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How to close the knowledge gap for new players?


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Across all modes what can we/anet do to close the knowledge gap for new players? As a primarily PvP/WvW player I know this is a problem and if you don't have a patient player to help you and show you the ropes it can be specially frustrating to get involved. It takes a certain level of determination and stubbornness to learn it on your own which not everyone has. Is there a way we can help motivate veteran players to help new players with this content? I know open world PvE is kind of hand holdy but when you jump up to end game with fractals/raids the leap can seam daunting. There are things like raid training guilds but that seems to be about it. There are a good handful of us who do enjoy helping others but are there enough? Idk, I hear people complain about "people being useless" but not suggesting ways to help them not be. I'm not saying this some pandemic level issue but it's enough for me to have noticed commonly.

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When the warclaw got introduced, and even a bit before I found a lot of help from coms that were on the map leading wvw squads in both borderlands as edge of the mists. So I guess the way to go would be the coms. Content creators could also explain how everything works but in my experience you learn it better if you can immediatly apply what you just learnt. Also since you can then ask questions on spot.

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This game needs a way better tutorial and explanations on how things work(combos, blast finishers, dodging, Breakbars omg please breakbars.) The minor mechanics are explained but the major ones for team play, and survival in the harder content are forgotten about.

Add to that, they -need- to slowly make the game harder, and i do mean slow, but to accomplish this a re balance would be needed across the board. Starting with the level 1-15 zones and going all the way up to Bjora marches(each LS season and expansion would increase the difficulty, this would carry over to story too), with Bjora being the new difficulty cap for open world PVE. All new zones after that would be on the same or a small increase in difficulty. You still wouldnt need another person to play through the game, if you know what are you doing that is, so the "solo everything" crowd can still do that if they are good.

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You can't. The only way you could close the gap in effectiveness between top and bottom players would be not through teaching players, but through completely changing the game mechanics.

Basically, the game is way too complex - complex enough that any attempt to educate a majority of the players will be ultimately futile. The only people that would learn enough would be the people willing to learn - and those people are already learning all they can anyway. You can't really make players learn more than they already have, so all you could possibly do is to make it so they'd need to learn less to accomplish the same result (basically, you'd need to simplify the game).

And that's not going to happen.

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Much of the game is packed with lessons, for example, the hated mini games and adventures are lessons in flying, dodging, using mounts, etc. Many mmo's players do not want lessons, they want to skip all that and get to the good stuff. They often do not catch on that learning these systems is the good stuff.

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Weren't we all 'new players' and learned? Well, learned as much as we are going to?Should 'new players' be fast-tracked now? Why isn't the suggestion that everyone that hasn't 'learned' be taught, rather than 'new players'?

Also, to me, Bjora seems a lot easier than some of HoT and PoF. If Bjora is the cap, then many areas would need to be toned down, and I'm not sure there is enough gap between Starter areas and Bjora to slowly increment difficulty through all the many maps of Core, Expansions and all the Living World Seasons maps.

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@"Dante.1763" said:This game needs a way better tutorial and explanations on how things work(combos, blast finishers, dodging, Breakbars omg please breakbars.) The minor mechanics are explained but the major ones for team play, and survival in the harder content are forgotten about.

Add to that, they -need- to slowly make the game harder, and i do mean slow, but to accomplish this a re balance would be needed across the board. Starting with the level 1-15 zones and going all the way up to Bjora marches(each LS season and expansion would increase the difficulty, this would carry over to story too), with Bjora being the new difficulty cap for open world PVE. All new zones after that would be on the same or a small increase in difficulty. You still wouldnt need another person to play through the game, if you know what are you doing that is, so the "solo everything" crowd can still do that if they are good.

It would not work becouse you will have new players that go core, maybe hot and then pof then newest living story the difficulty spike would be to hard for them.Hence why we got what we have now with easy peasy icebrood saga so far.

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The first thing I do for new players is introduce them to the /wiki command. Following that, I tell them about this forum for technical questions and about the various roleplay networks if that's their preference. The idea is to give them the tools to go it alone as well as the addresses for getting in touch with people who can help.

Even joining the game right now, you'd eventually wander into the same level of experience that vets have, given time. Some achievements and events are harder to complete now, and LFG is more required than ever, but the basic mechanics of the game can still be casually learned without any special systems put in place.

