Jump to content
  • Sign Up

Perma stealth thief "counter"


Virdo.1540

Recommended Posts

@"KrHome.1920" said:Just to clarify the issue: this thread is not about thieves soloing lords.

It was more about the "what to do" thing they asked, and they also mentioned an example of the thief being in the lord room:

@Virdo.1540 said:You see an thief that managed to hide somewhere inside the lord roomCan anyone tell me what to do against them or to find them?

How do you know if the thief is running bunker or not though? We can only assume but not know exactly. Thief portal is limited to 5ppl in wvw so it won't really be a zerg, until they portal someone else who can portal more in like a mesmer but by then as per this example, the home zerg should already be alerted since there is someone already keeping an eye on the thief. Depending on which structure they are in will depend on whether they can get that portal on inner to anyone outside of outer as well. Almost all of the time I've run into thieves hiding in structures they were glass, at least they were when I killed them with only the minor few being condi deadeye, can't say I've really run into any bunker ones yet, most are going to be running sa/trickery/de unless they go acro somewhere. There are probably some running bunker or have a template they can switch to for moments like these though but I have not run into them so far. The servers I'm on don't let thieves or mes stay in long, they are like rabid dogs and don't give them a chance hehe. I think it is probably more prevalent in lower population hours since it's easier not to get noticed, but ppt zergs do tend to ignore these things in busy hours so there's always a chance that thief or mes will tuck themselves somewhere.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Revealing the theif isn't the problem, its finding them to reveal (depending if they have shadow step up) they mostly die with in seconds of reveal. People say they can just clear reveal... sure that's why you immediately interrupt cc them. I cought a lot of thieves with reveal then bulls charge using "sight beyond sight!". People reveal and dont bother to interrupt shadow melds and I am sure every class has at least 1 cc/interrupt that can be used relatively quickly

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yeah the interrupts are invaluable, especially when you're dealing with shadow melds and it can put them dead in the water. Many de's I run across tend to use it casually to keep up their stealth or break a reveal too often, and it inevitably leads to their death if you can get in that one good interrupt.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@"Fat Disgrace.4275" said:Revealing the theif isn't the problem, its finding them to reveal (depending if they have shadow step up) they mostly die with in seconds of reveal. People say they can just clear reveal... sure that's why you immediately interrupt cc them. I cought a lot of thieves with reveal then bulls charge using "sight beyond sight!". People reveal and dont bother to interrupt shadow melds and I am sure every class has at least 1 cc/interrupt that can be used relatively quickly

its not like all professions are that quick to land 2 hits on them

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Virdo.1540 said:

@"Fat Disgrace.4275" said:Revealing the theif isn't the problem, its finding them to reveal (depending if they have shadow step up) they mostly die with in seconds of reveal. People say they can just clear reveal... sure that's why you immediately interrupt cc them. I cought a lot of thieves with reveal then bulls charge using "sight beyond sight!". People reveal and dont bother to interrupt shadow melds and I am sure every class has at least 1 cc/interrupt that can be used relatively quickly

its not like all professions are that quick to land 2 hits on them

Why not? What cant

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Fat Disgrace.4275 said:

@Fat Disgrace.4275 said:Revealing the theif isn't the problem, its finding them to reveal (depending if they have shadow step up) they mostly die with in seconds of reveal. People say they can just clear reveal... sure that's why you immediately interrupt cc them. I cought a lot of thieves with reveal then bulls charge using "sight beyond sight!". People reveal and dont bother to interrupt shadow melds and I am sure every class has at least 1 cc/interrupt that can be used relatively quickly

its not like all professions are that quick to land 2 hits on them

Why not? What cant

against good thiefs, nobody could

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Virdo.1540 said:

@Fat Disgrace.4275 said:Revealing the theif isn't the problem, its finding them to reveal (depending if they have shadow step up) they mostly die with in seconds of reveal. People say they can just clear reveal... sure that's why you immediately interrupt cc them. I cought a lot of thieves with reveal then bulls charge using "sight beyond sight!". People reveal and dont bother to interrupt shadow melds and I am sure every class has at least 1 cc/interrupt that can be used relatively quickly

its not like all professions are that quick to land 2 hits on them

Why not? What cant

against good thiefs, nobody could

Alone in the open? probably not but this is inside a keep hiding ready to portal enemy baddies in so I am sure there are many others around

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@"Svarty.8019" said:You probably want to call a specialist 1-shot ranger and multiple Stealth Traps. Ranger can reveal it for 6s with Sic Em (it's OP so that Rangers can counter thieves). Even then, the Ranger could easily get taken out by a good thief.

You have to have a target for Sic'em to work. It does not reveal - Guildwiki "Cannot be used without a valid targeted enemy." It keeps them from stealthing for 6 seconds AFTER they've been revealed. But once you ave a thief targeted you interrupt and rapid fire(doesn't lose lock once it is activated on a target) them to death.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Best ways to track one down is mount up and use "sniff", area it covers is pretty large, look at the mini map, it will make a sound and add a dot of their location on the mini map, you then go to that location and throw a marking trap on them.

