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Buff core necro stability access


ZeftheWicked.3076

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wow that's hilarious.

That may be what you think but considering Anets current prerogative is to lower the global power level of the game instead , which includes CC, instead of creeping it more, just adding more stab, it's likely global CC changes.

If you think some of the ~900 odd changes won't target CC then I don't know what to say.

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wow that's hilarious.

Hilarious because the joke is on anyone that thinks they justify core necro getting more stability? I agree. I've been laughing for the last 8 years at people that think like that.

Well most of those changes aren't "give more stab to necro"

It's deal with classes with incredible disengage cc sustain and dmg to make them have an actual weakness.

I even said in the past that the best approach is changing for other classes to be brought down to our level. The stab increase is minute and will help greatly when ping-ponged, but the problems of mobile classes 1 shotting? We aren't asking for changes there, or at least I'm not. Mesmers thieves warrs Some can combine toxic 1 shot builds, and the people have spoken up about how they feel about 1 shot, even demanding nerfs.

Also, you keep forgetting despite these nerfs it might not necessarily fix the mess which is scourge, which also needs reform, and I imagine chronomancer too. Ever since the massive nerfs stuff was a mess for PVP and there has to be a way to balance them out to make them improved for SPVP but not broken overpowered.

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@Stand The Wall.6987 said:

@Sigmoid.7082 said:If you think some of the ~900 odd changes won't target CC then I don't know what to say.

most of the changes won't outright remove cc, so... why would you assume they would?

I don't see them saying that they'll remove CCs, and as fair as I know, they can't change the functionality of a skill with only a skill-split. What they can do on the other hand is: shorten the CCs, and give them longer CDs, so basicly it would lower the CC uptime a necro would have to face.

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@wasss.1208 said:I don't see them saying that they'll remove CCs, and as fair as I know, they can't change the functionality of a skill with only a skill-split. What they can do on the other hand is: shorten the CCs, and give them longer CDs, so basicly it would lower the CC uptime a necro would have to face.

overall this would help no doubt, but theres so much dam cc these days I don't know if we will see any difference unless they drastically increase cds.

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@"Sigmoid.7082" said:If you think some of the ~900 odd changes won't target CC then I don't know what to say.

I wouldn't put my hopes high on those change if I were you.

If I recall properly, the dev was talking about skill split (so number tweeks) when he droped the big number of "800 to 900 items" changed. He didn't talk about what would be changed and, concerning CCs, it could very well be in the line of what was done to warrior's rampage, only bringing the damage done to oblivion in sPvP or WvW. For reference, just daze alone can generate roughly 60 "items" by making damage number tweeks for sPvP and WvW. If you take all hard CC and adjust just their damage for sPvP and WvW, you can very well easily reach 400 "items" in the blink of an eye yet the only thing that you'll have done will be making hard CC a bit less interesting in 1v1. Care to just add a slight increase or decrease in cast time of those CCs and you already reach 800 items. And such changes would mean absolutely nothing from the necromancer point of view (Well, the reaper might feel the pain of having RS#5 nerfed).

The game need quite a few changes that are more fondamental than what any amount of number tweeks can achieve. That's why when I see a dev dropping a big number like that I'm almost certain that nothing good will come out of it.

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@Dadnir.5038 said:

@"Sigmoid.7082" said:If you think some of the ~900 odd changes won't target CC then I don't know what to say.yet the only thing that you'll have done will be making hard CC a bit less interesting in 1v1.

I fail to see how it'll make it "less interesting". In my book if you have a skill that deals 500 dmg and another one that deals 500 dmg AND stuns your target, it doesn't mean the second one more interesting, it just makes it blatantly stronger. Lowering dmg on CC skills doesn't make it less interesting, it keeps it as a utility skill that now would need to be used at correct time instead of just using it as a part of dps rotation on top of incapacitating your target. IMO stronger =/= more interesting.

Care to just add a slight increase or decrease in cast time of those CCs and you already reach 800 items.

If we're to believe this post, you're wrong:https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/1138431/#Comment_1138431

@Svarty.8019 said:

@lare.5129 said:someone worry about number 800-900 ?so if skill have range 240, and not is 220 this is onesame skill damage increase 3%. this is twoupdated icon view - this is 3updated animation, now not 5 lines, but 4 lines - this is 4updated trait whit this skill ..summary: relax, we will still perfect game.

