Death magic it doesn't just work

[LucianDK.8615]

@KrHome.1920 said:

@"LucianDK.8615" said:DM is pretty much only useful in comfortably soloing champions.Spite / BM / ReaperSignet of Vampirism (traited)BM healing traitsSoul Eater

if necessary: mainhand dagger as second weapon set for the dagger 2 healif necessary: signet of the locust (traited) as another healing sourceif the defense is still too low: some toughness gear

something like this:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PSwEECNsMCGG7glwKxRWyrZD-e

Better damage and sustain ratio than any DM build.

Tested it out, way more fragile than a minionmaster in open world solo pve.

[Aigleborgne.2981]

@LucianDK.8615 said:Tested it out, way more fragile than a minionmaster in open world solo pve.

Some players don't want to have minions. IMO, AI is totally broken vs minions. This is why they are imba in OW.I love my petless necro and I still survive better than most of my other characters.

Back to @KrHome.1920 build, I'm not convinced by BM sustain in solo (unless full well build).I think that DM toughness plus perma protection is a lot more valuable.I haven't tested it thoroughly yet.

[LucianDK.8615]

@Aigleborgne.2981 said:

@LucianDK.8615 said:Tested it out, way more fragile than a minionmaster in open world solo pve.

Some players don't want to have minions. IMO, AI is totally broken vs minions. This is why they are imba in OW.I love my petless necro and I still survive better than most of my other characters.

Back to @KrHome.1920 build, I'm not convinced by BM sustain in solo (unless full well build).I think that DM toughness plus perma protection is a lot more valuable.I haven't tested it thoroughly yet.

Yeah. A petless necro with Soul eater does just fine with a glass cannon build. Except against champions, which is where DM shines.A champion I ocassionally train myself on is the one at Lady Glaive's chapel in west side of straits of devastation, poi right there. It deals alot of damage as well have a nasty aoe field. Ive managed to beat it as DM with 1-2 downs.

[Aigleborgne.2981]

@LucianDK.8615 said:

@Aigleborgne.2981 said:

@LucianDK.8615 said:Tested it out, way more fragile than a minionmaster in open world solo pve.

Some players don't want to have minions. IMO, AI is totally broken vs minions. This is why they are imba in OW.I love my petless necro and I still survive better than most of my other characters.

Back to @KrHome.1920 build, I'm not convinced by BM sustain in solo (unless full well build).I think that DM toughness plus perma protection is a lot more valuable.I haven't tested it thoroughly yet.

Yeah. A petless necro with Soul eater does just fine with a glass cannon build. Except against champions, which is where DM shines.A champion I ocassionally train myself on is the one at Lady Glaive's chapel in west side of straits of devastation, poi right there. It deals alot of damage as well have a nasty aoe field. Ive managed to beat it as DM with 1-2 downs.

What build are you using?

[LucianDK.8615]

The standard minion master build, with decimate defenses swapped for Soul Eater. It gives a lot more sustain and generally enough to solo most champions with ease.My greatsword is assasins, 2x precision infusions and the increased crit chance glyph to make up for lack of decimate defenses. Exactly as the snowcrows raid build. So its easy to flip to the raid or fractals buildhttp://gw2skills.net/editor/?PSwEE6MssAGDriRxGxx6psVD-e

[Aigleborgne.2981]

@LucianDK.8615 said:The standard minion master build, with decimate defenses swapped for Soul Eater. It gives a lot more sustain and generally enough to solo most champions with ease.

I misunderstood your previous answer. I meant DM without minions, it work against champions. Although some tough ones might require some defensive stat as well.

[Dirame.8521]

@Dadnir.5038 said:This is the drawback of the death carapace mechanism. It can truly show it's strength in large scale fight but you'll struggle to make it work well in small scale fight (and especially in 1v1. The necromancer have never been good at dueling and the change to DM didn't change this in any way.

Even if you give it an overpowered potential, a flawed design is still a flawed design. In this case, it's the concept of the necromancer becoming gradually stronger as the fight goes on. ANet tried it again and again over the years of balance and it always ended up with relatively poor result where it matter and OP result where it's not needed.

With poison cloud you can get Deaths Carapace in seconds in a team fight or in a 1v1 when combined with a nice Immob from desthshroud. you can trick people into staying in it in a 1v1 as well because the animation for poison cloud isn't easily discernible.

Personally, I prefer Unholy Sanctuary

[KrHome.1920]

@Dirame.8521 said:

@Dadnir.5038 said:This is the drawback of the

death carapace

mechanism. It can truly show it's strength in large scale fight but you'll struggle to make it work well in small scale fight (and especially in 1v1. The necromancer have never been good at dueling and the change to DM didn't change this in any way.

