make clones invuln for 2 sec upon creation — Guild Wars 2 Forums

make clones invuln for 2 sec upon creation

Stand The Wall.6987Stand The Wall.6987 Member ✭✭✭✭
edited February 8, 2020 in Mesmer

this would allow mesmers to actually use their profession mechanic in cases where its impossible and might even make chrono viable again.

good idea or no?

edit
invuln wouldn't pop up on screen, clones would be like scourge shades.
maybe even instead of invuln the clones could inherit the mesmers actual health at the time, vitality, and armor for 2 sec.

2nd edit
make clones perma invuln, make shatters weaker but with shorter cd.

Te lazla otstara.

Comments

  • @Stand The Wall.6987 said:
    this would allow mesmers to actually use their profession mechanic in cases where its impossible and might even make chrono viable again.

    good idea or no?

    You do realize that this change would make it easier to find the Mesmer amongst the screen clutter right? "Well that one wasn't invulnerable so lets throw all the AoE/CC over there."

    I know that is a bit simplistic, but it is quicker than looking at the buffs on the target bar.

  • @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:
    this would allow mesmers to actually use their profession mechanic in cases where its impossible and might even make chrono viable again.

    good idea or no?

    You do realize that this change would make it easier to find the Mesmer amongst the screen clutter right? "Well that one wasn't invulnerable so lets throw all the AoE/CC over there."

    I know that is a bit simplistic, but it is quicker than looking at the buffs on the target bar.

    how you figure? invuln wouldn't pop up on screen. taking this into account how would finding the mes be easier if the clones actually lived through the aoe? its way easier to find a mes when they have no clones lol.

    Te lazla otstara.

  • Zexanima.7851Zexanima.7851 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:
    this would allow mesmers to actually use their profession mechanic in cases where its impossible and might even make chrono viable again.

    good idea or no?

    You do realize that this change would make it easier to find the Mesmer amongst the screen clutter right? "Well that one wasn't invulnerable so lets throw all the AoE/CC over there."

    I know that is a bit simplistic, but it is quicker than looking at the buffs on the target bar.

    how you figure? invuln wouldn't pop up on screen. taking this into account how would finding the mes be easier if the clones actually lived through the aoe? its way easier to find a mes when they have no clones lol.

    All the clones would be popping up "invuln" or "0" where the real one would actually be taking damage. Besides that this would really suck to fight in PvP for other professions. Being unable to cleave down clones before they can spawn a bunch is important. This would give mesmer too much of an advantage. In PvE? Sure.

    Depression and anxiety are the worst...

  • @Zexanima.7851 said:
    All the clones would be popping up "invuln" or "0" where the real one would actually be taking damage. Besides that this would really suck to fight in PvP for other professions. Being unable to cleave down clones before they can spawn a bunch is important. This would give mesmer too much of an advantage. In PvE? Sure.

    no there wouldn't be any pop ups saying invuln, edited op my bad. might be better if they just had more vitality. 2 sec of invuln isn't really that big of a deal, and if it is it can be reduced to 1 sec.

    Te lazla otstara.

  • Zexanima.7851Zexanima.7851 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:

    @Zexanima.7851 said:
    All the clones would be popping up "invuln" or "0" where the real one would actually be taking damage. Besides that this would really suck to fight in PvP for other professions. Being unable to cleave down clones before they can spawn a bunch is important. This would give mesmer too much of an advantage. In PvE? Sure.

    no there wouldn't be any pop ups saying invuln, edited op my bad. might be better if they just had more vitality. 2 sec of invuln isn't really that big of a deal, and if it is it can be reduced to 1 sec.

    I cant really comment of the difficulty of spawning clones as mesmer as I don't play it much. Playing against it though mirage has no trouble loading me up with condi with how they currently are and core shatter has no issue bursting me from stealth. Sure you can buff their durability but you would have to sacrifice some damage for it.

    Depression and anxiety are the worst...

  • Skotlex.7580Skotlex.7580 Member ✭✭✭✭

    It's only WvW where clones need severe survival aid. In PvE they already have -95% damage from non direct target sources. In PvP it seems it's okay as it currently stands.

    Perhaps the better fix would be to apply the PvE setting (damage reduction) in all game modes, that would allow clones a survival chance when showered in scourge bombs during large scale WvW. Maybe except in PvP, where such a change would need more consideration.

  • Skotlex.7580Skotlex.7580 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 18, 2019

    deleted, internet hiccups.

  • @Stand The Wall.6987 said:

    @Zexanima.7851 said:
    All the clones would be popping up "invuln" or "0" where the real one would actually be taking damage. Besides that this would really suck to fight in PvP for other professions. Being unable to cleave down clones before they can spawn a bunch is important. This would give mesmer too much of an advantage. In PvE? Sure.

    no there wouldn't be any pop ups saying invuln, edited op my bad. might be better if they just had more vitality. 2 sec of invuln isn't really that big of a deal, and if it is it can be reduced to 1 sec.

    Your opponent would still see that no damage was done due to the lack of numbers. Counter play is still needed, and as I said, your opponent will see the ones that got damaged and the one(s) that did not and act accordingly.

    @Zexanima.7851 said:

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:

    @Zexanima.7851 said:
    All the clones would be popping up "invuln" or "0" where the real one would actually be taking damage. Besides that this would really suck to fight in PvP for other professions. Being unable to cleave down clones before they can spawn a bunch is important. This would give mesmer too much of an advantage. In PvE? Sure.

    no there wouldn't be any pop ups saying invuln, edited op my bad. might be better if they just had more vitality. 2 sec of invuln isn't really that big of a deal, and if it is it can be reduced to 1 sec.