No, Cal stated on the livestream that several changes to one skill count as one change.

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@Sobx.1758 said:

@"Sigmoid.7082" said:If you think some of the ~900 odd changes won't target CC then I don't know what to say.yet the only thing that you'll have done will be making hard CC a bit less interesting in 1v1.

I fail to see how it'll make it "less interesting". In my book if you have a skill that deals 500 dmg and another one that deals 500 dmg AND stuns your target, it doesn't mean the second one more interesting, it just makes it blatantly stronger. Lowering dmg on CC skills doesn't make it less interesting, it keeps it as a utility skill that now would need to be used at correct time instead of just using it as a part of dps rotation on top of incapacitating your target. IMO stronger =/= more interesting.

Care to just add a slight increase or decrease in cast time of those CCs and you already reach 800 items.

I talk about change to damage not to CC, so you looking the other way is an interesting but useless rebutal.

If we're to believe this post, you're wrong:https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/1138431/#Comment_1138431

@lare.5129 said:someone worry about number 800-900 ?so if skill have range 240, and not is 220 this is onesame skill damage increase 3%. this is twoupdated icon view - this is 3updated animation, now not 5 lines, but 4 lines - this is 4updated trait whit this skill ..summary: relax, we will still perfect game.

No, Cal stated on the livestream that several changes to one skill count as one change.

If you believe faithfully in what a player think that a dev said on a livestream your going to be very very disappointed. Half of what they say on the forum already don't happen so imagine in a livestream...

Just keep in mind that what I mean is that what they say have to be taken with a grain of salt. They already mastered the way to give misleading answer and players are especially good at believing that they heard what they want to hear. 800-900 change is a big number which mainly exist to have an impact on the player base, such a number mean a lot of small number tweek when the game need changes that can't be adressed like this.

  • You won't adress CCs with number tweeks because CCs where originally designed and balance to work alongside a stability that work in a totally different way than the current stability.
  • You won't adress barrier by number tweeks either, the barrier issue isn't dependant on the barrier output.
  • You won't adress combo/combo field with number tweeks (note that more than a year ago they said that they were looking into reviving combos... Nothing done yet!).
  • You won't adress the boon powercreep with mere number tweeks, there is some fondamental change to traits and skills to do.
  • You won't adress boon corruption with number tweeks either, boon corruption wasn't a mechanism that was initially meant to be so omnipresent.
  • You won't adress the necromancer's PvE dps with number tweeks, it's been done and the consequences ain't pretty.
  • You won't adress the necromancer's survivability by changing more skills into life leeching crappy skills.

For 800-900 change to be implemented it can only be number tweeks, and like I say, number tweeks lead us nowhere. At best it will temporary modify the top dogs in the meta but there will be absolutely no improvement to a game that desperatly need improvements.

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wow that's hilarious.

Hilarious because the joke is on anyone that thinks they justify core necro getting more stability? I agree. I've been laughing for the last 8 years at people that think like that.

Well most of those changes aren't "give more stab to necro"

That's right. In fact, It's NOT just core necro needs stability that is funny ... it's almost everything players have suggested; it typically follows the same line of logic because they don't consider the perspective of how this game is actually designed and built. It's mostly based on what some player thinks they need because of some deficiency they feel they shouldn't have in PVP/WvW/PVE. That's why it's ALL funny to me. It misses all the relevant questions that should be asked.

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@Dadnir.5038 said:

@"Sigmoid.7082" said:If you think some of the ~900 odd changes won't target CC then I don't know what to say.yet the only thing that you'll have done will be making hard CC a bit less interesting in 1v1.

I fail to see how it'll make it "less interesting". In my book if you have a skill that deals 500 dmg and another one that deals 500 dmg AND stuns your target, it doesn't mean the second one more interesting, it just makes it blatantly stronger. Lowering dmg on CC skills doesn't make it less interesting, it keeps it as a utility skill that now would need to be used at correct time instead of just using it as a part of dps rotation on top of incapacitating your target. IMO stronger =/= more interesting.

Care to just add a slight increase or decrease in cast time of those CCs and you already reach 800 items.

I talk about change to damage not to CC, so you looking the other way is an interesting but useless rebutal.

