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Official Feedback Thread about Build and Equipment Templates


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@TwoGhosts.6790 said:

@susana.7814 said:price reasonable yet?

That's a subjective question. How you define reasonable may not be what others define it to be. Clearly, ANet believes it is reasonable.

And what do you think?This is a feedback thread.

I think for the type of system they created and how is it implanted ingame right now, the price is absolutely and shamefully abusive and unreasonable.However...if you watch the gaming industry standards nowadays(and more expecially the korean online/mmo industry) its totally fine and EVEN could have been put for more cash that it is right now(if korean people were hypothetically in charge of pricing).

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@"BlackyWarsX.5384" said:Dear diary, it's me! Laganja! With another fever dream!

The last few days / weeks I've been thinking about how to improve build templates loadouts even more, you know, making them actual templates. I already did a first mockup a while back, but then I thought: "The hero window needs an overhaul!".

Tha base for this overhaul came to mind when I took a look at gw2skills.net and their editor. It shows so much useful information and I took a lot of inspiration from it:

  • effects (boons, conditions, cc, etc) your build is capable of
  • a short overview of specs you're using in the current build
  • upgrades visible in their own slot

    So I sat down (again), opened Photoshop and started to move things around, scrap some stuff, add some new stuff and some things came around.

    As usual, a

    disclaimer

    This is just a design concept. I don't know how hard it would be to implement, I just played with the interfaceFull gallery on imgur

    Rearranging the Hero Panel

    Some major things have changed in the hero panel! There is no longer an extra "skills and trait" menu and two new menus were added: mounts and travel.

    OCuzyIu.pngFrom top to bottom this would be:

    1. Equipment (Inventory)
    2. Armory (Templates)
    3. Training
    4. Mounts
    5. Travel (all your teleport items and unlocks are available here)
    6. Journal
    7. Crafting
    8. Achievements
    9. Masteries

    The equipment menu

    Equipment

    The equipment menu is just your regular gear / inventory. It has changed quite a bit!

    x2dJzcf.pngThe left side shows your characters information (name, level, class) along with your currently loaded template and a preview of your templates specs. Just below that are your attributes and settings.

    On the right side is the "effect summary". It shows what your build is capable of doing: boons, conditions, cc, buffs, combo-fields and combo finishers.

    yezXcTc.pngBelow that is the expandable inventory. It shows up whenever you want to change stuff around.

    In the center is your character and their gear. I placed some more slots for upgrades and infusions next to the gear. Right now it's more of a... "visual support" to easily see if/what upgrades your gear has slotted. There's also a new "customize" button which shows up if you select an armor piece or weapon.

    aASX749.pngYou can open it to select stats, upgrades and infusions (depending on your gear, of course). The inventory panel on the right adapts to whatever your selection needs (stats, infusions, upgrades, gear).

    vS9qKEq.pngI was thinking about adding a toggle for upgrades to show/hide the upgrade slots, but I'm not happy with it right now.

    This is your equipment.It's based on your currently loaded template, but does not change your template once you decide to change weapons or stats on the fly. This is where settings come into play: If you ever decide to save your changes, you can...

  • ... override your currently loaded template
  • ... save a new template
  • ... revert any changes and reload your current template

    by the way: gathering tools and glyphs are now also part of your build.

    Builds

    Builds look different, too! Instead of being horizontal, I arranged them vertically and removed a lot of unused white space to make them more compact (also I had to because otherwise they would not have fit into the area).

    bR7b6cp.pngBelow your specializations are your characters skills. It shows what weapon types you've equipped in your weapon sets and let's you change your utility skills.

    7guqUor.pngSelecting a slot opens up the skills & traits window with pre-defined filters for that slot, in this case 'healing skills'.

    FRVeIt6.pngYou can also toggle between aquatic and terrestrial environments.

