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WvW Participation needs Massive overhaul

Tuna Bandit.3786Tuna Bandit.3786 Member ✭✭✭
edited January 21, 2020 in WvW

This system discriminated roamers and small defending groups.

Let me explain what is wrong with it:
Today a large group attacked our Keep (succesfully). We were only with like 10 people defending, nothing we could do really, but we tried.
I died several times trying to contest and stall time to get more in, but it didn't work.
The enemy group was too tight to even kill a single person.

Now while that happened, my participation bleeded from full tier 6 to tier 3.
I am here to fully agrue this system. What I did was according to ArenaNet NOT **participating.
I was being punished **as if I was AFK.

Run a Yak in save place where it makes NO impact "Ow you are participating! Look at you go!!"
Drop a few supply in a wall that's 99% "Wow, you are working so hard! Here! you are save from Participation bleeding for 5 whole minutes!"

Fight hard to defend an objective but fail to get a kill in: "Get out of here, Slacker! Here is a punishment! You don't deserve Participation!"

Before we talk about Balance, let's talk about a FAIR system for Participation.

Untill then... I will report this time and time again as a BUG that BLOCKS PROGRESS because looking at it logically...
THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT THIS IS!

Edited Title to fix Spell issue
Mayor changed into Massive (since Major is also a militairy rank - sorry for the error)

Comments

  • Zexanima.7851Zexanima.7851 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 21, 2020

    So, will the mayor decide the rewards? How do we elect them?

    Depression and anxiety are the worst...

  • Dawdler.8521Dawdler.8521 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Zexanima.7851 said:
    So, will the major decide the rewards? How do we elect them?

    Majors are commissioned, not elected.

    Dont look a gift Asura in the mouth.
    No seriously, dont. Shark teeth.

  • Zexanima.7851Zexanima.7851 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Dawdler.8521 said:

    @Zexanima.7851 said:
    So, will the major decide the rewards? How do we elect them?

    Majors are commissioned, not elected.

    kitten, caught my misspelling making fun of the misspelling before I could correct it...

    Depression and anxiety are the worst...

  • Jayden Reese.9542Jayden Reese.9542 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Put 4+ sup into a gate or wall otw back to stop decay and you get a defense and sometimes that def resets participation to 10m. They can't reward fighting only cause 2 dudes on oppo teams could got hide and bot hitting each other never to die or kill but get rewards so I get it. Yes in some cases it's frustrating defending like you did and feel punished

  • Arzurag.7506Arzurag.7506 Member ✭✭✭

    The situation is quite problematic, because let´s assume the system is changed in a way that you only have to damage an enemy or prticipate in the defense of an objective.
    Upon participation you would get a 5 min timer until your participation decreases again. Now such a system would be fine but also be open for abuse. All one has to do is show up once or become afk near the objective.

    The whole reason why participation even depletes is to impede going afk and encourage participating in events around the map, ergo killing opposing players, taking keeps/camps and interrupt supply-lines through killing yaks. Now, activities like scouting, defending are not properly rewarded with participation because these activities can be abused quite easily and are nigh impossible to monitor , so that abuse wouldn´t happen.

    So far, the current system has a lot of room for improvement and we can only wait what anet comes up with in the near future with alliances and stuff.

    "I´m not big on sermons nor words, Broken bones teach better lessons and speak for themselves."

  • Svarty.8019Svarty.8019 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 21, 2020

    @Dawdler.8521 said:

    @Zexanima.7851 said:
    So, will the major decide the rewards? How do we elect them?

    Majors are commissioned, not elected.

    Ahhh but who commissions the Commissioner? Who washes the Watchmaker?

    Thief OP? Better nerf Scourge ... again.
    Hashtag BlameMcLain

  • Strider Pj.2193Strider Pj.2193 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Svarty.8019 said:

    @Dawdler.8521 said:

    @Zexanima.7851 said:
    So, will the major decide the rewards? How do we elect them?

    Majors are commissioned, not elected.

    Ahhh but who commissions the Commissioner? Who washes the Watchmaker?

    I would think the watch washer would wash the watchmaker..

    Thank You for the {MEME}

  • Strider Pj.2193Strider Pj.2193 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Swagger.1459 said:
    @Tuna Bandit.3786 Great idea to have an elected representative govern the mists!!!

    Hey @Strider Pj.2193, think we should ask @EremiteAngel.9765 to whip up a poll so we could start the voting process for wvw mayor? :)

    Dude, it’s all you and Diku.