What? You literally wrote "concerning CCs, it could very well be in the line of what was done to warrior's rampage, only bringing the damage done to oblivion in sPvP or WvW. " and "If you take all hard CC and adjust just their damage for sPvP and WvW, you can very well easily reach 400 "items" in the blink of an eye yet the only thing that you'll have done will be making hard CC a bit less interesting in 1v1", which talks about reducing cc dmg making it somehow less interesting. You're talking about dmg of cc skills and so am I, how is this "looking the other way", what are you even talking about right now?

If we're to believe this post, you're wrong:

@"lare.5129" said:someone worry about number 800-900 ?so if skill have range 240, and not is 220 this is onesame skill damage increase 3%. this is twoupdated icon view - this is 3updated animation, now not 5 lines, but 4 lines - this is 4updated trait whit this skill ..summary: relax, we will still perfect game.

No, Cal stated on the livestream that several changes to one skill count as one change.

If you believe faithfully in what a player think that a dev said on a livestream your going to be very very disappointed. Half of what they say on the forum already don't happen so imagine in a livestream...

That player already made another thread from the dev stream before with selected quotes, so I'd say at this moment he has provided more evidence to his words than you did. You're free to think whatever you want though.

such a number mean a lot of small number tweek

You don't say... It's totally not like they said they're bringing the dmg/healing numbers down, right? Pretty sure it would be hard to do that without implementing a lot of number tweaks to a great number of skills. Seems pretty obvious to me.

I've answered regarding the changes we have any information about. Meanwhile it seems you want to keep making blind guesses about things we know nothing about and tbh I couldn't care less about those guesses. I don't really see the point, which is why I'm skipping those.

Just, uh, I don't think you're even correct about "number changes not being able to solve boon powercreep/corruption/pve dps/cc" -pretty sure number of stacks, duration, cooldown, number of targets are all just number tweaks and fairly sure that's more-or-less all you need to touch to nerf boons as hard as you want. Doesn't mean it's easy to put it all in correct places, but pretty sure number tweaks are capable of putting them where they need to be. Again, more-or-less, because nobody should even expect anything close to perfect balance. That said, we have no idea what they'll change beside the dmg/heal/"do-it-all skills" and I don't see the point of guessing what else they'll do (if anything) -I'll just wait and read the patch notes.

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@Obtena.7952 said:That's right. In fact, It's NOT just core necro needs stability that is funny ... it's almost everything players have suggested; it typically follows the same line of logic because they don't consider the perspective of how this game is actually designed and built. It's mostly based on what some player thinks they need because of some deficiency they feel they shouldn't have in PVP/WvW/PVE. That's why it's ALL funny to me. It misses all the relevant questions that should be asked.

another thing that likely won't happen. i'm all for classes having actual drawbacks, but have you heard of elite specs? its too late for all that. time to just jump on the train.

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@Stand The Wall.6987 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:That's right. In fact, It's NOT just core necro needs stability that is funny ... it's almost everything players have suggested; it typically follows the same line of logic because they don't consider the perspective of how this game is actually designed and built. It's mostly based on what some player thinks they need because of some deficiency they feel they shouldn't have in PVP/WvW/PVE. That's why it's ALL funny to me. It misses all the relevant questions that should be asked.

another thing that likely won't happen. i'm all for classes having actual drawbacks, but have you heard of elite specs? its too late for all that. time to just jump on the train.

No, never heard of them ... what are those? LAWL!

But in all seriousness here. I'm pretty sure that AT LEAST if people had more consideration for how things work instead of imposing their own vision on the whole thing, we would have more positive outcomes. Not saying you get whatever you want here, just saying that in some way, I believe things would be better. At least it's amusing.

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@"Sobx.1758" said:What? You literally wrote "concerning CCs, it could very well be in the line of what was done to warrior's rampage, only bringing the damage done to oblivion in sPvP or WvW. " and "If you take all hard CC and adjust just their damage for sPvP and WvW, you can very well easily reach 400 "items" in the blink of an eye yet the only thing that you'll have done will be making hard CC a bit less interesting in 1v1", which talks about reducing cc dmg making it somehow less interesting. You're talking about dmg of cc skills and so am I, how is this "looking the other way", what are you even talking about right now?

Let me quote you as well:

In my book if you have a skill that deals 500 dmg and another one that deals 500 dmg AND stuns your target, it doesn't mean the second one more interesting, it just makes it blatantly stronger.You're talking about adding or removing CC on skills that deal damage.

