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Mesmer builds?

SoulGuardian.6203SoulGuardian.6203 Member ✭✭✭✭
edited January 20, 2020 in Mesmer

I don't often play mesmer, to be honest.
Actually, I haven't played in quite a while, except for speed farming in the last week or so.

I tried a few fights today to see how it stands, and I found it a bit weak.

So I checked my gear.

The only thing I had at level 78 was a torch that I wasn't even using.

Have they been heavily nerfed?

To be honest, I'm not a fan of clones.
I love GW1 mesmers.

They just feel clunky, and overall useless.

I would like at least one spec that would completely remove the annoying clones that don't fool anyone, as players know which one is you, and AI always pursues you, so they know too... and focus on high damage.
Just the thought of clones, alone, makes me not want to play it, but atleast something that would cause more damage, rather than spending a lot longer in a fight than it should, and not having to constantly dodge and run away while clone skills recharge.

Thanks in advance.

Comments

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭✭

    mesmer is alot of effort to get the same reward, unless you are rather good at it people will outperform you by mashing random buttons on other classes like warrior or dh.
    chrono lacks 100% burst on short encounters due to chronophantasma+danger time and nature of phantasms ( phantasms deal damage over 5s+ while most others classes deliver their damage faster)
    Lack of self might generation and slow, means that bad support + no slow hurts you more then most other DPS classes.
    When I was running raids I noticed that my dps was very hit or miss eveno tho i did my rotations properly.
    Turns out with bad supports I could have average of 7-10might while other dps classes had 15-20 with same support.
    The point is, if your support doesnt slow for you, YOU lose dps.
    If he doesnt get the rotation going right and slacks abit with might YOU get hurt more then others due to lack of self might generation.

    To the gear question, ascended gear, proper one is a big damage increase, also runes/sigils play a big part.
    exotic no sigil gs -> full sigil ascended gs would be propably around 20% dmg increase. when you add stats from all armour and potentially runes it will add up by ALOT.

  • SoulGuardian.6203SoulGuardian.6203 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 28, 2019

    Thank you.
    I thought about changing the entire gear, but not sure if to go for zerker, due to lack of might as you mentioned, or something like divinity.
    Seems that power isn't doing her much good, but could perhaps add condi dmg and duration instead.
    Something that generates conditions too?

    An alternative would be to create an unvoluntary elementalist by adding fire blast, or chill, or lighting bolt to weapons + critical hit chance.
    Maybe I'm going too wild here?

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @SoulGuardian.6203 said:
    Thank you.
    I thought about changing the entire gear, but not sure if to go for zerker, due to lack of might as you mentioned, or something like divinity.
    Seems that power isn't doing her much good, but could perhaps add condi dmg and duration instead.
    Something that generates conditions too?

    An alternative would be to create an unvoluntary elementalist by adding fire blast, or chill, or lighting bolt to weapons + critical hit chance.
    Maybe I'm going too wild here?

    Depends what you want.
    you take 1 or the other not both.
    berserker for power damage
    or viper/trailblazer gear for condition.
    For condi go mirage. For power chrono. For weapons 5% damage is usually the best for power, for condi 10% condi duration sigil.

  • otto.5684otto.5684 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Purely from open world PvE, condi mirage is great. Does great damage and builds-up extremely quickly. Great sustain as well. And staff+chaos is one of the strongest champion solo builds.

    GS chrono is extremely strong. Strong burst and high sustain.

    Sword power builds, not so much. Sure, chrono sword is the strongest in a raid setting, but it is not that effective in open world. I prefer core power sword, but sustain is weak.

    Overall, saying the mesmer is "weak" is not accurate at all. I personally never liked the chrono phantasm farm (even in its hay day). And chrono overall became very bad in most contexts. Mirage is great in most settings.

  • Mesmer can feel slow and clunky vs open world mobs because clones disappear when the mob dies. Part of the class is clone management, and making sure you get the most out of phantasms and shatter skills. Mesmer can be very strong in all open world content, its just a different playstyle to other classes. I would recommend trying condi mirage, its a very passive/laid back playstyle that can solo almost all open world content with ease. If you want to play power, there are some very strong power dps builds that work just as well. Check out the mesmer builds on the metabattle website.