    Wardrobe

    The wardrobe is now part of your build, too! Since specializations and gear is not important for the wardrobe, the window looks a little bit different from the rest.

    kDUhldF.pngNow you don't apply skins to items, you apply skins to gear slots. This way you can change your gear around, but keep all your settings (skin, dyes). Applying skins to slots requires transmutation charges as usual, loading templates does not use any charges, though.

    Novelties are just skins with functions, so I moved them to the wardrobe as well. You can now set chairs, toys, finishers and minis according to your style of build as well.

    The Armory

    Nd0ch7s.png

    The armory contains all your saved builds. Your list of builds is on the left, your stat and effect summary is on the right with your characters information about gear, traits and skins in the center. You can choose which build is your default PvE, WvW and PvP build and edit your templates or delete them.

    mknjTrZ.png

    Your build list will change to the inventory panel once you edit a template.In the top left, above the inventory, you can change the name of the build.In the top right, you can set a gamemode for your build.

    The center looks and behaves exactly like the equipment screen.Any changes must be saved to take effect.

    Mounts

    Mounts now get their own submenu in the hero panel.I created two versions but I'm not quite happy with either. They are also an early draft.I also added a "dummy" underwater mount just because we don't have one yet.

    Version 1

    SEelTv5.png

    An overview of all of your unlocked mounts is on the right side.

    ucMG20s.png

    Choosing a mount will open the skins & dyes panel for this mount and shows their skin slot and dye channel.It also shows a short description and your unlocked skills for this mount.

    Version 2

    vhHHxgb.png

    All your mounts are laid accross the window, showing their icon, image, and their engage skill.

    GhvDcdD.png

    Choosing a mount will fade out all the others and moves your selection to the left. The engage skill becomes a "back" button.The center area now shows your mount slot, dye channel, a preview and skills. The right side shows your skin and dye collection.

    Travel

    Unfortunately no screen here.

    This panel would list all your unlocked teleports.Things that would show up here:

  • Tomes
  • Teleport to Home Instance
  • VIP Lounges
  • Word Boss Devices

    A final note

    Again, these are just mockups. There needs to be more usecase evaluations and usability tests, as well as some warning messages when you change stuff. There's a lot to be thought of.

    Also: I know this will probably never happen. But I did it anyway.

Holy God, someone employ this guy now!

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@DarkEmiLupus.2876 said:

@susana.7814 said:price reasonable yet?

That's a subjective question. How you define reasonable may not be what others define it to be. Clearly, ANet believes it is reasonable.

And what do you think?This is a feedback thread.

I think for the type of system they created and how is it implanted ingame right now, the price is absolutely and shamefully
abusive
and
unreasonable
.
However
...if you watch the gaming industry standards
nowadays
(
and more expecially the korean online/mmo industry
) its totally fine and
EVEN
could have been put for more cash that it is right now(
if korean people were hypothetically in charge of pricing
).

I agree with you.I quoted the other guy though.The one who seemed to think that what Anet believes is relevant in this thread.It isn't.This is a feedback thread.I was curious what his opinion was.But if they do believe it's reasonable, they're wrong.That won't, sadly, stop some people from wasting their money on this shit.But two wrongs don't make a right.

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I just noticed that the autoswitch between gamemodes not just applies to build loadouts, but also equipment. :)That's pretty much the first real advantage of this system compared to the old one where we had to remember to equip the right weapons each time. Small thing, but nice to have.

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@Ashantara.8731 said:

@Moradorin.6217 said:They dont work, they punnish people who use legendary weapons by doing bullkitten like automatically removing the sigils and infusions from your weapons each time you try to change your weapon set

That was
fixed
when Episode 1 of the Icebrood Saga released.

No it wasn't. It still removes upgrades from legendary weapons if you swap them on the fly.

It doesn't for me, unless the bug re-occured with one of the later patches.

