Who would win in a fight? The Risen or The Awakened?

[ugrakarma.9416]

@"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:If we compile the lore of Edge of Destiny, Arah explorable, Orrian History Scrolls, and the Mursaat Lore Tablets, then it seems to me that Zhaitan moved to Central Tyria and Orr after Kralkatorrik went to sleep.

The order of events of the previous Dragonrise as I believe it to be is:

• The "elder races" hoard magic, making them elites above all other races. Source
• At roughly 10,000 BE: The Elder Dragons wake up and begin devastating the elder races, wiping out the Giganticus Lupicus. (Source: Timeline)
• Five of the elder races unite in an alliance (jotun, dwarves, mursaat, seers, Forgotten) and began sharing magic and spells with each other. However, the mursaat kept some of their magic to themselves. Source 1 Source 2
• During this time, Arah already existed, and Kralkatorrik's domain stretched from Crystal Desert to Orr and probably Blood Legion Homelands (e.g., half of Central Tyria). At some point, Kralkatorrik was fought and injured, which would not heal even while in hibernation. Source 1, Source 2, Source 3: EoD
• While the jotun, seers, and dwarves were dealing with their own issues (such as dwarves fighting multiple Great Destroyers), the mursaat and Forgotten attempted a joint assault on Zhaitan at an unknown location. This ended up failing. Source 1, Source 2
• After the attempt to kill Zhaitan failed, the mursaat fled into a half-world (Source: Arah); the Forgotten performed a ritual on Glint at Orr at roughly 1769 BE which removed many of her pre-purification memories (Source 1: Arah, Source 2, Source 3; the seers created the Bloodstone (Source: Arah); Zhaitan moves to Orr; Glint betrays Kralkatorrik after Kralkatorrik goes into hibernation (Source: EoD).
• Some point between 1769 BE and 786 BE, the Six Gods arrive on the world at the "stones of Arah" and brings humanity with them. They then apparently take humanity elsewhere. (Source: Orrian History Scrolls; Timeline)
• 786 BE: The first of humanity sails to Cantha, landing on northern Shing Jea/Canthan Mainland. Decades later, Kurzicks and Luxons show up individually from across water as well. Source

this "script" is worth a amazing prequel.

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

@"Tyson.5160" said:So at the time she consumed Joko’s magic she has the energy that she received from Mordremoth(Zhaitan) as an egg and the energy that she received from Balthazar. Which is probably a much high quantity then the magic she received from Joko, just based on the visuals alone. Then she also has the magic she absorbed during the Glint trials as well. Best case scenario Joko’s magic constitutes for 1/4 of her magic, buts it’s probably less.

If Anet does take that immortality ability away, I do hope they have a better explanation then magic diluting, because I think that will just confuse a lot of people. That or some other entity attempts to unbind her immortality magic, just as she did to Joko.

Aurene got less than a quarter of magic from Mordremoth - possibly less than 1/8th. When Mordremoth died, most of his magic split into four directions. One direction did go north towards Tarir and the egg, but this same magic went further to the Maguuma Bloodstone expanding it far more than Zhaitan's death did. With Balthazar, she only took away enough magic in the eye of the massive-Vabbi-consuming storm to keep us from being hobbled - Kralkatorrik took way more than half of his power, and Balthazar's might wasn't on par to a proper god or Elder Dragon.

By the time of Season 4, she seems on par to a typical dragon champion like Tequatl or Claw of Jormag to me. Which would be enough for a full helping of "lich magic" to have an effect, compared to having the full might of an Elder Dragon. Presuming Aurene had eaten all of Kralkatorrik's magic, that would most of the Maguuma Bloodstone and at least a skimming of Primordus' and Jormag's (via Balthazar), a portion of Zhaitan (at least a third), and just under a quarter of Mordremoth's magic, and of course all of Kralkatorrik's.

[Antycypator.9874]

I would vouch for awakened, because they're more intelligent and they can be re-awakened. Risen are more like a simple zombies, probably the best for swarming an area and running in massive numbers. But... is it possible to turn Risen into Awakened? Creating Risen is a ritual, creating Awakened is more like a quick spell and can be done everywhere (just need someone who can do this).

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

@Antycypator.9874 said:Creating Risen is a ritual, creating Awakened is more like a quick spell and can be done everywhere (just need someone who can do this).I think you got that backwards. Risen can be made anywhere and, in the presence of a dragon champion, can occur before slain people even hit the ground (per Sea of Sorrows novel when Port Stalwart was attacked, it mentions how people don't even hit the ground before their skin turns gray and decayed and they turn on their enemies - and the dragon champion, Captain Whiting, was far off shore from this).

Awakened, however, cannot be made on the fly. We never see such, at least.

[Aaron Ansari.1604]

@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

Awakened, however, cannot be made on the fly. We never see such, at least.

Joko more or less does that in the Fractal... although that still doesn't come close to matching the scale on which the Risen previously did it.

[NorthernRedStar.3054]

@Aaron Ansari.1604 said:

@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

Awakened, however, cannot be made on the fly. We never see such, at least.

Joko more or less does that in the Fractal... although that still doesn't come close to matching the scale on which the Risen previously did it.

When Joko's prominently the only one capable of doing it, I don't think it counts as 'on the fly'. Either way, there's much conflicting information on the subject, in different mediums and even in-game.

To me, the most powerful risen definitely strike out as more potent than the most powerful awakened. I suppose the answer to the question relies on what we count as 'minions'. Dragon champions? Simple army fodder?