  • Moradorin.6217Moradorin.6217 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 28, 2019

    First I would say agree with the previous posters general advice. It sounds like you are probably talking about core Mesmer which gets low base weapon damage. Condi or power can work depending what you are doing. Which ever you choose power or condi I would say for many pve encounters fast clone generation with rappid shatters will give you the best damage due to how short the encounters often are. What I mean is, I would focus on knowing how many clones a phantasm and other skills generate and try to let the phant. finish as much of its attack as you can while keeping in mind that if you have 3 clones + the phant(s) you will want to use a shatter to clear out your clones to make room for the clone the phant will generate. Keep in mind, phants take time so on trash they can be too slow to bother with. You can also use certain utility skills to poop out a few clones instantly. They have 30-45 sec cool-downs BUT some times tha'ts enough time for them to refresh before the next group of mobs, which can provide instant fuel for a shatter. Along with this you combine this with other clone generating skills or traits so that you can make 3 more clones to replace the ones you shatter. Also remember distance and pathing matters w clones and the speed of shatter damage too. Core is going to get allot of damage from shatters, but its clones dont do jack for damage without the shattering. The only reason mirage ever gets any damage out of clones is actually just the elite specs special ambush attacks which are weapon specific. So basically, as others have said, shatters and phants for damage.

    As for builds I would say you have some options. I personally kinda like Dueling, Chaos, illusions on core. You can have a decent amount of regeneration, protection, retaliation, might, etc good clone generation and some damage bonus and reduced shatter duration that way. If you are on a budget I would maybe consider buying a cheap set or two of exotic armor in both zerker and maybe carrion or rabid (cause they are cheap) and try them both to see what you prefer. If you look on the TP for the exo armor that drops off NPCs you can often buy a whole set for less than 5 gold maybe even half that.

  • SoulGuardian.6203SoulGuardian.6203 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 28, 2019

    I've equipped it with a different set of gear in slot 2, as I just noticed that was purely power and zero condi, concentration, and critical chance.
    I compromised on power a bit, but has a lot more precision, condi and CC now.
    Got Wanderer and rampager gear, with Divinity runes, because it was also previously taking a lot of damage.

    It seems a bit better in some occasions.
    But I think I'll go core, as previous comments state that chrono isn't that great for pve or overall, and I really don't like the mirage dodge replacement.

    Will have to take a thorough look through specs too.

    Thanks for advice guys.

  • AliamRationem.5172AliamRationem.5172 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I recommend condi mirage for open world. Here's a build link and quick video of a boss solo I just recorded that might give you an idea of how it plays:

    http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PiwAc+ZlRwQYSMMmJW0P6vOA-zRJYkRHfZkTKkZF49sUl0G-e

    As you can see, it is extremely tanky but still puts out fairly strong damage even under pressure. It has excellent CC, mobility, healing, boon generation, active and passive defenses as well as being capable of dealing damage to multiple targets from any range.

  • SoulGuardian.6203SoulGuardian.6203 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Interesting.
    Thanks for that.

  • Lighter.5631Lighter.5631 Member ✭✭✭✭

    mesmer is high skill floor and decently high skill ceiling, which means if u are bad, bad people will reckt you by smashing keyboard, if you are average/good, you often have more option then other average/good people.

  • viquing.8254viquing.8254 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 16, 2020

    @Lighter.5631 said:
    mesmer is high skill floor and decently high skill ceiling, which means if u are bad, bad people will reckt you by smashing keyboard, if you are average/good, you often have more option then other average/good people.

    Hmm on a pvp view it's more a low skill floor, mid skill ceilling currently in the sense that :
    At low level, opponent will get lose in illusions and even if you hit like a noddle you will have this advantage.
    At high level, you will face class with better damage on skills, more temporisation skills and more sustain. So even if you play the best you can, you will lose to other players playing their class at max efficiency. And of course illusion targeting isn' t and advantage as they will find the mesmer instantly.

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @viquing.8254 said:

    @Lighter.5631 said:
    mesmer is high skill floor and decently high skill ceiling, which means if u are bad, bad people will reckt you by smashing keyboard, if you are average/good, you often have more option then other average/good people.

    Hmm on a pvp view it's more a low skill floor, mid skill ceilling currently in the sense that :
    At low level, opponent will get lose in illusions and even if you hit like a noddle you will have this advantage.
    At high level, you will face class with better damage on skills, more temporisation skills and more sustain. So even if you play the best you can, you will lose to other players playing their class at max efficiency. And of course illusion targeting isn' t and advantage as they will find the mesmer instantly.

    • illusions generate resources for the oponents.
      trigger heal + cleanse for thiefs
      generate stab for holos
      life force for necro
      might and heals for warriors etc etc.
  • Noodle Ant.1605Noodle Ant.1605 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 16, 2020

    Mesmer currently has a number of different builds in order to maintain effectiveness throughout a variety of different PvE situations.

