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An experiment to increase raid participation


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Would it be better to have a system like ffxiv where if the game detect that there is a person that haven't done raid before, the people that did it before get extra reward (not too much where its can be exploited). And I don't mean detecting weekly clear, its detect if the account did that certain boss or not.

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This whole idea is strange to me. Your very first statement, 'I think one of the biggest issues with raids in this game is failing nets you nothing. ' is just factually not true. You get magnetite shards and gaeting crystals for failing. In fact, literally the only way to hit the weekly cap of gaeting crystals is to fail something at least once (perfect full clear is 145 gaeting).

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@thrag.9740 said:This whole idea is strange to me. Your very first statement, 'I think one of the biggest issues with raids in this game is failing nets you nothing. ' is just factually not true. You get magnetite shards and gaeting crystals for failing. In fact, literally the only way to hit the weekly cap of gaeting crystals is to fail something at least once (perfect full clear is 145 gaeting).

Yeah except most of those crystals come from actual victories, ie it's way more efficient to win and i'm sure there's more efficient ways of farming ascended gear than failing a boss 600 to 200 times depending on how good your group is when it fails + 20g you have to fork over.

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@Fueki.4753 said:a better experiment:implement multiple difficulties

This way a much easier version could be implemented and so casual participation would increase.This way, they could also implement an even harder version, for those top percentage players that think raids are too easy.

yup, and a sinple change for difficulty..would be less boss health, and weaker boss attacks. bam easy node, that stil includes mechanics. The problem is..if they don't offer Li or kp, it won't help with progression into normal mode.

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@Firebeard.1746 said:

@thrag.9740 said:This whole idea is strange to me. Your very first statement, 'I think one of the biggest issues with raids in this game is failing nets you nothing. ' is just factually not true. You get magnetite shards and gaeting crystals for failing. In fact, literally the only way to hit the weekly cap of gaeting crystals is to fail something at least once (perfect full clear is 145 gaeting).

Yeah except most of those crystals come from actual victories, ie it's way more efficient to win and i'm sure there's more efficient ways of farming ascended gear than failing a boss 600 to 200 times depending on how good your group is when it fails + 20g you have to fork over.

Yeah but the alternative you proposed:

@Firebeard.1746 said:This objective isn't based on the boss actually getting killed. It's based on dealing total damage to it that would have been fatal if given in one go (as a squad, all of the damage of any squad you participate in counts toward your objective).

Has the exact same design. It is much more efficient to just kill it in one go. Worse yet, the current system keeps rewarding you even when you fail, all the way to 150 mag shards/gaeting crystals, your proposal is a lot lower. In the current system I can spend an hour wiping at VG and keep getting shards. Even for a completely new group, your alternative caps out after 5-10 pulls, and it only gives 10 shards total. Your proposal gives less shards and maxes out its reward way faster (i.e. even less incentives to keep players progressing towards a kill).

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@Cristalyan.5728 said:

@"mindcircus.1506" said:

Or maybe the "problem" you have identified is caused by the game coddling it's players so hard with it's "Max loot for almost zero effort" mentality and
that
could change.Instead of rewarding people for failure, maybe the developers should take a look at why players in Guild Wars 2 have become so accustomed to receiving max rewards for under-performing.Go to all the popular meta events rewards, and scale Gold reward for the top 10% of those contributing and giving everyone else silver or bronze. Half the number of bonus chests, and no Greater Chests in the loot phase for Tarir if you dont get gold. Zero elegy mosiacs for legendary bounties unless you do more than 5kDPS. No Amalgamated Gemstones for people with Bronze. Bottom contribution on a strike?..zero rewards.... nothing.

If indeed your assumption is correct, this fix would be far healthier than an idea which would inevitably lead to "fail farming".

LOOOL !! What a hate! I'm so glad you have no decision rights in ANet. I'm worried that you may have these rights in the RL :#

So, in a cooperative mode, where some events cannot be completed solo, you suggest to reward only 10% of the players. The rest are noninportant according to your point of view.
Really
? They are the persons helping the 10% to have the rewards. And another thing: If the rewards will be like that, no matter what, no matter how much DPS a player will have, in this kind of situation you will
always
have a percentage of players excluded from rewards. Even if the difference between max DPS and min DPS in that squad is 100 points.

Applying your suggestions, will turn this
... experiment to increase raid participation
into an
efficient way to empty GW2 from players
.

As I wrote above - I'm glad you cannot decide something regarding GW2.

good point. Sometimes I do Jormag with new players. I go on pure support tempest, tell them what to do and let them have fun while keeping them alive. They enjoy the experience, they can concentrate on their skills and don't need to worry about going down. According to dps, I am useless. But since I make sure that several people are actually on their feet I DO contribute.

DPS checks are useless, unless they check if that person doing the damage was buffed, healed, cleansed by a third person and rewards the supporter as well. And then we REALLY open a can of worms.

The current system is fine. It works. Raids should have never come to this game, it is that simple. Their stupid 'watch 5 guids twenty times to learn the mechanics. Then memorize your perfect rotation from snowcrows' architecture just keeps people away (because honestly? You either wipe contantly, which is boring, or just play by muscle memory which is just as boring).