    I cant really comment of the difficulty of spawning clones as mesmer as I don't play it much. Playing against it though mirage has no trouble loading me up with condi with how they currently are and core shatter has no issue bursting me from stealth. Sure you can buff their durability but you would have to sacrifice some damage for it.

    I second this. If you want clones to have invuln frames when they are created then there would need to be a sacrifice, something like mirage clones cannot use ambush skills during those frames.

    You have to remember that a large number of players have trouble finding the right Mesmer to hit already and this proposed change would not be a good thing.

    Now should there be a trait to reduced damage to clones in WvW like PvE? That is something that can be debated, but you'd also have to realize that even then it would help your opponent find the real Mesmer, and clones are useless to a dead Mesmer.

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:

    @Zexanima.7851 said:
    All the clones would be popping up "invuln" or "0" where the real one would actually be taking damage. Besides that this would really suck to fight in PvP for other professions. Being unable to cleave down clones before they can spawn a bunch is important. This would give mesmer too much of an advantage. In PvE? Sure.

    no there wouldn't be any pop ups saying invuln, edited op my bad. might be better if they just had more vitality. 2 sec of invuln isn't really that big of a deal, and if it is it can be reduced to 1 sec.

    Your opponent would still see that no damage was done due to the lack of numbers. Counter play is still needed, and as I said, your opponent will see the ones that got damaged and the one(s) that did not and act accordingly.

    @Zexanima.7851 said:

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:

    @Zexanima.7851 said:
    All the clones would be popping up "invuln" or "0" where the real one would actually be taking damage. Besides that this would really suck to fight in PvP for other professions. Being unable to cleave down clones before they can spawn a bunch is important. This would give mesmer too much of an advantage. In PvE? Sure.

    no there wouldn't be any pop ups saying invuln, edited op my bad. might be better if they just had more vitality. 2 sec of invuln isn't really that big of a deal, and if it is it can be reduced to 1 sec.

    I cant really comment of the difficulty of spawning clones as mesmer as I don't play it much. Playing against it though mirage has no trouble loading me up with condi with how they currently are and core shatter has no issue bursting me from stealth. Sure you can buff their durability but you would have to sacrifice some damage for it.

    I second this. If you want clones to have invuln frames when they are created then there would need to be a sacrifice, something like mirage clones cannot use ambush skills during those frames.

    You have to remember that a large number of players have trouble finding the right Mesmer to hit already and this proposed change would not be a good thing.

    Now should there be a trait to reduced damage to clones in WvW like PvE? That is something that can be debated, but you'd also have to realize that even then it would help your opponent find the real Mesmer, and clones are useless to a dead Mesmer.

    Realistically speaking, its better to be found in a sea of clones then not have any becouse they died to 1 tick of rangers arrow rain.
    Even in smallish scale of 8v8 to 10v10 you cant set up more then 2 clones. GL playing chrono and actually using f4 lol.

  • @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:

    @Zexanima.7851 said:
    All the clones would be popping up "invuln" or "0" where the real one would actually be taking damage. Besides that this would really suck to fight in PvP for other professions. Being unable to cleave down clones before they can spawn a bunch is important. This would give mesmer too much of an advantage. In PvE? Sure.

    no there wouldn't be any pop ups saying invuln, edited op my bad. might be better if they just had more vitality. 2 sec of invuln isn't really that big of a deal, and if it is it can be reduced to 1 sec.

    Your opponent would still see that no damage was done due to the lack of numbers. Counter play is still needed, and as I said, your opponent will see the ones that got damaged and the one(s) that did not and act accordingly.

    @Zexanima.7851 said:

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:

    @Zexanima.7851 said:
    All the clones would be popping up "invuln" or "0" where the real one would actually be taking damage. Besides that this would really suck to fight in PvP for other professions. Being unable to cleave down clones before they can spawn a bunch is important. This would give mesmer too much of an advantage. In PvE? Sure.

    no there wouldn't be any pop ups saying invuln, edited op my bad. might be better if they just had more vitality. 2 sec of invuln isn't really that big of a deal, and if it is it can be reduced to 1 sec.

    I cant really comment of the difficulty of spawning clones as mesmer as I don't play it much. Playing against it though mirage has no trouble loading me up with condi with how they currently are and core shatter has no issue bursting me from stealth. Sure you can buff their durability but you would have to sacrifice some damage for it.

    I second this. If you want clones to have invuln frames when they are created then there would need to be a sacrifice, something like mirage clones cannot use ambush skills during those frames.

    You have to remember that a large number of players have trouble finding the right Mesmer to hit already and this proposed change would not be a good thing.

    Now should there be a trait to reduced damage to clones in WvW like PvE? That is something that can be debated, but you'd also have to realize that even then it would help your opponent find the real Mesmer, and clones are useless to a dead Mesmer.

    Realistically speaking, its better to be found in a sea of clones then not have any becouse they died to 1 tick of rangers arrow rain.
    Even in smallish scale of 8v8 to 10v10 you cant set up more then 2 clones. GL playing chrono and actually using f4 lol.

