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A challenge: no Firebrands zerg!


Syrus.2174

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At equal numbers and skill, not going to happen.

People love to mention all the secondary supports without realizing 1 thing, while you are stacking those, the meta setup has one in each firebrand group too. Those 2 zergs clash and the side which runs out of stab first or the side with less character control loses. It's that simple.

Aoe Resistance fields, aoe stability en mass, aoe aegis, aoe protection, MIs, reflects, you name it and the Firebrand brings it to the table.

Yes, they are outclassed in cleansing (by a lot actually) and in healing output, but that's not their main role anyway. Firebrand is the only class which can effectively preemptively prevent loss of character control, and that is what gives them the edge and makes them the backbone of any zerg.

Simply put, the Firebrand buys the squad enough time to act, the remaining classes make use of that time and shine. If you can't act, you've lost before the fight has even started.

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@Cyninja.2954 said:At equal numbers and skill, not going to happen.

People love to mention all the secondary supports without realizing 1 thing, while you are stacking those, the meta setup has one in each firebrand group too. Those 2 zergs clash and the side which runs out of stab first or the side with less character control loses. It's that simple.

Aoe Resistance fields, aoe stability en mass, aoe aegis, aoe protection, MIs, reflects, you name it and the Firebrand brings it to the table.

Yes, they are outclassed in cleansing (by a lot actually) and in healing output, but that's not their main role anyway. Firebrand is the only class which can effectively preemptively prevent loss of character control, and that is what gives them the edge and makes them the backbone of any zerg.

Simply put, the Firebrand buys the squad enough time to act, the remaining classes make use of that time and shine. If you can't act, you've lost before the fight has even started.

I mean, whilst this is true. The question is of no FB. Not no Guardian.

If you utilize a DPS guardian instead (likely a condi DH) for SYG and then double up on support with some minor stabs you can likely go pretty far even assuming equal skill.

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@God.2708 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:At equal numbers and skill, not going to happen.

People love to mention all the secondary supports without realizing 1 thing, while you are stacking those, the meta setup has one in each firebrand group too. Those 2 zergs clash and the side which runs out of stab first or the side with less character control loses. It's that simple.

Aoe Resistance fields, aoe stability en mass, aoe aegis, aoe protection, MIs, reflects, you name it and the Firebrand brings it to the table.

Yes, they are outclassed in cleansing (by a lot actually) and in healing output, but that's not their main role anyway. Firebrand is the only class which can effectively preemptively prevent loss of character control, and that is what gives them the edge and makes them the backbone of any zerg.

Simply put, the Firebrand buys the squad enough time to act, the remaining classes make use of that time and shine. If you can't act, you've lost before the fight has even started.

I mean, whilst this is true. The question is of no FB. Not no Guardian.

If you utilize a DPS guardian instead (likely a condi DH) for SYG and then double up on support with some minor stabs you can likely go pretty far even assuming equal skill.

You might make it 1nce if you have the surprise. Any competent commander will then kite and/or aggressively corrupt your initial stability and draw out the fight to use his cooldown and skill advantage.

I'm unsure how many people in this discussion actually play support Firebrand or multiclass in WvW on a high level, but every time I play that role, be it guild internal, as guild core for a public or just in a public, I kind of need most of my cooldowns for even fights. Unless one side one-pushes the other.

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@Cyninja.2954 said:

@God.2708 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:At equal numbers and skill, not going to happen.

People love to mention all the secondary supports without realizing 1 thing, while you are stacking those, the meta setup has one in each firebrand group too. Those 2 zergs clash and the side which runs out of stab first or the side with less character control loses. It's that simple.

Aoe Resistance fields, aoe stability en mass, aoe aegis, aoe protection, MIs, reflects, you name it and the Firebrand brings it to the table.

Yes, they are outclassed in cleansing (by a lot actually) and in healing output, but that's not their main role anyway. Firebrand is the only class which can effectively preemptively prevent loss of character control, and that is what gives them the edge and makes them the backbone of any zerg.

Simply put, the Firebrand buys the squad enough time to act, the remaining classes make use of that time and shine. If you can't act, you've lost before the fight has even started.

I mean, whilst this is true. The question is of no FB. Not no Guardian.

If you utilize a DPS guardian instead (likely a condi DH) for SYG and then double up on support with some minor stabs you can likely go pretty far even assuming equal skill.

You might make it 1nce if you have the surprise. Any competent commander will then kite and/or aggressively corrupt your initial stability and draw out the fight to use his cooldown and skill advantage.

I'm unsure how many people in this discussion actually play support Firebrand or multiclass in WvW on a high level, but every time I play that role, be it guild internal, as guild core for a public or just in a public, I kind of need most of my cooldowns for even fights. Unless one side one-pushes the other.

I mean yes, a group designed for a specific purpose will have to play to that purpose. But the topic creator laid out a fairly specific scenario (Organized group with no firebrands taking a t3 objective that was filled with unorganized somewhat similar numbers). In that scenario firebrands aren't nearly as important as consistent sustained healing, being able to DPS siege down, and lots of stunbreaks/incremental stab which could be fulfilled by tempests and jalis roads when SYG is down.

OFC in a proper open field fight the standard meta will be favored. That is why it is meta. That isn't to say you couldn't make no firebrands work in certain scenarios.

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@God.2708 said:

@God.2708 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:At equal numbers and skill, not going to happen.

People love to mention all the secondary supports without realizing 1 thing, while you are stacking those, the meta setup has one in each firebrand group too. Those 2 zergs clash and the side which runs out of stab first or the side with less character control loses. It's that simple.

Aoe Resistance fields, aoe stability en mass, aoe aegis, aoe protection, MIs, reflects, you name it and the Firebrand brings it to the table.

Yes, they are outclassed in cleansing (by a lot actually) and in healing output, but that's not their main role anyway. Firebrand is the only class which can effectively preemptively prevent loss of character control, and that is what gives them the edge and makes them the backbone of any zerg.

Simply put, the Firebrand buys the squad enough time to act, the remaining classes make use of that time and shine. If you can't act, you've lost before the fight has even started.

I mean, whilst this is true. The question is of no FB. Not no Guardian.

If you utilize a DPS guardian instead (likely a condi DH) for SYG and then double up on support with some minor stabs you can likely go pretty far even assuming equal skill.

You might make it 1nce if you have the surprise. Any competent commander will then kite and/or aggressively corrupt your initial stability and draw out the fight to use his cooldown and skill advantage.

I'm unsure how many people in this discussion actually play support Firebrand or multiclass in WvW on a high level, but every time I play that role, be it guild internal, as guild core for a public or just in a public, I kind of need most of my cooldowns for even fights. Unless one side one-pushes the other.

I mean yes, a group designed for a specific purpose will have to play to that purpose. But the topic creator laid out a fairly specific scenario (Organized group with no firebrands taking a t3 objective that was filled with unorganized somewhat similar numbers). In that scenario firebrands aren't nearly as important as consistent sustained healing, being able to DPS siege down, and lots of stunbreaks/incremental stab which could be fulfilled by tempests and jalis roads when SYG is down.

OFC in a proper open field fight the standard meta will be favored. That is why it is meta. That isn't to say you couldn't make no firebrands work in certain scenarios.

A few ventari / herald and jalis revs would do the trick, it’s amazingly for stationary fights.

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