Weaver and Firebrand are problems

[Sigmoid.7082]

@Fueki.4753 said:

@Aza.2105 said:

@"KrHome.1920" said:You must have missed the huge balance patch a year ago or so, where pretty much every condi skill in the game was changed to apply less stacks but for a longer duration to achieve exactly that "slowly ramping" effect.

It didn't work.They need to tackle the condition damage stat.

Conditions in general aren't the problem but certain builds are.

Every time its the same narrative:

• P1: "Condi is op"
• P2: "Why?"
• P1: "Because [insert meta/cheese build that is clearly unbalanced] is a thing!!!!!"
• P3: "So isn't that it just that build?"
• P1: "No all condi is OP..I mean look at [insert one of the other condi builds that is OP]..all condi is!!!"

etc. Its always the whole damage type never the build for some reason.Literally every time people say condi is op they will reference a meta build and then generalise all conditions based on how that meta build performs. Remember when all condi was MASSIVE AOE because of scourge? Where are those complaints now? You don't see them since scourge got nerfed/balanced and really isn't plated. Its almost as if condi wasn't OP but the build itself..hmmmm. You dont see complaints about condi engi, warrior, rev, ranger at all because the builds aren't strong.

I'm still going to maintain one of the reason people don't like conditions is because they don't know why they are dying because the death log is in no way informative enough for conditions compared to how it is for strike damage.

As soon as fire weaver gets nerfed the complaints about condi will die down until another condi build rises up. Does Fire Weaver need balancing? Yes. Is condi in general broken. No. Its actually kinda weak outside of its meta builds.

[Kaburro.4712]

But is Reaper bugged? (less than a second)

[Sigmoid.7082]

@"Kaburro.4712" said:But is Reaper bugged? (less than a second)

This takes far more than a second to perform. Please stop exaggerating...

You can't modify the speed of leaps anymore so deaths charge takes the full second. Soul spiral with qicknees still takes around 2s. The auto chain under quickness completes in just over 2s and it happened twice in your photo.

This is literally just under 10s of combat...not "less than a second".

I don't know what you're trying to prove or what agenda you're trying to push but blatantly lying won't get you anywhere.

[Kaburro.4712]

@Sigmoid.7082 said:

@"Kaburro.4712" said:But is Reaper bugged? (less than a second)

This takes far more than a second to perform. Please stop exaggerating...

You can't modify the speed of leaps anymore so deaths charge takes the full second. Soul spiral with qicknees still takes around 2s. The auto chain under quickness completes in just over 2s and it happened twice in your photo.

This is literally just under 10s of combat...not "less than a second".

I don't know what you're trying to prove or what agenda you're trying to push but blatantly lying won't get you anywhere.

And If I tell you that I most probably exagerated and it wouldnt took more than 3 sec? why do you think I wounder if reaper is bugged?

[Gamble.4580]

Meh reaper can fear bomb anything so quickly it can feel like a second.

[mortrialus.3062]

@TorQ.7041 said:

@Sigmoid.7082 said:

@KrHome.1920 said:

@Zenix.6198 said:

@"Fueki.4753" said:Or better yet:Chop down Condition damage in general.It should not be able to burst.

That hasn't been true since HoT really.Considering the games overall lifetime, condition damage has shifted to a more burst oriented playstyle a long time ago.So the argument that Condi dmg should be this slowly ramping, incremental damage over time style is long outdated.You must have missed the huge balance patch a year ago or so, where pretty much every condi skill in the game was changed to apply less stacks but for a longer duration to achieve exactly that "slowly ramping" effect.So if a condi build can burst, then this is not intended (anet made clear how they want the condi playstyle to look like) and deserves a change or even nerf.

Condi's "burst" in the same way power does: not avoiding a lot of attacks in a small time frame or big damage skills in a chain. Just because its a different damage type doesn't somehow negate the fact you are failing to avoid damage. For some reason people feel they should be punished less because its condition damage and "DaMaGe OvEr TiMe ShOuLd bE sLoW". You still need to avoid attacks and strong damage combos else you will die at an ever increasing rate...this should and will always be a thing.