    I'm not disputing the lifespan issue once battlefield numbers go above 5v5, but there is also small scale to consider. You'd break one aspect of WvW for Mesmers in order to have a shot at playing Mesmer in a zerg where 90% of the zerg are Scourges, FBs, and the occasional SpB and Scrapper?

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 18, 2019

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:

    @Zexanima.7851 said:
    All the clones would be popping up "invuln" or "0" where the real one would actually be taking damage. Besides that this would really suck to fight in PvP for other professions. Being unable to cleave down clones before they can spawn a bunch is important. This would give mesmer too much of an advantage. In PvE? Sure.

    no there wouldn't be any pop ups saying invuln, edited op my bad. might be better if they just had more vitality. 2 sec of invuln isn't really that big of a deal, and if it is it can be reduced to 1 sec.

    Your opponent would still see that no damage was done due to the lack of numbers. Counter play is still needed, and as I said, your opponent will see the ones that got damaged and the one(s) that did not and act accordingly.

    @Zexanima.7851 said:

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:

    @Zexanima.7851 said:
    All the clones would be popping up "invuln" or "0" where the real one would actually be taking damage. Besides that this would really suck to fight in PvP for other professions. Being unable to cleave down clones before they can spawn a bunch is important. This would give mesmer too much of an advantage. In PvE? Sure.

    no there wouldn't be any pop ups saying invuln, edited op my bad. might be better if they just had more vitality. 2 sec of invuln isn't really that big of a deal, and if it is it can be reduced to 1 sec.

    I cant really comment of the difficulty of spawning clones as mesmer as I don't play it much. Playing against it though mirage has no trouble loading me up with condi with how they currently are and core shatter has no issue bursting me from stealth. Sure you can buff their durability but you would have to sacrifice some damage for it.

    I second this. If you want clones to have invuln frames when they are created then there would need to be a sacrifice, something like mirage clones cannot use ambush skills during those frames.

    You have to remember that a large number of players have trouble finding the right Mesmer to hit already and this proposed change would not be a good thing.

    Now should there be a trait to reduced damage to clones in WvW like PvE? That is something that can be debated, but you'd also have to realize that even then it would help your opponent find the real Mesmer, and clones are useless to a dead Mesmer.

    Realistically speaking, its better to be found in a sea of clones then not have any becouse they died to 1 tick of rangers arrow rain.
    Even in smallish scale of 8v8 to 10v10 you cant set up more then 2 clones. GL playing chrono and actually using f4 lol.

    I'm not disputing the lifespan issue once battlefield numbers go above 5v5, but there is also small scale to consider. You'd break one aspect of WvW for Mesmers in order to have a shot at playing Mesmer in a zerg where 90% of the zerg are Scourges, FBs, and the occasional SpB and Scrapper?

    its not a rocket science to figure out solution, have clones take 5% reduced damage from AoE per enemy character when within 5000 range,
    in 5v5 its 25%. in 10v10 its 50%. in 20 v 20 it would cap at 90% or something.
    Doing SOMETHING is GOOD.
    Trying to fix the issue and failing is better then not trying, if it doesnt work say kitten it and revert.

    EDIT.
    Or make it so when there is more then 5 enemies in X area around you clones take -80% dmg from aoe.
    Or this or that, try something.

  • Stand The Wall.6987Stand The Wall.6987 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 18, 2019

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:
    Your opponent would still see that no damage was done due to the lack of numbers. Counter play is still needed, and as I said, your opponent will see the ones that got damaged and the one(s) that did not and act accordingly.

    err yeah you're right. maybe have the numbers show up but they don't actually count for damage? idk.

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:
    I'm not disputing the lifespan issue once battlefield numbers go above 5v5, but there is also small scale to consider. You'd break one aspect of WvW for Mesmers in order to have a shot at playing Mesmer in a zerg where 90% of the zerg are Scourges, FBs, and the occasional SpB and Scrapper?

    nah right now wvw zerging is broken cuz you can't spawn any clones, and mesmers don't really need any help in small scale. it would also imo save chrono since clone death is the reason why it fails.

    Te lazla otstara.

  • googel.3278googel.3278 Member ✭✭✭

    give mesmers something, delete the profession

  • Aeolus.3615Aeolus.3615 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 3, 2020

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:
    this would allow mesmers to actually use their profession mechanic in cases where its impossible and might even make chrono viable again.

    good idea or no?

    edit
    invuln wouldn't pop up on screen, clones would be like scourge shades.
    maybe even instead of invuln the clones could inherit the mesmers actual health at the time, vitality, and armor for 2 sec.

    Suposelly since damage output will be reduced slightly o overall i would like to see clones based on x% of Mesmer vitality.

    Maybe some could have 1 seconds evasion?

    Believe 2 sec invulnerable is bit to strong.

  • Stand The Wall.6987Stand The Wall.6987 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Aeolus.3615 said:

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:
    this would allow mesmers to actually use their profession mechanic in cases where its impossible and might even make chrono viable again.

    good idea or no?

    edit
    invuln wouldn't pop up on screen, clones would be like scourge shades.
    maybe even instead of invuln the clones could inherit the mesmers actual health at the time, vitality, and armor for 2 sec.

    Suposelly since damage output will be reduced slightly o overall i would like to see clones based on x% of Mesmer vitality.

    Maybe some could have 1 seconds evasion?

    Believe 2 sec invulnerable is bit to strong.

    yeah maybe 50% of vitality and 75% of armor

    Te lazla otstara.