So, out of curiosity, I tried again today switching my legendary scepter and sword set for a legendary greatsword with two exotic runes in it. It kept the exotic runes in the greatsword after switching back. I now I tried this immediatly after they wrote about it in the patchnotes, but it didn't work back then. Glad it does now.

But switching back has become a hassle as my initial setup, scepter and sword, is stored in another template as well. So after equipping the greatsword, scepter and sword went back into the gear storage, unequipping all upgrades and infusions applied to them.

In order to get back to my inital setting, I have to reequip the weapon from the gear storage and reapply all upgrades and infusions again. With legendary sigils, I have to remember the sigil I had before and need to search for it again in the customization window. And to be honest, I have no idea how they could fix that with the gear storage in place. I think it would work if there was an item check using the normal inventory, but that's just wild guessing.

Also: Thanks for all the love for my mockups, I just wished Arenanet could reshape the system to be more like them.

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@BlackyWarsX.5384 said:

@Moradorin.6217 said:They dont work, they punnish people who use legendary weapons by doing bullkitten like automatically removing the sigils and infusions from your weapons each time you try to change your weapon set

That was
fixed
when Episode 1 of the Icebrood Saga released.

No it wasn't. It still removes upgrades from legendary weapons if you swap them on the fly.

It doesn't for me, unless the bug re-occured with one of the later patches.

So, out of curiosity, I tried again today switching my legendary scepter and sword set for a legendary greatsword with two exotic runes in it. It kept the exotic runes in the greatsword after switching back. I now I tried this immediatly after they wrote about it in the patchnotes, but it didn't work back then. Glad it does now.

But switching back has become a hassle as my initial setup, scepter and sword, is stored in another template as well. So after equipping the greatsword, scepter and sword went back into the gear storage, unequipping all upgrades and infusions applied to them.

In order to get back to my inital setting, I have to reequip the weapon from the gear storage and reapply all upgrades and infusions again. With legendary sigils, I have to remember the sigil I had before and need to search for it again in the customization window. And to be honest, I have no idea how they could fix that with the gear storage in place. I think it would work if there was an item check using the normal inventory, but that's just wild guessing.

Also: Thanks for all the love for my mockups, I just wished Arenanet could reshape the system to be more like them.

Yes! This is exactly the issue I have with templates at present. I use more combinations of weapons than the default tabs provide and the new system strips my weapons of sigils and infusions if I swap on that isn't already setup in a template tab which I don't have enough of. Furthermore, I find it a little insulting to people with legendaries because it only really impacts them and it makes dealing with changing gear more hassle than before they added this template system. Others in previous posts actually tried to refute that this is a valid issue. Thank you for your comment as it's factually accurate and might help resolve the issues many of us are having with the present template system.

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@SoulGuardian.6203 said:Someone might have posted this already, but sometimes when adding equipment to slot 2, then hover the mouse pointer over the slot 1 tab, it shows the wrong stats comparison between both.

You have to completely exit Hero pannel and bring it up again to refresh.

Also, occasionally happens with the dyes too.

This was actually an issue with legendary gear before the templates so I don't think its template specific. I noticed it swapping runes infusions when going between wvw and fractals on my armor.

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So, I'm not sure if this is new or has been there all along. But I can't get the build template to maintain either armor skins or dyes on a shared legendary set of armor. I burnt through quite a few transmutation charges trying to have a different set of skins and dyes (one set for each build) but they just don't seem to stick.

The runes and infusions do stay in place but the skins and dyes are now "shared" along with the legendary armor. Please tell me this is a bug.

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@"dbill.7483" said:So, I'm not sure if this is new or has been there all along. But I can't get the build template to maintain either armor skins or dyes on a shared legendary set of armor. I burnt through quite a few transmutation charges trying to have a different set of skins and dyes (one set for each build) but they just don't seem to stick.

The runes and infusions do stay in place but the skins and dyes are now "shared" along with the legendary armor. Please tell me this is a bug.