There seems to be some double standard between taking e.g. 15k power damage in 0~2s vs taking 15k condi damage in 3~6s.

Just like mortrialus said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:Taking more hits means taking more damage. Taking more hits in a very short window results in more damage faster. This is true whether we're talking power damage or condition damage. You get rid of that simple principal and then you're left with a system where for condition damage landing additional hits no longer matters and has no value, in a way that makes it either complete garbage or extremely op. Simple as that.

Besides conditions in general are not a problem its specific builds that are.

While I agree that taking a direct hit should be no different. I disagree with the ease of application.

Power attacks from direct damage have large cool downs, a warrior can arch slice and hundred blades within a time frame. Outside of that a warrior cannot damage you. With alot of condi classes. You can avoid the massive burst but the slow ticks can then also kill you.

(I am ok with how mesmer currently is,this is for reference) For example you can evade a mesmer (the old build), pistol 4 and 5. You are safe right? You are not. It's clones will passively tick your hp and you will have to leave over time. Is there smart play involved? You dodged his skills right?

Here's the thing though. So let's flip the script here a little. So let's say you're fighting a Holosmith. You avoid Photon Forge 3, the 5, and the 4. Are you safe? No. Because you still have to contend with unlimited Photon auto attacks and nearly unlimited Photon Forge 2s.

Damage is an unlimited resource in GW2, this applies to both Power damage and Condition Damage. There's no mana system that prevents you from ever straight up 100% running out of attacks.

There might be a lot of stuff about mesmer's kit that does need ironing out and being made more fair to combat. For example condition clone autos. But condition staff is balanced around having those clones. Now the game might be healthier if mesmer clones didn't do condition damage, but that damage would still need to be rolled into the main mesmer's damage to balance it out.

Not that anyone asked but here's a list of DPS numbers on both auto attack chains on meta builds as well as a handful of relevant combos. On these assume that

1. Meta build. This means that for thieves, guardian and herald we're looking at Maurader amulet. For Warriors, Rangers, Soulbeasts, Reapers and Holosmiths we're looking at Demolisher amulet. For Weavers we're on sage with the meta build. For core Necromancer and Condition Guardian we're on Carrion. For Mirage we're on Deadshot. For Power mesmer we're on Berserker's.
2. For most of these they are done on the Medium Target Golem. For a handful that have a long ramp up such as Condition Mirage and Weaver I also double tested it against the Indestructible golems to see how it compares with full ramp up potential and am posting the higher number.

These are the DPS numbers using arc dps, with some slight amount of noise as all these need to leave combat after finishing the kill or waiting for the combat break after getting distance from the Indestructible golem.

Engineer Rifle: 1479Photon Forge Auto: 2137Photon Forge Auto with Quickness: 3328

Warrior Greatsword Auto Attacks: 2272Warrior Arcing Slice into Greatsword Autos: 3158Warrior Bull's Charge into Frenzy Hundred Blades Arcing Slice ASAP combo: 5157Spellbreaker Dagger: 2225Warrior Rifle: 1305

Herald Sword: 2223Herald Phase Traversal into Sword 4+5 then Auto Attacks: 5391

Daredevil Sword: 2523Daredevil Pistol Whip Spam: 2638Daredevil Dagger: 2483Daredevil Shortbow: 3433 with bounces (I think its safe to assume 1144 without bounces, golem positioning makes this kind of impossible to test)Daredevil Cluster Bomb spam: 2706Deadeye Kneeling Rifle: 1937Deadeye Binding Shadows into Mark into Three Round Burst Spam: 7162Deadeye Binding Shadows into Mark into Spotter's Shot: 5095

Condition Mirage Axe: 1492Condition Mirage Staff No Clones with bounces: 846 (Safe to assume ~425 without bounces)Condition Mirage Staff 3 Clones with bounces: 1684 3 Clones with bounces (Safe to assume ~850 without bounces)Condition Mirage Staff 3 Clones Ambush Spam: 2465Condition Mirage Scepter no clones : 675