That player already made another thread from the dev stream before with selected quotes, so I'd say at this moment he has provided more evidence to his words than you did. You're free to think whatever you want though.

Like I said, You are taking for granted something that someone wrote based on it's own understanding of what he think that the dev said when it's very common for dev to say a lot of things in a volontarily blurred way to make player thinks what they wish to think. Basically you're a third party quoting a second party interpreting what the main character said in a live performance where his thoughts can be twisted and biased by it's own perspectives that aren't necessarily the same perspective than the second and third party. Which is why I say to take it with a grain of salt.

such a number mean a lot of small number tweek

You don't say... It's totally not like they said they're bringing the dmg/healing numbers down, right? Pretty sure it would be hard to do that without implementing a lot of number tweaks to a great number of skills. Seems pretty obvious to me.

I've answered regarding the changes we have any information about. Meanwhile it seems you want to keep making blind guesses about things we know nothing about and tbh I couldn't care less about those guesses. I don't really see the point, which is why I'm skipping those.

Just, uh, I don't think you're even correct about "number changes not being able to solve boon powercreep/corruption/pve dps/cc" -pretty sure number of stacks, duration, cooldown, number of targets are all just number tweaks and fairly sure that's more-or-less all you need to touch to nerf boons as hard as you want. Doesn't mean it's easy to put it all in correct places, but pretty sure number tweaks are capable of putting them where they need to be. Again, more-or-less, because nobody should even expect anything close to perfect balance. That said, we have no idea what they'll change beside the dmg/heal/"do-it-all skills" and I don't see the point of guessing what else they'll do (if anything) -I'll just wait and read the patch notes.

I'll give you an analogy of what happen with number tweaks:

Imagine that the necromancer is a man. This man break is arm (the scourge appear). The thing is that this broken arm is bending in a wrong angle and really need to be straigthen for it to heal, however, the doctor is just a drug dealer and chose to give the man pain killers (number tweaks) and antibiotics, and tell him to come back in 3 month. 3 month later, the man say that his arm still hurt and thus the drug dealer chose to increase pain killers and wait for 3 month. 3 month later the man come back and say that his stomach hurt as well (because it's well known that pain killers mess with your stomach), the drug dealer is more than happy to give medecine for the stomach and wait 3 more month. 3 month later, the man come back with the white of it's eyes turned yellow, the drug dealer understand that the liver of the man is failing due to the combination of pain killer and stomach medecine taken for a long time, and thus give him a medecine for it's liver and wait for 3 month. 3 month later the man come back again and say that he is tired, the drug dealer answer that he got a good thing for the fact that he lack vigor, give him viagra and wait for 3 month. 3 month later, the man say that he is still tired so the drug dealer suspect that he got a problem with his breathing and give him medecine that's suppose to improve it's breathing. For all those month, the man keep saying that whenever he fold his arm, it hurt like hell and finally 3 month later, the drug dealer reluctantely say that he will do something about it despite the fact that it will deal permanent damage. What does the drug dealer do? Obviously he cut the tendons at the elbow so that the man can't fold his arm and hope for the pain to disapear this way. The man discover that he is now even more crippled and it continue to hurt a lot. 3 month later, the drug dealer accept the fact that the man still is in pain, choose to give him stronger pain killers and promise him that in 3 month he will have brewed a dangerous mix of pain killers and vitamins that should hopefully ease the problem of everyone.

Truth be told, all professions face the same drug dealer and all of them have their share of broken limbs that are treated with pain killers again and again. Does it fix the broken limbs? Nope. Is the new dangerous mix of pain killers and vitamins going to fix the limbs of everyones? Nope. That's all there is to know, there are selling you drugs when you need chiropracy, you're bound to still be in pain after the new medecine is released and given to everyone because the medecine don't treat your broken limb, it try to distract you from the pain. Worse than that, is that you are slowly developping a resistance to the effects of the medecines and you feel that you need more of it at a stronger concentration each time (powercreep!). All of that because of what? A broken limb that badly need to be fixed.

You can be happy to see the incoming batch of medecine but I can garantee you one thing, you won't fix the broken limbs with it, you'll only create more deficiency elsewhere in your body due to the fact that you take medecine, because, from the very beginning, any and all medecines are poisons, dangerous drugs that wreck your body from the inside and aren't meant to be taken for long period of time.