Yea it wont do that, I wish it would. To get 2 looks I have to use 2 physical sets still. That would be nice though. The closest it will do is change the infusions which can give a specific look for each with visual infusions.

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@"dbill.7483" said:The runes and infusions do stay in place but the skins and dyes are now "shared" along with the legendary armor. Please tell me this is a bug.

No bug. It was said multiple times that "remembering" skins wasn't a thing yet, they might add that feature some time in the future. After all, those aren't templates but loadouts - since they don't "remember" anything else for that matter once an item or a skill has been removed from the loadout, why would you expect it to remember skin choices of all things?

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@Ashantara.8731 said:

@susana.7814 said:price reasonable yet?

Nope. Still waiting on a sale myself.Considering that the times of bigger sale cuts are long gone (can be seen when comparing % of sale cuts on black friday/game birthday events and seeing how they get smaller and smaller with each year), the pricing will be atrocious even when on sale. And it will still be a price for a system with a partially broken and incomplete functionality.Sadly, at this point i do not believe that Anet cares about it at all.

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@susana.7814 said:price reasonable yet?

No. The price is far from reasonable.

Two build template expansions/slots (300 gems each) and two build storage expansions/slots (500 gems each) cost in total 1600 gems.

For half the price (800 gems) you can buy a new character slot that already has the above slots and much more and with the large amount of leveling scrolls I have and the skyscale it is now very easy and fast to collect the hero points for the elite-specializations.

If I ever would need more loadout/storage slots for a specific role, I would use one of my several other characters for this role.

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@Zok.4956 said:

@susana.7814 said:price reasonable yet?

No. The price is far from reasonable.

Two build template expansions/slots (300 gems each) and two build storage expansions/slots (500 gems each) cost in total 1600 gems.

For half the price (800 gems) you can buy a new character slot that already has the above slots and much more and with the large amount of leveling scrolls I have and the skyscale it is now very easy and fast to collect the hero points for the elite-specializations.

If I ever would need more loadout/storage slots for a specific role, I would use one of my several other characters for this role.

Watch them triple the character slot prices for every slot past the 9th.

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@Fueki.4753 said:

@Zok.4956 said:

@susana.7814 said:price reasonable yet?

No. The price is far from reasonable.

Two build template expansions/slots (300 gems each) and two build storage expansions/slots (500 gems each) cost in total 1600 gems.

For half the price (800 gems) you can buy a new character slot that already has the above slots and much more and with the large amount of leveling scrolls I have and the skyscale it is now very easy and fast to collect the hero points for the elite-specializations.

If I ever would need more loadout/storage slots for a specific role, I would use one of my several other characters for this role.

Watch them triple the character slot prices for every slot past the 9th.

Don't give them such ideas, please. B)

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@"dbill.7483" said:I supposed I should have posted this in the "things you can't do with your awesome legendary stuff" thread.You can count me as another legendary owner that finds the new build stuff useless.

The appearance thing is a problem, but for legendary armor moreso than weapons. There's a balance update coming apparently so legendary gear still has its uses if you don't want to keep swapping stats via Mystic Forge.

At their inception the biggest non-pricing complaint I had was the lack of build auto-switching per mode and the legendary weapon stat reset confusion on unequip.

Right now the bugfix priority is likely on revenant legends and utility skills.


As far as pricing goes, I highly doubt I will spend anything on build storage at this point since I have made due with storing templates externally as well as a few in personal guild message of the day. I don't think the accountants over at NCsoft will cave and make "build templates" hotkeys account-wide purchases either. I purchased a few equipment templates but for me to go full on with them I think there needs to be a discount for over 5 purchased at a time (see everything that is sold in multiples, there's typically 20-30% discount for 5,10,15 at a time) since it will end up quite pricey.

It's far cheaper just to have a dedicated PvE/PvE and PvP character as it's typically power/condi (low ramp condi such as weaver/firebrand is typically favored) and a few classes chosen for support (mainly guardian but also renegade, chrono in PvE only, druid in PvE, heal tempest, heal scourge, scrapper , etc).