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:

    @Aeolus.3615 said:

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:
    this would allow mesmers to actually use their profession mechanic in cases where its impossible and might even make chrono viable again.

    good idea or no?

    edit
    invuln wouldn't pop up on screen, clones would be like scourge shades.
    maybe even instead of invuln the clones could inherit the mesmers actual health at the time, vitality, and armor for 2 sec.

    Suposelly since damage output will be reduced slightly o overall i would like to see clones based on x% of Mesmer vitality.

    Maybe some could have 1 seconds evasion?

    Believe 2 sec invulnerable is bit to strong.

    yeah maybe 50% of vitality and 75% of armor

    100% armour so that real mesmer cant be found by cleaving, HP should be based upon mesmers HP to begin with.

  • Stand The Wall.6987Stand The Wall.6987 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:
    100% armour so that real mesmer cant be found by cleaving, HP should be based upon mesmers HP to begin with.

    no.

    Te lazla otstara.

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:
    100% armour so that real mesmer cant be found by cleaving, HP should be based upon mesmers HP to begin with.

    no.

    explain

  • Odik.4587Odik.4587 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:

    @Aeolus.3615 said:

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:
    this would allow mesmers to actually use their profession mechanic in cases where its impossible and might even make chrono viable again.

    good idea or no?

    edit
    invuln wouldn't pop up on screen, clones would be like scourge shades.
    maybe even instead of invuln the clones could inherit the mesmers actual health at the time, vitality, and armor for 2 sec.

    Suposelly since damage output will be reduced slightly o overall i would like to see clones based on x% of Mesmer vitality.

    Maybe some could have 1 seconds evasion?

    Believe 2 sec invulnerable is bit to strong.

    yeah maybe 50% of vitality and 75% of armor

    100% armour so that real CHRONO cant be found by cleaving, HP should be based upon CHRONO HP to begin with.

    May be then chrono would be a little more viable than now

  • @Stand The Wall.6987 said:
    this would allow mesmers to actually use their profession mechanic in cases where its impossible and might even make chrono viable again.

    good idea or no?

    edit
    invuln wouldn't pop up on screen, clones would be like scourge shades.
    maybe even instead of invuln the clones could inherit the mesmers actual health at the time, vitality, and armor for 2 sec.

    I have a better idea, every time a clone/phantasm/whatever is destroyed, have the mesmer lose 25% health.

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.3618 said:

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:
    this would allow mesmers to actually use their profession mechanic in cases where its impossible and might even make chrono viable again.

    good idea or no?

    edit
    invuln wouldn't pop up on screen, clones would be like scourge shades.
    maybe even instead of invuln the clones could inherit the mesmers actual health at the time, vitality, and armor for 2 sec.

    I have a better idea, every time a clone/phantasm/whatever is destroyed, have the mesmer lose 25% health.

    why do you even post this nonsense ?

  • Aeolus.3615Aeolus.3615 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.3618 said:

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:
    this would allow mesmers to actually use their profession mechanic in cases where its impossible and might even make chrono viable again.

    good idea or no?

    edit
    invuln wouldn't pop up on screen, clones would be like scourge shades.
    maybe even instead of invuln the clones could inherit the mesmers actual health at the time, vitality, and armor for 2 sec.

    I have a better idea, every time a clone/phantasm/whatever is destroyed, have the mesmer lose 25% health.

    why do you even post this nonsense ?

    That would be somewhat fair.

  • Hannelore.8153Hannelore.8153 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 4, 2020

    One thing that would help Chrono is if, for Chrono specifically, Phantasms counted towards F# skills like they used to (but not towards the limit). This would allow Chronos with good timing to gain a 2-3sec advantage on their Shatters over Core & Mirage.

    Hannah | Daisuki[SUKI] Founder, Ehmry Bay (formerly Jade Quarry) | Mains Mariyuuna/Tempest(PvE) & Terakura/Spellbreaker(WvW) | ♀♥♀

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Hannelore.8153 said:
    One thing that would help Chrono is if, for Chrono specifically, Phantasms counted towards F# skills like they used to (but not towards the limit). This would allow Chronos with good timing to gain a 2-3sec advantage on their Shatters over Core & Mirage.

    you mean shattering phantasms? in what world shattering your DAMAGE for DAMAGE would be worth it lol.

  • Lincolnbeard.1735Lincolnbeard.1735 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.3618 said:

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:
    this would allow mesmers to actually use their profession mechanic in cases where its impossible and might even make chrono viable again.

    good idea or no?

    edit
    invuln wouldn't pop up on screen, clones would be like scourge shades.
    maybe even instead of invuln the clones could inherit the mesmers actual health at the time, vitality, and armor for 2 sec.

    I have a better idea, every time a clone/phantasm/whatever is destroyed, have the mesmer lose 25% health.

    Wholeheartly agree!
    While you're at it make a patch also with this:

    • Every time you spend a bar of adrenaline you lose 15% of hp
    • Every time you use a virtue you lose 10% hp
    • Every time you change legendary you lose 20% hp
    • Every time you use a toolbelt you lose 10% hp
    • Every time your pet receives damage you lose the equal amount of hp
    • Every point of initiative you gain makes you lose 5% hp
    • Every time you change attunement you lose 10% hp
    • Every time you lose life force you lose the same amount of hp.

    How awesome! You sir are a genius!