    Thank You for the {MEME}

  • Swagger.1459Swagger.1459 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Strider Pj.2193 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:
    @Tuna Bandit.3786 Great idea to have an elected representative govern the mists!!!

    Hey @Strider Pj.2193, think we should ask @EremiteAngel.9765 to whip up a poll so we could start the voting process for wvw mayor? :)

    Dude, it’s all you and Diku.

    I was thinking that you should run for office too!

  • Pure a hit would indeed be open to exploit. I do see that problem. But this is massive participation.
    In this case, the wall they got in to, actually was guarded with a lot of red. Going there - specially on a glass deadeye - was instant death.

    The problem is, during such fight, you should not be thinking "Oww need put supply in wall to keep up participation"

    I also think it should not be a matter of 1 factor to see that one was participating in such a defense.
    Purely hitting would be abused by botters, yes. But during this fight I got measurable things in:

    • Hit enemy, multiple of them
    • got hit and killed multiple times
    • waypointed and ran back
    • was inside the ring trying to contest.

    Maybe a 2 factor system.
    Take the endless bot fight as example:
    What if the conditions were 2 fold:

    1. I hit the enemy (not that I GOT hit)
    2. I died during the fight.

    on 1: Actively hit an enemy, if I would say "took damage" and "died" that would reward AFKers that get killed.

    There must be some better solution, because this makes me want to port out, which feels like abandoning my team.

    The fact I dropped 3 tiers defending a keep in a quite intensive fight, is just wrong. You're punisheing the wrong people this way.

    off topic: I checked and saw the fault after googling it.
    Sorry for the mistake between Mayor and Major.
    English is not my first language. Not even 2nd lol

    I'll fix the title

  • Strider Pj.2193Strider Pj.2193 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @Strider Pj.2193 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:
    @Tuna Bandit.3786 Great idea to have an elected representative govern the mists!!!

    Hey @Strider Pj.2193, think we should ask @EremiteAngel.9765 to whip up a poll so we could start the voting process for wvw mayor? :)

    Dude, it’s all you and Diku.

    I was thinking that you should run for office too!

    Yeah.. but my office is in the basement.. you know.. with the boiler?

    I’ve got my mop ready!!

    Thank You for the {MEME}

  • LetoII.3782LetoII.3782 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Strider Pj.2193 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @Strider Pj.2193 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:
    @Tuna Bandit.3786 Great idea to have an elected representative govern the mists!!!

    Hey @Strider Pj.2193, think we should ask @EremiteAngel.9765 to whip up a poll so we could start the voting process for wvw mayor? :)

    Dude, it’s all you and Diku.

    I was thinking that you should run for office too!

    Yeah.. but my office is in the basement.. you know.. with the boiler?

    Sounds like you're ready for the systems team alright. How are you with living story lunch leftovers for pay?

    [HUNT] the predatory instinct

  • Strider Pj.2193Strider Pj.2193 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @LetoII.3782 said:

    @Strider Pj.2193 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @Strider Pj.2193 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:
    @Tuna Bandit.3786 Great idea to have an elected representative govern the mists!!!

    Hey @Strider Pj.2193, think we should ask @EremiteAngel.9765 to whip up a poll so we could start the voting process for wvw mayor? :)

    Dude, it’s all you and Diku.

    I was thinking that you should run for office too!

    Yeah.. but my office is in the basement.. you know.. with the boiler?

    Sounds like you're ready for the systems team alright. How are you with living story lunch leftovers for pay?

    I don’t even think we get THAT much..

    But I figure I need to bring a sleeping pad an a shelter half..

    Thank You for the {MEME}

  • Swagger.1459Swagger.1459 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 21, 2020

    @Strider Pj.2193 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @Strider Pj.2193 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:
    @Tuna Bandit.3786 Great idea to have an elected representative govern the mists!!!

    Hey @Strider Pj.2193, think we should ask @EremiteAngel.9765 to whip up a poll so we could start the voting process for wvw mayor? :)

    Dude, it’s all you and Diku.

    I was thinking that you should run for office too!

    Yeah.. but my office is in the basement.. you know.. with the boiler?

    I’ve got my mop ready!!

    That could be your slogan!

    Vote Strider PJ for WvW Mayor in 2020!

    “(S)he’s got the mop ready!”