Condition Mirage Scepter 3 clones: 984Condition Mirage Scepter 3 clones with ambush spam: 1164Condition Mirage Pistol 4 into Staff Ambush spam: 2452Power Mesmer Max Range Greatsword Berserker's Amulet: 2170Power Mesmer Sword Berserker's Amulet: 2190Power Mesmer Berserker's Blurred Frenzy into Sword Autos: 3513Power Mesmer full burst combo (LOL): 16,400

Ranger Greatsword: 1774Ranger Greatsword with Rock Gazelle: 2857Ranger Quickening Zephyr into Maul into greatsword autos with Rock Gazelle: 4452Axe Autos No Bounce: 1626Axe Autos no bounce with Rock Gazelle: 2283Ranger Longbow max range autos: 1464Ranger Longbow max range Rapid Fire into autos: 1885Ranger Longbow Max Range Rapid Fire into autos with Smokescale: 2615Sic Em Soulbeast Merged Quickening Zephyr Rapid Fire into autos: 5232

Fire Weaver Sword Autos in Fire Attunement: 1712Fire Weaver Fire Attunement Glyph of Elemental Power and Primordial Stance: 2842Fresh Air Weaver Scepter Autos in Air Attunement: 1661

Guardian Greatsword: 2321Guardian F1 Judges Intervention Whirling Wrath into Greatsword Autos: 3211Guardian Sword: 2340Guardian Power Scepter: 2151Condition Guardian F1>Torch4>auto: 2481Dragonhunter Longbow: 1565

Power Reaper Axe: 1519Power Reaper Build 10 vuln with auto then Ghastly Claws: 2642Power Reaper Greatsword: 2715Reaper's Shroud Reaper's Onslaught Autos: 4436Reaper's Shroud Soul Spiral into Autos: 5822Core Necromancer Scepter: 899Condi Core Necromancer Death Shroud: 1803

[Aza.2105]

They can fix both weaver and firebrand without nerfing them. Here is how:

• Make some skills un-evadable.
• Make some skills be able to cleanse pulsing damaging aoes.

[Fueki.4753]

@Aza.2105 said:They can fix both weaver and firebrand without nerfing them. Here is how:

• Make some skills un-evadable.
• Make some skills be able to cleanse pulsing damaging aoes.

The game needs serious toning down in effectiveness, not even more powercreep.Powercreep already ruined too much.

[MyPuppy.8970]

@Aza.2105 said:They can fix both weaver and firebrand without nerfing them. Here is how:

• Make some skills un-evadable.
• Make some skills be able to cleanse pulsing damaging aoes.

I'm pretty sure there are.

[Fantasylife.7981]

Bro Firebrand, Weaver and Most condition classes are so strong the dot is tooo much I'm plat I'm rolling with 2 condi clense skills and 2x sigils I still die to condition fairly easy is just too strong. Also Thief seems to be crazy right now.

[Lord of the Fire.6870]

@MyPuppy.8970 said:

@Aza.2105 said:They can fix both weaver and firebrand without nerfing them. Here is how:

• Make some skills un-evadable.
• Make some skills be able to cleanse pulsing damaging aoes.

I'm pretty sure there are.

Jupp there are problem is you must have the right class to have access to them e.g eles shock aura or renegade staff 5.

After I played in this season I must admin the current weaver built have too much evade or at least something is fishy about it they shouldn't have that much also I saw in wvw a condi weaver with 50% barrier on his hp points . How ? I don't know this shouldn't be possible under normal circumstances.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

@Lord of the Fire.6870 said:

@MyPuppy.8970 said:

@Aza.2105 said:They can fix both weaver and firebrand without nerfing them. Here is how:

• Make some skills un-evadable.
• Make some skills be able to cleanse pulsing damaging aoes.

I'm pretty sure there are.

Jupp there are problem is you must have the right class to have access to them e.g eles shock aura or renegade staff 5.

After I played in this season I must admin the current weaver built have too much evade or at least something is fishy about it they shouldn't have that much also I saw in wvw a conid weaver with 50% barrier on his hp points . How ? I don't know this shouldn't be possible under normal circumstances.