    The degenerate

  • Noodle Ant.1605Noodle Ant.1605 Member ✭✭✭

    I assume these changes are mainly intended for core mesmer and mirage. To 'fix' chrono, chrono clones probably should be virtually indestructible instead (made a previous suggestion where 'destroyed' clones freeze in place and become untargetable, but still serve as shatter fodder, reanimating themselves upon shatter). Whether inevitable shatters requires slight changes to chrono shatters, I am unsure.

    BECAUSE as it currently stands, a 1 clone Mind Wrack already outdamages a 3 clone Split Second w/ no slow (what is a power build even relying on a rare condi for?)
    The damage difference between a 1 clone Mind Wrack and 3 clone Mind Wrack is ~ 1 hit of Cry of Frustration.
    Should core shatters should already be that impactful even when just 1 clone is shattered? Alternatively, what would be so bad about allowing chrono to freely build up 3 clones when core just only needs/wants to shatter 1?

    Maybe the other core shatters should be changed so that they are equally as impactful with only just 1 clone. Then buffing clone survivability would become less necessary and ANET gets to keep their 'clones are squishy to identify the real mesmer' design (remembering npc mesmers/clone users exist too).

    Shouldn't the gameplay tradeoff between core/chrono/mirage be just having a clone to shatter/constantly shattering 3 clones/keeping clones up for dmg? Or does it have be imposed restrictions like loss of IP, which destroys the spec in certain gamemodes 'just cuz'?

    @VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.3618 said:
    I have a better idea, every time 'whatever' is destroyed, have the mesmer lose 25% health.

    So if the mesmer is destroyed, they only lose 25% health? :open_mouth:

    pChrono (main), cWeaver and pReaper. An asura who likes snowflakes.

  • otto.5684otto.5684 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:
    this would allow mesmers to actually use their profession mechanic in cases where its impossible and might even make chrono viable again.

    good idea or no?

    edit
    invuln wouldn't pop up on screen, clones would be like scourge shades.
    maybe even instead of invuln the clones could inherit the mesmers actual health at the time, vitality, and armor for 2 sec.

    No. One of the ways to counter Mesmer in PvP is to quickly kill clones. Why should that be removed? It is not like Mesmer struggles in sustainability.

    In addition, this will not help chrono. Chrono’s issues are so fundamentally broken that this would not do much to help and will break so many other aspects.

  • Stand The Wall.6987Stand The Wall.6987 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @otto.5684 said:
    snips

    the biggest problem chrono faces (and core mes to a lesser extent) is that clones die way to quickly.

    Te lazla otstara.

  • My only real issue, that really annoys the heck out of me, is that I would like an option to replace mesmer clone-o-matic spammer with some more useful skills.
    I don't think mesmer should revolve entirely around clones, and also that alternatives should exist.

    GW1 mesmers are so much fun to play.

    Even if they didn't want to carry the interrupts legacy on, but at least should have kept hexes, and signets.
    Mesmer in gw1 is so much more than interrupts.

    You can use hundreds of builds without using a single interrupt.
    But the choice was there.
    Now you have no choice but to spam clones.
    Doesn't matter which weapon you use, you're stuck to it.

  • Lan Deathrider.5910Lan Deathrider.5910 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Adjusting the stats of clones is certainly a good thing to discuss, perhaps a traitline should adjust their stats much like Beastmastery does for pets.

    The invulnerability on creation would be wrong. First, it makes spot the Mesmer easier. Second, other players need the chance to clear the screen of the DPS and clutter.

    Can there be a trait somewhere that makes you and your clones invulnerable for X seconds under certain conditions? Sure, go for it. Make it a Chrono trait where if you hit 50% HP you and your clones are invulnerable for 2s, but they can't be shattered while invulnerable.

  • Stand The Wall.6987Stand The Wall.6987 Member ✭✭✭✭

    ppl keep on saying no invuln cuz it will make spotting them easier. as apposed to what? the clones dying immediately? the mesmer player clearly not behaving like a clone? cmon…

    Te lazla otstara.

  • @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.3618 said:

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:
    this would allow mesmers to actually use their profession mechanic in cases where its impossible and might even make chrono viable again.

    good idea or no?

    edit
    invuln wouldn't pop up on screen, clones would be like scourge shades.
    maybe even instead of invuln the clones could inherit the mesmers actual health at the time, vitality, and armor for 2 sec.

    I have a better idea, every time a clone/phantasm/whatever is destroyed, have the mesmer lose 25% health.

    why do you even post this nonsense ?

    because mesmers are game breaking OP. It is either that or remove stealth and lower damage by 75%. Or do you think it is balanced to take down a 18k enemy out of stealth in the fraction of a second?

  • @Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

    @VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.3618 said:

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:
    this would allow mesmers to actually use their profession mechanic in cases where its impossible and might even make chrono viable again.

    good idea or no?

    edit
    invuln wouldn't pop up on screen, clones would be like scourge shades.
    maybe even instead of invuln the clones could inherit the mesmers actual health at the time, vitality, and armor for 2 sec.

    I have a better idea, every time a clone/phantasm/whatever is destroyed, have the mesmer lose 25% health.

    Wholeheartly agree!
    While you're at it make a patch also with this:

    • Every time you spend a bar of adrenaline you lose 15% of hp
    • Every time you use a virtue you lose 10% hp
    • Every time you change legendary you lose 20% hp
    • Every time you use a toolbelt you lose 10% hp
    • Every time your pet receives damage you lose the equal amount of hp
    • Every point of initiative you gain makes you lose 5% hp
    • Every time you change attunement you lose 10% hp
    • Every time you lose life force you lose the same amount of hp.