People aren't thrilled with the direction of the game right now, but the helpful parts of the community are still interested in helping.

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They could have a simulator that duplicates various attacks and mechanics that people could practice.

The other thing is to not reward leeching, so that players will have to actually do something. Currently you can do nothing and still get rewarded. As a result, it is up to veteran players to educate players that want to be learn and be useful but exclude those that do not.

For example, you might think you are being nice when you res someone fully dead 5 in. away from spawn or a waypoint, but in reality you're just making them lazy and they'll just lay fully dead during events. Therefore, you do not res fully dead players if a wp is nearby-- make them respawn and they'll get the hint. Some people may think this is toxic, but I think holding another entire map back because of laziness is even more so.

If someone tries to join a fractal with insufficient agony resist, then educate them on why, give them in resources on how to get it, or even help them do low level runs. Do not, however, try to carry them. There are those that just want to play dumb and leech-- kick these people.

Don't give new players gold. Show them how to make gold. Something something give fish vs teach fishing.

Don't confuse poorly performing players for new players or just casual players that need a nudge in the right directions. But only help those people that want help.

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IMO, there has to be some investment by the new player in learning the mechanics of the game and their class. Too often I have seen players who insta-level to 80 and then don't know how to play their character. The impatience to get to what some consider end-game material is greatly at fault.

My personal experience in WvW has been mostly negative with not being able to join with a coordinated group and then getting ganked as a roamer. This could be due to the times I'm online, so others mileage may vary. Still, it was enough to keep me from entering that content.

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@Astralporing.1957 said:You can't. The only way you could close the gap in effectiveness between top and bottom players would be not through teaching players, but through completely changing the game mechanics.

Basically, the game is way too complex - complex enough that any attempt to educate a majority of the players will be ultimately futile. The only people that would learn enough would be the people willing to learn - and those people are already learning all they can anyway. You can't really make players learn more than they already have, so all you could possibly do is to make it so they'd need to learn less to accomplish the same result (basically, you'd need to simplify the game).

And that's not going to happen.

This.

Before thinking about what can or can't be done, one must realize:For an individual to improve, they have to actively desire to do so.

At this point in time, there is vast amounts of resources both in-game, as well as outside the game which provide guidance for players who want to improve. Those resources see use by players who desire to achieve certain results, those who do not, make no use of them. The second group of players will also not make use of any in-game features, which are already present, even if those are shoved in their face. On the contrary, most take the path of least resistance and simply complain (and in part they are right, since much of the content has been brain dead easy for ages).

The only thing you can do is incentivize players to try content outside their comfort zone in the hope that they develop a desire to improve for those game types/modes. I believe that is what strikes are for. Unfortunately this will automatically result in some few players improving, but a vast majority hitting their personal skill cap (rather fast I might add). Best evidence: the outcries about difficulty in nearly any open world or story content, even though there is tons of guide material and tons of cheese ways to overcome said challenges with minimal effort (if so desired).

The simple fact is: the difference between players who actually understand this games mechanics and who engage in buildcrafting and understanding their class versus those who do not is simply to big and the later group has no desire to improve.

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From a wvw perspective the worst thing we do as a community is tell new players to follow a tag. This 'teaches' them not to learn, and to instead rely on others for their success. No one tagged up? Can't play, may as well log off . . .

Far better advice would be to tell ppl to roam their own bl until they get the hang of things and -- this next bit is crucial -- that dying is a natural and vital part of the game mode. Once players have learned the ropes running solo and that dying is nbd, then they could contribute more meaningfully to squad play, which should presume an understanding of basic wvw concepts . . .

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I'm terrible in WvW and I know that but then again I'm forced to do it from time to time to get Gifts of Battle. Because of this, I chose to be a Longbow Ranger and, obviously, I need to be in a group to succeed sometimes and it's painful to me hear on Discord servers extremely stressed commanders speaking super fast and once in a while sighing an "omg... this Ranger".

But, as I said, it's an aspect of the game I'm forced to do, so I'll abide, however, I believe the most basic way to help newcomers is teaching, in-game, about Defiance Bar and CC. A LOT of players have in mind CC only as "crowd control" which is not exactly what it means in GW2. A lot more don't even know what are their CC skills. Heck, we have an in-game tutorial to learn how to dodge which, even accidentally everyone already did. But nothing regarding CC.

