[POLL] Your Thoughts on Downstate - Page 2 — Guild Wars 2 Forums

[POLL] Your Thoughts on Downstate

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  • Clownmug.8357Clownmug.8357 Member ✭✭✭

    @kash.9213 said:

    @Clownmug.8357 said:
    Casual game mechanic for casual game mode.

    Everything about video games is casual. You were too eager to be edgy you forgot downstate is in pretty much every game mode.

    Hmm, only game mode where removing it is special event for some reason though. Someone should let pro smash players know that turning off items doesn't make it competitive because they're normally in every mode.

  • TheGrimm.5624TheGrimm.5624 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Clownmug.8357 said:

    @kash.9213 said:

    @Clownmug.8357 said:
    Casual game mechanic for casual game mode.

    Everything about video games is casual. You were too eager to be edgy you forgot downstate is in pretty much every game mode.

    Hmm, only game mode where removing it is special event for some reason though. Someone should let pro smash players know that turning off items doesn't make it competitive because they're normally in every mode.

    Downstate could probably use adjustment in sPvP as well. In PvE, it's fine since you want people to work together. In WvW it just favors numbers. But what does that change look like to people? Forum quite often seems to paint people in just two groups, and it's more greyscale. Take rally in sPvP, shouldn't it also be just 1 to 1 rally, if any at all?

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  • u're just wrong saying it favours numbers in wvw... if we push 30 people with 15, and the tip of the spear puts dmg down and gets downed, and then the second wave of dps kills some enemies and lets 5 of us rally and this repeats two times, then only the fact that we could rally made it even possible to win in lower numbers. and we really often have this situation, we could close the whole server if this mindless change would be done.

    clouding would become nerfed extremely without downstate AND rally.
    downstate alone is of no further use since most downstate skills are uncredibly trashy and the healing isn't of much use for situations where you are in battle.

    heck even a 100%+ of the (4) skill of the downed line or the addition of the pvE (5) wouldn't be enough to make downed without rally even worth it.

    the only thing rally boosts is quality; those who cannot use it have to learn it, that's one of the few things metabattle and other "copy build" site won't teach players. :expressionless:

  • Sobx.1758Sobx.1758 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 14, 2020

    @kamikharzeeh.8016 said:
    u're just wrong saying it favours numbers in wvw... if we push 30 people with 15, and the tip of the spear puts dmg down and gets downed, and then the second wave of dps kills some enemies and lets 5 of us rally and this repeats two times, then only the fact that we could rally made it even possible to win in lower numbers. and we really often have this situation, we could close the whole server if this mindless change would be done.

    OH, OH! I have another great example! What if it's a 1 vs 32473 fight, but the those 32473 players afk, so then if that 1 player kills himself, he can press 4, get up and win the uneven fight! Downstate totally favored him, that's true!
    Or maybe make some sense in your "go to" examples and consider people with close fighting capabilities in which case downstate favors outnumbering side. He's not wrong, you are.

    the only thing rally boosts is quality; those who cannot use it have to learn it, that's one of the few things metabattle and other "copy build" site won't teach players. :expressionless:

    The only thing rally boosts is the ground you're falling on, by turning it into a soft pillow so you can kitten up and still get saved by your teammates. Maybe it's time to learn the game and throw the training wheels away. Leave the downstate in pve and that's it.

  • TheGrimm.5624TheGrimm.5624 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 14, 2020

    @kamikharzeeh.8016 said:
    u're just wrong saying it favours numbers in wvw... if we push 30 people with 15, and the tip of the spear puts dmg down and gets downed, and then the second wave of dps kills some enemies and lets 5 of us rally and this repeats two times,

    Can a smaller group defeat a larger one yes. But today if that smaller group leaves just one player from the otherside alive after the fight, the larger side can rez back to full strength and the side that was defeated has to travel all the back to the fight, which might mean its further strung out and even weaker where as the larger side is already amassed. So yes, more than likely size matters in today's state of downstate, rally and defeated.