    How awesome! You sir are a genius!

    when was the last time an elementalist hit you for 22k out of stealth? Or spammed you with half a douzend elementals that respawn all the time? Oh never? Yeah, thought so.

    Stop with your nonesense and wake up. There are three utterly broken classes in this game. Mesmer, thief, ranger. ANET should have acted ages ago.

  • viquing.8254viquing.8254 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.3618 said:

    @Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

    @VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.3618 said:

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:
    this would allow mesmers to actually use their profession mechanic in cases where its impossible and might even make chrono viable again.

    good idea or no?

    edit
    invuln wouldn't pop up on screen, clones would be like scourge shades.
    maybe even instead of invuln the clones could inherit the mesmers actual health at the time, vitality, and armor for 2 sec.

    I have a better idea, every time a clone/phantasm/whatever is destroyed, have the mesmer lose 25% health.

    Wholeheartly agree!
    While you're at it make a patch also with this:

    • Every time you spend a bar of adrenaline you lose 15% of hp
    • Every time you use a virtue you lose 10% hp
    • Every time you change legendary you lose 20% hp
    • Every time you use a toolbelt you lose 10% hp
    • Every time your pet receives damage you lose the equal amount of hp
    • Every point of initiative you gain makes you lose 5% hp
    • Every time you change attunement you lose 10% hp
    • Every time you lose life force you lose the same amount of hp.

    How awesome! You sir are a genius!

    when was the last time an elementalist hit you for 22k out of stealth? Or spammed you with half a douzend elementals that respawn all the time? Oh never? Yeah, thought so.

    Stop with your nonesense and wake up. There are three utterly broken classes in this game. Mesmer, thief, ranger. ANET should have acted ages ago.

    1) Don't play zerk if your class/gameplay can't manage it.
    2) Play class with passive auto burst/CC immune

    The last time I meet an elementalist, he hit me for 45k burn while having 90% evade uptime if you want to discuss about how elementalist are poor farmed class.

  • Lan Deathrider.5910Lan Deathrider.5910 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @viquing.8254 said:

    @VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.3618 said:

    @Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

    @VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.3618 said:

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:
    this would allow mesmers to actually use their profession mechanic in cases where its impossible and might even make chrono viable again.

    good idea or no?

    edit
    invuln wouldn't pop up on screen, clones would be like scourge shades.
    maybe even instead of invuln the clones could inherit the mesmers actual health at the time, vitality, and armor for 2 sec.

    I have a better idea, every time a clone/phantasm/whatever is destroyed, have the mesmer lose 25% health.

    Wholeheartly agree!
    While you're at it make a patch also with this:

    • Every time you spend a bar of adrenaline you lose 15% of hp
    • Every time you use a virtue you lose 10% hp
    • Every time you change legendary you lose 20% hp
    • Every time you use a toolbelt you lose 10% hp
    • Every time your pet receives damage you lose the equal amount of hp
    • Every point of initiative you gain makes you lose 5% hp
    • Every time you change attunement you lose 10% hp
    • Every time you lose life force you lose the same amount of hp.

    How awesome! You sir are a genius!

    when was the last time an elementalist hit you for 22k out of stealth? Or spammed you with half a douzend elementals that respawn all the time? Oh never? Yeah, thought so.

    Stop with your nonesense and wake up. There are three utterly broken classes in this game. Mesmer, thief, ranger. ANET should have acted ages ago.

    1) Don't play zerk if your class/gameplay can't manage it.
    2) Play class with passive auto burst/CC immune

    The last time I meet an elementalist, he hit me for 45k burn while having 90% evade uptime if you want to discuss about how elementalist are poor farmed class.

    90% evade uptime shouldn't exist either, but then neither should 45k burns in a competitive mode.

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:
    ppl keep on saying no invuln cuz it will make spotting them easier. as apposed to what? the clones dying immediately? the mesmer player clearly not behaving like a clone? cmon…

    In small scale those clones aren't dying in one hit unless a burst is blown on them. See the invulns and the one non invuln target means I throw my ground targeted skills that way. Zerg play, why would spot the Mesmer matter?

    Even if you disagree with that though making them invulnerable on creation would be WAY too op. Give them the Mesmer's stats or a reasonable portion of them via a traitline.

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 7, 2020

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

    @viquing.8254 said:

    @VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.3618 said:

    @Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

    @VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.3618 said:

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:
    this would allow mesmers to actually use their profession mechanic in cases where its impossible and might even make chrono viable again.

    good idea or no?

    edit
    invuln wouldn't pop up on screen, clones would be like scourge shades.
    maybe even instead of invuln the clones could inherit the mesmers actual health at the time, vitality, and armor for 2 sec.

    I have a better idea, every time a clone/phantasm/whatever is destroyed, have the mesmer lose 25% health.

    Wholeheartly agree!
    While you're at it make a patch also with this:

    • Every time you spend a bar of adrenaline you lose 15% of hp
    • Every time you use a virtue you lose 10% hp
    • Every time you change legendary you lose 20% hp
    • Every time you use a toolbelt you lose 10% hp
    • Every time your pet receives damage you lose the equal amount of hp
    • Every point of initiative you gain makes you lose 5% hp
    • Every time you change attunement you lose 10% hp
    • Every time you lose life force you lose the same amount of hp.