  • HazyDaisy.4107HazyDaisy.4107 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I like the system, as a defender, it's less stressful when you throw 10 supply on a broken outer wall (after inner has fallen, but before the contest timer resets) and then just sit back and cheer for the hard working horde as they're capping your T1 Bay with 40 people at midnight on a Sunday in T4 against the 3 people that were silly enough to think it'd actually make it to T3.

  • XenesisII.1540XenesisII.1540 Member ✭✭✭✭

    You get participation for every 20 supply you use to repair, gives you 5 mins.
    You get participation for defend objective events, which has been rumored to be bugged sometimes and the more reliable way to get credit for it is by repairing stuff, gives you 10 mins.
    Player kills gives you 10 mins.
    Killing siege 5 mins.
    Not a whole lot else they can give you for defending.

    Most of the credit events are towards attacking for captures and defeat of npcs, because they want to reward people for being activate not afking. We already have people that abuse the system by going afk and repairing whenever they need to keep participation up. The biggest problem here is the defend event not properly giving credit, some people have stated they don't get credit for the event even if they've killed players in the area.

    All in all I think overall the system is fine as it is, but the defend event needs to be checked out.
    Don't know why people take participation so seriously, I barely ever check on mines, but then again I'm usually active in defending or attacking so....

    ^ Another derailing post - Anet
    Perma stealth is needed to outrun zergs - Thieves
    A skill overpowered? just nerf their dodge, balanced. - Anet
    There's no power creep you just don't recognize more people hitting you - Flat Earther

  • @XenesisII.1540
    Now that you mention it, the fight lasted a good 20 minutes, that "defend this place for your world" should've rolled over several times during that timespan.

    I am not constantly checking, after the fight I noticed the red, and hovered over and was quite suprised it dropped all the way back to level 3.

  • XenesisII.1540XenesisII.1540 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Not much more they can do with it to give credit other than checking if your character does certain amount of damage to players(which flags you to be in combat which should probably count but can be abused) instead of just kills to get credit, because again they want to make sure they're giving credit to active people, not someone sitting afk in the area being attacked, otherwise that would just promote people to sit afk in like smc all day, which they already do enough of with afk repairing for participation.

    Your situation fell into the outliner where your pugs couldn't kill anyone from a boon ball group, only other thing you could do is get a repair off during the defend event or try and kill their siege.

    ^ Another derailing post - Anet
    Perma stealth is needed to outrun zergs - Thieves
    A skill overpowered? just nerf their dodge, balanced. - Anet
    There's no power creep you just don't recognize more people hitting you - Flat Earther

  • Justine.6351Justine.6351 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Don't think it is really needed. So what if you lose a little participation.

    Anet buff me :-(
    Make me good at game!

  • Zephyra.4709Zephyra.4709 Member ✭✭✭

    Constructive feedback... :trollface:

    I would like to see active defense reward participation that ties into your average gameplay scenario. Currently, a lot of players simply dump supply into a wall and call it a day. Even if you know you're going to lose said objective to an obviously larger force there's no doubt in worthiness for your dedicated effort against the opposition that should reward participation.

    Examples include (while being in the vicinity of objective while its under attack):

    • Shield gen blocking enemy siege
    • Blocking/absorbing enemy disablers
    • Disabling enemy siege
    • Successful activation of Target Painter, Stealth Trap, Supply Trap
    • Reviving NPCs
    • Knocking siege users off siege (with or without use of siege)
    • Ring contesting

    Hell, imagine if they brought back bannering lords... would be kinda funny ngl.


    Suggested change regarding trebuchet skill Healing Oasis:

    • Healing oasis now massively heals NPCs/objective lords. Include larger radius, pulse heal if applicable would need to be brought in line so as not to be OP, decreased from 60 seconds to 30 seconds.

    Suggested addition regarding Mortar siege weapon:

    • Add an extra skill identical function to Healing Oasis, or, allow Concussion Barrage to include massive heal where targeted.

    These changes would encourage enemy opposition to commit to siege clearing before heading to lords allowing some time for defender reinforcements etc while giving said siege skills a wider use for skillful gameplay + ability point sink. Let's be real here, no one ever uses Healing Oasis. Give that thing some love.

    Take these suggestions with a grain of salt, there's no doubt in my mind that all of the above could well indeed be abused by the larger force as many will fear... at the end of the day WvW will never be truly balanced.

    Thoughts, OP?