Even if you give it an overpowered potential, a flawed design is still a flawed design. In this case, it's the concept of the necromancer becoming gradually stronger as the fight goes on. ANet tried it again and again over the years of balance and it always ended up with relatively poor result where it matter and OP result where it's not needed.

With poison cloud you can get Deaths Carapace in seconds in a team fight or in a 1v1 when combined with a nice Immob from desthshroud. you can trick people into staying in it in a 1v1 as well because the animation for poison cloud isn't easily discernible.

Personally, I prefer Unholy SanctuaryI don't want to be offensive, but this sounds like some bronze division trick.

[Dirame.8521]

@KrHome.1920 said:

@Dirame.8521 said:

@"Dadnir.5038" said:This is the drawback of the

death carapace

mechanism. It can truly show it's strength in large scale fight but you'll struggle to make it work well in small scale fight (and especially in 1v1. The necromancer have never been good at dueling and the change to DM didn't change this in any way.

Even if you give it an overpowered potential, a flawed design is still a flawed design. In this case, it's the concept of the necromancer becoming gradually stronger as the fight goes on. ANet tried it again and again over the years of balance and it always ended up with relatively poor result where it matter and OP result where it's not needed.

With poison cloud you can get Deaths Carapace in seconds in a team fight or in a 1v1 when combined with a nice Immob from desthshroud. you can trick people into staying in it in a 1v1 as well because the animation for poison cloud isn't easily discernible.

Personally, I prefer Unholy SanctuaryI don't want to be offensive, but this sounds like some bronze division trick.

People do stupid things when they think they can get you down quickly. Yes there are people in Plat who would not notice your poison cloud simply because it is very hard to see.

In any case I am not a foreigner to the comment often shot at me "you are probably fighting noobs". It's like you can't accept that someone else can do something that you haven't been able to? Are you the best player in the game or can you not accept advice?

[Axl.8924]

@KrHome.1920 said:

@Dirame.8521 said:

@Dadnir.5038 said:This is the drawback of the

death carapace

mechanism. It can truly show it's strength in large scale fight but you'll struggle to make it work well in small scale fight (and especially in 1v1. The necromancer have never been good at dueling and the change to DM didn't change this in any way.

Even if you give it an overpowered potential, a flawed design is still a flawed design. In this case, it's the concept of the necromancer becoming gradually stronger as the fight goes on. ANet tried it again and again over the years of balance and it always ended up with relatively poor result where it matter and OP result where it's not needed.

With poison cloud you can get Deaths Carapace in seconds in a team fight or in a 1v1 when combined with a nice Immob from desthshroud. you can trick people into staying in it in a 1v1 as well because the animation for poison cloud isn't easily discernible.

Personally, I prefer Unholy SanctuaryI don't want to be offensive, but this sounds like some bronze division trick.

That sound rather arrogant and presumptuous. You never know what strategy might work. Its probably a good idea to test things out to get a layout of what works best in a PVP setting with experimentations to see what helps, which is how the best have developed elaborate builds that newbies never thought of in creative ways. Obviously some strategies once tried will fail, but what harm can it do to try in unranked?

[Nimon.7840]

@Dirame.8521 said:

@KrHome.1920 said:

@Dirame.8521 said:

@"Dadnir.5038" said:This is the drawback of the

death carapace

mechanism. It can truly show it's strength in large scale fight but you'll struggle to make it work well in small scale fight (and especially in 1v1. The necromancer have never been good at dueling and the change to DM didn't change this in any way.

Even if you give it an overpowered potential, a flawed design is still a flawed design. In this case, it's the concept of the necromancer becoming gradually stronger as the fight goes on. ANet tried it again and again over the years of balance and it always ended up with relatively poor result where it matter and OP result where it's not needed.

With poison cloud you can get Deaths Carapace in seconds in a team fight or in a 1v1 when combined with a nice Immob from desthshroud. you can trick people into staying in it in a 1v1 as well because the animation for poison cloud isn't easily discernible.

Personally, I prefer Unholy SanctuaryI don't want to be offensive, but this sounds like some bronze division trick.

People do stupid things when they think they can get you down quickly. Yes there are people in Plat who would not notice your poison cloud simply because it is very hard to see.

In any case I am not a foreigner to the comment often shot at me "you are probably fighting noobs". It's like you can't accept that someone else can do something that you haven't been able to? Are you the best player in the game or can you not accept advice?

But there's also people, that are testing a lot.Like me.But from my tests:DeathMagicIsTrash

Yes either on reaper or on Condi scourge. Doesn't matter. Maybe thats different in spvp, but in wvw, where you are much more free to create a build, it's trash.

I created a build for zerging, that's rather tanky, but it's not using deathmagic. And it's also pretty good for roaming if you switch the utility skills.

And for scourge:You could run pure Condi Zerg build and use deathmagic. So you would run mid-mid-mid deathmagic. Which only works for Zerg but then:You don't have enough poison sources: maybe with doom sigil and something like krait rune. But do you really want to commit that much.