No ur all wrong just like I was half year ago or more when I said weaver be a issue and got a lot of flack like I was crazy now youtubers and streamers calling them most powerful spec in game and people are seeing what I saw lol. Fb is still to good at its support and boonspam for its given offense etc but all this may change come big patch end of feb/march.Only time will tell.

[Fueki.4753]

@Lord of the Fire.6870 said:After I played in this season I must admin the current weaver built have too much evadeIt's not just Weaver.It's anything with Evades having too much, including Thief and Mirage, which already were the top dogs of running away and denying attacks.

[Lord of the Fire.6870]

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@Lord of the Fire.6870 said:

@MyPuppy.8970 said:

@Aza.2105 said:They can fix both weaver and firebrand without nerfing them. Here is how:

• Make some skills un-evadable.
• Make some skills be able to cleanse pulsing damaging aoes.

I'm pretty sure there are.

Jupp there are problem is you must have the right class to have access to them e.g eles shock aura or renegade staff 5.

After I played in this season I must admin the current weaver built have too much evade or at least something is fishy about it they shouldn't have that much also I saw in wvw a conid weaver with 50% barrier on his hp points . How ? I don't know this shouldn't be possible under normal circumstances.

No ur all wrong just like I was half year ago or more when I said weaver be a issue and got a lot of flack like I was crazy now youtubers and streamers calling them most powerful spec in game and people are seeing what I saw lol. Fb is still to good at its support and boonspam for its given offense etc but all this may change come big patch end of feb/march.Only time will tell.

The problem is before this season I never met one with this built also I know how many evade a weaver has which isn't really the problem but those guys either kill people instantly with condis or just standing and I get evaded evaded evaded without him/her moving or just moving normal no dodge no spin.

That condi weaver is a bit outside the power curve was also clear since the merged traits which where before base to 2 different condi builds everyone was expecting a nerf which hasn't come.

[Khalisto.5780]

weaver needs a 20% condi duration nerf and 20% cd increase on primordial stance, then i think it's ok

i really hope all classe get more severely nerfed than that something stronger than druid and chrono are now, but not much stronger

[ollbirtan.2915]

Just nerf all classes! from now-on all classes pvp in a loincloth wielding a stick.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

@Lord of the Fire.6870 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@Lord of the Fire.6870 said:

@MyPuppy.8970 said:

@Aza.2105 said:They can fix both weaver and firebrand without nerfing them. Here is how:

• Make some skills un-evadable.
• Make some skills be able to cleanse pulsing damaging aoes.

I'm pretty sure there are.

Jupp there are problem is you must have the right class to have access to them e.g eles shock aura or renegade staff 5.

After I played in this season I must admin the current weaver built have too much evade or at least something is fishy about it they shouldn't have that much also I saw in wvw a conid weaver with 50% barrier on his hp points . How ? I don't know this shouldn't be possible under normal circumstances.

No ur all wrong just like I was half year ago or more when I said weaver be a issue and got a lot of flack like I was crazy now youtubers and streamers calling them most powerful spec in game and people are seeing what I saw lol. Fb is still to good at its support and boonspam for its given offense etc but all this may change come big patch end of feb/march.Only time will tell.

The problem is before this season I never met one with this built also I know how many evade a weaver has which isn't really the problem but those guys either kill people instantly with condis or just standing and I get evaded evaded evaded without him/her moving or just moving normal no dodge no spin.

That condi weaver is a bit outside the power curve was also clear since the merged traits which where before base to 2 different condi builds everyone was expecting a nerf which hasn't come.

They seem to have crap ton of stability access on top of everything to boot.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

@Khalisto.5780 said:weaver needs a 20% condi dmg and 20% cd increase on primordial stance, then i think it's ok

i really hope all classe get more severely nerfed than that something stronger than druid and chrono are now, but not much stronger

It would be great if druid saw love

[Khalisto.5780]

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@Khalisto.5780 said:weaver needs a 20% condi dmg and 20% cd increase on primordial stance, then i think it's ok

i really hope all classe get more severely nerfed than that something stronger than druid and chrono are now, but not much stronger

It would be great if druid saw love

and core ele