  • L A T I O N.8923L A T I O N.8923 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I mean the only thing they can do is add if you die you'd get the 10 mins reset of a fight on your participation.

    I agree with you that if i fight people and i die i should get participation of the fight.

    But to be fair: how would you actually like to see it changed, without having people to mayorly abuse the system

  • Dawdler.8521Dawdler.8521 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @L A T I O N.8923 said:
    I mean the only thing they can do is add if you die you'd get the 10 mins reset of a fight on your participation.

    I agree with you that if i fight people and i die i should get participation of the fight.

    But to be fair: how would you actually like to see it changed, without having people to mayorly abuse the system

    The question is should you gain participation?

    I mean a fairly simple solution to this otherwise that would require coordinated effort across servers to exploit would be to halt participation drop for a short while when you have done damage to an enemy player.

    That way players fighting are still technically participating in WvW, unlike how it is now.

    Dont look a gift Asura in the mouth.
    No seriously, dont. Shark teeth.

  • L A T I O N.8923L A T I O N.8923 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Dawdler.8521 said:

    @L A T I O N.8923 said:
    I mean the only thing they can do is add if you die you'd get the 10 mins reset of a fight on your participation.

    I agree with you that if i fight people and i die i should get participation of the fight.

    But to be fair: how would you actually like to see it changed, without having people to mayorly abuse the system

    The question is should you gain participation?

    I mean a fairly simple solution to this otherwise that would require coordinated effort across servers to exploit would be to halt participation drop for a short while when you have done damage to an enemy player.

    That way players fighting are still technically participating in WvW, unlike how it is now.

    Technicly 2 Guardians in minstrel gear autoattacking eachother with a mace would grant Them Infinite participation then?

  • Dawdler.8521Dawdler.8521 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 22, 2020

    @L A T I O N.8923 said:

    @Dawdler.8521 said:

    @L A T I O N.8923 said:
    I mean the only thing they can do is add if you die you'd get the 10 mins reset of a fight on your participation.

    I agree with you that if i fight people and i die i should get participation of the fight.

    But to be fair: how would you actually like to see it changed, without having people to mayorly abuse the system

    The question is should you gain participation?

    I mean a fairly simple solution to this otherwise that would require coordinated effort across servers to exploit would be to halt participation drop for a short while when you have done damage to an enemy player.

    That way players fighting are still technically participating in WvW, unlike how it is now.

    Technicly 2 Guardians in minstrel gear autoattacking eachother with a mace would grant Them Infinite participation then?

    I dont know about you but I consider two guardians being completely useless a good thing.

    Simple to prevent that type of exploit though, just time out after a certain amount of time in combat. Like, you get... 2 minutes of "halt participation drop" after damaging another player, but it wont be refreshed until after you've been out of combat. Now you'd have to do some fancy botting.

    Or if you want to be simpler, you could also say that dying to another player counts as participating in WvW. It's a strange concept, I know. Even if that's botted as well, well the bot is participating.

    Dont look a gift Asura in the mouth.
    No seriously, dont. Shark teeth.

  • primatos.5413primatos.5413 Member ✭✭✭

    Repairing walls push participation. Defending not..makes sense. At least to Anet hmm

  • Lord of Rings.5371Lord of Rings.5371 Member ✭✭
    edited January 22, 2020

    @Tuna Bandit.3786 said:
    This system discriminated roamers and small defending groups.

    I am sorry to disagree with you.

    The reward system is well intended to create a fair experience for all and you are not understanding it.

    1. Contesting and stalling slows progress of the attacking side and making the game less rewarding for them and your small group defenders of 10 could easily group together and go offense to capture some undefined objects.
    2. As you mentioned, dropping supplies and escorting for roamers are rewarded, roaming is not punished. If a roamer tried to stall a group of 30 attackers of another server from capturing, the roamer is creating a less rewarding experience for maybe 25 of those players assuming the other 5 tagged the roamer and got a bag or something.
    3. The message is clear. Stalling offense makes the game less rewarding as a result defenders are equally less rewarded to create a fair system.
    4. This is very fair and not a bug.
    5. Players could say this makes the game more like a PVE game, rewarding contactless playing style and this only true if you are only interested in maximizing rewards. If you found it is fun to contest and stall, you can still do it but because your delays others from receiving their rewards, your rewards are stalled, just to be fair.
  • Baldrick.8967Baldrick.8967 Member ✭✭✭

    @Lord of Rings.5371 said:

    @Tuna Bandit.3786 said:
    This system discriminated roamers and small defending groups.