    Plus when balancing you have to balance around all the players are at the same skill, gear and builds because quite simply there are too many factors if you don't. Which isn't a bad thing, variety is what makes WvW fresh. But today there is no price to pay for pyrrhic victory and to me, there should be.

    clouding would become nerfed extremely without downstate AND rally.

    I would disagree from my own experiences here, during no downstate weeks I have seen havocs cloud and drop groups double their size where they don't always during normal weeks, that's another factor in my statement it favors numbers. By your mileage may vary.

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    1. Keep "Downstate", add a use-cooldown
    2. Remove literally everything else.

    "Downstate" should be a mostly passive state, maybe slow crawling but nothing else.. Absolutely no skills or heals and it should be completely reliant on an ally manually bringing you back up either through skill or F interaction, and absolutely no Rallies based off downed opponents/npcs.

    "Downstate" no longer acts like an "if/then mechanic" and should be treated more like a buff with diminishing returns. If you enter a big battle and get downed, you can be pulled back up, but if you die AGAIN within a specific time frame you no longer return to downstate and just instantly become killed.

    You can keep "Downstate" the current way it is for PvE, but it needs to be drastically simplified for WvW play.

  • @TheGrimm.5624 said:

    @XenesisII.1540 said:
    With the crazy amount of damage that can happen in wvw, downstate and rally are needed, but they could be tweaked.

    I want downstate to stay just so finishers are still a thing, even though mount stomps have basically killed that off, but I tend to get a little bit more joy finishing someone with a finisher than the stomp, even though most of my finishers tend to be stolen by drive by stomps these days... In any case I also think downstate should be generalized for all classes, same health and skills, but at the end of the day makes no difference since mount stomps instant kills dominates the way to finish anyways. They really should just auto pop your finisher on a stomp at this point.

    Rally one to one I think is fine, the crazy ten can rally off one was not, and fortunately that hasn't been a thing for years now. I do think maybe res speed of downstate should be less multiplicative per person, and perhaps even put a condition of either weakness or cripple on the rallied person for a couple seconds, maybe even less health on them after they get back up.

    Due to finishers alone I don't think they would completely drop downstate personally. And agree spiking adds in an extra element to the fight that does stand out in GW2 combat. That said I could see them changing downstate, downed, and defeated up some. Balance patch itself might address some of that.

    Just have the person who landed the last hit/condi stack get their finisher to auto proc.

  • @ sobx
    so you let copypaste players fight against each other? that's called an impossible scenario, but nothing else. once people realize the fights are on similar skill levels, they won't obviously risk an open battle, because that would barely make sense or be possible to turn - and downstate or not plays no role at all in that case. that'd be just flexing who bursts faster... clap clap. and more bursts would even more clearly win there, unless you somehow have unlimited cooldowns, which is rather unlikely.

    u have a pretty salty taste in your wording btw... some classes and stats are built to use this rally abilities, bulk - boons (and you all hate them yet) and healing would have to be greatly increased, or it would be just a dps shitfest and healing classes would become useless. you cannot attack any keep, bc they just would need a bunch of suicidal glasscannons to pick the attackers down one by one. this kind of bold talk often comes from exactly those who rage the loudest after getting clapped.

    anet is still doing a better job at balancing its game than some of the players would.

    @ grimm
    sadly missed those, so i cannot talk about it in fieldtesting. the meta varied heavily during the years tho. initially there was way less dps, at some point condi was the main thing (which at least was cleansable by the scrappers)

    the situation u described works if thats a thief or mesmer, any other cannot get away in time and be invisible long enough normally. i gotta say that i never saw anything alike, usually people port back to spawn rather quick to rejoin the fight.
    between full reviving everybody and just porting and sattling the warkitty to ride back, usually the second option is more appealing.

  • Sobx.1758Sobx.1758 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 14, 2020

    @kamikharzeeh.8016 said:
    @ sobx
    so you let copypaste players fight against each other?

    No? Try understanding the words you read.

    once people realize the fights are on similar skill levels, they won't obviously risk an open battle

    That's just false, if you're actually good, close fights are way more fun than steamrolling noobs who can't understand what's happening. Behavior you describe is typical for new players. In pretty much any game actually.

    u have a pretty salty taste in your wording btw...