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@Dadnir.5038 said:

@"Sobx.1758" said:What? You literally wrote "
concerning CCs, it could very well be in the line of what was done to warrior's rampage, only bringing the damage done to oblivion in sPvP or WvW.
" and "
If you take all hard CC and adjust just their damage for sPvP and WvW, you can very well easily reach 400 "items" in the blink of an eye yet the only thing that you'll have done will be making hard CC a bit less interesting in 1v1
", which talks about reducing cc dmg making it somehow less interesting. You're talking about dmg of cc skills and so am I, how is this "looking the other way", what are you even talking about right now?

Let me quote you as well:

In my book if you have a skill that deals 500 dmg and another one that deals 500 dmg AND stuns your target, it doesn't mean the second one more interesting, it just makes it blatantly stronger.You're talking about adding or removing CC on skills that deal damage.

Ah, so that's where you misunderstood what I said. I wasn't talking about adding or removing cc on skills, I was comparing 2 different skills -one with cc, and another without cc. Similar dmg+ cc is clearly superior and it doesn't somehow make the skill "more interesting", which is why I said "stronger =/= more interesting". If anything, the dmg reduction allows non-cc skills to even compete with hard cc skills instead of using it as a part of some kind of dps rotation (which is what I also wrote before). The keypress on low dmg cc skills seems to be more meaningful/interesting to me than just killing a target by hard ccing it at the same time (where the rampage nerf entered the scene)."if you have a skill that deals 500 dmg and another one that deals 500 dmg AND stuns your target"

That player already made another thread from the dev stream before with selected quotes, so I'd say at this moment he has provided more evidence to his words than you did. You're free to think whatever you want though.

Like I said, You are taking for granted something that someone wrote based on it's own understanding of what he think that the dev said when it's very common for dev to say a lot of things in a volontarily blurred way to make player thinks what they wish to think. Basically you're a third party quoting a second party interpreting what the main character said in a live performance where his thoughts can be twisted and biased by it's own perspectives that aren't necessarily the same perspective than the second and third party. Which is why I say to take it with a grain of salt.

Or maybe he provided a proof of actually watching dev streams, posted it on forum for other players and I checked if what he quoted was true or not? As I said, he proved to be reliable in regards of watching and quoting what happened on dev streams. He literally has direct quotes from the devs, while all YOU have are blind unsupported guesses and "wishful thinking", so the choice here is rather easy. And you don't "take it with a grain of salt", you were clearly unaware of it and then made up your own narrative. If you want to hold onto it just so you don't need to admit to yourself that you were wrong, then you're free to do so, but that won't change the facts. There's also not much room for overinterpreting what he quoted, but keep going with your hypotheticals if that helps you with something.

such a number mean a lot of small number tweek

You don't say... It's totally not like they said they're bringing the dmg/healing numbers down, right? Pretty sure it would be hard to do that without implementing a lot of number tweaks to a great number of skills. Seems pretty obvious to me.

I've answered regarding the changes we have any information about. Meanwhile it seems you want to keep making blind guesses about things we know nothing about and tbh I couldn't care less about those guesses. I don't really see the point, which is why I'm skipping those.

Just, uh, I don't think you're even correct about "number changes not being able to solve boon powercreep/corruption/pve dps/cc" -pretty sure number of stacks, duration, cooldown, number of targets are all just number tweaks and fairly sure that's more-or-less all you need to touch to nerf boons as hard as you want. Doesn't mean it's easy to put it all in correct places, but pretty sure number tweaks are capable of putting them where they need to be. Again, more-or-less, because nobody should even expect anything close to perfect balance. That said, we have no idea what they'll change beside the dmg/heal/"do-it-all skills" and I don't see the point of guessing what else they'll do (if anything) -I'll just wait and read the patch notes.

I'll give you an analogy of what happen with number tweaks:

I stopped reading at "imagine necromancer is a man". It's a game, we're talking about skills coded in numbers and you claim that things like boon powercreep can't be changed/fixed with number tweaks, which is wrong. As I said, it doesn't mean "balancing" it would be super easy and it would succeed at first balance pass, but it can literally be done with just number tweaks in regards to number of stacks, cooldown, duration and so on. No amount of me "imagining necromancer is a man" will change that. If you want to answer to that, use ingame examples, not analogies that -most probably- won't even apply.