    I am sorry to disagree with you.

    The reward system is well intended to create a fair experience for all and you are not understanding it.

    1. Contesting and stalling slows progress of the attacking side and making the game less rewarding for them and your small group defenders of 10 could easily group together and go offense to capture some undefined objects.
    2. As you mentioned, dropping supplies and escorting for roamers are rewarded, roaming is not punished. If a roamer tried to stall a group of 30 attackers of another server from capturing, the roamer is creating a less rewarding experience for maybe 25 of those players assuming the other 5 tagged the roamer and got a bag or something.
    3. The message is clear. Stalling offense makes the game less rewarding as a result defenders are equally less rewarded to create a fair system.
    4. This is very fair and not a bug.
    5. Players could say this makes the game more like a PVE game, rewarding contactless playing style and this only true if you are only interested in maximizing rewards. If you found it is fun to contest and stall, you can still do it but because your delays others from receiving their rewards, your rewards are stalled, just to be fair.

    Or in other words, don't bother defending anything or getting in the way of the karma train and just go flip something else. .............................................................

  • Strider Pj.2193Strider Pj.2193 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Baldrick.8967 said:

    @Lord of Rings.5371 said:

    @Tuna Bandit.3786 said:
    This system discriminated roamers and small defending groups.

    I am sorry to disagree with you.

    The reward system is well intended to create a fair experience for all and you are not understanding it.

    1. Contesting and stalling slows progress of the attacking side and making the game less rewarding for them and your small group defenders of 10 could easily group together and go offense to capture some undefined objects.
    2. As you mentioned, dropping supplies and escorting for roamers are rewarded, roaming is not punished. If a roamer tried to stall a group of 30 attackers of another server from capturing, the roamer is creating a less rewarding experience for maybe 25 of those players assuming the other 5 tagged the roamer and got a bag or something.
    3. The message is clear. Stalling offense makes the game less rewarding as a result defenders are equally less rewarded to create a fair system.
    4. This is very fair and not a bug.
    5. Players could say this makes the game more like a PVE game, rewarding contactless playing style and this only true if you are only interested in maximizing rewards. If you found it is fun to contest and stall, you can still do it but because your delays others from receiving their rewards, your rewards are stalled, just to be fair.

    Or in other words, don't bother defending anything or getting in the way of the karma train and just go flip something else. .............................................................

    If all you want is rewards? Then yes.

    Thank You for the {MEME}

  • Voltekka.2375Voltekka.2375 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 22, 2020

    Step 1: cap sm (be blue or Green for better results)
    Step 2: have a buddy on Red eb keep treb outer sm
    Step 3: permarepair the wall.
    This works if you defend any structure, as well. Skip all combat, repair a wall, repeat

  • Bassdeff.1895Bassdeff.1895 Member ✭✭✭

    Be smarter about your activities and pick your fights. You can waste your time, participation, and whatever xp/loot buff you might have on a pointless unwinnable battle to save the keep for zero rewards or you can forget about the keep go to a different map and do something constructive that will keep your participation up and give you loot. The choice is yours. If you are outnumbered 5 to one and there isn't a hope in hell that you can save the keep, why stay? All you are doing is giving them one more kill.

  • jaif.3518jaif.3518 Member ✭✭✭

    @Lord of Rings.5371 said:
    3. The message is clear. Stalling offense makes the game less rewarding as a result defenders are equally less rewarded to create a fair system.

    This says far more about your tastes than the actual game the rest of us are playing.

    Stalling is a built-in necessity; with rare exceptions, nobody has the resources to adequately cover all maps, let alone the keeps and towers on those maps. To have a hope in defending, you must stall. All of us have had our successful defenses, our heroic stands that paid off...this stuff is the meat of the game.

    To the OP, I agree there are problems, but I think the other posters are correct that the problems are there to prevent cheating & collusion. The best thing to do is either a) ignore it and have fun, or b) game the system just a bit; use your supply at the right time to extend your participation.

    -Jeff

  • kratan.4619kratan.4619 Member ✭✭✭

    I have had my participation drop levels just trying to take a lightly defended keep. The enemy harasses but is never killed and I just wait while they run the keep out of supply repairing the door/wall all the while watching my participation drop. I only show up for a keep take if peeps are already on the inside door/wall.