The problem however is not finding them, but killing them. Stealth stacking they can have only a few seconds of being out of stealth and due to how the game engine works, they can be getting ready to stack stealth by the time they render on your screen. The other issue comes from the fact in this situation, they do NOT want to fight and will often swap to a build that is full mobility/stealth. Because of this, even after hitting them with the trap, they will be 2,000+ range away waiting for marked to go away (or remove in the case of DE) and restealth by the time you catch up. It's really not that hard to do. If they stand and fight, it's an easy kill for me, however they never do this, as they are the new mesmer for porting.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@"TinkTinkPOOF.9201" said:Best ways to track one down is mount up and use "sniff", area it covers is pretty large, look at the mini map, it will make a sound and add a dot of their location on the mini map, you then go to that location and throw a marking trap on them.

The problem however is not finding them, but killing them. Stealth stacking they can have only a few seconds of being out of stealth and due to how the game engine works, they can be getting ready to stack stealth by the time they render on your screen. The other issue comes from the fact in this situation, they do NOT want to fight and will often swap to a build that is full mobility/stealth. Because of this, even after hitting them with the trap, they will be 2,000+ range away waiting for marked to go away (or remove in the case of DE) and restealth by the time you catch up. It's really not that hard to do. If they stand and fight, it's an easy kill for me, however they never do this, as they are the new mesmer for porting.

Sniff doesn't work on players in stealth. =P

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Clownmug.8357 said:

@"TinkTinkPOOF.9201" said:Best ways to track one down is mount up and use "sniff", area it covers is pretty large, look at the mini map, it will make a sound and add a dot of their location on the mini map, you then go to that location and throw a marking trap on them.

The problem however is not finding them, but killing them. Stealth stacking they can have only a few seconds of being out of stealth and due to how the game engine works, they can be getting ready to stack stealth by the time they render on your screen. The other issue comes from the fact in this situation, they do NOT want to fight and will often swap to a build that is full mobility/stealth. Because of this, even after hitting them with the trap, they will be 2,000+ range away waiting for marked to go away (or remove in the case of DE) and restealth by the time you catch up. It's really not that hard to do. If they stand and fight, it's an easy kill for me, however they never do this, as they are the new mesmer for porting.

Sniff doesn't work on players in stealth. =P

yep, and reveal from traps isnt really working

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • You gotta snag 'em early while your zerg is there and they're revealed on the map. Split up and give them nowhere to go. Same with mesmers, they can build to be nigh uncatchable too, though they have to put a bit more effort into it.
  • Hope your group has rangers or other decent ranged options. Melee won't cut it against thieves who put that extra emphasis on stealth and mobility rather than damage. One ranger alone likely won't work as that thief can dance circles around them, but multiple rangers with longbows out can cover a decent area if positioned correctly. Bringing your own thieves to defend is also an option. Fight fire with fire, and all that.
  • Call it out in chat, let the server decide how badly they want a thief roaming around their keep knowing what they can do.

That said, I do agree thief portal should work more similarly to other portal teleports (such as sand swell) and not function like a mini-mesmer portal. Not sure what Anet was thinking there. XP

~ Kovu

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@subversiontwo.7501 said:I'll leave it to someone else to mention some more creative and fun way to deal with it, however, it is no secret what the two most common ways to deal with or deter (the steaming pile of dung that is...) the Deadeye is.

Condi bunkers if solo or get friends and run double pocket healers. You know, that other stuff that people in the solo-small world usually whine about B) . That's not to say that the DE's can't adapt to condi but most unspecific builds tend to be a bit low on cleanses so you can push off or drop most/mediocre players even in stealth. If they adapt they are not really roaming and more so targetting you and then you can come up with any other plausible scenario since it could play out in a myriad of ways (eg., they may as well just bring a friend instead of adjusting their build, it's all about ganking you anyway, then you may as well get friends too and just scale it up to 5 where focus setups stops becomming so dominant).

In fact, that has always been the case all the way back since vanilla. Thieves were a hardcounter to Mesmers back then so most Mesmers ran with a set of dire in their bags at least (if Thieves were too prevalent) while double support and tripple whatever has been a staple for most larger organized gameplay since forever, even if not required.

condi bunkers are terrible, since thiefs can cleanse everything with every of their dozends of back ports

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Clownmug.8357 said:

@"TinkTinkPOOF.9201" said:Best ways to track one down is mount up and use "sniff", area it covers is pretty large, look at the mini map, it will make a sound and add a dot of their location on the mini map, you then go to that location and throw a marking trap on them.

The problem however is not finding them, but killing them. Stealth stacking they can have only a few seconds of being out of stealth and due to how the game engine works, they can be getting ready to stack stealth by the time they render on your screen. The other issue comes from the fact in this situation, they do NOT want to fight and will often swap to a build that is full mobility/stealth. Because of this, even after hitting them with the trap, they will be 2,000+ range away waiting for marked to go away (or remove in the case of DE) and restealth by the time you catch up. It's really not that hard to do. If they stand and fight, it's an easy kill for me, however they never do this, as they are the new mesmer for porting.