    ...no, but keep throwing out empty claims like this one.

    this kind of bold talk often comes from exactly those who rage the loudest after getting clapped.

    Ah yes. The person disliking downstate is obviously the one that needs it the most after "getting clapped" -impeccable logic! But at this point I'm not even surprised by how disjointed your conclusions are, you just keep delivering.

    Downstate is awful and favors the wrong side of the fight.

  • Svarty.8019Svarty.8019 Member ✭✭✭✭

    If you consider that most vocal people on this forum seem to be gankers/roamers/1v1/small scale people - I think that's fair to say - I think Downed State is performing very well in the Poll. The forum people are totally unrepresentative of the players. That's my point.

    Thief OP? Better nerf Scourge ... again.
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  • Aeolus.3615Aeolus.3615 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @TheGrimm.5624 said:

    @Clownmug.8357 said:

    @kash.9213 said:

    @Clownmug.8357 said:
    Casual game mechanic for casual game mode.

    Everything about video games is casual. You were too eager to be edgy you forgot downstate is in pretty much every game mode.

    Hmm, only game mode where removing it is special event for some reason though. Someone should let pro smash players know that turning off items doesn't make it competitive because they're normally in every mode.

    Downstate could probably use adjustment in sPvP as well. In PvE, it's fine since you want people to work together. In WvW it just favors numbers. But what does that change look like to people? Forum quite often seems to paint people in just two groups, and it's more greyscale. Take rally in sPvP, shouldn't it also be just 1 to 1 rally, if any at all?

    Would be fun if mobs try finish players impossibiliting hard Rez.

  • TheGrimm.5624TheGrimm.5624 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Aeolus.3615 said:

    Would be fun if mobs try finish players impossibiliting hard Rez.

    That would be funny.

    Envy the Madman his musing when Death comes to make fools of us all.
    De Mortuis Nil Nisi Bonum.
    TheGrimm PoTBS/GW1/WAR/Rift/GW2/MWO/ESO/WoT/WoW/D2/HoTS/Civ6/CU/AoC

  • GDchiaScrub.3241GDchiaScrub.3241 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 15, 2020

    @ArchonWing.9480 said:
    Downstate is fine, and there are too many skills and abilities related to it.

    Rallying is kinda dumb though. If you both fight in a third party's tower, you can actually rally off a killed tower lord even if the other side kills it.

    Or veteran npcs. Unless they fixed that.

    D:

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  • TheGrimm.5624TheGrimm.5624 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 15, 2020

    Next week may need to drop a couple of subsets of this one off. So far it's about a third keep, a third remove and a third alter in some way, which is why I included so many options to check if there was a spread.

    @Svarty.8019 said:
    If you consider that most vocal people on this forum seem to be gankers/roamers/1v1/small scale people - I think that's fair to say - I think Downed State is performing very well in the Poll. The forum people are totally unrepresentative of the players. That's my point.

    Forums are directional at best, but we can also hope that sometimes these create a conversation that can expand from there, but your points fair. If anything it leads to other altered rules weeks so we could see how it would impact gameplay directly versus theory-craft. That said I would hope they also forewarn people that it was going to occur so that we less have in game player shock.

    Edit: less in game shock lol

    Envy the Madman his musing when Death comes to make fools of us all.
    De Mortuis Nil Nisi Bonum.
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  • Remove downstate, and then you’ll really know the true meaning of “squirreling.”

  • TheGrimm.5624TheGrimm.5624 Member ✭✭✭✭

    This was a very small sampling but it does show a spread of potential changes. Will break it out to smaller subsets since 29% were thinking no changes and 71% at least some.

    Envy the Madman his musing when Death comes to make fools of us all.
    De Mortuis Nil Nisi Bonum.
    TheGrimm PoTBS/GW1/WAR/Rift/GW2/MWO/ESO/WoT/WoW/D2/HoTS/Civ6/CU/AoC