    How awesome! You sir are a genius!

    when was the last time an elementalist hit you for 22k out of stealth? Or spammed you with half a douzend elementals that respawn all the time? Oh never? Yeah, thought so.

    Stop with your nonesense and wake up. There are three utterly broken classes in this game. Mesmer, thief, ranger. ANET should have acted ages ago.

    1) Don't play zerk if your class/gameplay can't manage it.
    2) Play class with passive auto burst/CC immune

    The last time I meet an elementalist, he hit me for 45k burn while having 90% evade uptime if you want to discuss about how elementalist are poor farmed class.

    90% evade uptime shouldn't exist either, but then neither should 45k burns in a competitive mode.

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:
    ppl keep on saying no invuln cuz it will make spotting them easier. as apposed to what? the clones dying immediately? the mesmer player clearly not behaving like a clone? cmon…

    In small scale those clones aren't dying in one hit unless a burst is blown on them. See the invulns and the one non invuln target means I throw my ground targeted skills that way. Zerg play, why would spot the Mesmer matter?

    Even if you disagree with that though making them invulnerable on creation would be WAY too op. Give them the Mesmer's stats or a reasonable portion of them via a traitline.

    you realise that support firebrand can aoe cleave 1shot mesmer clones if he lands a crit right?
    most if not all power classes can 1shot them with mouse 1 with a crit.

  • InsaneQR.7412InsaneQR.7412 Member ✭✭✭✭

    For PvE fine. For competitive modes? Nope.

  • Ubi.4136Ubi.4136 Member ✭✭✭✭

    If they made them invulnerable, it would also mean they would have to add in that they can't be shattered while invulnerable either.

    Lost in the Maguuma (TC)
    For the geographically challenged, yes, Tarnished Coast is located IN the Maguuma Jungle.

  • otto.5684otto.5684 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

    @viquing.8254 said:

    @VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.3618 said:

    @Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

    @VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.3618 said:

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:
    this would allow mesmers to actually use their profession mechanic in cases where its impossible and might even make chrono viable again.

    good idea or no?

    edit
    invuln wouldn't pop up on screen, clones would be like scourge shades.
    maybe even instead of invuln the clones could inherit the mesmers actual health at the time, vitality, and armor for 2 sec.

    I have a better idea, every time a clone/phantasm/whatever is destroyed, have the mesmer lose 25% health.

    Wholeheartly agree!
    While you're at it make a patch also with this:

    • Every time you spend a bar of adrenaline you lose 15% of hp
    • Every time you use a virtue you lose 10% hp
    • Every time you change legendary you lose 20% hp
    • Every time you use a toolbelt you lose 10% hp
    • Every time your pet receives damage you lose the equal amount of hp
    • Every point of initiative you gain makes you lose 5% hp
    • Every time you change attunement you lose 10% hp
    • Every time you lose life force you lose the same amount of hp.

    How awesome! You sir are a genius!

    when was the last time an elementalist hit you for 22k out of stealth? Or spammed you with half a douzend elementals that respawn all the time? Oh never? Yeah, thought so.

    Stop with your nonesense and wake up. There are three utterly broken classes in this game. Mesmer, thief, ranger. ANET should have acted ages ago.

    1) Don't play zerk if your class/gameplay can't manage it.
    2) Play class with passive auto burst/CC immune

    The last time I meet an elementalist, he hit me for 45k burn while having 90% evade uptime if you want to discuss about how elementalist are poor farmed class.

    90% evade uptime shouldn't exist either, but then neither should 45k burns in a competitive mode.

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:
    ppl keep on saying no invuln cuz it will make spotting them easier. as apposed to what? the clones dying immediately? the mesmer player clearly not behaving like a clone? cmon…

    In small scale those clones aren't dying in one hit unless a burst is blown on them. See the invulns and the one non invuln target means I throw my ground targeted skills that way. Zerg play, why would spot the Mesmer matter?

    Even if you disagree with that though making them invulnerable on creation would be WAY too op. Give them the Mesmer's stats or a reasonable portion of them via a traitline.

    you realise that support firebrand can aoe cleave 1shot mesmer clones if he lands a crit right?
    most if not all power classes can 1shot them with mouse 1 with a crit.

    FB is not a strong AOE power. There are many builds that are far better in power AOE cleave. Regardless, this applies to melee clones. Ranged clones are typically too scattered around to be cleaved. If clones were so easy to kill Mesmer we have gone extinct from sPvP years ago, and it is not.

    Chrono needs much help, but this clone invulnerability is a misguided approach.

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @otto.5684 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

    @viquing.8254 said:

    @VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.3618 said:

    @Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

    @VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.3618 said:

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:
    this would allow mesmers to actually use their profession mechanic in cases where its impossible and might even make chrono viable again.

    good idea or no?

    edit
    invuln wouldn't pop up on screen, clones would be like scourge shades.
    maybe even instead of invuln the clones could inherit the mesmers actual health at the time, vitality, and armor for 2 sec.

    I have a better idea, every time a clone/phantasm/whatever is destroyed, have the mesmer lose 25% health.

    Wholeheartly agree!
    While you're at it make a patch also with this:

    • Every time you spend a bar of adrenaline you lose 15% of hp
    • Every time you use a virtue you lose 10% hp
    • Every time you change legendary you lose 20% hp
    • Every time you use a toolbelt you lose 10% hp
    • Every time your pet receives damage you lose the equal amount of hp
    • Every point of initiative you gain makes you lose 5% hp
    • Every time you change attunement you lose 10% hp
    • Every time you lose life force you lose the same amount of hp.