Sniff doesn't work on players in stealth. =P

You have to think like the thief, in most cases they do not stealth 100% of the time, they stealth, LOS and wait, if they see someone coming they will stealth, as stacking stealth makes noise and can give away position. Sniff in say middle Garri will cover most of the structure often times pinging the thief/mes, this works very often for me, they will stack stealth when they see you moving their direction, which is why you toss a reveal. If they stealthed and moved, place a normal stealth trap as they will probably go back once you move locations, by this time sniff should almost be off CD, which you can use again to see where they moved to and push them to return to the first spot.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If i run one of my DE permastealth (one is condi dire tank and one zerk ) i cant be killed if i try hard.... once i get bored and start being lazy ... its chance to catch me.Why doing it ? Keep being attacked, no wp. Chance to portal in more ppl for takeover. Or just just keep ppl busy (sometimes more than 15 try to hunt...)Sometimes ppl just get bored trying to hunt... and if we are 2-3 in... we can take it.. (fast template change helps alot )

From whole experience with thief for long time... it get easier and easier to permastealth ... also templates helps a lot that i have 4 different eq and 5 builds to switch on run... hope they will look on it... but dont think so.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@intox.6347 said:If i run one of my DE permastealth (one is condi dire tank and one zerk ) i cant be killed if i try hard.... once i get bored and start being lazy ... its chance to catch me.Why doing it ? Keep being attacked, no wp. Chance to portal in more ppl for takeover. Or just just keep ppl busy (sometimes more than 15 try to hunt...)Sometimes ppl just get bored trying to hunt... and if we are 2-3 in... we can take it.. (fast template change helps alot )

From whole experience with thief for long time... it get easier and easier to permastealth ... also templates helps a lot that i have 4 different eq and 5 builds to switch on run... hope they will look on it... but dont think so.

A lot of that comes down to most people just not caring anymore and too many people don't take cc's or any kind of stops. The window for prime time action is shorter and some clown can bunny hop around your keep to try to lure people into a chase but no one wants to burn through whatever time they get anymore.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@kash.9213 said:

@intox.6347 said:If i run one of my DE permastealth (one is condi dire tank and one zerk )
i cant be killed if i try hard
.... once i get bored and start being lazy ... its chance to catch me.Why doing it ? Keep being attacked, no wp. Chance to portal in more ppl for takeover. Or just just keep ppl busy (sometimes more than 15 try to hunt...)Sometimes ppl just get bored trying to hunt... and if we are 2-3 in... we can take it.. (fast template change helps alot )

From whole experience with thief for long time... it get easier and easier to permastealth ... also templates helps a lot that i have 4 different eq and 5 builds to switch on run... hope they will look on it... but dont think so.

A lot of that comes down to most people just not caring anymore and too many people don't take cc's or any kind of stops. The window for prime time action is shorter and some clown can bunny hop around your keep to try to lure people into a chase but no one wants to burn through whatever time they get anymore.

^^This. Got better things to do that chase some little shit thief around the castle or keep. The time I waste trying to dispose of him is time where I'm not earning any xp, badges, or loot bags, or fun. I'll go fight people that actually want to fight and are not going to run and hide every other second.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Burnfall.9573 said:

@"XenesisII.1540" said:Ignore them and wait for the keep to flip, then take it back 5 mins later. Then come to the forums and post about it and wait a very long time for an answer because anet loves terribad stealth mechanics.

Or keep chasing them around providing them a laugh I guess.

just within 2 minutes, i was +1 shotted over 18k with Death Judgment.
Yes the same Toxic Death Judgment since guild wars 2 beta in addition to 8 years of it.
Not only that Anet loves terrible stealth mechanics, they find absolutely nothing wrong with Toxic mechanics as well

'Death's Judgement (Rifle #4) ranges anywhere between 42k - 60k per shot so a pretty large spread'

If Thief Profession is either redesigned from the ground-up or be completely deleted from the game, expect Nothing from the patch

So not only has death's judgement, a skill on rifle, been around for the 8 years since beta, but it's also on rifle 4 so it's a spammable 42-60 shot in WvW as well as PvE? It's a good job that none of that is even remotely true, otherwise it would definitely need nerfs.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Jugglemonkey.8741 said:

@"XenesisII.1540" said:Ignore them and wait for the keep to flip, then take it back 5 mins later. Then come to the forums and post about it and wait a very long time for an answer because anet loves terribad stealth mechanics.

Or keep chasing them around providing them a laugh I guess.

just within 2 minutes, i was +1 shotted over 18k with Death Judgment.
Yes the same Toxic Death Judgment since guild wars 2 beta in addition to 8 years of it.
Not only that Anet loves terrible stealth mechanics, they find absolutely nothing wrong with Toxic mechanics as well

'Death's Judgement (Rifle #4) ranges anywhere between 42k - 60k per shot so a pretty large spread'

If Thief Profession is either redesigned from the ground-up or be completely deleted from the game, expect Nothing from the patch

So not only has death's judgement, a skill on rifle, been around for the 8 years since beta, but it's also on rifle 4 so it's a spammable 42-60 shot in WvW as well as PvE? It's a good job that none of that is even remotely true, otherwise it would definitely need nerfs.

Ive stopped paying attention to that poster. They have a very specific agenda.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...