If I had to guess the likely course of action once Lunar New Year passes and the next living Story's influx of returning players on Jan 28 is over there might be an uninspired template "bundle" of some sort that probably won't be worth it. If selling a bundle on the webstore (via Digital River rather than for gems) is the only way for a reasonable bundle, so be it. Just don't insult everyone by including boosters you get from Black Lion Chests and dailies or transmutation charges that WvW/PvP players have hundreds or thousands of.

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in August 2019 I took a break from the game to start tackling my games backlog. Around the time I was going to reinstall and try the new saga stuff, I found out arc templates were going to be disabled. I'm not a huge fan of the new UI and lack of save button (all changes are inherently saved? Oof). As I understand, updating the UI is a pain, so I'd like to propose a compromise: I'd love to just export and import builds via chat links like GW1. Traits+Skills+Gear all in a single link. This shouldn't require further UI code. Or let us use Arc again. It's not as elegant, it's not synced with the servers, it's not able to handle ranger pets or rev legends, but it scales for those that need it.

Before I stopped playing I was on track to creating a tank and DPS build per raid boss on a single character, with some extra builds for bosses/roles that reward certain traits or stat combinations. I won't pretend to know the GW2 codebase, but a gear chat link need not bind to specific pieces of gear and may just say "Helmet is ascended tier X stats with Y rune and Z infusion" of which legendary gear should be able to stat/rune/infusion swap to accommodate. Then if there is no legendary gear equipped, the gear locker would attempt to use which ever ascended gear matches the stats. If nothing could match exactly... unequip the slot or leave it as is. Maybe that last fallback case would need some logic or a preference flag. Again, I don't know the specifics but whatever the solution is, it should let legendary gear scale beyond the limitations of the current UI, which are incredibly constraining.

Want to talk money? From launch to PoF release I spent roughly $300 on gems and bought both expansions. Not a lot, certainly not a Whale or Dolphin. When I started raiding in March 2018 up until I quit raiding/playing in August 2019, I spent roughly $950. That's about $55 per month, 3-5x most sub model MMOs. But I was playing the content I liked, in the game I liked, with people I liked, in the builds I liked. Now, even if I come back to GW2, I can't spend money on anything in good faith because Anet has tarnished my trust.

In my game journeys abroad, I tried Destiny 2. The more I played, the more I came to hate inventory management within Destiny 2 and I nearly quit. But then I found Destiny Item Manager (DIM), a community supported, open source, and officially encouraged (since 2016) tool for letting players

AND it lets users
. The template tools even let the user identify stat goals (I want X vitality, Y toughness) and it will attempt to autofill your gear from your bank to meet those goals. It's essentially like GW2Efficiency + move privileges via API + Arc templates + more. Free. From a browser. Multi monitor and tablet/phone users rejoice!

I don't even like Destiny 2 nearly as much as Guild Wars 2, but I can only praise Bungie for their community support while I watch Anet burn bridges left and right with their biggest fans.

widekittenHappy ?

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@"Awesumness.1823" said:

In my game journeys abroad, I tried Destiny 2. The more I played, the more I came to hate inventory management within Destiny 2 and I nearly quit. But then I found Destiny Item Manager (DIM), a community supported, open source, and officially encouraged (since 2016) tool for letting players

AND it lets users
. The template tools even let the user identify stat goals (I want X vitality, Y toughness) and it will attempt to autofill your gear from your bank to meet those goals. It's essentially like GW2Efficiency + move privileges via API + Arc templates + more. Free. From a browser. Multi monitor and tablet/phone users rejoice!

My god, that sounds awesome!I've always thought it would be better if it were actual templates that check for the item in your inventory/bank. If it's not there, it gives a short warning that some items could not be found and will not be loaded. Could be extended to a web based solution with the API like your example. The possibilities!

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