resource so we're all silly for thinking otherwise lol.Wow! All I can say lol

are you seriously not comprehending or just trolling ?

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

@Leonidrex.5649 said:Fact is : Every thief takes SB becouse its free mobility

I mean I don't take SB but \shrug

[Zexanima.7851]

@Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:Fact is : Every thief takes SB becouse its free mobility

I mean I don't take SB but \shrug

How dare you, sir. You are no thief, begone from here and lay your thief badge on my desk on your way out. Disgusting... >:(

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

@Zexanima.7851 said:

@Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:Fact is : Every thief takes SB becouse its free mobility

I mean I don't take SB but \shrug

How dare you, sir. You are no thief, begone from here and lay your thief badge on my desk on your way out. Disgusting... >:(

D8<

Well I never-

Its not my fault Staff is more fun on acro D/D if you're not fighting on Kyhlo

[Dirame.8521]

The key is to catch a P/W thief before or after his evade frames. P/W is supposed to beat Holosmiths but here is a holo outplaying a P/W thiefhttps://www.twitch.tv/videos/530335257

[EremiteAngel.9765]

I was recently outplayed for 90% of the fight by a Pistol whip DD. He suppressed me from start to finish. But miraculously I still won ?They are not OP.They require skill and good decision making to do well.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nfl9WKK6ROI

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

Pistol Whip needs to be a 1/4th daze, not a 3/4th stun.

The thing with power creep is that, the more dps there is, the more powerful CC duration becomes. 4+ years ago, a 2s Knockdown wasn't a big deal to get hit with once during a 1v1 right, but nowadays a 2s Knockdown is more than enough time for any build in play right now to downstate you from full health, if you have no stun break to get out of it.

^ This effect is happening game wide, and this is largely why 1HKO bursting is a thing, CCs are too powerful now for how high the damage is.

Either damage needs to be brought down a good 25% game wide, or these old CC durations need to be halved in pvp, all of them on every class.

[lightstalker.1498]

@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:Pistol Whip needs to be a 1/4th daze, not a 3/4th stun.

The thing with power creep is that, the more dps there is, the more powerful CC duration becomes. 4+ years ago, a 2s Knockdown wasn't a big deal to get hit with once during a 1v1 right, but nowadays a 2s Knockdown is more than enough time for any build in play right now to downstate you from full health, if you have no stun break to get out of it.

^ This effect is happening game wide, and this is largely why 1HKO bursting is a thing, CCs are too powerful now for how high the damage is.

Either damage needs to be brought down a good 25% game wide, or these old CC durations need to be halved in pvp, all of them on every class.

Then it should not root the thief.

[Eugchriss.2046]

@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:Pistol Whip needs to be a 1/4th daze, not a 3/4th stun.

The thing with power creep is that, the more dps there is, the more powerful CC duration becomes. 4+ years ago, a 2s Knockdown wasn't a big deal to get hit with once during a 1v1 right, but nowadays a 2s Knockdown is more than enough time for any build in play right now to downstate you from full health, if you have no stun break to get out of it.

^ This effect is happening game wide, and this is largely why 1HKO bursting is a thing, CCs are too powerful now for how high the damage is.

Either damage needs to be brought down a good 25% game wide, or these old CC durations need to be halved in pvp, all of them on every class.

A simple hot fix : damage +daze and 0 evade frames or 0 damage + no stun and keep the evade frames.Imagine weavers TOF doing damage and stun while evading. SMHAnybody who find this PW thing okay is biased asf.

[Crab Fear.1624]

@Eugchriss.2046 said:

@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:Pistol Whip needs to be a 1/4th daze, not a 3/4th stun.

The thing with power creep is that, the more dps there is, the more powerful CC duration becomes. 4+ years ago, a 2s Knockdown wasn't a big deal to get hit with once during a 1v1 right, but nowadays a 2s Knockdown is more than enough time for any build in play right now to downstate you from full health, if you have no stun break to get out of it.

^ This effect is happening game wide, and this is largely why 1HKO bursting is a thing, CCs are too powerful now for how high the damage is.

Either damage needs to be brought down a good 25% game wide, or these old CC durations need to be halved in pvp, all of them on every class.

A simple hot fix : damage +daze and 0 evade frames or 0 damage + no stun and keep the evade frames.Imagine weavers TOF doing damage and stun while evading. SMHAnybody who find this PW thing okay is biased asf.

Weavers have plenty, plenty, plenty, and plenty of waves to mitigate damage while they melt your ass away.

Need a better comparison for the point you have to really make an impact.

[Leonidrex.5649]

PW is broken as fuck and overloaded, doesnt mean the build is OP.