Worse than that, is that you are slowly developping a resistance to the effects of the medecines and you feel that you need more of it at a stronger concentration each time (powercreep!). All of that because of what? A broken limb that badly need to be fixed.

Yeah, yeah, yeah... Yet somehow you're typing that to the person that's advocating for moving the balance "the other way" as opposed to the people that just want buffs in this thread and that's AFTER we've already established that anet will be scaling things down in march. So in the end I wasn't wrong about you trying to use "analogies that -most probably- won't even apply" and that's still after skipping the previous paragraph. It's like you're arguing with the opposite of what I wrote -if anything, YOU are the one that wants to keep buffing the class.

You can be happy to see the incoming batch of medecine but I can garantee you one thing, you won't fix the broken limbs with it, you'll only create more deficiency elsewhere in your body due to the fact that you take medecine, because, from the very beginning, any and all medecines are poisons, dangerous drugs that wreck your body from the inside and aren't meant to be taken for long period of time.

Well, the only thing you can guarantee right now is that you'll keep making blind guesses to support your opinion and made-up claims.Actually I don't even see how your medicine analogy relates to me saying that number changes can easly fix some of the issues you've listed as "unfixable by number tweaks". I think you got a little carried away and lost the track about what you were answering to, huh.

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@"Sobx.1758" said:Yeah, yeah, yeah... Yet somehow you're typing that to the person that's advocating for moving the balance "the other way" as opposed to the people that just want buffs in this thread and that's AFTER we've already established that anet will be scaling things down in march. So in the end I wasn't wrong about you trying to use "analogies that -most probably- won't even apply" and that's still after skipping the previous paragraph. It's like you're arguing with the opposite of what I wrote -if anything, YOU are the one that wants to keep buffing the class.

What I want is the problems fixed, not buffs. As long as you continue to not adress the problems by doing number tweaks, you don't fix those problems.

Most changes that are needed to fix those problems will result in a flat nerf of the overall performance anyway. That's why I'd rather see things truly fiwed instead of adjusted blindly like they've been done for years already.

I'll continue with the medicine analogy that you've dismissed by saying that I don't want to live with my arm bending at a weird angle by relying on pain killers. What I want is to have a straigth arm that don't need pain killers. In other words, I'd rather have the devs fix the issue instead of selling us hundred and hundred of changes meant to ease the issues due to broken mechanisms.

Well, the only thing you can guarantee right now is that you'll keep making blind guesses to support your opinion and made-up claims.

It's not blind guesses, it's experience. We've seen ANet do number tweaks for years already and it never ever fixed anything. We litterally have 7 years worth of patchnotes proving my claim while you got some earsay and your own hopes to support your point.

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@Dadnir.5038 said:

@"Sobx.1758" said:Yeah, yeah, yeah... Yet somehow you're typing that to the person that's advocating for moving the balance "the other way" as opposed to the people that just want buffs in this thread and that's AFTER we've already established that anet will be scaling things down in march. So in the end I wasn't wrong about you trying to use "analogies that -most probably- won't even apply" and that's still after skipping the previous paragraph. It's like you're arguing with the opposite of what I wrote -if anything, YOU are the one that wants to keep buffing the class.

What I want is the problems fixed, not buffs. As long as you continue to not adress the problems by doing number tweaks, you don't fix those problems.

Most changes that are needed to fix those problems will result in a flat nerf of the overall performance anyway. That's why I'd rather see things truly fiwed instead of adjusted blindly like they've been done for years already.

As I wrote, I think most of the problems you've listed can be fixed by number changes (which aren't limited to dmg values).

I'll continue with the medicine analogy that you've dismissed by saying that I don't want to live with my arm bending at a weird angle by relying on pain killers. What I want is to have a straigth arm that don't need pain killers. In other words, I'd rather have the devs fix the issue instead of selling us hundred and hundred of changes meant to ease the issues due to broken mechanisms.

You can continue with the medicine analogy, it still doesn't apply here though.

Well, the only thing you can guarantee right now is that you'll keep making blind guesses to support your opinion and made-up claims.

It's not blind guesses, it's experience.

Yes, it's literally and quite obviously a blind guess and you probably know that.

We've seen ANet do number tweaks for years already and it never ever fixed anything. We litterally have 7 years worth of patchnotes proving my claim while you got some earsay and your own hopes to support your point.