    Contrary to belief, the build that deletes open world trash mobs the fastest (and therefore possibly the easiest) is core mesmer, thanks to Mind Wrack actually having IP. The only ‘clunky bit’ would be its move speed, which is mostly counteracted by mounts anyway.

    IR Illu pChrono is potentially the only spec in the game that can personally maintain nearly perma uptime of all offensive boons (might, fury, quickness, alacrity) on itself, making it a fairly independent spec that even brings group utility when pugging 5 man content and yet still has an acceptable max dps (~27k).

    DT pChrono is used for obtaining the highest possible power dps (mostly only relevant in raids), although its flaws have already been pointed out earlier in this discussion (reliance on slow uptime).

    Mirage is obviously used in condi-favoured encounters, and has been shown to be durable and still perform well when played defensively.

    And then you have boon chrono and its variants, which have their own, fairly specific uses.

    At this point of time, mesmer’s performance is fairly dependent on the build you bring - bring the right one to the right encounter and you will do well, bring the wrong one to the same encounter and you will suffer.

    pChrono (main), cWeaver and pReaper. An asura who likes snowflakes.

  • Lighter.5631Lighter.5631 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @viquing.8254 said:

    @Lighter.5631 said:
    mesmer is high skill floor and decently high skill ceiling, which means if u are bad, bad people will reckt you by smashing keyboard, if you are average/good, you often have more option then other average/good people.

    Hmm on a pvp view it's more a low skill floor, mid skill ceilling currently in the sense that :
    At low level, opponent will get lose in illusions and even if you hit like a noddle you will have this advantage.
    At high level, you will face class with better damage on skills, more temporisation skills and more sustain. So even if you play the best you can, you will lose to other players playing their class at max efficiency. And of course illusion targeting isn' t and advantage as they will find the mesmer instantly.

    ......your "high level" is actually the low level...

  • viquing.8254viquing.8254 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Lighter.5631 said:

    @viquing.8254 said:

    @Lighter.5631 said:
    mesmer is high skill floor and decently high skill ceiling, which means if u are bad, bad people will reckt you by smashing keyboard, if you are average/good, you often have more option then other average/good people.

    Hmm on a pvp view it's more a low skill floor, mid skill ceilling currently in the sense that :
    At low level, opponent will get lose in illusions and even if you hit like a noddle you will have this advantage.
    At high level, you will face class with better damage on skills, more temporisation skills and more sustain. So even if you play the best you can, you will lose to other players playing their class at max efficiency. And of course illusion targeting isn' t and advantage as they will find the mesmer instantly.

    ......your "high level" is actually the low level...

    1) My "high level" is probably way higher than your if you want a "who has the highest" to be an argument. Love to see your "high skill" in action.
    2) Where are the high level mesmer ?
    I count one aka misha in top 20 who will be there whatever he play and 2 more in top 100.
    Note that if they wasn't duoQing, even misha will not be at this position because currently mesmer has 0 carry potential contrary to the plethora of thief, war, rev you can see.
    3) Speaking about ratio, there is currently a high representation of thief, war, rev in top 100 which just coroborate what I said in my last post.

    Now if you want to continue dreaming about mesmer op, game carrier and so on, prove it !

  • Lighter.5631Lighter.5631 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @viquing.8254 said:

    @Lighter.5631 said:

    @viquing.8254 said:

    @Lighter.5631 said:
    mesmer is high skill floor and decently high skill ceiling, which means if u are bad, bad people will reckt you by smashing keyboard, if you are average/good, you often have more option then other average/good people.

    Hmm on a pvp view it's more a low skill floor, mid skill ceilling currently in the sense that :
    At low level, opponent will get lose in illusions and even if you hit like a noddle you will have this advantage.
    At high level, you will face class with better damage on skills, more temporisation skills and more sustain. So even if you play the best you can, you will lose to other players playing their class at max efficiency. And of course illusion targeting isn' t and advantage as they will find the mesmer instantly.

    ......your "high level" is actually the low level...

    1) My "high level" is probably way higher than your if you want a "who has the highest" to be an argument. Love to see your "high skill" in action.
    2) Where are the high level mesmer ?
    I count one aka misha in top 20 who will be there whatever he play and 2 more in top 100.
    Note that if they wasn't duoQing, even misha will not be at this position because currently mesmer has 0 carry potential contrary to the plethora of thief, war, rev you can see.
    3) Speaking about ratio, there is currently a high representation of thief, war, rev in top 100 which just coroborate what I said in my last post.