  • Strider Pj.2193Strider Pj.2193 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Huh.. People are actually saying the participation system isn’t perfect..

    Imagine that.

    Thank You for the {MEME}

  • TinkTinkPOOF.9201TinkTinkPOOF.9201 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Voltekka.2375 said:
    Step 1: cap sm (be blue or Green for better results)
    Step 2: have a buddy on Red eb keep treb outer sm
    Step 3: permarepair the wall.
    This works if you defend any structure, as well. Skip all combat, repair a wall, repeat

    See this pretty often. Not saying they know each other at all, just people afk repairing more or less. Some do act like bots, however I have seen one person drain almost 1k supply from SM by repairing walls that were being actively trebbed. Trying to talk to them gets nothing in chat, PMing they are often set to offline mode, and they have a pause each time they go to the supply hut, and then pause again once going to a wall for a second or two and then starts repairing, or it will go to a close wall, pause (but wall is 100%), then move to the next and next until they get to a wall that can be repaired. I have no proof this is not a person, but yeah....Very suspicious.

    "When you power creep the game and make it so that spam gameplay is nearly as effective as deep knowledge and nuance, the quality of players will decrease." -Exedore

  • XenesisII.1540XenesisII.1540 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I dunno why people would come in here and tell others don't bother to defend, there have been a lot of great moments for me in defending objectives. Then we have vets that sit here and say we don't want eotm ktrain, but then we have vets that also come in here and say defense is too strong it takes too long to run over something, nerf siege and everything defenders have for an advantage, and now it's down to don't bother to defend? No one wants to put in some work for their fun anyone, let's just turn wvw into zombie ktrain mode already.

    ^ Another derailing post - Anet
    Perma stealth is needed to outrun zergs - Thieves
    A skill overpowered? just nerf their dodge, balanced. - Anet
    There's no power creep you just don't recognize more people hitting you - Flat Earther

  • Gop.8713Gop.8713 Member ✭✭✭✭

    They put a lot of work into balancing participation when it was introduced, and I think it has been in a good place ever since. There are occasions like the one described in the OP where players suffer decay when they arguably shouldn't, but they are rare and would be difficult to prevent without introducing significant exploits . . .

    To me, legitimate fights are rare enough these days that sacrificing a few ticks of max participation is a tradeoff I'll gleefully accept . . .

  • @kratan.4619 said:
    I have had my participation drop levels just trying to take a lightly defended keep. The enemy harasses but is never killed and I just wait while they run the keep out of supply repairing the door/wall all the while watching my participation drop.

    Veteran Guards provide 2 minutes of participation. They respawn every 3 minutes. There are also plenty of them. Heck, even Quartermasters provide participation.

  • TheGrimm.5624TheGrimm.5624 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Tuna Bandit.3786 said:
    This system discriminated roamers and small defending groups.

    Let me explain what is wrong with it:
    Today a large group attacked our Keep (succesfully). We were only with like 10 people defending, nothing we could do really, but we tried.
    I died several times trying to contest and stall time to get more in, but it didn't work.
    The enemy group was too tight to even kill a single person.

    Now while that happened, my participation bleeded from full tier 6 to tier 3.
    I am here to fully agrue this system. What I did was according to ArenaNet NOT **participating.
    I was being punished **as if I was AFK.

    Run a Yak in save place where it makes NO impact "Ow you are participating! Look at you go!!"
    Drop a few supply in a wall that's 99% "Wow, you are working so hard! Here! you are save from Participation bleeding for 5 whole minutes!"

    Fight hard to defend an objective but fail to get a kill in: "Get out of here, Slacker! Here is a punishment! You don't deserve Participation!"

    Before we talk about Balance, let's talk about a FAIR system for Participation.

    Untill then... I will report this time and time again as a BUG that BLOCKS PROGRESS because looking at it logically...
    THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT THIS IS!

    Edited Title to fix Spell issue
    Mayor changed into Massive (since Major is also a militairy rank - sorry for the error)

    What is considered participation needs to be reviewed and adjusted. I think overhauled here is a bit much but do agree you shouldn't lose participation while active in WvW.

    Envy the Madman his musing when Death comes to make fools of us all.
    De Mortuis Nil Nisi Bonum.
    TheGrimm PoTBS/GW1/WAR/Rift/GW2/MWO/ESO/WoT/WoW/D2/HoTS/Civ6/CU/AoC