And pretty sure never at this scale that aims at pulling the line back instead of pulling singular skills in the ever-moving-forward line, where the "line" = "the norm".You literally don't have a single patch note that tried doing what the march update is supposed to do. And you apparently forgot that where you were wrong is where you've claimed multiple changes on the same skill will count as multiple changes, meanwhile they'll count as one, so you've tried to deny the scale of the change. Suddenly you're pivoting into those changes being un/successful. Did you lose the context, or intentionally try to appear like you're not wrong by moving the goalposts? :sleeping:

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wow that's hilarious.

Hilarious because the joke is on anyone that thinks they justify core necro getting more stability? I agree. I've been laughing for the last 8 years at people that think like that.

Well most of those changes aren't "give more stab to necro"

That's right. In fact, It's NOT just core necro needs stability that is funny ... it's almost everything players have suggested; it typically follows the same line of logic because they don't consider the perspective of how this game is actually designed and built. It's mostly based on what some player thinks they need because of some deficiency they feel they shouldn't have in PVP/WvW/PVE. That's why it's ALL funny to me. It misses all the relevant questions that should be asked.

I think the reason ask for things like this for necro is because other professions all have tools to fight other professions with ease to avoid being stunn/ immoblize trapped via evades that move them or blinks , stealth etc. Necro has been aggressively balanced to not have any of these things even with its elites it does not have a wider boon table and anet has kept it where almost every single other profession has a play style that can solo harass-it (maybe except ele)

Necromancer can often make a build thats good against 1 or 2 things while other professions can be good against the majority of things in truth its easy to feel that necro has been more aggressively balanced than other professions in the since that anet is still holding it to its core launch date values. In other words all specs are slow, all specs have limited mobility, no extra evades or blocks, all specs have limited boon table (mostly self might, swiftness, some protection, limited stab). Has no insane synergy that leads to immediately high condi ramp like weaver or mirage or heal potential like warrior via might gain.

So really i cant blame people for saying things like that. Its not just based on what the player thinks necro needs its based on what the player sees that every other professions has that necromancer does not for some reason.

MY main concern with the changes is that necro will be over nerfed despite it already lacking alot of things other professions have gained over time via elites. But oh well...

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wow that's hilarious.

Hilarious because the joke is on anyone that thinks they justify core necro getting more stability? I agree. I've been laughing for the last 8 years at people that think like that.

Well most of those changes aren't "give more stab to necro"

That's right. In fact, It's NOT just core necro needs stability that is funny ... it's almost everything players have suggested; it typically follows the same line of logic because they don't consider the perspective of how this game is actually designed and built. It's mostly based on what some player thinks they need because of some deficiency they feel they shouldn't have in PVP/WvW/PVE. That's why it's ALL funny to me. It misses all the relevant questions that should be asked.

I think the reason ask for things like this for necro is because other professions all have tools to fight other professions with ease to avoid being stunn/ immoblize trapped via evades that move them or blinks , stealth etc. Necro has been aggressively balanced to not have any of these things even with its elites it does not have a wider boon table and anet has kept it where almost every single other profession has a play style that can solo harass-it (maybe except ele)

I don't disagree with that's why people ask ... but based on how we see the game working for 8 years, it doesn't seem like a good reason to ask. You shouldn't be overly concerned necro will be nerfed ... because you didn't pick necro because of it's great performance in the first place.

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@Stand The Wall.6987 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:if people had more consideration for how things work

play core necro and consider these words

I have ... and I've come to the same conclusions other have about core necro here. I'm just evolved in my thinking and understanding of the game ... and I used my choice to find a build that works better for me.

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wow that's hilarious.

Hilarious because the joke is on anyone that thinks they justify core necro getting more stability? I agree. I've been laughing for the last 8 years at people that think like that.

Well most of those changes aren't "give more stab to necro"

That's right. In fact, It's NOT just core necro needs stability that is funny ... it's almost everything players have suggested; it typically follows the same line of logic because they don't consider the perspective of how this game is actually designed and built. It's mostly based on what some player thinks they need because of some deficiency they feel they shouldn't have in PVP/WvW/PVE. That's why it's ALL funny to me. It misses all the relevant questions that should be asked.