    Now if you want to continue dreaming about mesmer op, game carrier and so on, prove it !

    only thing that carries harder then mesmer is rev, unless u play condi monkey

  • viquing.8254viquing.8254 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Lighter.5631 said:

    @viquing.8254 said:

    @Lighter.5631 said:

    @viquing.8254 said:

    @Lighter.5631 said:
    mesmer is high skill floor and decently high skill ceiling, which means if u are bad, bad people will reckt you by smashing keyboard, if you are average/good, you often have more option then other average/good people.

    Hmm on a pvp view it's more a low skill floor, mid skill ceilling currently in the sense that :
    At low level, opponent will get lose in illusions and even if you hit like a noddle you will have this advantage.
    At high level, you will face class with better damage on skills, more temporisation skills and more sustain. So even if you play the best you can, you will lose to other players playing their class at max efficiency. And of course illusion targeting isn' t and advantage as they will find the mesmer instantly.

    ......your "high level" is actually the low level...

    1) My "high level" is probably way higher than your if you want a "who has the highest" to be an argument. Love to see your "high skill" in action.
    2) Where are the high level mesmer ?
    I count one aka misha in top 20 who will be there whatever he play and 2 more in top 100.
    Note that if they wasn't duoQing, even misha will not be at this position because currently mesmer has 0 carry potential contrary to the plethora of thief, war, rev you can see.
    3) Speaking about ratio, there is currently a high representation of thief, war, rev in top 100 which just coroborate what I said in my last post.

    Now if you want to continue dreaming about mesmer op, game carrier and so on, prove it !

    only thing that carries harder then mesmer is rev, unless u play condi monkey

    So, again where are they ?

  • AliamRationem.5172AliamRationem.5172 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @viquing.8254 said:

    @Lighter.5631 said:

    @viquing.8254 said:

    @Lighter.5631 said:

    @viquing.8254 said:

    @Lighter.5631 said:
    mesmer is high skill floor and decently high skill ceiling, which means if u are bad, bad people will reckt you by smashing keyboard, if you are average/good, you often have more option then other average/good people.

    Hmm on a pvp view it's more a low skill floor, mid skill ceilling currently in the sense that :
    At low level, opponent will get lose in illusions and even if you hit like a noddle you will have this advantage.
    At high level, you will face class with better damage on skills, more temporisation skills and more sustain. So even if you play the best you can, you will lose to other players playing their class at max efficiency. And of course illusion targeting isn' t and advantage as they will find the mesmer instantly.

    ......your "high level" is actually the low level...

    1) My "high level" is probably way higher than your if you want a "who has the highest" to be an argument. Love to see your "high skill" in action.
    2) Where are the high level mesmer ?
    I count one aka misha in top 20 who will be there whatever he play and 2 more in top 100.
    Note that if they wasn't duoQing, even misha will not be at this position because currently mesmer has 0 carry potential contrary to the plethora of thief, war, rev you can see.
    3) Speaking about ratio, there is currently a high representation of thief, war, rev in top 100 which just coroborate what I said in my last post.

    Now if you want to continue dreaming about mesmer op, game carrier and so on, prove it !

    only thing that carries harder then mesmer is rev, unless u play condi monkey

    So, again where are they ?

    Sorry. I've been complaining about mesmers for so long I failed to notice as they gradually became balanced due to repeated trimming and shifts in the meta.

  • viquing.8254viquing.8254 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @AliamRationem.5172 said:

    @viquing.8254 said:

    @Lighter.5631 said:

    @viquing.8254 said:

    @Lighter.5631 said:

    @viquing.8254 said:

    @Lighter.5631 said:
    mesmer is high skill floor and decently high skill ceiling, which means if u are bad, bad people will reckt you by smashing keyboard, if you are average/good, you often have more option then other average/good people.

    Hmm on a pvp view it's more a low skill floor, mid skill ceilling currently in the sense that :
    At low level, opponent will get lose in illusions and even if you hit like a noddle you will have this advantage.
    At high level, you will face class with better damage on skills, more temporisation skills and more sustain. So even if you play the best you can, you will lose to other players playing their class at max efficiency. And of course illusion targeting isn' t and advantage as they will find the mesmer instantly.

    ......your "high level" is actually the low level...