    How awesome! You sir are a genius!

    when was the last time an elementalist hit you for 22k out of stealth? Or spammed you with half a douzend elementals that respawn all the time? Oh never? Yeah, thought so.

    Stop with your nonesense and wake up. There are three utterly broken classes in this game. Mesmer, thief, ranger. ANET should have acted ages ago.

    1) Don't play zerk if your class/gameplay can't manage it.
    2) Play class with passive auto burst/CC immune

    The last time I meet an elementalist, he hit me for 45k burn while having 90% evade uptime if you want to discuss about how elementalist are poor farmed class.

    90% evade uptime shouldn't exist either, but then neither should 45k burns in a competitive mode.

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:
    ppl keep on saying no invuln cuz it will make spotting them easier. as apposed to what? the clones dying immediately? the mesmer player clearly not behaving like a clone? cmon…

    In small scale those clones aren't dying in one hit unless a burst is blown on them. See the invulns and the one non invuln target means I throw my ground targeted skills that way. Zerg play, why would spot the Mesmer matter?

    Even if you disagree with that though making them invulnerable on creation would be WAY too op. Give them the Mesmer's stats or a reasonable portion of them via a traitline.

    you realise that support firebrand can aoe cleave 1shot mesmer clones if he lands a crit right?
    most if not all power classes can 1shot them with mouse 1 with a crit.

    FB is not a strong AOE power. There are many builds that are far better in power AOE cleave. Regardless, this applies to melee clones. Ranged clones are typically too scattered around to be cleaved. If clones were so easy to kill Mesmer we have gone extinct from sPvP years ago, and it is not.

    Chrono needs much help, but this clone invulnerability is a misguided approach.

    thats my point, SUPPORT class can 1shot clones with aoe, let alone dps.
    and ranged clones are only as scattered as you let them be, with proper line of sight manipulation they walk into melee on good chunk of the maps.

  • @otto.5684 said:
    Chrono needs much help, but this clone invulnerability is a misguided approach.

    try to play chrono or any mes spec and build up 3 clones back to back, then tell me what would be a better solution? unless you're 1v1 against a class with low aoe its not that easy. besides this is not only a pvp problem.

    Te lazla otstara.

  • It would certainly be helpful. +1

    At the moment clones can't even stay alive for 1 second in wvw blob fights to have enough time to cast continumn split, unless they reverse the shatter changes (see other threads) this could be an alternative. It can be a WvW split change only.

  • Yasai.3549Yasai.3549 Member ✭✭✭

    I think Clones are fine right now.

    Give Chrono back Illusionary Persona.

    If I play a stupid build, I deserve to die.
    If I beat people on a stupid build, I deserve to get away with it.

  • @SoulGuardian.6203 said:
    My only real issue, that really annoys the heck out of me, is that I would like an option to replace mesmer clone-o-matic spammer with some more useful skills.
    I don't think mesmer should revolve entirely around clones, and also that alternatives should exist.

    GW1 mesmers are so much fun to play.

    Even if they didn't want to carry the interrupts legacy on, but at least should have kept hexes, and signets.
    Mesmer in gw1 is so much more than interrupts.

    You can use hundreds of builds without using a single interrupt.
    But the choice was there.
    Now you have no choice but to spam clones.
    Doesn't matter which weapon you use, you're stuck to it.

    So much builds... e-surge and key-stone, maybe panic-mesm too. And that's all about real build diversity. Except the situations, when you want to create temporary or completely fun build

    Yes, I would probably like a build that would be similar to the Mesmer from the first part (Mesmer was my main in GW1). But I can't say that the Mesmer from the first part was better.

    Mesmer from GW2 is what the Mesmer, as class, should have been in the first place. A magic-illusionist, not a mixture of silence and burning energy machine.

    Yes, the Mesmer in GW1 was fun, but the Mesmer in GW2 is so much better, more fun, and more exciting. And the illusion mechanics are what make Mesmer my favorite incarnation of the mage characters from all the many MMOs I've played.

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Loules.8601
    from what I can tell you guys have difference in tastes.
    but in all honesty I dont see a reason for mesmer to be unable to play as both.
    there is alot of useless skills that could be reworked into something playable, without hurting what YOU liking in mesmer, while giving a chance to create something what
    @SoulGuardian.6203 wants from mesmer.
    I always thought that It would be a cool idea to introduce either
    1 exp spec that has no illusions, and ( phantasms could still appear and do their thing, and then they get resource for it )
    2 create GM traits that LOWER the number of illusions, and in turn provide strong bonus to something.
    for example
    -1 maximum clones, for every removed boon apply 2 stacks of confusion.
    -1 maximum clones, when confusion lasts its entire duration, it deals its damage before dissapearing
    -1 maximum clones, after interrupt apply debuf on the enemy for X sec. if that oponent uses mobility skill apply chill and deal masive damage to them.
    shrug, I see big potential for fun traits, but nothing will be done. one can dream tho right

  • Crackmonster.2790Crackmonster.2790 Member ✭✭✭
    edited February 12, 2020

    We, we niid moar!

  • hahahaha! because that would make mesmers VIABLE again and undo about 2 yrs of dev nerfs.