I think the reason ask for things like this for necro is because other professions all have tools to fight other professions with ease to avoid being stunn/ immoblize trapped via evades that move them or blinks , stealth etc. Necro has been aggressively balanced to not have any of these things even with its elites it does not have a wider boon table and anet has kept it where almost every single other profession has a play style that can solo harass-it (maybe except ele)

I don't disagree with that's why people ask ... but based on how we see the game working for 8 years, it doesn't seem like a good reason to ask. You shouldn't be overly concerned necro will be nerfed ... because you didn't pick necro because of it's great performance in the first place.

Of course it will be nerfed but i dont want to play what is my fav profession only because boon corruption is keeping it a float either. There is a limit of mechanical gap that is once crossed that even the majority of people wont play something just because they like it.If playing the thing you like thematically becomes too ez countered by almost everything else in the game or everything in the meta it becomes more frustrating than enjoyable to play. I think there is good reason to ask for necromancer to not directly be hard buffed but at least normalized mechanically to what all the other professions have and let go of those launch values that anet keeps holding it to.

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wow that's hilarious.

Hilarious because the joke is on anyone that thinks they justify core necro getting more stability? I agree. I've been laughing for the last 8 years at people that think like that.

Well most of those changes aren't "give more stab to necro"

That's right. In fact, It's NOT just core necro needs stability that is funny ... it's almost everything players have suggested; it typically follows the same line of logic because they don't consider the perspective of how this game is actually designed and built. It's mostly based on what some player thinks they need because of some deficiency they feel they shouldn't have in PVP/WvW/PVE. That's why it's ALL funny to me. It misses all the relevant questions that should be asked.

I think the reason ask for things like this for necro is because other professions all have tools to fight other professions with ease to avoid being stunn/ immoblize trapped via evades that move them or blinks , stealth etc. Necro has been aggressively balanced to not have any of these things even with its elites it does not have a wider boon table and anet has kept it where almost every single other profession has a play style that can solo harass-it (maybe except ele)

I don't disagree with that's why people ask ... but based on how we see the game working for 8 years, it doesn't seem like a good reason to ask. You shouldn't be overly concerned necro will be nerfed ... because you didn't pick necro because of it's great performance in the first place.

Of course it will be nerfed but i dont want to play what is my fav profession only because boon corruption is keeping it a float either. There is a limit of mechanical gap that is once crossed that even the majority of people wont play something just because they like it.If playing the thing you like thematically becomes too ez countered by almost everything else in the game or everything in the meta it becomes more frustrating than enjoyable to play. I think there is good reason to ask for necromancer to not directly be hard buffed but at least normalized mechanically to what all the other professions have and let go of those launch values that anet keeps holding it to.

Hey, that's all very good and I'm not going argue against it. I'm just saying that if the game isn't designed to consider that way of thinking, then that way of thinking isn't going to be a compelling reason for Anet to change it. OFC no one wants their favoured class nerfed, whether it deserves it or not .... but if you don't recognize how the theme of the classes has motivated Anet to make class changes over the last 8 years, then you aren't really trying hard enough to get the changes you want to see within the system where these changes are made. There isn't a 'revolution' that's going to happen outside the current game design parameters and methodology ... but that's almost every single thread how players imagine their changes being implemented. Anything that's "Hey I want this because it's a big gap in performance" is a big fail right off the bat ... because CLEARLY big performance gaps wouldn't exist in this game if it was THE compelling reason to change it.

The answer in short term is that you have choices ... and if your choice is to stubbornly stick to a specific choice because of thematic reasons, then you can't fault Anet for that. Longer term, you have the opportunity to learn and think about all the kinds of things I'm saying here and what they mean so that when you do have an idea, you don't just pitch it out there like every other person that has no clue about what's going on or how things work.

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  • 2 weeks later...

@"ZeftheWicked.3076" said:Let's be honest. Unless you got an a-net tag next to your name, you're not gonna pretend core necro is on pair with elite specs and an alternative playstyle with similar overall power budget. We know it's not, on so many levels.

And one of those "levels" is stability access. I'm not gonna complain about reaper, because being a melee spec it deserves better stability access.But when a scourge of all things, the caster spec, with shades that can can be used even when face down in the ground still gets better access to stab (trail of anguish) then core necro i call bs.

Then again 'tis but a fleshwound compare to total sum of woes of the game's weakest spec in general, not just among cores.

Hope you weren't looking forward to that Stability, as we just lost more.

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