    1) My "high level" is probably way higher than your if you want a "who has the highest" to be an argument. Love to see your "high skill" in action.
    2) Where are the high level mesmer ?
    I count one aka misha in top 20 who will be there whatever he play and 2 more in top 100.
    Note that if they wasn't duoQing, even misha will not be at this position because currently mesmer has 0 carry potential contrary to the plethora of thief, war, rev you can see.
    3) Speaking about ratio, there is currently a high representation of thief, war, rev in top 100 which just coroborate what I said in my last post.

    Now if you want to continue dreaming about mesmer op, game carrier and so on, prove it !

    only thing that carries harder then mesmer is rev, unless u play condi monkey

    So, again where are they ?

    Sorry. I've been complaining about mesmers for so long I failed to notice as they gradually became balanced due to repeated trimming and shifts in the meta.

    Yeah balanced = back in time where there was 2 mesmers top 50, that's right. B)B)B)

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @AliamRationem.5172 said:

    @viquing.8254 said:

    @Lighter.5631 said:

    @viquing.8254 said:

    @Lighter.5631 said:

    @viquing.8254 said:

    @Lighter.5631 said:
    mesmer is high skill floor and decently high skill ceiling, which means if u are bad, bad people will reckt you by smashing keyboard, if you are average/good, you often have more option then other average/good people.

    Hmm on a pvp view it's more a low skill floor, mid skill ceilling currently in the sense that :
    At low level, opponent will get lose in illusions and even if you hit like a noddle you will have this advantage.
    At high level, you will face class with better damage on skills, more temporisation skills and more sustain. So even if you play the best you can, you will lose to other players playing their class at max efficiency. And of course illusion targeting isn' t and advantage as they will find the mesmer instantly.

    ......your "high level" is actually the low level...

    1) My "high level" is probably way higher than your if you want a "who has the highest" to be an argument. Love to see your "high skill" in action.
    2) Where are the high level mesmer ?
    I count one aka misha in top 20 who will be there whatever he play and 2 more in top 100.
    Note that if they wasn't duoQing, even misha will not be at this position because currently mesmer has 0 carry potential contrary to the plethora of thief, war, rev you can see.
    3) Speaking about ratio, there is currently a high representation of thief, war, rev in top 100 which just coroborate what I said in my last post.

    Now if you want to continue dreaming about mesmer op, game carrier and so on, prove it !

    only thing that carries harder then mesmer is rev, unless u play condi monkey

    So, again where are they ?

    Sorry. I've been complaining about mesmers for so long I failed to notice as they gradually became balanced due to repeated trimming and shifts in the meta.

    there is a difference between trimming and gutting.
    nerfing by 5-10% is trimming.
    nerfing by 50%+ is gutting.
    look at the patches, everything they touch is ripped by 50%.
    they even wanted to gut IoL that almost nobody uses by over 50%.
    they nerfed staff ambush so hard that its dps loss to use it other then point blank range, downright pathetic.

  • AliamRationem.5172AliamRationem.5172 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I think you guys misunderstand me. I'm poking fun at the guy who thinks mesmers are dominant in PvP. Complaining about mesmers is the default state, even while they've been nerfed into the ground and barely have any representation at the high end.

    Also, I agree on the staff changes. Completely unnecessary. Previously, staff dealt excellent damage for a defensive weapon...provided your target stood perfectly still! It was trash tier if they didn't. Now? It's trash tier all around! Staff against a moving target is probably the lowest damage any weapon has ever dealt in GW2! I feel pretty certain that whoever made this change simply looked at the numbers on paper and said, "Hmm, this hits kind of hard for a defensive weapon..."

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @AliamRationem.5172 said:
    I think you guys misunderstand me. I'm poking fun at the guy who thinks mesmers are dominant in PvP. Complaining about mesmers is the default state, even while they've been nerfed into the ground and barely have any representation at the high end.

    Also, I agree on the staff changes. Completely unnecessary. Previously, staff dealt excellent damage for a defensive weapon...provided your target stood perfectly still! It was trash tier if they didn't. Now? It's trash tier all around! Staff against a moving target is probably the lowest damage any weapon has ever dealt in GW2! I feel pretty certain that whoever made this change simply looked at the numbers on paper and said, "Hmm, this hits kind of hard for a defensive weapon..."

    its so kitten that at full open field p/w thief can facetank you and 3 clones Indefinitely.
    YOU have to keep dodging whips and steals, what you do against him doesnt matter.
    Tried to move to axe, but axe bugs, the way clones spawn. melee rage and no protection kitten you up big time.
    Even supposed easy win ( warrior ) becomes almost 50/50 becouse you have to constantly dodge everything for over 1min while all he has to do is land 3 hits and its gg.
    At this point I play mesmer just to tilt people.