And for roaming Condi scourge:You don't have many poison sources as well.

• Rune of torment is just much better.
• shrouded removal is much better than the poison trait

Maybe the traitline gets better, when the big balance patch hits, but I'm assuming, that traits there will see nerfs as well. Maybe only maximum of 300-400 extra toughness instead of 600.

[Dirame.8521]

@Nimon.7840 said:

@Dirame.8521 said:

@KrHome.1920 said:

@Dirame.8521 said:

@"Dadnir.5038" said:This is the drawback of the

death carapace

mechanism. It can truly show it's strength in large scale fight but you'll struggle to make it work well in small scale fight (and especially in 1v1. The necromancer have never been good at dueling and the change to DM didn't change this in any way.

Even if you give it an overpowered potential, a flawed design is still a flawed design. In this case, it's the concept of the necromancer becoming gradually stronger as the fight goes on. ANet tried it again and again over the years of balance and it always ended up with relatively poor result where it matter and OP result where it's not needed.

With poison cloud you can get Deaths Carapace in seconds in a team fight or in a 1v1 when combined with a nice Immob from desthshroud. you can trick people into staying in it in a 1v1 as well because the animation for poison cloud isn't easily discernible.

Personally, I prefer Unholy SanctuaryI don't want to be offensive, but this sounds like some bronze division trick.

People do stupid things when they think they can get you down quickly. Yes there are people in Plat who would not notice your poison cloud simply because it is very hard to see.

In any case I am not a foreigner to the comment often shot at me "you are probably fighting noobs". It's like you can't accept that someone else can do something that you haven't been able to? Are you the best player in the game or can you not accept advice?

But there's also people, that are testing a lot.Like me.But from my tests:DeathMagicIsTrash

Yes either on reaper or on Condi scourge. Doesn't matter. Maybe thats different in spvp, but in wvw, where you are much more free to create a build, it's trash.

I created a build for zerging, that's rather tanky, but it's not using deathmagic. And it's also pretty good for roaming if you switch the utility skills.

And for scourge:You could run pure Condi Zerg build and use deathmagic. So you would run mid-mid-mid deathmagic. Which only works for Zerg but then:You don't have enough poison sources: maybe with doom sigil and something like krait rune. But do you really want to commit that much.

And for roaming Condi scourge:You don't have many poison sources as well.

• Rune of torment is just much better.
• shrouded removal is much better than the poison trait

Maybe the traitline gets better, when the big balance patch hits, but I'm assuming, that traits there will see nerfs as well. Maybe only maximum of 300-400 extra toughness instead of 600.

If you are taking Corruptors fervour then you gain Carapace no matter which condition you throw out. And if you run that with purtrid defence and use poison cloud, you would get that max stacks in 3 ticks. To me it is also "meh" to run mid mid mid build but for those who want to, it is possible to get max stacks quickly and maintain it for a short amount of time.

EDIT:Went into PvP to test out the build and it was quite amazing. Tanked and 2v1ed a Guardian and Thief. Frankly they were a bit meh in the skill department but I couldn't fight them so easily a few matches ago. Unholy Sanc wins fights but it seems Weakness, Protection and Carapace armour just destroys power specs. I wish I could combine Unholy sanc with Corruptor's Fervor…. that would be the day hehehe.

[Yasai.3549]

I personally think DM was a flawed traitline from the very beginning.

It supposedly improves Minion play but instead of giving it more Minion trait options, it slaps alot of defensive traits on it : defensive traits a Necro of any sort does not need because Shroud is already their Defensive kit which also happens to have offense tied to it. (Something like a Power State)

In fact, if a player really wants to improve Necro durability out of Shroud, they run BM instead which actually makes yur Minions steal health for yu.

What they need to do is to stop messing with DM being a sort of "hee hee unkillable Necro overlord" and start making it about Minion customisation.

Like most if not all MM builds run literally the same trait choices in DM, and people who want sustain for Necro will run BM.

DM is never a choice pick for a defensive traitline.

It used to be somewhat good for Toughness stacking because it converted Toughness into Power.

Now it's just nowhere.

[Dirame.8521]

Watch the Carapace stacks in this fight. And I am not even running Corrupter's here. Just the Putrid defence trait + Poison Cloud.https://www.twitch.tv/videos/540234145

And from my tests outside of streaming, if I did run Corrupter's in that fight, I would have kept it up the entire fight.

[Anchoku.8142]

I wish Arenanet would

1. Take anything to do with Carapace off the minors and all but one of each tier of major. Make this trait selection support PvP better but allow players to not gain Carapace.

2. Use the minors to increase boon duration like what DM used to do.

3. Add group support of some kind to pay a squad back for the loss in dps associated with taking DM. Major traits not used for minions or PvP must be group support; i.e., sharable stability or something.