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The major prerequisite for any kind of learning is the desire to learn, you cannot teach those that do not want to be taught.

That said and since you are asking how to close the gap, not eliminate it, good/proper tutorials could help. For example a way to teach new players breakbars has been asked for since they were added to the game. The UI needs to be more informative on that subject too, it's really puzzling when you need to open the wiki to find the information you need, instead of being available in the game.

The game already tries to teach you things as you need them, like the Mounts. The area around the skimmer mount is full of quicksand and completing the task itself is much faster/easier with one. The area around the springer is the same. Heck, you MUST use the raptor to finish the very first instance and there is a handy tutorial build-in to teach you how to move with the raptor. You must learn how to properly glide at various points in the Heart of Thorns story (even more if you want map completion)

The game isn't bad at teaching players new gimmicks that will be required in the story, or for map completion. But it's rather bad at teaching the basics, not much can be done about that though.

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The usual way it is done now is to put the tutorial in the story missions, but when they made the "New player experience" they kind of butchered it and made it worse.The time that it came out hand holding was not that popular in games you learned cause you had to learn it to be effective, but with time it turned into care bare place where it is made way too easy on places and at the same time there is no initial explanation how things work.

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For me, the leveling experience was educational enough. You learn all the basics. I think the combat in GW2 requires you to learn to use your skills effectively, since you have to evade damage and heal. More than most MMOs that I have seen. PvP is a different beast. Especially that GW2 does not have a lowbie PvP.

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I'm not quite sure if there's anything they can do really, if anything I'd just say that people should just strive more to help new players and to be patient with them.

Before I had my extended leave from the game I know people in general were rather hostile to most of what conflicted with the norm in wvw, so there was never really much of anything to help new players unless the player in question.

Now I'm not sure if anything has changed since I've been gone because really how in the world could I know, but if it's at all the same I'd say it's mainly just an issue of player mentality with the older crowd for that game mode at the very least.

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@Xenash.1245 said:I'm not quite sure if there's anything they can do really, if anything I'd just say that people should just strive more to help new players and to be patient with them.

Before I had my extended leave from the game I know people in general were rather hostile to most of what conflicted with the norm in wvw, so there was never really much of anything to help new players unless the player in question.

Now I'm not sure if anything has changed since I've been gone because really how in the world could I know, but if it's at all the same I'd say it's mainly just an issue of player mentality with the older crowd for that game mode at the very least.

There are also people who are hostile to slightest hint of a suggestion that what they are doing isn't correct.

On the other hand there are also too many people giving unwanted advice. Someone who is not in a group with you and simply walking from spawn to the bank is not an invitation for you to start critiquing their choice of utilities ...

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We do not have any real tutorials in the game. There is the content guide and a few minor explanations. But introducing new players into the game, helping them to get started and find their own path has to be done by the community. There are plenty of players, who are always willing to share their knowledge & experience. Players who tag up in newbie-zones to aid newbies in their first steps, although they have probably enough experience to lead squads in coordinated meta-events. I really respect those players. There are also guilds which dedicate themselves to help newbies and introduce them to the game. Plenty of veterans who work as mentors to individually advice uncertain newbies to reach their goals.

But we also have a couple of black sheep in the game. If a question is asked, they respond with "use the /wiki command." If new players seek guidance about classes/skills/weapons/builds, they instantly link www.metabattle.com. With the advice, that everything they need to know is on that page. No clue what that means they type in the link into their browser. They pick their class, sometimes even the correct game mode and start farming endgame-gear with a character far below 80 and the knowledge of a three week starter. Some of them quit already, due to the overwhelming flood of information. Some quit later, as they realize the acquisition of endgame-gear is just too complex to process that early in the game.

I do not want to flag those resources in a bad way. They are all useful and help understanding the complex world of GW2. But it can be rather overwhelming, especially in the early stage of a new player. It is often more helpful to explain things directly, although it is basic knowledge. It is often more helpful to give a direct advise from player to player, than reading some guides/builds on a page that suggests the meta. The meta is the final step in some cases, but should not be the first.

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