How to fix raids? Remove them, completely rework them and bring them back.

And make legendary raid armor available to everyone who has any kind of legendary armor.

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@"VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.3618" said:

@"Cristalyan.5728" said:

good point. Sometimes I do Jormag with new players. I go on pure support tempest, tell them what to do and let them have fun while keeping them alive. They enjoy the experience, they can concentrate on their skills and don't need to worry about going down. According to dps, I am useless. But since I make sure that several people are actually on their feet I DO contribute.

DPS checks are useless, unless they check if that person doing the damage was buffed, healed, cleansed by a third person and rewards the supporter as well. And then we REALLY open a can of worms.

The current system is fine. It works. Raids should have never come to this game, it is that simple. Their stupid 'watch 5 guids twenty times to learn the mechanics. Then memorize your perfect rotation from snowcrows' architecture just keeps people away (because honestly? You either wipe contantly, which is boring, or just play by muscle memory which is just as boring).

How to fix raids? Remove them, completely rework them and bring them back.

And make legendary raid armor available to everyone who has any kind of legendary armor.

The open world system is fine. I agree. For you and a huge amount of the community.But on the other side you're totally wrong. Raids are fine as well because it has a "target audience" to which you do not belong apparently. It's the same with PvP and WvW. Different people, different tastes. There's no reason to remove raids other than that people are jealous due to exclusive rewards or content they aren't able to overcome.If you don't like them don't do them. All you have to do is not caring. Funnily enough you are speaking against them which means that there's kind of envy on your side otherwise you would stop paying attention to them.

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@"Vinceman.4572" said:The open world system is fine. I agree. For you and a huge amount of the community.But on the other side you're totally wrong. Raids are fine as well because it has a "target audience" to which you do not belong apparently. It's the same with PvP and WvW. Different people, different tastes. There's no reason to remove raids other than that people are jealous due to exclusive rewards or content they aren't able to overcome.If you don't like them don't do them. All you have to do is not caring. Funnily enough you are speaking against them which means that there's kind of envy on your side otherwise you would stop paying attention to them.I think that the main point of contention was always about raids being the only PvE way to obtain legendary armor (and i mean a legendary armor, not specifically an envoy set). If there was a path to legendary armor of comparable quality that followed the old PvE legendary gear creation model, most people would indeed not care about raids at all, and the amount of complains would have been much, much smaller.

...but of course Anet did want everyone (and not only people the content was truly designed for) to care, which is why we're in the current situation.

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@Astralporing.1957 said:

@"Vinceman.4572" said:The open world system is fine. I agree. For you and a huge amount of the community.But on the other side you're totally wrong. Raids are fine as well because it has a "target audience" to which you do not belong apparently. It's the same with PvP and WvW. Different people, different tastes. There's no reason to remove raids other than that people are jealous due to exclusive rewards or content they aren't able to overcome.If you don't like them don't do them. All you have to do is
not caring
. Funnily enough you are speaking against them which means that there's kind of envy on your side otherwise you would stop paying attention to them.I think that the main point of contention was always about raids being the only PvE way to obtain legendary armor (and i mean
a
legendary armor, not specifically an envoy set). If there was a path to legendary armor of comparable quality that followed the old PvE legendary gear creation model, most people would indeed
not
care about raids at all, and the amount of complains would have been much, much smaller.

...but of course Anet
did
want everyone (and not only people the content was truly designed for) to care, which is why we're in the current situation.

I agree to the point that they could have made the complaints a little bit more quiet with a parallel implementation of an open world PvE armor but I still think that the majority of complaints would still exist because lots of people just cannot accept that there are areas in such a varied game like an mmo that is not for them.

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@"Vinceman.4572" said:I agree to the point that they could have made the complaints a little bit more quiet with a parallel implementation of an open world PvE armor but I still think that the majority of complaints would still exist because lots of people just cannot accept that there are areas in such a varied game like an mmo that is not for them.

Nah. Complains about PvP modes were never this big, and only appeared if, by any chance, the paths of those modes intersected with paths of pve players (so, having to get a map completion/gift of battle for legendaries, or similar stuff). The only reason why in this case it was different is because Anet, instead of making it clear that it is a separate, sidecontent only for those interested in it, tried to mainstream it and show it as the endgame content for all of PvE. They made sure that everyone would be interested.

Raids were for a long time too much of an "in your face" stuff to ignore them - and yet they were designed only for a minority of players. Thus the complains.

TL/DR;If you make a lot of incentives for people from group A to do the content B, first make sure that this content is designed in such a way that will let them do it. If you lead players to the content, and then tell them it's not for them, it will not make them happy.

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Well, it was obvious that raids will be hard. They were even announced as the hardest challenge a group has to overcome so far and to reward the successful ones with the leggy armor. Not to forget that the armor was realeased so late that it hasn't been funny anymore. In addition the look is kind of awful for the majority of players which is a key point in a game in which fashion is one of the main arguments to get items.But I'm still 100% convinced that a huge amount of those who were disappointed about raids in the first place would have been disappointed as well with an open world PvE armor once they realized that they have 0% chance to beat raids without effort on their side.

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