[apharma.3741]

August 09, 2017 Fixed a bug that was causing this skill to show an incorrect number of hits when traited with Swindler's Equilibrium.

August 08, 2017 Path of Fire pre-patch: Increased the stun duration to 0.75 seconds. Added an additional warning effect to Warmup. Reduced the number of flurry hits from 8 to 4, to match the animation. Flurry damage has been increased by 100% to compensate.

February 23, 2016 Fixed a bug that caused this ability to display incorrect damage values in PvP.The initial strike of this ability has been combined between PvP and PvE (dealing the PvE damage values) and will no longer deal increased damage to crippled enemies.

June 23, 2015 Specialization update: All skills categorized as dual-wield have received a 5% damage increase.

April 15, 2014 This skill has been split between PvP and PvE. It will now cost 6 initiative in PvP, while maintaining a 5 initiative cost in PvE. Updated the skill facts to show the bonus damage from Combined Training. Added an evasion skill fact.

December 10, 2013 Reduced the aftercast on the first half of this skill by .25 seconds.

June 25, 2013 Decreased the time between the stun and the sword flurry.

October 07, 2012 Reduced damage by 15%

August 28, 2012 Game release: Pistol Whip has been added to the game.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Pistol_Whip

I would encourage everyone that posted here to pay attention to the bolded parts and check if there may be a bug that's causing the PvE version to be used in PvP. Otherwise, yeah PoF, wotcha gonna do.

[Curennos.9307]

@"apharma.3741" said:August 09, 2017 Fixed a bug that was causing this skill to show an incorrect number of hits when traited with Swindler's Equilibrium.

August 08, 2017 Path of Fire pre-patch: Increased the stun duration to 0.75 seconds. Added an additional warning effect to Warmup. Reduced the number of flurry hits from 8 to 4, to match the animation. Flurry damage has been increased by 100% to compensate.

February 23, 2016 Fixed a bug that caused this ability to display incorrect damage values in PvP.The initial strike of this ability has been combined between PvP and PvE (dealing the PvE damage values) and will no longer deal increased damage to crippled enemies.

June 23, 2015 Specialization update: All skills categorized as dual-wield have received a 5% damage increase.

April 15, 2014 This skill has been split between PvP and PvE. It will now cost 6 initiative in PvP, while maintaining a 5 initiative cost in PvE. Updated the skill facts to show the bonus damage from Combined Training. Added an evasion skill fact.

December 10, 2013 Reduced the aftercast on the first half of this skill by .25 seconds.

June 25, 2013 Decreased the time between the stun and the sword flurry.

October 07, 2012 Reduced damage by 15%

August 28, 2012 Game release: Pistol Whip has been added to the game.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Pistol_Whip

I would encourage everyone that posted here to pay attention to the bolded parts and check if there may be a bug that's causing the PvE version to be used in PvP. Otherwise, yeah PoF, wotcha gonna do.

Huh. It does cost 5 ini in pvp areas.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/170805715013730304/665658183464779789/unknown.png

Also, the first hit of pistol whip doesn't apply cripple on hit w/Ankle Shots.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

@Curennos.9307 said:

@"apharma.3741" said:August 09, 2017 Fixed a bug that was causing this skill to show an incorrect number of hits when traited with Swindler's Equilibrium.

August 08, 2017 Path of Fire pre-patch:

Increased the stun duration to 0.75 seconds.

Added an additional warning effect to Warmup. Reduced the number of flurry hits from 8 to 4, to match the animation. Flurry damage has been increased by 100% to compensate.

February 23, 2016 Fixed a bug that caused this ability to display incorrect damage values in PvP.The initial strike of this ability has been combined between PvP and PvE (dealing the PvE damage values) and will no longer deal increased damage to crippled enemies.

June 23, 2015 Specialization update: All skills categorized as dual-wield have received a 5% damage increase.

April 15, 2014

This skill has been split between PvP and PvE. It will now cost 6 initiative in PvP, while maintaining a 5 initiative cost in PvE.

Updated the skill facts to show the bonus damage from Combined Training. Added an evasion skill fact.

December 10, 2013 Reduced the aftercast on the first half of this skill by .25 seconds.

June 25, 2013 Decreased the time between the stun and the sword flurry.

October 07, 2012 Reduced damage by 15%

August 28, 2012 Game release: Pistol Whip has been added to the game.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Pistol_Whip

I would encourage everyone that posted here to pay attention to the bolded parts and check if there may be a bug that's causing the PvE version to be used in PvP. Otherwise, yeah PoF, wotcha gonna do.

Huh. It does cost 5 ini in pvp areas.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/170805715013730304/665658183464779789/unknown.png

Yeah Anet messed up its supposed to cost 6 ini in pvp but only cost 5 which was to be the pve cost.